From drew@kinglear.cs.Colorado.EDU  Ukn Jul  4 21:57:03 1993
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: ease of implementation, optional features, etc.
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jul 1993 15:47:32 CDT."
             <9307042047.AA16903@rei.com> 
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1993 19:55:46 -0600
From: Drew Eckhardt <drew@kinglear.cs.Colorado.EDU>
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Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


As far as design :

People are forgetting one thing : application notes.  Most vendors 
have application notes that give a working sample implementation using
their chip.  For instance, National Semi's AN-479 has full schematics,
a materials list, and a PAL program (for the PAL that does shared memory
arbiting and address decode) for an ISA 8390 board (AUI / thinnet, 
jumper selectable).  If you were to go with a shared memory 8390 
implementation you could take this design, and write a new PAL program....

In any case, the analog side (what scares the non-EE's among us)
with the pulse transformers, etc would allready be done for you.

 
From andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  5 03:32:39 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 09:16:12 +0200
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re:  ease of implementation, optional features, etc.
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


> As far as design :
> 
> People are forgetting one thing : application notes.  Most vendors 
> have application notes that give a working sample implementation using
> their chip.  For instance, National Semi's AN-479 has full schematics,
> a materials list, and a PAL program (for the PAL that does shared memory
> arbiting and address decode) for an ISA 8390 board (AUI / thinnet, 
> jumper selectable).  If you were to go with a shared memory 8390 
> implementation you could take this design, and write a new PAL program....

Right. We should go this way. Why invest the wheel again and again ?

> In any case, the analog side (what scares the non-EE's among us)
> with the pulse transformers, etc would allready be done for you.

Otherwise this would be the most complicated part :-)

Andy

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From adyer@zarniwoop  Ukn Jul  6 21:45:09 1993
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 09:53 PDT
From: adyer@zarniwoop (Andrew Dyer)
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: ease of implementation, optional features, etc.
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To all that are worried about the analog side of Ethernet, it's really
not a problem - You just follow the App note like the man says.  Most
controllers provide an AUI (15 pin style) port.  It is relatively trivial
to add on-board Twisted-pair or Thinnet connections.  Some controllers like the
Nat Semi AT?LANTIC provide the twisted pair xcvr in the chip so you get
twisted-pair and AUI.  Coax is extra.  Also most PC ethernet controllers
are reasonable simple to hook to a 3051 if you are willing to ignore having
all the regisers in exactly the place you would expect them.

As for whoever said the solution could be under $30 on the motherboard
- NOT!  most reasonable chips are $20-$30 in 1000s quantity - how are
we going to get the whole shot in $30?

I will volunteer to design the ethernet I/F, although it will be
tough to coordinate from CA.  I would propose a AUI/coax system 
with an optional twisted pair interface unless the ethernet of choice 
has twisted pair on-board.  I like the nat semi AT/LANTIC since it is
based on the venerable 8390 and has twited pair already.

Whaddaya think?



 
From caret@pyramid.com  Ukn Jul  7 00:56:24 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9307070455.AA15062@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: Re: ease of implementation, optional features, etc.
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 21:55:27 PDT
In-Reply-To: <m0oCtml-00039LC@zarniwoop.uucp>; from "Andrew Dyer" at Jul 5, 93 9:53 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> As for whoever said the solution could be under $30 on the motherboard
> - NOT!  most reasonable chips are $20-$30 in 1000s quantity - how are
> we going to get the whole shot in $30?

Will it be less than $120?  (The cost of a WD8003e)

> I will volunteer to design the ethernet I/F, although it will be
> tough to coordinate from CA.

Great.  I live near San Jose.  If you are close, we could get together.
I can provide access to some CAD software if you need it.

On the subject of CAD, there is that chip design CAD software 'ocean',
that apparently has schematic capture.  Does anyone know if that could
be used to do schematics of a board rather than a chip?

>  .......  I would propose a AUI/coax system 
> with an optional twisted pair interface unless the ethernet of choice 
> has twisted pair on-board.  I like the nat semi AT/LANTIC since it is
> based on the venerable 8390 and has twited pair already.

My pick is for a AUI/coax.  AUI to twisted transcevers can be had cheap.

-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845

 
From andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  7 06:33:19 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 12:25:25 +0200
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	id AA12609; Wed, 7 Jul 93 12:25:25 +0200
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re:  ease of implementation, optional features, etc.
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


> To all that are worried about the analog side of Ethernet, it's really
> not a problem - You just follow the App note like the man says.  Most
> controllers provide an AUI (15 pin style) port.  It is relatively trivial
> to add on-board Twisted-pair or Thinnet connections.  Some controllers like the
> Nat Semi AT?LANTIC provide the twisted pair xcvr in the chip so you get
> twisted-pair and AUI.  Coax is extra.  Also most PC ethernet controllers
> are reasonable simple to hook to a 3051 if you are willing to ignore having
> all the regisers in exactly the place you would expect them.

I don't mind where the registers are as long I can access them :-)

> As for whoever said the solution could be under $30 on the motherboard
> - NOT!  most reasonable chips are $20-$30 in 1000s quantity - how are
> we going to get the whole shot in $30?

Sorry, I've said that bullshit. Of course, you're right. It will be
more expensive, but we have still the option to let the sockets empty.

> I will volunteer to design the ethernet I/F, although it will be
> tough to coordinate from CA.  I would propose a AUI/coax system 
> with an optional twisted pair interface unless the ethernet of choice 
> has twisted pair on-board.  I like the nat semi AT/LANTIC since it is
> based on the venerable 8390 and has twited pair already.

For me even coax-only would be ok, but AUI doesn't cost much more,
primarily the 15pin sub-D connector.

Andy



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Waldorf Electronics GmbH, R&D Department
c/o Andreas Busse
Neustrasse 9-12
D-5481 Waldorf
Phone:  +49 (0)2636-80294
Fax:    +49 (0)2636-80188
e-mail: andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de
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