From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 29 10:43:31 1991
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Date:         Wed, 29 May 91 09:09:37 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese System 6.07 for Mac
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

   I just got the Chinese System 6.07 from the d e v e l o p magazine
CD issue 6.  I install it on a MacPlus with 4M RAM.  Everything looks very
stable.  Supposedly it should works all all Mac upto MacIIfx.  It seems
eventually we have a system which can totally replace the English
System in our daily usage --- at least before System 7.  The best thing
for me is I can used HyperCard now (with CH6.03 I have to stick with
HyperCard 1.21).

   Here is some small questions:

(1) THINK C  4.0.2 seems sometime have problem.  I just upgrade it to 4.0.5
    Hopefully it will work.  Anyone else has problem with it?
(2) In the old Chinese System (maybe 4.*) you can choose a character and press
    "?"   then its pinyin and the first "bi-hua" of that character will be
    shown.  It seems we cannot do this now with the new System.  Is this
    function changed to other key, or it is no longer possible to do it?
(3) In HyperCard (e.g. I use HyperFTP with MacTCP to ftp file from mainframe
    to Mac), the password function seems conflict with Chinese character.
    For anonymous ftp it is fine since password can be anything, but I always
    have trouble for real password (I guess there might be a set_font function
    in HyperTalk that will solve this problem.  Anyone know how to do it?)
(4) I would like to fiddle more with the ResEdit on the Chinese System.  For
    example, can I change the startup mode as English rather than Chinese
    (I mean the Mac starts up with the right upper corner icon as diamond
    rather than circle)?  Can I redefine the toggle key between mode (Control_
    Spacebar) as something else (since Control_Spacebar conflict with the
    definition in HyperCard, where it means "hide menubar")?
(5) To Ed Lai:  do you have a newer version of cihui input for the new system?
    How about the "Chinese Dictionary" for the HGB?
(6) There is *Beijing* 9 point font in this System.  But the chinese character
    seems to be still scaled font.  Is it the case?
(7) Now the big question:  where can I get other larger size font (such as
    song 48, li 48)?
(8) Can one edit a new ziku fbit file (not to mix with the original
    16L1 and 16L2) to put the customized characters?  How can one use
    (call up in input) these user-define characters?

    In the same issue of d e v e l o p magazine, there is also a big
HyperCard "book" (12Mb) talking about the script manager in Macintosh
International System design.  It might be a good source for one to
start doing more with the Chinese System.

    MSWord can partially work (Choose font as *Beijing* rather than Beijing).
But it is cannot handle linebreak properly (you have to use space to help
it do it properly).  It still cannot display HuaXiaWenZhai properly (that
means you still have to use QRead).

    I also install the English System 7 on the same hard disk with the
Ch6.07, and use blesser to switch between the two.  But blesser1.1 need to be
fixed up a bit for it to recognize the System7 System file.  In System 6, the
System file type is "ZSYS", in 7 it is called "zsys".  So make a copy of
blesser, use REdit or other file editor to edit CODE resource ID=1, searching
for ASCII string "ZSYS" and change it to "zsys". (You are NOT able to do this
by ResEdit2.1 --- there is no "Find" ability there!).  Right now I can
switching between System7 and CH6.07 without any problem.

    Now let us start waiting for Chinese System 7.

		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu Wed May 29 11:31:18 1991
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Date: Wed, 29 May 91 10:00:00 EDT
From: wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu ( Huangxin Wang)
Posted-Date: Wed, 29 May 91 10:00:00 EDT
Message-Id: <9105291400.AA18729@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu>
To: yjj@sirius.ctr.columbia.edu
Subject: Re:  Chinese System 6.07 for Mac
Status: RO

yes.  Basically just as what you can do with English system.

But for best result, you should have at least 2M RAM to run HyperCard 2.0
(since it allow you to mixing fonts, thus very convinient).

I have already use MacWrite to compile Chinese address book.

		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Jun  3 23:14:48 1991
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Date:         Mon, 3 Jun 91 22:08:06 cdt
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      TaiwanTalk for Macintosh
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I recently received a copy of TaiwanTalk for Macintosh (system 4.3/finder
6.0).  I'm a happy user and recommend it absolutely.

I'm looking for fonts for TaiwanTalk.  Shareware/Freeware preferred.

I just got this and know virtually nothing about it.  Can any TaiwanTalk 4.3
veteran user out there give any information, anything you feel I should
know, any utilities you think I should have?  Certainly some programmers
out there must have written something specifically for TaiwanTalk.  HELP!!!

Thank you in advance.

charles@calshp.cals.wisc.edu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jun  5 14:22:42 1991
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Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 91 14:21:00 EST
Reply-To: TAO%OPUS%MCOIARC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: TAO%OPUS%MCOIARC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      questions on atob
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hello, fellow netter,

I have some questions on Chinese computing on Mac to ask.  This area seems to
be a neglected topic, this may be partly because of the difficulties for
hacking on macs.  ONE NOTE: PLEASE BEAR WITH MY NAIVENESS, I AM JUST A BEGINNER
EVEN ON USING WHAT'S AVAILABLE.

My questions are:

1. Is there any ported utilities that will do convertion from ascii to binary,
and vice versa, on mac?  This question is mainly concerns about the HKCU's
article in Chinese, which is in an ascii coded form.

2. How to convert the coding from big5 to GB on mac?  This could be translated
as the availability of utilities and how to use tham.  One suggestion to go
with this is that* IT WOULD BE BETTER TO STANDARDIZE THE CODING AND COMPRESSING
SCHEMES FOR MAC UTILITIES*. My experience is that stuffit followed by binhex is
a very reliable combination.

Thanks in advance for any responses that will come to me.

Tao Tao
Department of Microbiology
Medical College of Ohio

p.s.
I sent one posting to the list about two weeks ago, and got three answers. The
first two were the help files for CND-CM.  In the third one, from a netter in
France (forgaive me for accidentally deleting the saved mail, no detailed
information is available due to this), two applications on Chinese word
proccessors were mentioned, one was from the apple affiliate in Beijing.  This
might be one to check out.  Thanks for the responses.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jun 12 18:41:58 1991
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Date:         Wed, 12 Jun 1991 18:38:02 EDT
Reply-To: Xing Li <xli%MCS.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Xing Li <xli%MCS.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      MacHanzi - viewing and printing Chinese WITHOUT using a Chinese
              Mac OS
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hi,

Recently, I wrote a tiny Mac application called MacHanzi.  The
following is a short description.  I hope somebody can help me
put it in an anonymous ftp side.  Drop me a line, if you want
to try it.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This is MacHanzi, a freeware application for viewing and printing
Chinese articles WITHOUT using a Mac Chinese Operating System.
It is useful for those who subscribe to "Hua Xia Wen Zhai"
(ccman-l\\@uga.cc.uga.edu) and "Chinese Articles from HKU"
(car-request\\@ahkcus.org).

The features are:

*  Supports both GB format (simplified Chinese character used in
    mainland China) and BIG5 format (traditional Chinese character
    used in Taiwan and Hong Kong) WITHOUT using a Mac Chinese OS.

*  The Chinese articles can be viewed and printed either horizontally
    (from left to right, top to bottom - the modern way) or vertically
    (from top to bottom,  right to left - the traditional way).

*  The minimum hardware requirement is a Mac Plus with 1 Mb RAM
    (512e should work, but has not been tested).

*  It is multifinder friendly and can be used under System 7.0.

*  The application itself is small (about 10 K). Two font libraries
    are obtained from anonymous ftp sides. (cclib.16 [GB font] is
    from 128.123.1.14 inside pub/chinese/ChTex-1.1.tar.Z and
    chinese.16 [BIG5 font] is from 192.55.187.25 at src/pc/HKU.
    I think that these two libraries are in the public domain.
    If not, please delete them and down load them yourself.

Enjoy.

Xing Li

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Jun 13 21:56:17 1991
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Date:         Thu, 13 Jun 1991 21:33:23 EDT
Reply-To: Weihe Guan <INR%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Weihe Guan <INR%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      The Guidelines for Using MacHanzi, from Xing Li
Comments: To: CND Chinese Magazine Network <ccman-l@UGA.BITNET>,
              Chinese Computing Network <ccnet-l@UGA.BITNET>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 17:05:54 EDT
From: xli@mcs.drexel.edu (Xing Li)

                 The Guidelines for Using MacHanzi
                 =================================

Basic:

* MacHanzi runs on any Macintosh (MacPlus and above).

* The Chinese Macintosh Operation System is NOT required.

* Put the font libraries in the same folder with the MacHanzi application,
  retain the font names (cclib.16 for the GB format and chinese.16 for the
  BIG5 format). If you were able to download MacHanzi from the anonymous
  ftp site and successfully uncompress the MacHanzi package, everything
  should be in the correct place.

* On opening MacHanzi, a standard Mac file list should appear, choose the
  Chinese Article you want to read. If strange characters appear on the screen,
  go to the Ziku menu [Guess, what Ziku stands for (-:], and choose the correct
  format. GB is the correct choice for the readers of "Hua Xia Wen Zhia",
  while BIG5 is the correct choice for the readers of "Chinese Articles
  from HKU".

* When you finish reading the current page, go to the Page menu and select
  Next, control-F is its short cut. This can also be done by clicking the
  mouse button.

* You can use the Page menu to choose the display size and the display format
  [horizontal - the modern way or vertical - the traditional way].

* There remains some bugs for updating the window, if the window becomes empty,
  you can  go to the Page menu and select First (control-0).  The first page
  of the current article will show on the screen.

* If you want to print the article, go to the File menu.  You can use the
  Page Setup and Print items.

* When the current article is finished, you can go to the File menu,
  Close the article and Open another one, or select Quit to go to the Finder.


Advanced:

* The Edit menu is currently disabled.  I think most of the users who use
  Chinese in the United States just want to be able to view and print Chinese
  articles.  If someone wants to type in and edit Chinese, he/she should
  switch to the Mac Chinese System. Apple has pretty good international
  systems.

* The Ziku menu is designed as follows: If only cclib.16 is found in the
  current folder, GB is enabled and BIG5 is disabled.  If only chinese.16 is
  found in the current folder, BIG5 is enabled and GB is disabled.  If both are
  present in the current folder, GB is the default choice, however, you can
  switch to the BIG5 format. Therefore, if you want to use GB and BIG5 at the
  same time, duplicate MacHanzi application (only 10 K), put it into another
  folder and move one of the font libraries into that folder. Then you can
  use multifinder to launch two MacHanzi applications. This can serve as
  a good previewer, if you are using HanziConverter 1.5.

* One of the features of MacHanzi is that it is not 'What You See Is What
  You Get'.  I hate to do this, but I think the current display technology
  is not satisfactory for Chinese text. I always feel that the
  Chinese characters printed on paper are too big, even if they are the
  same size as that displayed on the computer screen. Hence, when
  you want to print, choose 75% or 50%, the page will be reformatted and
  fill the whole page.


The MacHanzi is now available from two anonymous ftp sites.

ahkcus.org   [192.55.187.25] at /src/Mac
-rw-r--r--  1 yaom     source     672042 Jun 13 03:35 MacHanzi.hqx
-rw-r--r--  1 yaom     source       1356 Jun 13 03:34 MacHanzi.readme

crl.nmsu.edu [128.123.1.14]  at /pub/chinese
-rw-rw-r--  1 1145     other        1317 Jun 13 04:14 MacHanzi.README
-rw-rw-r--  1 1145     other      672042 Jun 13 04:15 MacHanzi.hqx

Please send comments about MacHanzi to:

Xing Li

xli\@king.mcs.drexel.edu
xing\@cbis.ece.drexel.edu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Jun 14 18:20:04 1991
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Date:         Fri, 14 Jun 1991 17:01:45 cdt
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      English device under Mac Chinese OS ?
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Can I use English device drivers and control panel devices under Chinese
Traditional 6.06?  In other words, do Chinese OS's devices (such as Mouse,
Appleshare LaswerWriter) English devices differ only in the words displayed?

Another question:  What is the "Localization Folder" for?

Thank you!!

charles@calshp.cals.wisc.edu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Jun 14 19:09:36 1991
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Date:         Fri, 14 Jun 1991 17:46:31 cdt
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Use Sys 4.3's Taipei under 6.06 for Mac?
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I just received Sys 6.06 Traditional Chinese OS for Mac and it's much better
than Sys 4.3 except one point:  I don't like its italized *Taipei* font
and prefer Sys 4.3's square Taipei font.  Is there anyway to make Sys 6.06 to
display Taipei in a square-ish way, or is it possible to make Sys 6.06 read
Sys 4.3's Taipei font?

HELP !!!  (or I'll have to keep two systems)

charles@calshp.cals.wisc.edu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Jun 25 13:31:14 1991
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Date:         Sun, 23 Jun 1991 20:23:37 cdt
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Chinese OS for Macintosh (questions & comments)
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I recently received Traditional ChineseTalk for Macintosh 6.06
and got a few questions and comments:

1)  What is the "Localization Folder" for?  How to use it?
2)  Is it possible to to make KaoHsiung the system font instead of
    Taipei?
3)  Where can I get more Chinese fonts: bitmap, ATM,TrueType or PostScript font?
4)  Is there a keyboard equivalent of the switching symbol on menu bar?
4)  Now this is a comment:  ChineseTalk for Macintosh is so easy to set
    up and use.  The resolution is good and even the original little Mac has a
    pretty high resolution.  I've tried Eten for PC, and it's a lot worse to
    use.  A few highlights of ChineseTalk for Mac:

1)  A symbol on Menu bar which you can click to switch b/t Chinese and
English.  The symbol is active even if you are in dialog.
2)  All Mac programs work in ChineseTalk.  No need of any specific TSR.
3)  A keyboard of symbols can be set to stay on screen so you can just
click to select symbols (such as phonetic symbols).  No need to stick
little stamps to your keyboard.
4)  Since the system is Chinese, one does not need to know a letter of
English to use it.

I believe Apple should push its international systems more and should do
all it can to make its international OS free on demand.

Charles C. Hsieh

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jun 26 03:44:23 1991
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Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1991 13:40:16 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Chinese OS for Macintosh (questions & comments)
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Just part of the answer for Charles C. Hsieh's question:

Keyboard equivalent for switch Chinese to English is "Control-Space",
this is the same in mainland system and Taiwan system.
In HyperCard, this conflicts with the "Hide menubar" key shortcut.
To hide menubar, it is "Control-Shift-Space".

About the default font, I believe it's possible to change it
with ResEdit.  Look at the System file resources.   Another way
is if you feel the Chinese font slow down the window updating in
Finder, you might want to replace the Finder by the corresponding
version in English (after all, Finder is a program).  In that case
you cannot see the file name in Chinese.  But the DA name in Chinese
still display OK (they are taking care of by System rather than Finder).

		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jun 26 09:04:45 1991
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Date:         Wed, 26 Jun 1991 14:05:00 +0200
Reply-To: WENG%SELDC52.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: WENG%SELDC52.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Short evaluation of TurboWriter for Mac
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

For you who use word processors on the Mac with the Chinese OS's.
Here is a short evaluation of TurboWriter 1.5 for the Mac for use on the
Taiwan operative system (encoded in BIG5).  (There is also a version for
the Beijing system, but not a version that will work with both).

Company : TransPac Software, 4340 Stevens Creek Blvd, Suite 203, San Jose,
Ca 95129.
Phone (408)984-8475, Fax (408) 984-6303

Price:  $395.  If you have the OS you might get a cheaper price.  They do
not accept credit cards.

Copy protection: None (In Hong Kong it is sold with a "dongle").

The package comes on 10 double sided 800kb disks. 6 disks fonts, Installer,
Utilities, TurboWriter and  Chinese Talk.  Included is also a Chinese
Manual and a shorter version in English.

The Installer script is rather awkward written and you do not have the
option to customize the installation, accept Apple Share.  However, it will
create a new folder, called ChineseTalk-T, rather than installing on an
existing system.  The system it installs is Taiwan 6.06.  The installing
use all 10 disks.  It would have been better if one installation installed
the system and one the fonts.  There is no need to install the TurboWriter.
The fonts are encoded in BIG5 are Medium Kai, Medium Hei and Ming Light.
They are in 48 points.  Kai and Ming are in three parts and take up each
more than 1.5MB.  Hei is smaller (in two parts) and might not contain all
the characters in the BIG5 set. There is also a Taibei 12 and 48 point font
in the set. Installed the package takes about 6.5MB.

To run TurboWriter it is recommended to have 512kb, but it runs faster and
smoother on more application heap.
Apart from the normal function expected in a w-p TurboWriter supports
vertical writing (from right to left) in two different formats.  It also
support columns.  As a nice feature it also have the option to
transliterate the characters besides or over the characters.  In the Taiwan
version the automatic transliteration is in Bopomofo, which manually can be
changed to whatever transliteration you prefer, and in the Beijing version
it is pinyin.
There is no extra input method, but the system naturally support your
favorite input like Ed Lai's Cihui.
TurboWriter can import and export textfiles only (ASCII).  If you are owner
of the Chinese PageMaker, there is also a filter that makes it possible to
import formatted TurboWriter documents into that program.    TurboWriter is
script sensitive, but there is no way to over rule this, which is really
bad.
The menus can be in English or Chinese, set in preferences, which are
placed in the Apple menu(sic).
TurboWriter does not handle footnotes.
TurboWriter has footer and header, divided horizontally in three parts,
left, middle and right, where you may paste whatever you want, or use some
default options, but you can not write directly in the header and footer.
TurboWriter handles Chinese punctuation correctly in word wrapping.

Overall TurboWriter is a nice w-p even though rather unsophisticated.  I
see it greatest use together with Chinese PageMaker if you are doing a
Chinese magazine or newspaper.  As an academic tool it has little or no
use.  For that purpose, in my view, Nisus is the only w-p to handle real
complicated word processing in Chinese.
Lund, Sweden, June 26th, 1991

Dr. Peter Bryder
Lund University
Department of History of Religions
Allhelgona Kyrkogata 8
S-223 62  Lund
Sweden
Fax:+4646104426
e-mail:weng@gemini.ldc.lu.se

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Jul 11 19:53:22 1991
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Date:         Thu, 11 Jul 1991 16:26:19 -0700
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Cihui and Chinese dictionary stack on Mac for ftp
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu, zhongwen@nada.kth.se
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I have uploaded a number of files to ahkcus.org for interested
parties to ftp. They are Mac specific and can be found in the
src/Mac directory.

The cihui files are the cihui (pinyin phrase) input method files
for Mac Chinese OS 6.0x. The version is 1.8 and this is not a new
version. The only change is that the documentation file format
has been changed from MacWrite into TeachText.

The other files start the name with chidict, they are two HyperCard
Chinese  dictionary stacks. The file has been compressed in an
application. Launch  the file after debinhex to extract the actual
stack. It requires Mac Chinese OS 6.0x.

This is really a frame work for a dictionary. It set up index to
every character in GB (chidict.simp.35.cpt.hqx) or Big5
(chidict.simp.35.cpt.hqx) code set, but  it has no content such as
the meaning of the word. People who want to make a dictionary
themselves can fill that in.

Still there are a lot of useful information in the dictionary.
The GB to PinYin table that has been used by several people and
attributed to me can be easily generated from the stack (in fact
it was generated from an earlier version of the stack). Something
like Big5 to Pinyin, Big5/GB to telegraph code, Big5 to TsangChi,
Big5 to 3 corner code, GB to Big5 can likewise be easily generated
from the stack.

However its strong point is not as a database, but as a very fluid
navigation in the ocean of information. There must be over 100000
links, so you can get from any character to any character with
only a few mouse click. For example, from a character it takes
one click to get to the list of homonyms, another click to pick
out which character from the list to go to. So it takes 2 click
to get to a homonyms, 2 clicks to get to another character with
the same radical etc.

The dictonary stacks are huge, about 1.5M for the GB version and
over 3M for the Big5 versions (and this excludes 4M of sound files
that I do not have the right to distribute). Since you need to run
HyperCard on top of the Chinese system to use it, it would be doubtful
to be able to run it in 2M. I think 4M RAM is necessary. So only try
to run it if you have a lot of RAM and hard disk space.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From @cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu:CCNET-L@UGA.BITNET Thu May 24 09:19:01 1990
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Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 20:44:37 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject:      24 pts font for Mac
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga>
Status: RO

Here is my original message about the Chinese font on Ricky Yeung's site.
(june.cs.washington.edu,  in /pub/yeung), and Ricky's reply.

         Is the font (Beijing24) can be down load and used on the Chinese OS on
         Macintosh?   I've got them work on UNIX, are there a way to convert
         them to be used on Mac?

Yes, they are just bitmaps.  Unfortunately there is no such utility around.

-Ricky

Is anyone on the net aware of such utility exits?  or is there a place
where I can obtain the 24 pts Chinese font for Mac?

                Huangxin Wang of University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jul 17 01:19:36 1991
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Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1991 13:15:00 H
Reply-To: GANKW%NUSDISCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GANKW%NUSDISCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Englist-to-Chinese input method on MAC ?
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hello everyone,

Can anyone help in the following questions:

=============================================
I wonder if there is a English-Chinese Replacement input method for the Mac
Chinese OS 6.0.X ?
(ie the user types in a English term and it gets translated into Chinese and
 gets input into text).

If there isn't, then are there any English to Chinese translation stacks
developed on HyperCard ?
( I understand that there is already two HyperCard Chinese dictionary stacks
  made available by Edmund K. Lai).
===================================================

Gan Kok Wee

Thanks in advance.
Department of Information Systems and Computer Science
National University of Singapore
Bitnet address: gankw@nusdiscs.bitnet

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jul 17 10:54:54 1991
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Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1991 07:53:08 -0700
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      re: Englist-to-Chinese input method on MAC ?
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

If it is really language translation, we all know how difficult that would
be.

If it is done on a word by word base, then in a sense it is no different
from pinyin input. Think of the English word as a macro that generate
Chinese character string. Then Cihui 1.8 can be used to do the job provided
there is a English to Chinese word phrase dictionary.

However, the input can be very very funny. If you want to input the greeting
Ni Hao, the direct word to word English translation is 'you good', so that
is what you type in, and this will be very unnatural for an English speaking
person.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Aug 12 05:27:56 1991
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Date:         Mon, 12 Aug 1991 02:25:00 PDT
Reply-To: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      questions about Chinese word processing
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Chinese word processing questions:

I currently use the Simplified Hanzi System 6.0.7 on Macintosh
computers to write academic papers in English with Chinese
characters included. For word processing I use Microsoft Word
4.0, which behaves relatively well with Hanzi (except for
problems wrapping strings of Chinese characters around the end
of a line).  For bibliography I use EndNote; it does not
behave very well.

Problems:
1)  entry with Hanzi is slow since it only recognizes
characters (zi) and not words (ci)
2)  characters could look better (16x16 dots is wavy even when
smoothed by a LaserWriter Plus)
3)  the most serious problem with EndNote is its write routine
which changes non-breaking spaces to  ordinary spaces, turning
any character encoded including hex 'CA' to garbage, e.g. the
character corresponding to CAD4 becomes the garbage
corresponding to 20D4.

Questions:  Does anyone have solutions to the above problems, i.e.
1)  better Chinese systems (Mac or IBM) that work with a current
generation English word processer (e.g. with footnotes, fonts,
macros, WYSIWYG etc.--as opposed to Tianma)?  Ci entry?
2)  better Chinese fonts for Macs?
3)  compatible bibliography programs?
4)  news about a Hanzi System 7.0?
5)  is it possible to translate Tianma files to the Mac Hanzi
system?
6)  is it possible to translate between Macintosh Hanzi
Simplified 6.0.7 and the traditional characters in the Macintosh
Taiwan 6.0.x?

Thanks,
Roger Hart, UCLA
IZZYCY5@OAC.UCLA.EDU

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Oct 29 14:21:22 1990
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Date:         Mon, 29 Oct 90 11:16:44 -0800
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: More about Chinese OS 6.03
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

> Also Ed Lai's Chinese dictionary will also be in trouble.

You cannot run the dictionary stack 0.3 in 6.03, that is one reason I hate
the new system. Anyway, I am close to converting it over, I just want to see
if more changes is need for HyperCard 2.0.

For those who don't know what it is, it is a HyperCard stack dictionary of
all the characters in either GB or Big-5. I am looking at the issues of
how you can make an electronic dictionary easier to use. However the stack
will be missing what is consider the gut of a dictionary, i.e. the meaning
of a word or its translation.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Aug 28 14:18:13 1991
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Date:         Wed, 28 Aug 1991 14:17:03 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Install new script into an existing system
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

With Macintosh Scipt Manager, it is said it's possible to install several
script into a same system.  Has anyone ever tried that?  The specific
situations are:

	(1)  Install Taiwan System into Mainland System, thus one can
use both Simplified and Traditional Chinese;

	(2)  Install Chinese script into regular US System (rather than using
the Ch6.07 system file from Apple), in that case, Finder will appear in
English (in geneva font), the System font will be still in Chicago rather
in *Beijing* font.  But the Chinese is still available by a Ctl-Space.
This is neccesary since we are here in the US, and we don't want to confuse
our American collegues with the Chinese menus or dialog.  And switching
between Enlish System and Chinese System by Blesser and rebooting is quite
a nuisance.

	BTW, if you just want to let the Finder to appear in the regular
English way (Geneva font, which will display faster than *Beijing* font),
you can simply replace the Finder by the corresponding one in the English
system.  But the systemFont and dialogs, etc, are still in *Beijing*

		Huangxin Wang ~{Muh+vN~}, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Aug 28 14:56:44 1991
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Date:         Wed, 28 Aug 1991 14:58:17 -0400
Reply-To: Jing Guo <guo%CONVEX.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Jing Guo <guo%CONVEX.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re:  Install new script into an existing system
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

>With Macintosh Scipt Manager, it is said it's possible to install
>several script into a same system.

Are you talking about System 7.0?  My understanding is that under
system 7, one can make a small change to the US system file with
ResEdit, then drag different KCHR resources into the system suitcase.
As the result, you have a script menu next to the application menu.

I have tried that with a couple of KCHR resources(just minor variations
from the standard Mac keyboard layout).  Will it work with Chinese or
Kanji system as well?  Maybe somebody out there know more about Sys-7
can give us an answer?

Jing

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Sep  8 22:39:43 1991
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Date:         Sun, 8 Sep 1991 22:37:29 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Install Chinese Script on English
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

The answer to my question about how to add in Chinese script into English
System (and still leave the Finder and System Font alone) is (thanks
to SCHMORA@YALEVM.YCC.Yale.Edu):

First install a Chinese system on you disk, and then use the English
system disks to update that Chinese system, then that system will
appear in English and all the alert boxes will be in English. In the
upper right corner a diamod will show and when you click on it it will
turn in to the Chinese symbol. You can then enter in Chinese. For
Chinese input copy Ed Lai's Cihui off the CD rom, it is by far the best
input utility.

I think the same principle can be used to install Mainland Chinese Script,
Taiwan Script into a English System.

		Huangxin Wang ~{Muh+vN~}, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Sep  9 22:07:07 1991
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Date:         Mon, 9 Sep 1991 22:05:06 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese Script, Nisus, etc
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Here is just an update about what I said in my last two postings on CCNET.

(1)  Put Chinese Script into English System:  Now it works great.  My Mac
will looks indentical to the English System (no special Apple characters
being treated as Chinese characters, etc.  All the dialog is in English)
except there is a small script icon on upper left corner, which
allow you to switch between several scripts system (so you can put mainland,
Tainwan, Japan, or a little bit of Arabian...  all into the same English
system).  The last one installed will be the default system and Finder.

The crucial point is you should do installation twice, if the second
installation System version is the same as the system on the hard disk,
it will keep the script resources on the that system when it install the new
one.  Basically the installer treat the script similar to DA or fonts
in the system.  When it update the system, it will try to keep these resource
intact.

When you switch to Chinese script, you can use Ed Lai's cihui input to
input Chinese.  So far it is agreed this is the best method.  What
amazes me is its learning ability.   It can guess, learn and remember
you input pinyin to make several characters into a cizu.

(2)  About my second question about Nisus, thank to LaoWeng, who points
out that this is a feature, not a bug.  Text font in Nisus is script
dependent.  If certain part of text is in *Beijing* in Chinese script,
you cannot directly change it to other font which is not part of the
Chinese script.  You you can force it to change by holding down the
Shift key.

Hope this information is useful for someone.


		Huangxin Wang ~{Muh+vN~}, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Sep 10 05:43:03 1991
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Date:         Tue, 10 Sep 1991 02:29:00 PDT
Reply-To: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      questions on Mac databases and upgrades
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Three separate questions:

1)  I am thinking about upgrading an SE.  Has anyone had compatibility
problems with any of the 030 accelerators?? Should I get the Apple SE/30
logic board upgrade (at twice the price)?  I use TA 6.0.6 and Nisus (and
hopefully a database soon).  And is there any chance of an accelerator not
being compatible with future Apple Chinese systems?

2)  I am still looking for a database. I have tried FilemakerPro and it
is compatible with TA 6.0.6, but I really need a relational database.  Any
suggestions?

3)  Are there *any* bibliography databases that are compatible with TA 6.0?
Japanese bibliography programs?  ProCite II?

Thank you for your suggestions,

Roger Hart
UCLA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Sep 14 22:51:07 1991
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Date:         Sat, 14 Sep 1991 21:46:35 cdt
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Use Geneva in Chinese OS for Macintosh
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I don't seem to be able to use Geneva, and other installed English fonts, in
Chinese Taiwan 6.06.  All I can use the English subset of Chinese font such
as Taipei.  Is it a general incompatibility problem, or did I do something
wrong.  In either, can anyone tell me how to fix it?

charles c. hsieh

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Sep 29 02:06:07 1991
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Date:         Sun, 29 Sep 1991 00:36:13 CDT
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      CH 6.0.7 and TrueType & ATM
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

The combined English-Chinese Mac OS 6.0.7 supports Adobe Type Manager.  So
all the Type One PS fonts are usable under CH 6.0.7.

However, TrueType init doesn't seem to like the Chinese system.

Anybody have other observations?

Cheers!

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct  4 04:07:37 1991
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Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 1991 01:03:00 PDT
Reply-To: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      question about speed of Stylewriter with Chinese
Comments: To: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I was about to go out to buy myself a Stylewriter when I noticed a warning
penned in by a vendor that stated that the Stylewriter took **5 minutes** to
print out a single page in Korean.

Does anyone have an estimate of how long it takes a Stylewriter to print
with the Chinese systems?  We use CHI 6.0.7, TA 6.0.6, Nisus, and Word on an SE
and a Plus, both with 4MB memory.

Thanks for your help,
Roger Hart

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct  4 10:42:07 1991
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Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 1991 10:33:33 EDT
Reply-To: Qiru Zhou <qzhou%MCS.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Qiru Zhou <qzhou%MCS.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re. question about speed of Stylewriter with Chinese
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

The printing speed for Chinese documents or other bitmap documents is
not just the matter of printer speed. It related to your CPU speed to
process the document you want to print and the software efficiency. You
need to convert the internal code of the document into a font bitmap
one by one, in the worst case, then send this bitmap to the printer.
the transmission speed is about 1M bit/sec. for Appletalk. For a 300dpi
bitmap, you can think about how long you need to send a page. If your
printer is networked (I am not sure if Stylewriter can be networked),
the speed will be slower, depend on the traffic on the net. I use a
Laserwriter II NTX (the top speed PS laser from Apple) and Dr. Xing
Li's MacHanzi to print Hua2 Xia4 Wen2 Zhai1, I got printing speed about
7-10 minutes per page! (BTW, that software is a pure bitmap convewrsion)
If you use PostScript printing, which can build a font lib. for your
document(s), then the computer needs not to send font bitmap for every
char. Then the printing speed can significantly up. I printed the same
document as above but use Dr. J.B. Wang's chtex and a DA called "Laser
Status", the speed is about 5-10 min. for the first page and 1-2 min.
for rest of them, depending on how many diff. Chinese char. in the doc.
If you have a printer with build in Chinese fonts, I think the speed
will near Roman language doc. printing. There are these kind of printers
for IBM PC and some mini's. I did not hear any of these for Apple. But
you can do your self by using a LaserWriter II NTX, it has a SCSI port
to let user to hook up a harddrive for fonts. I don't think StyleWriter
has this feature. Therefore, use StyleWriter to print Chinese doc. could
be very slow. I will expect it about 10-20 min. per page for CCCMAN doc.



Qiru Zhou
Dept. of ECE
Drexel University
Philadelphia Pennsylvania
USA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct  4 12:44:09 1991
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Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 1991 12:37:31 EDT
Reply-To: Qiru Zhou <qzhou%MCS.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Qiru Zhou <qzhou%MCS.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re. question about speed of Stylewriter with Chinese-2
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Wang Huangxin of U. of Penn suggest that you can speed up Chinese text
printing by turn off background printing on Mac. I think this could
significantly speed up the printing speed. He claimed by using his QRead,
you can have the speed about 1-2 min. per page for HXWZ.


Qiru Zhou
Dept. of ECE
Drexel University
Philadelphia Pennsylvania
USA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct  4 18:02:00 1991
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Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 1991 18:02:48 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Another Chinese After Dark module
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

This After Dark module can run on any Macintosh, not necessary with Chinese OS,
but I find it most suitable to scroll the Chinese poems on the screen when
the Mac is idling (in that case you should run it on the Chinese system,
or on a system installed with Chinese --Beijing or Taipei --- Scripts.)

I just put it in the HXWZ ftp site (192.55.187.25).  Will be in
src/Mac directory.

Here is a short doc about this software:

                Scroll ----  AfterDark module for Macintosh

This is another After Dark module.  It slowly scrolls a text file on the
screen when the After Dark screen saver kick in.  I use it to display
Chinese poems (as in the accompany text file).  It is similar to the
"AD Random Pinyin" module, but this one a much more meaningful.

To use, just drop this module in the After Dark Files folder, then put
a text file name "poems" (without quote) on the top level of your disk.

The sample "peoms" file here contains mostly Tang and Song poems.
You can edit your own, for example, you can edit a "Chen-Yu" (idioms)
file, etc.

If you like it, send me a post card.

Huangxin Wang, Dept. of Physics, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Oct  8 09:41:35 1991
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Date:         Tue, 8 Oct 1991 09:34:30 EST
Reply-To: Pu Jieming <BPREISS%UDESVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     Resent-From: Pu Jieming <BPREISS@UDESVM>
Comments:     Originally-From: TAO%OPUS@MCOIARC.BITNET
From: Pu Jieming <BPREISS%UDESVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: help request
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
To answer your request on the CCnet, I am sending you the help files ftped from
ahkcus.org.  To make it work you need binhex to decode it, since only ascii
files could be sent through network safely.

Tao


Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 17:05:54 EDT
From: xli@mcs.drexel.edu (Xing Li)

                 The Guidelines for Using MacHanzi
                 =================================

Basic:

* MacHanzi runs on any Macintosh (MacPlus and above).

* The Chinese Macintosh Operation System is NOT required.

* Put the font libraries in the same folder with the MacHanzi application,
  retain the font names (cclib.16 for the GB format and chinese.16 for the
  BIG5 format). If you were able to download MacHanzi from the anonymous
  ftp site and successfully uncompress the MacHanzi package, everything
  should be in the correct place.

* On opening MacHanzi, a standard Mac file list should appear, choose the
  Chinese Article you want to read. If strange characters appear on the screen,
  go to the Ziku menu [Guess, what Ziku stands for (-:], and choose the correct
  format. GB is the correct choice for the readers of "Hua Xia Wen Zhia",
  while BIG5 is the correct choice for the readers of "Chinese Articles
  from HKU".

* When you finish reading the current page, go to the Page menu and select
  Next, control-F is its short cut. This can also be done by clicking the
  mouse button.

* You can use the Page menu to choose the display size and the display format
  [horizontal - the modern way or vertical - the traditional way].

* There remains some bugs for updating the window, if the window becomes empty,
  you can  go to the Page menu and select First (control-0).  The first page
  of the current article will show on the screen.

* If you want to print the article, go to the File menu.  You can use the
  Page Setup and Print items.

* When the current article is finished, you can go to the File menu,
  Close the article and Open another one, or select Quit to go to the Finder.


Advanced:

* The Edit menu is currently disabled.  I think most of the users who use
  Chinese in the United States just want to be able to view and print Chinese
  articles.  If someone wants to type in and edit Chinese, he/she should
  switch to the Mac Chinese System. Apple has pretty good international
  systems.

* The Ziku menu is designed as follows: If only cclib.16 is found in the
  current folder, GB is enabled and BIG5 is disabled.  If only chinese.16 is
  found in the current folder, BIG5 is enabled and GB is disabled.  If both are
  present in the current folder, GB is the default choice, however, you can
  switch to the BIG5 format. Therefore, if you want to use GB and BIG5 at the
  same time, duplicate MacHanzi application (only 10 K), put it into another
  folder and move one of the font libraries into that folder. Then you can
  use multifinder to launch two MacHanzi applications. This can serve as
  a good previewer, if you are using HanziConverter 1.5.

* One of the features of MacHanzi is that it is not 'What You See Is What
  You Get'.  I hate to do this, but I think the current display technology
  is not satisfactory for Chinese text. I always feel that the
  Chinese characters printed on paper are too big, even if they are the
  same size as that displayed on the computer screen. Hence, when
  you want to print, choose 75% or 50%, the page will be reformatted and
  fill the whole page.


The MacHanzi is now available from two anonymous ftp sites.

ahkcus.org   [192.55.187.25] at /src/Mac
-rw-r--r--  1 yaom     source     672042 Jun 13 03:35 MacHanzi.hqx
-rw-r--r--  1 yaom     source       1356 Jun 13 03:34 MacHanzi.readme

crl.nmsu.edu [128.123.1.14]  at /pub/chinese
-rw-rw-r--  1 1145     other        1317 Jun 13 04:14 MacHanzi.README
-rw-rw-r--  1 1145     other      672042 Jun 13 04:15 MacHanzi.hqx

Please send comments about MacHanzi to:

Xing Li

xli\@king.mcs.drexel.edu
xing\@cbis.ece.drexel.edu

            User Help File for Reading HXWZ on the Mac
            ==========================================

                    Compiled By: Jack Sun
                       GR4486@SIUCVMB
              Last Modification: June 17th, 1991.


                      TABLE OF CONTENTS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.  What do you need to read HXWZ files on the Mac
2.  Transferring HXWZ files to your Mac
3.  Reading/editing/printing
4.  APPENDIXES

A1.  Reading HXWZ files with Beijing 4.3 System
A2.  Decoding UUEcoded HXWZ files
A3.  Where to get the Chinese Operating System files
A4.  How to get the programs needed for decoding/converting the files
A5.  A sample session of reading HXWZ files
A6.  Acknowledgement
------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  What do you need: System Requirement
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  1.1.  A Macintosh Plus or above (Classic, SE, SE/30 ...) with at least
        2048k of RAM (chip memory capacity, not disk storage space).
  1.2.  Read and print: MacHanzi package;
  1.3.  Read/print/edit: ChineseTalk (The Chinese Operating System for the
        Mac)  "Beijing" version for GB files and "Taipei" version for Big5
        files.  Versions 6.0.x are required. Older versions like 4.3 can
        also be used with Clipboard Magician. (see Appendixes).
  1.4.  QRead 2.5, or Clipboard Magician 0.65, or MacWrite 4.x.
  1.5.  Programs "UUTool" or "Clipboard Magician" for decoding HXWZ
        files on the Mac; MacBinary for files conversion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.  Transferring HXWZ files to your computer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  2.1.  Transfer HXWZ files to your mainframe account

  On your Mainframe terminal, do the following (words inside <...>
  indicate command):

      <ftp 192.55.187.25> <Enter>, wait for "User" prompt;
      <ANONYMOUS> <Enter>, wait for password prompt.
       Type your Mainframe ID (userid), <Enter>
      <CD gb> <Enter>, change directories to GB file subdirectory.
      <CD cnd-cm> <Enter>, change directory to HXWZ.
      <LS> <Enter>, list the files.
      <BINARY> <Enter>, set the transfer mode to binary.
      <GET fn.ft fn.ft>, <Enter>, copy a file to your acct.
      <QUIT> <Enter>, end ftp session.

Note: 1. The first pair of file identifiers (fn.ft) are the remote file
name and file type, and they are case sensitive.  Therefore they have to
be EXACTLY the same with what you see on the file list.
2. Local file name file type are optional if the remote files have a
two-part identifier, such as README.TXT; 3. Make sure you have enough
space on your local minidisk when you want multiple files. 4. Type
HELP for available commands.

Note #2:  Use binary mode if you get files from /gb directory; use ascii
mode if you get files from /cnd-cm directory.  BIG5 files are in another
directory and there's a separated instruction there.  Files in /cnd-cm
are uuencoded therefore need to be uudecoded; files in /gb are not.
See related sections below.


2.2.  Transfer files from Mainframe to your Mac

2.2.1  If your Mac is connected DIRECTLY (not through phone line) to
    the Mainframe network, you may be able to get the files directly
    from the HXWZ site using MacTCP program.  If your Mac only has the
    local TCP capability, FTP the files from the Mainframe to your Mac,
    in binary mode.  The procedure is the same with 2.1.

2.2.2  If you have access to a DOS machine (IBM PC) that has the TCP
    program, AND your Mac is equipped with a High Density drive that can
    read DOS disks, you might want to FTP the file to the DOS disks first
    (either directly from HXWZ site or from local Mainframe), and then
    translate the files with AppleFileExchange.  To do so, follow these
    steps: (This would be much faster than through a modem)

      FTP the HXWZ files in binary mode to your 3.5 inch DOS disk;
      Open AppleFileExchange on your Mac;
      Select DOS-to-Mac translation;
      Select DEFAULT translation, deselect anything else;
      Select the file on the DOS disk and click TRANSLATE button.
      Use MacBinary to convert the file to readable form.

  Note: If MacBinery does not recognize the file, just change the
      TYPE to TEXT then it should be readable by TEXT editors.
      MacTool, ResEdit, DiskTop DA, DeskZap DA etc, all do the trick.

2.2.3  If you have to use a modem for transmission, it's up to you
    to decide the program suitable for your Mainframe connection.
    MacKermit, MicroPhone, Versaterm, RedRider etc. all have Kermit
    compatibility that the Mainframe uses to transfer files.
    Instructions are usally availabe at your local computing facilities.
.......................................................................


3.  Reading/Editing/Printing HXWZ files
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
3.1  Read/print with MacHanzi
  MacHanzi is a small programs with its own Ziku (dictioanry) file to
  read/print GB/BIG5 files without running a Chinese System.

     Open MacHanzi;
     Pull down OPEN from File menu;
     Open your HXWZ file;
     Click the mouse to read the next page;
     Print or close the file when you're done.

 Note: 1. You need only one of the Ziku files in your MacHanzi Folder:
 cclib.16 for GB files (simplifies characters) and chinese.16 for BIG5
 (traditional characters) files, depending on the source of your HXWZ
 files.  Remove the one that you don't need from the Folder.  2. Display
 size and vertical/horizontal orientation can be configured through
 their coresponding menu commands.  3. There are still bugs in screen
 refresh.  The best way to avoid screen blank-out is to do the
 configurations before you start reading a file.  If the screen goes
 blank (it happens), hold down command kay and press 0 should display
 the first page again.

3.2  Read/print HXWZ files with MacWrite 4.x.
  MacWrite 4.5/4.6 are capable of reading/printing Chinese files
  at default font size:

      Open MacWrite 4.x
      CLOSE the untitled window
      OPEN the HXWZ TEXT file
        (Click "Paragraph" button for cariage return prompt)
      Select the whole document (click at the very begining of the text,
        hold down the shift key, drag the scroll bar to the bottom of
        the text, click at the end of the text without releasing the
        shift key - this would "blacken" the whole thing)
      Select Beijing/Taipei font for the text

Note: The default font size is 12pt.  Don't attempt to change the size
- doing so would scrable the display.  The text can also be printed in
12pt without any editing.  Editing with MacWrite is not recommended.


3.3  Using QRead 2.5
  This Desk Accesory is a TEXT editor in nature.  It can edit/print
  files larger than 32k (most TEXT editors won't).

  To read/print a Chinese file, do this:

      Install the DA to your System file;
      Pull down QRead from <Apple> menu;
      Open the HXWZ file;
      If the display is not in Chinese, choose "Beijing/Taipei" font;
      Print the file if you want to.

Note:  QRead can read files larger than 32k.  However, it gives you
two options in case the file is large: truncate or "read only".
Select "read only" would not allow any editing (probably this is
just enough for most of us).  Truncate would cut the file to display
the first 32k of the file.

3.4  Using Clipboard Magician

  Clipboard Magician is a DA that can be used to view a Chinese
  file, and to "paste" the Chinese file to a TEXT editor.  It can also
  be used to read TEXT files within 32k limit, besides many other
  functions to manipulate the clipboard contents.

  To view/print a Chinese file, do this:

      Pull down Clipboard Magician from <Apple> menu;
      Click at the BLANK area at the left side panel;
         (to DESELECT TEXT/PICT whatever is in there)
      Double click at "Read TEXT files" on the main panel;
      Open your HXWZ file;Click at the main panel once;
      Hold down Option key and click at EDIT IT;
      Select Beijing/Taipei font as the default display font;
      View the first 32k of the file in Chinese.

Note: Clipboard Magician is a very powerful utility, naturally it is
also quite complicated.  If you don't feel very comfortable with it,
use QRead instead.

Note #2:  Both QRead and Clipboard Magician are Desk Accesory files.
You need Font/DA Mover to install them to the System file or Suitcase
to activate them.  You also need to put the Magic Wand file to the
System Folder in order to use Clipboard Magician.

.......................................................................
================   APPENDIXES   =================

A1.  Reading HXWZ files with Beijing 4.3 System
A2.  Decoding UUEcoded HXWZ files
A3.  Where to get the Chinese Operating System files
A4.  How to get the programs needed for decoding/converting the files
A5.  A sample session of reading HXWZ files
A6.  Acknowledgement


A1:  Reading HXWZ with Beijing 4.3 system
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Beijing 4.3 System can not be used directly for HXWZ files.  Convertion
  is needed for HXWZ files to be displayed on Beijing 4.3 environment.
  If you only have Beijing 4.x, you need the following convertion:

      Activate Clipboard Magician
      Select "Read TEXT file..."
      Open the HXWZ file
      Click on the main panel
      Double click at "HGB to SGB"
      Paste the clipboard content to a TEXT editor and save it.

*** Note: Clipboard Magician doesn't seem to like System version 4.x.
So you need to do the convertion when a newer System is running (6.x).
Clipboard Magician can convert files between Beijing 6.0 and Beijing 4.0
(SGB -> HGB for 4.0 to 6.0, HGB -> SGB for 6.0 to 4.0).


A2: Decoding UUEcoded HXWZ files
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This item only applies to those who FTP HXWZ files from the directory
/cnd-cm, instead of /gb/cnd-cm.  Files in /gb/cnd-cm are not UUEncoded,
therefore no UUDecoding is needed.  However, files in /cnd-cm directory
are copies from the ccman-l, and they need to be UUDecoded.

Note: All files received from ccman-l are uuencoded;  all files in
/cnd-cm are encded.  Files in this directory need to be transferred
in ASCII mode, not Binary mode.

 A2.1  UUdecoding on UNIX Mainframe
    If your Mainframe is Unix based, the best way to decode the files
    is to do it at the Mainframe stage. Uudecode is a built-in function
    on unix.  Command:

        <uudecode filename> <Enter>, this would do the job.

 A2.2  UUdecoding on the Mac
  This one should works for most of us.

      FTP the program "UUTools" from the HXWZ utility directory;
      Transfer the HXWZ files in ASCII mode from /cnd-cm to your Mac;
      Decode the files with UUTools.

  UUTool is VERY easy to use:

      Launch the program;
      Pull down "File" menu;
      Select "Decode...";
      Select source file and save output file.

  You can also do uudecoding with Clipboard Magician:

      Put "Magic Wand" file to your Chinese System Folder;
      Install "Alchemist" DA;
      Pull down <Apple> menu to activate "Clipboard Magician";
      Double-Click "Read TEXT file" in the main panel;
      Select the source HXWZ file;
      Click at the main panel;
      Double-Click "uudecode" in the main panel;
      Paste the clipboard content to a TEXT editor.

Note: 1.  The instruction file that comes with the Magician package has
more detailed information.  Please read the instruction file for
other operations.  2.  HXWZ files in gb/cnd-cm directory are in straight
GB format that can be read by TEXT editors.
.......................................................................

A3: Getting the Chinese Operating System for the Mac
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A3.1  ChineseTalk from D E V E L O P magazine.

      Phone orders (have your credit card ready):
      USA:             800-545-9364
      Other countries: 815-734-6309
      Fax orders:      815-734-4205

      AppleLink orders (credit card numbers ready)
      E-mail Address:  dev.subs@applelink.apple.com

Note: D E V E L O P magazine delivers the software on its CD.  You
will have to get hold of a CD drive to copy the files to your floppy.
The Magazine cost about $30 a year.  Issue #6 with the new versions
of ChineseTalk on CD can be purchased seperately.

A3.2  ChineseTalk from Pacific Rim company

  The System and a Chinese WP program TurboWriter can also be
  purchased from Pacific Rim company in package form.  They sell
  TurboWrtor with either Beijing or Taipei System.  Each package
  costs about $400.

      Phone: 1-800-745-0911

A3.3  ChineseTalk from Linguists Software

  They have it available for $100 (much cheaper for the second copy
  in case you want to have both version).

      P.O.Box 580
      Edmonds, WA 98020-0580
      (206)775-1130

A3.4 The last and probably the best way to get it is to get hold of
   a developer friend.  This would cost the least if you are fully
   aware of the related legal issues.
......................................................................

A4: Getting the programs for reading/decoding HXWZ files
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    All programs - Clipboard Magician, QRead, UUTools are available at
    the HXWZ utility directory for anonymous FTP.  Directory: src/mac.
    All programs are in ascii text form therefore need to be BinHex
    decoded.  Also they need to be "Unstuff"ed:

      <ftp 192.55.187.25>
      user  <anonymous>
      pass <your userid>
      <ascii>
      <get src/mac/QRead-25.hqx>

  After you have got this file in ASCII mode to your Mac:

      Open StuffIt 1.5
      Pull down "OTHER" menu, activate item "Decoding BinHex..."
      Select file QRead-25.hqx, click "Open" button
      Save the output file "QRead2.5.sit"
      Pull down "File" menu, activate item "Open Archive..."
      Select QRead-25.sit, click "Open" button
      Click QRead2.5 on the list window
      Click the "Unstuff" Icon
      Save the output file.

  Follow the same way for UUTool-12.hqx, Clipboard-Magician-065.hqx,
  MacBinary.hqx, and MacHanzi.hqx, etc.

Note: If you don't have StuffIt, you will have to find help from a
friend.  Leave me a note if you can't find help locally.
........................................................................

A5: A sample session of reading HXWZ files
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Here at SIU we use IBM 3081 Mainframe running VM/CMS
    system.  There are many IBM PS/2 connected in a TokenRing
    network in the lab with IBM TCP program, which is VERY fast
    in file transfer.  I use a SE/30 with FDHD and 5 meg of RAM.

Here's how I read the HXWZ files in this environment:

A5.1  From HXWZ site to SIU

      FTP 192.55.187.25
      User anonymous
      Pass gr4486@siucvmb
      cd gb
      cd cnd-cm
      ls
      binary
      get cm9104b.gb
      quit

A5.2  From CMS to DOS disk

      FTP 131.230.1.2
      User GR4486
      Pass (mypasswd)
      Acct (myacct)
      Binary
      get cm9104b.gb A:cm9104b.gb
      quit

A5.3  From DOS format to Mac format

      Open AFE; use default translation to translate the DOS file to my
      HD; Change the file Type to TEXT; Use MacWrite to read it.

.......................................................................

A6: Acknowledgement
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This Help file has been compiled with information from all over
the world.  The process has been: People send their pieces to Rupert,
and Rupert forward them to me, and I extract the information and
put it into the orderly manner. Credits ought to be given to the
following individuals:

Ming Yau So (mings@cs.uoregon.edu)
Petter Bryder Weng (Peter.Bryder@teol.lu.se)
Jiuhuai Lu (jiuhuai@eleazar.dartmouth.edu)
Ed Lai (lai@apple.com)
MINGHUI YAO (YAOM@ASUCPS)
Huangxin Wang (wang@penn.physics.edu)
Rupert Zhu (RZHU@Watmath.waterloo.edu)
Xing Li (xli@mcs.drexel.edu)

and many other individuals that I don't have their names handy.
Without their input this file would not have been possible even after
the long delay.

Clipboard Magician is Written by Ed Lai at Apple Computer Inc.,
dedicated to the fighters for democracy in China;
QRead is written by Huangxin Wang of University of Pennsylvania, who
has decided to sell his Mac Plus for some beer now.
UUTool is written by Bernie Wieser of Octavian Micro Development
Group.  MacHanzi is a contribution from Xing Li of Drexel.
All programs are free, but are copyrighted by their respective authors.

***********************************************************************
Disclaimer:  I have no connection with any of the companies
mentioned in this file.  As a Behavior Psychologist and MBA student,
I cannot live without my Mac, so I am happy to help other Chinese
Mac users to make their lives easier.

All opinions expressed in the software or the HXWZ magazine are
their authors or their publishers, not mine.

This file is meant to be updated to cover new information.  Please
feel free to send your feedback/comment to me for future revision.

Jack Sun <GR4486@SIUCVMB> or <GR4486@vmb.cdale.siu.edu>

***********************************************************************

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Oct  8 13:52:42 1991
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Date:         Tue, 8 Oct 1991 12:42:21 cdt
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      BoPoMoFo in Mac TA6.06
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I'm using Macintosh Taiwan system 6.06.

I got a question concerning BoPoMoFo input method.  Whenever I type a
BoPoMoFo phonetic symbol, even if it's the first one, Mac prints out a list
of words that have that particular symbol as first symbols.  It's very
annoying.  Can Mac print out the word list AFTER I have typed in the ENTIRE
sequence of phonetic symbols?

charles c. hsieh

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Oct  8 23:27:42 1991
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 Tue, 08 Oct 91 23:26:23 EDT
Date:         Tue, 8 Oct 1991 23:24:44 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Update Version of Scroll
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I just put the Update Version of After Dark module "Scroll" in the ahkcus.org
This new version can display randomly any file from a folder.  Also it
can display file of any size (so you can read Hua Xia Wen Zhai when you
Mac is idling!)  The sample folder come in the same file contains some
cool stuffs (poems, songs, articles) in Chinese.

Here is the short docs about it:

		Scroll ----  AfterDark module for Macintosh

This is another After Dark module.  It randomly choose a file from a
folder name "Scroll Files" (on top level of the disk) and scrolls its
text on the screen when the After Dark screen saver kick in.  I use it
to display Chinese poems (as in the accompany text files).  It is
similar to the "AD Random Pinyin" module, but this one a much more
meaningful.  It can display files of any size (not limited by
TextEdit).

To use, just drop this module in the After Dark Files folder, then put
a folder named "Scroll Files" (without quote) in the top level of your
disk.

The sample folder included here contains some interested Chinese poems or
articles (e.g., Tang, Song poems or songs)
You can edit your own text file and drop in the folder, for example,
you can edit a "Chen-Yu" (idioms) file, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------
If you like it, please share the Chinese poems or idioms you collect
with me.  Uuencode or binhex them and send them to me to:
---------------------------------------------------------------

wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu

Enjoy!

Huangxin Wang, Dept. of Physics, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Oct  9 12:11:50 1991
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Date:         Wed, 9 Oct 1991 09:03:46 -0700
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      re: BoPoMoFo in Mac TA6.06
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I think displaying all the options is a great feature, but if you don't like
it, just go the the control panel, select the BoPoMoFo input item, and turn
off the first check box.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Oct 19 01:15:18 1991
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Date:         Sat, 19 Oct 1991 00:06:13 CDT
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      TA 6.0.6 Font problem
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I am having a little problem with the TA6.0.6 system files: the System Font 48
part 1 quit loading.

I used to be able to see all the 48 pt fonts and get a real nice printout of
the "ReadMe" file with the System font.  Now only part 2 is able to load on
startup, so I can not print out the readme file in high quality any more.

Does anyone has any clue?

Thanks.

Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Oct 28 10:49:30 1991
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Date:         Mon, 28 Oct 1991 10:39:39 EST
Reply-To: Kang Sun <sun%CORWIN.ENG.YALE.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Kang Sun <sun%CORWIN.ENG.YALE.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese Script under System 7
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Greetings,

	I just upgraded my Mac+ to System 7 and the Chinese Mac Script
(v. 6.04) won't work under it. Has anyone had any better luck?

-- Kang Sun

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct 26 22:12:24 1990
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Date:         Fri, 26 Oct 90 22:03:37 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      New Chinese OS for Macintosh (6.03)
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I just obtained the new Chinese OS 6.03 for Mac from the CD disk come
with the July issue (3rd issue of this year) of D e v e l o p Magazine
($10).  I am fortunate enough to find a CD ROM to down load it.  As
everyone believes, update version always better, so my expectation for
it was very high.   But so far it gives me big disappointment.  I
really wish that I did something wrong in the installation.  Here is
what I encounter:

(1)  (a very serious one!)  New system use the GB code (the same as in
CCDOS), while the old system (CH-4.3) use shift GB, so ALL my text
files created by my old Chinese OS cannot be read!!!   They are all
displayed as junk characters, including the file names.

(2)  Very unstable:  Since it comes without an installation script for
the whole system (only for the AppleShare), I had to install it by copy
the system folder to my hard disk.  But somehow it just crash when I am
typing the word "he2" ("river"), no matter whether I am in finder, or
in MacWrite.  Such crash is reproducible.  It even worse that after it
crashes, the CDEV file "pinyin", "bihua", etc, are corrupted.  Next
time when I boot, I cannot type in any Chinese character!  The only way
to cure it is to reinstall the original CDEV files.  I try many
combinations and eventually track down the problem:  if I choose
"pinyin" cdev, and check the option (1) Automatic; (3) "Chuzhi" (Keep
the characters on bar); (4) Choose using number; (5) Beginner, (with these
options the system will rearrange the character which you just
character),  then it will always bomb when you type "he2 ".  Right now
I have to keep the minimal configuration and default options to avoid the
crash (and I'm not sure whether I have really avoided it or not).

(3)  The most wanted improvement for the old system is the character
font, not the input method (which is already easy enough and much
better than a lot of IBM PC package on the market, except, in my
personal point of view, TianMa).  However, this new Chinese OS has no
improvement on the character font.  We still get those large
charatcers, combine with the clumsy looking Chicago font for the
English characters.  I believe that it's possible to use ResEdit to set
the default English character for Beijing to something more beautiful.
But should the user really have to go through all these?   I think the
ideal Beijing font should be Chinese characters combined with New York
14 or other typewriter like font).   At least the application font
should be such.

	Now let me talk about something more encouraging before all
these problem washing away your enthusiasm:  In general, IF the new
system WON'T crash, it has quite some improvements still comparing with
the old system:  (1)  Input is faster, since you can turn on a 64K
cache for character picking.  (2) the bar for picking characters is
very neat, with hierachical menu and tear off keyboard, which is really
helpful for "Bi3hua4" input (or when you mixing pinyin with Bihua
input).  (3)  To improve the input speed a little bit, now you can
group input; also single click (rather than double) to pick a
charatcer.  (4)  I can run MultiFinder, and if it won't crash, I
might consider to totally replace it for the regular English system
(6.05).

	Still it is in Macintosh way --- you don't have a manual (and
you don't need one to use).  I look up and down in the CD disk, and
indeed there are no documents related to this Chinese OS (there is all
the European language system, as well as 12 disk Taiwan system with
Kai-xu and song-ti fonts.  For some reason, there is no Korean  system
on the disk).  I supposed the systems themselves should be FREE (if
Apple should charge for it, it would not be just $10).  Actually it can
be ftp from the AppleLink ftp site, but I just don't know where is such
site (anyone knows?)  Also as it's a MACINTOSH system mean that you can
use a lot of Mac softwares without writing a specific word processor or
graphics program for Chinese.  (BTW, the top level word processor for
Chinese or other foreign language system is Nisus.  MSWord won't be
work properly to display chinese character, but so far I just use
MacWrite).

	Last week I had a chance to see a lot of Chinee word processor
demos at a far east language processing conference at Penn (thank Long
Zhihua!) I am surprised that Mac OS is in such a low key ---- almost
everything is on IBM PC, wth regular price around $200 (e.g.
BrushWriter for IBM: full version $700, student reduce version $80).
And I am also surprised to find that Mac is much better in the
character picking input method, --- for example, Mac is very tolerant,
you can mix pinyin and bihua input.  There is another class of word
processors which use a lot of Macro definition (like "jttqhh" to stand
for "jin-tian-tian-qi-hen-hao"), I think it's only good for fooling
around for demo (some list price $299).   Of course Mac can also do
this kind of macro (like in cihui input method by Ed Lai).  But the
best input method, I think, is TianMa, which does not use character
picking in inputting, --- the major difference is that you don't need
to keep your eye one the character bar to pick your characters, thus it
won't interrupt the user's flow of thinking.  You just keep typing in
pinyin and the program will convert it to Chinese for you (by context
or grammar).   Of course right now Mac OS is NOT a word processor, so
it's not fair to compare it with TianMa, but I think development effort
should be in this direction, and I see that Mac Chinese OS is a very
good platform for doing this.

	And now come back to the problem of the Chinese system 6.03:
Does anyone write a utility to convert the old GB code (shift GB) to
the new one?  Is there an easy way to convert my chinese file created
on the old system?  I look at the Apple File Exchange Utility, but
there is nothing for this purpose.  Also, for text file, it might be
easy to convert, but what about text in HyperCard?  (I think the
convenient way is to write it as a FKey to convert a certain selection
of text).

	Something is very obviously wrong --- it just should not be
this way, but it did happen to me.  Has anyone out there use the new
system?  Have you run into these problems and how to resolve them?

		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct 26 22:13:27 1990
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 Fri, 26 Oct 90 21:58:58 EDT
Date:         Sat, 27 Oct 90 02:57:00 +0100
Reply-To: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung%NADA.KTH.SE@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung%NADA.KTH.SE@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: New Chinese OS for Macintosh (6.03)
Comments: To: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics@UPENN.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Fri,
              26 Oct 90 21:34:56 EDT. <9010270129.AA18309@nada.kth.se>
Status: RO

As Far as I know the latest to be released system software for
both Fanti (Taiwan) and Jianti (P.R.of China) is 6.0.5 I also hear
that 6.0.7 is almost finished. The great thing with 6.0.5 is the use
of the new scriptmanager that alows you to use several scriptsystems at
the same time and just toggle between for instance Japanese Korean
Fanti and Jianti by either a click of the mouse or cmd-spacebar. I have
now installed a system with terh resources for JApanese Jianti Fanti
and Swedish ( i.e that particular keyboard configuration that of course
will allow you to type any roman based script ((except you'll need a
particular font for Czech and Vietnamese :-)) and I guess Arabic, Hebrew
and Greek could be rolled in aswell)

The Chinese systems with all large fonts loaded eats 3.5 to 4.0 meg
of RAM 4.5 with Japanese but it is SOO fantastic to at last have the
BIG5 and GB and JIS alongside each others.

If there is an interest I'll post a description of he resources needed
to 'blend' them together.

With HyperCard 2.0 Nisus 3.01 and Filemaker Pro life is getting to be
quite tolerable these days!



mrfung

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar 28 18:53:36 1991
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 Thu, 28 Mar 91 18:11:48 EST
Date:         Thu, 28 Mar 91 15:07:33 PST
Reply-To: pings%EE.UBC.CA@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: pings%EE.UBC.CA@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Re: ftp sites and etc.
Comments: To: XIAOMIN@USCVM.ee.ubc.ca
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  <91Mar28.162520est.23253@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca>; from
              "XIAOMIN@USCVM" at Mar 28, 91 4:25 pm
Status: RO

This is a reply to Xiaomin, but maybe some of you on the net are also
interested.

>
> Any idea about MaCintosh side? thanks
>

There is a package called HanziTerm2.0 which is included in the
tarfile chinese.tar.Z availabe in ftp site ftphost.cac.washington.
edu [128.95.112.1]. I haven't tried the package yet, so I wont be
able to say anything more. Have fun.

Pingnan

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Sep 21 01:34:10 1991
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Date:         Sat, 21 Sep 1991 01:32:15 -0400
Reply-To: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      flashcard program
Comments: To: Tony Lim <lin@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au>
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I have uploaded KAPIAN, the shareware Chinese character
flashcard program, to ahkcus.org:incoming.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Nov 12 11:24:11 1991
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Date:         Tue, 12 Nov 1991 01:24:00 PST
Reply-To: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Avoiding Mac Chinese system crashes
Comments: To: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

After several months of occasional crashes and losses of Chinese input
capability with CHI 6.0.7 and TAI 6.0.6 (especially under multifinder),
HeapTool seems to have solved the problem.

HeapTool is shareware ($13.50) available on America Online and presum-
ably Sumex.  (HeapFixer did not seem to solve the problem.)  I have set it at
240 (prefering to give up a little memory rather than risk crashes).

Roger Hart
UCLA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Nov 14 00:53:42 1991
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Date:         Wed, 13 Nov 1991 21:51:00 PST
Reply-To: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <IZZYCY5%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      HeapTool prevents Mac Chinese crashes (2)
Comments: To: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I had become accustomed to occasional crashes, assuming that it was the
unavoidable result of juggling Nisus, Word, EndNote, TinCan, etc. in a
Chinese system under Multifinder.  There were two kinds of problems which
I think were due to heap problems:

1)  A loss of the capability to input Chinese in Multifinder (the bar to select
characters would not appear) after typing alot of Chinese characters.

2)  Chinese system (either TAI or CHI 6.0.x) crashes that seemed related to
the amount of characters input or the complexity of the work (e.g. changing
programs in Multifinder too often).  Closing Word.often crashed the system.

Since I installed HeapTool over a week ago, neither of our Macs has
crashed.

Getting HeapTool:  I downloaded from America Online, but you must first
get their communications software and a password.  AOL is incredibly easy
and signup is free with the ad from MacUser.  It is probably also available
from sumex-aim.stanford.edu.  If it would help I could forward instructions
on how to ftp files that was posted on MAC-L@YALEVM today.

Roger Hart
UCLA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar  7 04:18:16 1991
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Date:         Thu, 7 Mar 91 10:01:00 N
Reply-To: MBFYS_NU%HNYKUN51.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: MBFYS_NU%HNYKUN51.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Chinese OS 6.0.3's problem on MAC LC and Classic
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hi everybody,
I have got a copy of Chinese OS 6.0.3(Bei3jing1) for my
new MAC Classic. I tried to install the Chinese OS on it.
The problem I have had is that some of the Chinese characters
come in messy order, i.e., it is no longer in PinYin order,
for instance, if I type PinYin 'ji1', I will get
jie, jin, jing, ji and so on.
I guess it is so because new MAC Classic and LC require
6.0.7 OS. Thus the question is which version Chinese OS runs
on these new machines.
Another question is if there is any good Chinese inputer like
Chinese wordstar, BYX for Machintosh.
If no, can we run CCDOS, Chinese WordStar and BYX on
MAC with SoftPC?
Any information and suggestion is welcome.
Hong

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar  7 10:10:39 1991
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Date:         Thu, 7 Mar 91 10:09:23 EST
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re:  Chinese OS 6.0.3's problem on MAC LC and Classic
Comments: To: MBFYS_NU%HNYKUN51.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: cc: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

For the the pinyin order, you might try type in 'ji1 ' if you want to
exclude jie or jing, etc.

Chinese OS 6.05 is available on issue 4 of D e v e l o p magazine.

Nisus on Mac is supposedly the standard wordprocessor for international
system.  The one that design specially for Chinese might be called
TurboWrite.  Ask Pacific Rim 415 697 0911

		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Mar  8 00:18:00 1991
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Date:         Thu, 7 Mar 91 23:08:20 CST
Reply-To: Sun Zengxian <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Sun Zengxian <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese OS 6.0.3 on Classic and LC ...
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Re: Ji1 gives jie, jin ...
Try a space after the tone.  It probably will list all the ji1's.

My BIG question: Can we find some larger size Beijing fonts for 6.0.3?  I like
this version much better than 4.3.  Unfortunately I could throw 4.3 away since
I need the 24pt Beijing for high quality printing of 12pt Beijing on the IW.
(Or on the HP printers.  They would print very decent output if you have 24pt
font available.)

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Mar 25 18:07:50 1991
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Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 91 17:10:11 EST
Reply-To: Xing Li <xing%ECE.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Xing Li <xing%ECE.DREXEL.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      MacX font
Comments: To: brownvm.brown.edu!uga!ccnet-l@king.mcs.drexel.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Greetings,

	I have installed MacX 1.1 in a Mac Plus [the most powerful
Mac in our lab (-: ], it works great. The speed is better than I
thought, even the communication is performed through a local_talk
network.
	The only thing I cannot figure out is the font structure.
I would like to install more fonts into the MacX, especially the
2 byte fonts (i.e. Chinese).  Could anyone help me?  Thanks in
advance.

Xing (xing\@cbis.ece.drexel.edu)

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Mar 26 00:19:28 1991
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Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 91 00:09:21 EST
Reply-To: Morten Schlutter <SCHMORA%YALEVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Morten Schlutter <SCHMORA%YALEVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese and Japanese Mac OS
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I have recently been experimenting a good deal with the Chinese and
Japanese operating systems for the Macintosh and I thought others out
there might be interested in some the following.

On the latest developer CD from Apple ('Gorillas in the Disk') there are
versions of OS 6.07 for Japanese and simplified Chinese, and 6.05 for
traditional Chinese. The Japanese and simplified Chinese systems come
with only a few fonts and no large sizes, so one cannot get good laser
printer or HP DeskWriter output. However, Canon makes large fonts for th
e
Japanese system, and they may be available here in the US.

The traditional Chinese system comes with several large size fonts. I
use it with Ed Lai's excellent input utility Cihui 1.8 which allows inpu
t
in pinyin and which can be set to remember new words. Installing the
system is very straightforward. However, to use the Kai and Song fonts,
which are necessary even for decent ImageWriter output, one has to
install them with the installer disk from version 6.04 which is on an
earlier developer CD, I think the one called 'A Disk named Wanda.' Even
though the fonts are included on the new developer CD, they cannot be
installed into the system with the 6.05 installer disks!

I have found that it is possible to update one language system with
another language system while still keeping all the original resources.
This means that even though the traditional Chinese OS is 6.05 (and
therefore will not work on some of the new Macintoshes), one can update
it with the English 6.07 OS and it will work fine. It can also be update
d
with the Japanese OS 6.07, and then one can switch between Japanese and
Chinese input. (Except that the new 'inline' utility of the Japanese
system seems to crash with the Chinese system init on. But I couldn't
make it work anyway, does anyone know what it does?) Presumably one coul
d
further update the whole thing with Korean, Arabic or whatever, even
though it would take a lot of memory to run.

If you don't have access to the developer CDs, many foreign language
systems can be had from Linguist's Software (buy through MacConnection -
it is cheaper), but they may not have the latest versions. Does anyone
know of other sources?

I would be very interested in hearing about other people's experiences
with the Chinese and Japanese OSs. Does anyone know about the VJE input
method for the Japanese system? And how can Ed Lai's Cihui be modified
with new characters that one has created, or new pronunciations of
existing characters? Also, as far as I know, the only major wordprocesso
r
that works flawlessly with the Chinese and Japanese OSs is Nisus. Does
anyone know of other good wordprocessors that will work?

Morten

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Jun 25 11:25:41 1991
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Date:         Sat, 22 Jun 1991 17:25:00 N
Reply-To: MBFYS_NU%HNYKUN51.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: MBFYS_NU%HNYKUN51.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Chinese systems and RAM needed
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hi,
I have just installed Chinese 6.07(with help from Wang Huangxin)
on a Classic with 2M RAM. But the system was crashed when Quark
XPress was launched that works fine with Chinese 6.03. Later I found
this is because of shortage of the RAM. So I moved all unnecessary
DA's and fonts out. It works. Now I am thinking of upgrading
the RAM. Since the limit of RAM upgrading of MacClassic is 4MB
I have to consider the upcoming of Chinese 7.0. My major concern
is the amount of memory that Chinese TrueType fonts will take up
assuming that Chinese 7.0 will also come with TrueType Chinese
fonts. As English 7.0 already requires 2M RAM, will 4M RAM be
enough to run Chinese 7.0 and a relative application, such as
Quark XPress, and install an extra Chinese True Type font.
Does anybody have idea on this matter?
Thanx in advance.
Hong Zhou
Univ. of Nijmegen
The Netherlands

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Dec 12 10:17:18 1991
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Date:         Thu, 12 Dec 1991 10:21:09 EST
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%PENNMESS.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      RE: Chinese WP with Mac TAI or CHI OS, Nisus, Cihui, HeapTool
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

The most recent version of Nisus is 3.06.  It works very well with Chinese OS.
You can buy it from Paragon with Academic price (fax your ID) $99.

Nisus (Paragon Concept) 800-922-2993, 619-481-1477  (FAX)  (619)481-6154

		Huangxin Wang ~{Muh+vN~}, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Dec 12 21:52:17 1991
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Date:         Thu, 12 Dec 1991 15:26:00 PST
Reply-To: Xincun Huang <IZZYKD3%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Xincun Huang <IZZYKD3%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      More on MAC CHI and TAI OS, Nisus, APDA CD-ROMs
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

>What is the current version of Nisus? I once heard that the most-recent
>version of Nisus is not working with some version of the Mac Chinese
>Operating System. Is it still true now?

Nisus 3.0.6 is completely compatible with the Apple Chinese systems TAI
6.0.x and CHI 6.0.x.

>> 1)  It is not possible to switch easily between traditional and
>> simplified characters.  At ahkcus.org there is a conversion utility
>
>One should be able to install Mac Bei on top of Mac Tai. At least this
>is true in the case with version 6.0.5. Ed Lai also has CiHui input
>method for Mac Tai. In a combined system, you can switch back and
>forth with the simplified and complex characters. Simply choose the
>different fonts, and the input method will switch accordingly.

i)  I would be interested in learning how to do this.  I tried combining CHI
6.0.7 with TAI 6.0.3 without success.

ii)  But what I meant by switching is rather taking a document in simplified
characters and changing it to traditional, e.g. taking a test written in
simplified characters and printing it in traditional for a student that wants
traditional characters.  One can do this with the conversion utility HC 1.5,
but it is difficult.  But because I have to convert all the time, I have two
solutions, albeit clumsy ones:

a) MS Word:  For Word documents I wrote a Pascal program that removes
the text from the header and footer; after running the text through HC 1.5,
another Pascal program then replaces the text.  Because conversion is a
one-to-one substitution, all of the formatting is preserved properly.

b) Nisus:  Using the programming languages and GREP capabilities of
Nisus, I wrote a macro that finds all instances of the Chinese font, selects
them (noncontiguously), and then (using push and pop commands) copies
the selected text to the end of the file.  I can then copy the Chinese to
another file, use the conversion utility, and then paste the Chinese back into
the end of the file.  The second macro then finds the original locations of the
Chinese, and (using push and pop) pastes them back in.

Neither of these solutions are ideal, but I had alot of simplified documents
that I needed to convert to traditional.  If someone has better solutions I
would be interested in knowing about them.


>There exist 64 pt fonts for Mac Bei. I don't know their availability
>though. I thought it came with the Mac Bei, and apparently they
>didn't.

Does anyone know where these can be obtained??

>> 3)  Of course, TAI 6.0.6 will not run on the new LC-IIsi-Classic line.
>> Pacific Connections (800 745 0911) may be able to sell you the 6.0.7
>> version.
>
>You should be able to get them free of charge from the d e v e l o p
>magazine. They come with a compact disk in every issue. I don't know

Unfortunately the developer CD-ROM only has only had TAI 6.0.6 on it for
the last several months, althouth apparently TAI 6.0.7 is available in Hong
Kong.  And the font sets on 6.0.x (the less-frequently used characters) are
incomplete.  I suspect that TAI 6.0.7 may not appear on the CD-ROM, but I
have no idea about Apple plans in this regard, nor am clear I as to what
Apple policy is about this.

Can anyone add something here??  What about Chinese System 7 and font
sets?  When will they be available, and what will Apple's policy be??

(I suggested Pacific Rim Connections because I have gotten very good
advice from them; and several times when we have called them they have
talked us out of buying anything.)


Roger Hart
UCLA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Sep 27 03:31:56 1991
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Date:         Fri, 27 Sep 1991 09:06:08 +0200
Reply-To: Ken Chen <chen%RES.ENST.FR@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ken Chen <chen%RES.ENST.FR@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Mac Hypercard Stack for (Chinese) Poems
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I would like to release a Hypercard (1.2.5) stack for (chinese) poems
collection. Could anyone over the CCNET-L provide me a ftp site. The
stack takes about 30k (hqxed and sitted).

A brief description of this stack is inclused.

CHEN, Ken
Network Dept, ENST Paris (Paris Institute in Telecommunication)
----------------- doc follows: --------

-- Test under:
 System (French) F-6.0.7
 System (Tranditional Chinese) T-6.0.4
 Hypercard 1.2.5


-- Description:

	A Hypercard stack permitting the storage and some elementary
	manipulation of poems (the target poems are chinese classical
    poems).

	Information gathered about each poet/poem can be saved and
    read individually, this makes possible to
    get a rather complete  poem set with  distributed input  charge.

-- Organization: 4 fonds
	- First card, Info
	- Index
	- Poets
	- Poems

-- First card:
	- Access to index functions (Poet, Poem, Quotation, Free Input)
  	- Get Info card (This card)
   	- Sort (by poem, poet)
    - Font allows the setting of a new font. For a chinese
	  system 6.0.4., the default is *Taipei* (All the 8 chars are
      needed to identify the font).

-- Index cards
	- By poet:
		- List updates the list of poets. If locked, a click on the
		  name of a poet gives you the corresponding poet's card
		- Lock button allows the edition functions (copy, etc)
		- Random button gives you a poet randomly. (Exactely like
  		  you open a book)

	- By poem:
		Similar fileds and buttons.
   		A poem is identified by its Style, its Name and its First line.

	- Quotation:
		Search by fameus quotations

	- Free input:
		As its name indicates


-- Poets cards

	- List displays /hides the list fld, when showed, this fld contains
  	  updated list of poems by this poet. When locked, a click on
      a line gives you the corresponding poem.

	- each button shows/hides the corresponding fld, there is no mutual
      relations between these button/fld, i.e. you may have two
      superposed flds, if two buttons are active.

	- In button allows the Import of a card
      from  an  ASCII file created by out

	- Out button allows to save (Export) all the fields of a card into
	  an  ASCII file.

	- The meaning of each filed is given in sample card

-- Poems cards

	- A click on Poet name leads to the corresponding poet's card if
  	  the latter exists, otherwise, a new poet card is created.

	- The meaning of each filed is given in sample card

	- In, Out are similar to those of Poets

-- Bugs:

	With chinese system, sometimes, a space is appended to the first
    line of a poem when making indexation, such that the good card
    can not be found. The original text is not modified.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Dec 13 01:45:46 1991
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Date:         Fri, 13 Dec 1991 00:19:38 CST
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Chinese editing (Mac)
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

* Beijing 6.0.7 and Taipei 6.0.6 co-reside very well.  Taipei 6.0.6 contains
only the 6.0.6 script resource, therefore it doesn't update the system. Which
means one can install Beijing 6.0.7 on top of Taipei 6.0.6 and make it a 6.0.7
compatible version.  In my case I then installed English 6.0.7 on top of both
Chinese systems, so it's a "true" 6.0.7, switchable between three environments.

* HanziConverter 1.5 converts all TEXT files between JianTi and FanTi. I use
Word to save the file into TEXT ONLY format, convert it, and then open and redo
the layout. It's "bearable", not bad.

* TurboWriter has two separate versions to work with the two Chinese systems,
which I don't feel very comfortable - although the appropriate version handles
the Chinese characters much better than Word.

* Some companies in Taiwan and Hong Kong are distributing type I postscrip
Chinese character sets (Apple mentioned them in the Readme file). I hope that
they can work with ATM to facilitate non-postscript printers.  ATM co-resides
with the combined Chinese/English system very well.

* Sun Kang mentioned that I failed to get the Chinese system to work with 7.0,
and I did in fact gave it up. So far as I can tell, ChineseTalk does not like
the current English TrueType technology. TrueType is a build-in feature of 7.0.
I did not further ask the Japanese guy about his trick.

* I totally agree that the BEST way to work with Chinese on the Mac is to get
the operating systems (both of them) and use Nisus. Other software also work
(like MS Word) but not as good.


Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Dec 14 15:19:55 1991
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Date:         Sat, 14 Dec 1991 14:10:20 CST
Reply-To: "Jack Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Jack Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Combined system (Mac)
Comments: To: AGCKK@ASUACAD.BITNET, CCNET-L@UGA.BITNET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

--------------- Oringinal question -------------------
Date:         Sat, 14 Dec 91 09:40:02 MST
From:         Chao-Chen Ko <AGCKK@ASUACAD>
Subject:      Chinese System
To:           GR4486@SIUCVMB

1)  What do you mean install one system on top of another system? How?
2)  What do you mean switch between different system? Use SystemSwitcher
    or Blesser?
3)  How to install Taipei 6.0.6? The readme file mentioned English 6.0.6,
    but, as I known English 6.0.6 is not exist!
------------------------------------------------------

Here's how to install systems "on top of" one another --

1.  This is for my current configuration, a "three-in-one" system:
    1.1 Copy the system files from the TA 6.0.6 package to the HD;
    1.2 Use the installer from the CH 6.0.7 package to install the Beijing
    system onto the TA system; This would ADD the Beijing resources to TA;
    1.3 Use the installer from the English 6.0.7 package to install the English
    system onto the Chinese system. This will ADD the standard 6.0.7 features
    to the existing system files.

2.  After the above three operations, the system files on the HD contains all
    the resources for TA, CH and English environment. Since the English is the
    last installed, it will be ON TOP of the Chinese, that is, the English
    menu, dialog boxes, keyboard layout, time & $ format etc, are all set to
    default.

3.  To switch between the three environment, HOLD DOWN Command key and press
    SPACEBAR. First stroke to CH, second to TA, press again eget one back to
    English.  If the Input window does not show up when the Chinese icon is
    displayed on the menu bar, hold down Option and press Spacebar once. (Press
    the same combination again switch to another input method within the same
    environment, i.e. Cihui for TA or ZhuYin for TA).

4.  In this way, no switcher program is needed, and you can combine Jian, Fan &
    English in one document.  However, you do need sufficient disk space and
    RAM to run this complicated system. Another limitation is that documents in
    Chinese titles will not be directly readable from the Finder or from Open/
    Save dialog boxes, because the default display is in English. On the other
    hand this is good especially if your primary tasks are in English or if you
    work w/  people who don't know Chinese: the default makes the configuration
    least intrusive to non-Chinese users.

Hope this is useful to more than one individual in our community.

Credit ought to be given to Huangxin of UPenn, Sun Kang of Yale, and Lao Weng
in Sweden.

Good luck!
-- Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Dec 14 16:00:40 1991
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Date:         Sat, 14 Dec 1991 15:53:50 EST
Reply-To: John McRae <JRM%CORNELLA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John McRae <JRM%CORNELLA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Combined System (Mac)
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Jack Sun recently posted a message about a combined Chinese/English system
for the Mac.  Although I'm not a Mac user, I have friends who perform similar
magic involving Japanese and Chinese on the Mac.  Since the Chinese fonts files
are larger, they add them to KanjiTalk and have access to them along with the
JIS fonts.  These are then combined with SweetJam for compound dictionary
functions (rather like Cihui, I'd suppose) and Canon Fonts for razor-sharp
printing, even on dot matrix output.  Hope this helps the multi-lingual Mac
folks out there...  --  John M.


John R. McRae, Asst. Professor
Department of Asian Studies
388 Rockefeller Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY  14853-2502
(607) 255-1328; fax:  255-1686

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Dec 18 04:42:44 1991
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Date:         Wed, 18 Dec 1991 00:57:00 PST
Reply-To: Xincun Huang <IZZYKD3%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Xincun Huang <IZZYKD3%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      48x48 TAI 6.0.3 fonts:  question on installation
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I have been unable to properly install the 48x48 fonts into the TAI
6.0.x systems.  The characters with codes below c8fe (frequently
used characters [?]) work fine; the characters with codes above
c940 do not.  When the latter are typed or printed, or viewed in the
*Ziti bianxiu* (character editor) panel in the Kongzhi mianban
(control panel), all that appears is random patterns.

To install the fonts, e.g. the Songti 48x48 into TAI 6.0.3, I placed the
font files (Songti48.changyongzi, 1.Songti48cichangyongzi and
2.Songti48cichangyongzi) in the system file, and ran the Installer
with the Songti script; the Installer gave a message that the
installation had been completed.  The fonts were installed, but the
less-frequently used characters have the problem described above.

I suspect that the problem is that the files for the 48x48 character
fonts are split and need to somehow be joined together, since
     i)  the frequently used characters, which come in one file, work
          properly
     i)  this happens with all the 48x48 fonts I have
     ii)  the icon for the fonts suggest that the two files need to be
          joined

Does anyone know how to install them properly?  Any suggestions?


Thanks,
Roger Hart
UCLA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Dec 27 17:17:15 1991
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Date:         Fri, 27 Dec 1991 14:14:04 PST
Reply-To: JCR%HTI.DNET.HAC.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: JCR%HTI.DNET.HAC.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Chinese language scripts
Comments: To: ccnet-l%uga.bitnet@vm1.nodak.edu@hac2arpa.hac.com
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I am looking for the Macintosh Chinese language scripts for system 7.0 (if they
even exist *pout*).  Specifically, I am looking for the simple Chinese
(smSimpChinese) and traditional Chinese (smTradChinese) scripts, which I can
install as secondary scripts.

I am also interested in any information I can obtain on Chinese software for
the Macintosh.  I am not familiar with international software development,
although I wish to learn.

Please send any comments or suggestions to me at:
  (Internet) JCR@HTI.DNET.HAC.COM
  (AOL)      JCRussell

I am not currently subsribed to this forum.  Does it discuss Chinese software
and development for the Mac?

Thank you... Chris.  :)

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Dec 14 16:11:56 1991
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Date:         Sat, 14 Dec 1991 14:57:37 CST
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Info about the laser fonts
Comments: To: ewong@utcs.UTORONTO.CA, cwt2@cunixa.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU,
              ccnet-l@uga.BITNET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Charlie & Eddy,

In the Apple documentation, two aompanies were mentioned for their Laser Fonts.

One is "CompuFont" company in Hong Kong, the other is something like "The
Computer Industrial Union, Taipei" (The original is in Chinese, I am not sure
if you guys read Pinyin: Taibei shi dianniao tongye gonghui).  However, I did
not find the address/phone # for them.

One more place that you may get information from is Apple Inc. in Hong Kong,

Apple Computer International, Hong Kong
Phone: 5-8442400
Fax:   5-8100073

Hope somebody out there can add something to complete the info.

Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jan 15 14:53:46 1992
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Date:         Wed, 15 Jan 1992 20:41:00 GMT+0100
Reply-To: IUTS0%CC.UAB.ES@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: IUTS0%CC.UAB.ES@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Mac LC Problems
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

We have just purchased a Macintosh LC but can't install our Chinese OS
or word-processing programmes (WinText, AllScript). We have installed
the 6.07 OS (NOT 7) and our Chinese OS & word processing programmes
work fine with the 6.07 OS on Macintosh SE & Macintosh Classic and
Macintosh II. Can anyone offer us any advice about this problem?

Sean Golden
iuts0@ccuab.uab.es

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Jan 23 19:54:49 1992
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jan 1992 18:52:27 -0600
Reply-To: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: charles%CALSHP.CALS.WISC.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      reliability of TA6.06 on Mac si?
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Can anyone out there speak of reliability of TA6.06 on Mac si?  If it's
reliable so far as you know, please say so too.  Thank you!

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Jan 31 21:11:31 1992
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jan 1992 20:58:36 -0500
Reply-To: "W. Schlepp" <schlepp%EPAS.UTORONTO.CA@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "W. Schlepp" <schlepp%EPAS.UTORONTO.CA@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      no subject (file transmission)
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hello,

I heard about MacHanzi from an old AppleLink of June 1991 in which it wasn't
 clear whom I should write to; it looked like Xing Li.  Anyway, I would like
 very much to have a copy of this application and would be glad to pay costs of
 disk and mailing.  Otherwise please let me know how to download it.

Since it seems to work vertically or horizontally, could it be adapted to work
 for Mongolian which runs from top to bottom, left to right?  It would require
 variable spacing along the vertical line.

Two other questions:

1.  Has Apple published the file format for their fonts so that it is easier for
 third party Chinese fonts to be ported over to Apple?

2.  Do you know of any commercial database which is script manager compatible,
 i.e. which will recognize the two-byte code so that it will do searches and
 sorts properly?  Filemaker, made by Apple, doesn't follow Apple's own protocols
 in this regard and in the first place it doesn't have a very good search
 routine.  Someone recommended 4th Dimension, the international version, sold in
 Montreal (for us Canadians).  It is a good database but it costs $1800, which
 is a bit rich for my blood.

I would be glad to have your advice in these matters.

W. Schlepp
East Asian Studies
University of Toronto

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Feb 15 13:55:32 1992
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Date:         Sat, 15 Feb 1992 12:47:28 CST
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Adding characters into the Ziku Files...
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

ChineseTalk users:

Does anyone know how to add "user created" characters into the dictionary file?
or why I get the msg "Cannot save changes in disk, save in RAM only"?

I am doing a project that uses a few ancient characters for peoples names and
the names of places (Human). Most of them can be found in the "Xinghua Zidian"
(New Chinese Dict, 1971 edition), but they are not (I did not find them) in the
Big-5 Ziku files. I use Song and Kai.

Thanks for any hints.

Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Mar  2 03:12:44 1992
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Date:         Mon, 2 Mar 1992 00:09:29 PST
Reply-To: "[none]" <xiaomin@GIRTAB.USC.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "[none]" <xiaomin@GIRTAB.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Cihui Input
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi, I have problem with Lai's Cihui input. There is some problem al least
with the Cihui program I use with Traditional Chinese OS. When I type
pinyin, Some Chinese characters (like those whose pinyin start with A or F etc,
respond fine. Other Chinese characters(starting with S or Z) appear
strange in the Chinese character window. And when I type the first
pinyin character, the list of Chinese characters appears. When more
Chinese character(s) added, the list disppear. So I have hard time to
find even some often-used Chinese character. Can someoen help me
figure out what's going wrong?  Also, is there some sites I can FTP
additional fonts except the standard Taipei and Beijing 12? Thank you
very much. I appreciate it. Alex.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Mar  4 03:06:13 1992
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Date:         Wed, 4 Mar 1992 03:04:22 -0500
Reply-To: Jiajie Zhang <zhang%cogsci.UCSD.EDU%SDSC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Jiajie Zhang <zhang%cogsci.UCSD.EDU%SDSC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Help needed for installing Chinese Talk II
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@Sdsc.BITNET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I recently got my Apple Developer CD and downloaded Chinese Talk II.
The CD, however, does not contain the installation instructions.  I
would greatly appreciate it if someone who has installed Chinese Talk
II could give me some suggestions.  Thanks in advance.

Jiajie Zhang
jzhang@ucsd.edu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Mar  4 10:21:02 1992
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Date:         Wed, 4 Mar 1992 10:13:09 EST
Reply-To: Kang Sun <sun@CORWIN.ENG.YALE.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Kang Sun <sun@CORWIN.ENG.YALE.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Help needed for installing Chinese Talk II
Comments: To: zhang@cogsci.UCSD.EDU
Comments: cc: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@yalevm.ycc.YALE.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

> I recently got my Apple Developer CD and downloaded Chinese Talk II.
> The CD, however, does not contain the installation instructions.  I
> would greatly appreciate it if someone who has installed Chinese Talk
> II could give me some suggestions.  Thanks in advance.

First you install the regular english version 7.0x. And then just drop
whatever in these two disk folders (disk #1 and disk #2) into the
system folder. The one extension file (sys/7 or something like it)
will be put into the extension folder automatically. And then the
important thing would be the localization files are all in a folder
called Localization within the system folder. I forgot where the fonts
will go, but they are all in their original folder within the system
folder. If you have the big fonts for system 6.05, you can simply drop
them in and they will work. By the way, does the CD version comes with
the big fonts at all?

It comes with a PinYin mode which you can choose to use. You have to
use tab to get a list of the characters that matches the pinyin.

You can "localize" (Chinese-ize) your applications by use the extedit
(in the tools directory) to map the Geneva and Chicago fonts and any
other fonts you like into Taipei or GaoXiong (spelling?) fonts. This
will let you view Chinese in the dialogou box within the application
that was originally displayed in Chicago or Geneva where any Chinese
text (such as file names) would present garbage. This of course would
not change the menu bar and any English text within the application,
for which you have to use REdit to change if you have the time and
energy. But I don't mind getting a totally localized version of any
application that you like to change.

Instructions for localization is included in the tools folder, I
believe. However, I have some problems running it. Wheneve I try to
open the finder localization file, even a copy of it, I will get
bombed. This may be due to the fact that I installed the System 7 Fine
Tuner on top of the Chinese Talk II. I would be happy to hear from
anyone who has or hasn't at all this problem.

In short, I think Chinese Talk II is a very nice program and it meets
most of my need, except, well, the PinYin input method needs to be
updated. Ed Lai of Apple said he doesn't have enough information about
Chinese Talk II to upgrade his cihui input method. So, if anyone can
provide information on that, surely the rest of us will appreciate.

-- Kang

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Mar  4 20:05:07 1992
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Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1992 11:52:13 EST
Reply-To: Tony Lim <lin@TASMAN.CC.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Tony Lim <lin@TASMAN.CC.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject:      How to use Chinese system files downloaded from CD-ROM? (
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Forwarded message:
>From lin Thu Mar  5 11:48:39 1992
From: Tony Lim <lin@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au>
Message-Id: <9203050047.AA27879@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au>
Subject: How to use Chinese system files downloaded from CD-ROM?
To: zhang@cogsci.UCSD.EDU
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 92 11:47:10 EST
Cc: lin@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tony Lim)
In-Reply-To: <9203040806.AA11833@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au>; from "Jiajie Zhang" at
 Mar 4, 92 3:04 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi, All Chinese computing - Macintosh experts,

A friend of mine downloaded Chinese system files from Apple's "Develop"
CD-ROM recently.  All files are 820K in size with name ended ".image".
How can he decod such files?  Any special attentions should be take during
instalation?

Any advices would be much appreciated.

--Tony Lim

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Mar  4 22:53:07 1992
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Date:         Wed, 4 Mar 1992 22:44:10 EST
Reply-To: Kang Sun <sun@CORWIN.ENG.YALE.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Kang Sun <sun@CORWIN.ENG.YALE.EDU>
Subject:      RE: How to use Chinese system files downloaded from CD-ROM? (
Comments: To: lin@TASMAN.CC.UTAS.EDU.AU
Comments: cc: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Tony Lim's message of Thu, 5 Mar 1992 11:52:13 EST
Status: RO

> Hi, All Chinese computing - Macintosh experts,
>
> A friend of mine downloaded Chinese system files from Apple's "Develop"
> CD-ROM recently.  All files are 820K in size with name ended ".image".
> How can he decod such files?  Any special attentions should be take during
> instalation?

These are disk image files. You will need a utility called diskcopy
(version 4.0, I believe) to convert the image file and store the files
into floppies. You can get diskcopy from
	ftp.apple.com
I forgot which directory, something like dts.

I have mentioned about the installation procedure in my last posting.
Hope this will help.

-- Kang

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar  5 00:17:13 1992
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Date:         Wed, 4 Mar 1992 23:12:10 CDT
Reply-To: thomasc@WRI.COM
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: thomasc@WRI.COM
Subject:      RE: How to use Chinese system files downloaded from CD-ROM? (
Comments: To: Kang Sun <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <199203050351.AA00680@dragonfly.wri.com>; from "Kang Sun" at Mar
              4, 92 10:44 pm
Status: RO

>
> These are disk image files. You will need a utility called diskcopy
> (version 4.0, I believe) to convert the image file and store the files
> into floppies. You can get diskcopy from
> 	ftp.apple.com

'diskcopy' can be found on the same Apple developer CD too.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar  5 17:00:57 1992
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Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1992 15:45:31 CST
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      .image files (Mac)
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

.image files are created by DiskCopy from Apple.  They are "images" of every
bit of a floppy so they can be used to make "master copies" of released stuff.

DiskCopy can be ftp-ed from ftp.apple.com, in the directory dts/mac/tools.

Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Mar  9 13:52:25 1992
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Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1992 14:31:46 CST
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Question: How to assign Pinyin to user made characters? (Mac)
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Mac users:

I have made a few new characters in Song and Kai in TA6.0.6 system, they are
assigned in the user defined area of the CharEdit cdev. (starting c6a1).
How can I assign PinYin codes to those new characters if I want to use the
ZhuYin (PinYin or Cihui) input mode?

Thanks for any help.

Jack

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar 12 03:31:03 1992
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Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1992 00:28:00 PST
Reply-To: Xincun Huang <IZZYKD3%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Xincun Huang <IZZYKD3%UCLAMVS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Mac Chinese II font installation problem
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I just installed the new Chinese Talk II into System 7, but I
was unable to get the TA1 6.0.3 or 6.0.5 fonts to work (I
tried the Song 48 pt. font from 6.0.3 and the Ming Light 48
pt. font from 6.0.5.

When I tried to install the fonts, several strange things
happened.  Since the fonts would not install into System 7
with the 6.0.5 Font Installer, I used the System 7 drag and
drop to copy the fonts to the System suitcase in System 7,
and copied the character bitmap files to the System folder.
However, neither the Song nor the Ming fonts would show up in
Nisus or Word.  And when I restarted the Mac, the Song fonts
*were no longer in the System suitcase.*  I tried this again,
with the same result. My 105MB disk started showing a
capacity of 97 + 1 instead of the 98 + 3, and  MacTools found
that the Volume Bitmap was damaged (but repairable).

It seems unlikely that I should put the 6.0.6 *Ziti bianxiu*
etc. in the folder, but I have not tried that yet.  But
because of the problems with the Song font, it seems that
there must be some problem with font ID conflicts or something
more complicated.

I would certainly appreciate any assistance with this problem.

Roger Hart
UCLA

P.S. In answer to a question on the net, the 6.0.5 fonts
included on the latest APDA CD-ROM include:

Ming Light 24 pt.
Ming Light 48 pt.
Ming Heavy 48 pt.
Ming Heavy 64 pt.
Kai Medium 24 pt.
Kai Medium 48 pt.
Hei Medium 48 pt.
Hei Medium 64 pt.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Mar 22 02:40:26 1992
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Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1992 23:37:53 PST
Reply-To: "[none]" <xiaomin@GIRTAB.USC.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "[none]" <xiaomin@GIRTAB.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Chinese fonts
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I wonder if someone can give me help on installing fonts on Chinese OS.
I have hands on some additional fonts for both TA and BEI. But I don't
know whether I should put them right into the system folder (6.0.7) or
insert with the disk after the message "please insert font disk"? I tried
both, but got the result that either the system bomed with address error
or the fonts did not even change. I guess I have problem understanding
the function of Chinese fonts. It surely does not work like English fonts
that you can see and select them from menu. Can we see a list of Chinese
fonts somewhere and select them as we can with the English system? The
defaut font is a system font or one of the replaceable font? Someone
please help me. Thanks. Alex.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Mar 25 23:35:32 1992
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1992 22:35:00 CDT
Reply-To: "MAK, TIN LUN" <ETMAX%TTACS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "MAK, TIN LUN" <ETMAX%TTACS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Fonts anyone?
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Dear netters,
   I am looking for fonts for TaiwanTalk 6.0.5, if any one of you happen to have
any, please let me know.  Please...........
   Thanks.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Apr  8 11:40:54 1992
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:15:06 BST
Reply-To: MUS6PJN@CMS1.LEEDS.AC.UK
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: MUS6PJN@CMS1.LEEDS.AC.UK
Subject:      TaiwanTalk 6.0.5 Fonts
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Some time ago someone asked how to get hold of the supplementary
fonts for TaiwanTalk. They are on the Winter 1991 APDA developer
CD-Rom as 17 (yes, senenteen) 720k disk images. All the APDA
CD-Roms contain latest international system software and utilities.
The CD-Roms come 4 times a year with Apple's Develop Magazine.
Hope this helps.
                            Peter


                                           Peter J. Nix
                                           Dept. of East Asian Studies
                                           University of Leeds
                                           0532-332580
                                           MUS6PJN@UK.AC.LEEDS
                                           MUS6PJN%LEEDS.AC.UK@UKACRL
                                           MUS6PJN%LEEDS.AC.UK@UKC.UUCP

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Apr  8 21:24:10 1992
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:02:58 -0400
Reply-To: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Tao Tao <txt15@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:      Address needed, please help...
Comments: To: ccnet-l%uga.BITNET@cunyvm.CUNY.Edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I would like to know the internet ID for Dr. Wang's SE/30 in Dept. Physics,
University of Pennylvania.  His current E-mail address would be helpful too.

The purpose is to get hold of the Chinese system 7.0, and my assumption is that
7.0 for traditional Chinese has been out, so should be the one for simplified
Chinese.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Tao

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Apr 27 22:13:11 1992
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Date:         Mon, 27 Apr 1992 15:06:40 CDT
Reply-To: "Clare B. Dunkle" <CDUNKLE@TRINITY.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Clare B. Dunkle" <CDUNKLE@TRINITY.EDU>
Subject:      Chinese fonts for the Mac
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

     Although I don't subscribe to your list, I have a problem which only
your expertise can solve.  I need to add a few simplified Chinese characters
to an article which I am writing.  (That is, where I use a Chinese word as an
example, I would like to include its character as well as Pinyin for the
sake of accuracy.)  I will be sending out the document on disk, and it needs to
be in something standard like Word (Macintosh, which is what I am writing it
in) or WordPerfect (PC).
     I have Byx, but I cannot edit in Byx because my editor cannot use
Byx at his end.  I had hoped to scan in the characters and put them into the
document as small graphics, which Word does well.  The scanning proved
disappointing, and I do not have access to a high-resolution scanner which
would provide workable output.
     Is there some Chinese font which I can open somehow on the Mac and
use in transferring characters into Word as a graphic?  Is it available
for FTP on Internet?  I have MacHanzi (read-only) but cannot figure out how
to make it help the situation.  Are there any Chinese text editors or
word processors on the Net which I could FTP?
     Thank you very much for your help.  Please respond to me as I am not
a subscriber to your list (cdunkle at trinity.edu)

Clare B. Dunkle
Maddux Library
Trinity University
San Antonio, TX 78212
512-736-7612

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 20 10:04:46 1992
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Date:         Wed, 20 May 1992 12:04:38 +0200
Reply-To: Christian Icking <christian.icking@FERNUNI-HAGEN.DE>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Christian Icking <christian.icking@FERNUNI-HAGEN.DE>
Subject:      Doc for Chinese input methods wanted
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I have got the Chinese Macintosh OS (ChineseTalk II) which comes
with some input methods for Chinese characters. I know PinYin,
of course, but using it as input method is very slow and fatiguing.

How can I learn the other methods, DaYi, CangJie, ZhuYin?
Where can I get a description (book or what else?) for them?
Can I install other inputs methods besides these? What would you recommend?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Christian Icking
FernUniversitaet Hagen      phone: +49 2331/987-4330
Praktische Informatik VI    Fax:   +49 2331/332904
Elberfelder Str. 95         email: christian.icking@fernuni-hagen.de
D - 5800 Hagen 1

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri May 22 21:23:05 1992
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Date:         Fri, 22 May 1992 21:19:25 -0400
Reply-To: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Tao Tao <txt15@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:      How to write traditional characters in simplified OS..
Comments: To: ccnet-l%uga.BITNET@cunyvm.CUNY.Edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Dear fellow netters,

I recall seeing post on use the traditional fonts in the simplified operating
system for Apple Macintosh about a year ago.  I would appreciate it if someone
could provide me with the original posting or the detailed procedure of doing
this.

Also, I would like to know how to install ChineseTalk II?  Is it simplified or
traditional?  What kind of input methods are supported by Traditional OS for
Apple Macintosh?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Tao

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Apr  6 12:47:46 1992
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 00:45:37 CST
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      ChineseTalk II Documentation
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Chinese System 7.0 (Mac) users:

Here's a binhexd .cpt file that contains some basic instructions on System 7.0
Chinese Module.  Installation and other info are covered.  Most importantly,
the developer's e-mail address is there.

Use Compactor Pro to decode the .hqx file into a .cpt file, then extract it to
a folder with three MacWrite II files.  MS Word is capable of reading it if you
don't have MW II.  Hold down SHIFT key and OPEN them ...

Down loaded from info-mac.

-- Jack

-------------------  Original Mail ---------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1992 14:33:14 +0800
From: hywang@apple.com
Subject: ChineseTalk II support (A)

This Compact Pro document contains two MacWrite II documents.  The file "CT2
Overview" briefly describes the status of ChineseTalk II, the Traditional
Chinese script system for System 7, and the file "installation" is the
installation guide of ChineseTalk II.

ChineseTalk II is the traditional Chinese script system we ship with our
machines here in Taiwan, so now you can find it, alone with other script
systems, in Apple Developer's CD-ROM.  For those who does not have the access
to this CD-ROM, or for those who needs the manual (currently in Chinese only),
please contact us.  We are very willing to send the ChineseTalk II package to
the interested developers and user-group-like parties. (Sorry, not for
individual yet).

Here is the name and E-mail address of us, the R&D team behind ChineseTalk II:

Szeto, Man
  AppleLink : Szeto.M
  internet  : szeto#m#_man@msgate.corp.apple.com
Wang, Hao-yang
  internet  : hywang@apple.com

(This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0)

:&N0SD@jPFf98B@aV-L"*ER4bEbjMF(3!8%&$9%033e3"!!!!3rX!!!!!8e3"!65
8!!"$4$i!!!!!!!!'!!!!!!!!!!!!-(F!L)J!9R!!N!!!#3"`!!"i"hL3!(F!PjL
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I0i',mDIkQ`bZ(#[l@&j-[irP6r`C(3A[UDVMii2Kr*Haa)DZ&Y$lm@%`)Xp*r2h
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[bDrCRQ4c3EbfkY!cR0'("l#9MbXpK``i%%""dKGm6q#(k8j*CJ'NJ8U3!(M$(YS
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bT`TFl129Hl*,p,A3J!!!,6UPMJ!$!!j5C@&N)'eP)'CTFR0d,J%!!!!)9%9B9(4
dH(5PmlqDTI1rQJ!!q[JEYJ!%!!!!!!!!!i!!!!!!!!!#+Ja$9$)J6hCPFRCTCAF
"!!!#-NeA-N409dP*TFr9"+A2he!"!,i(+-`!"!!!!!!!!&X!!!!!!!!!),--D@j
cG'&XE'&dD@pZ!3!!)Z909c*%69G*5D8AR&UP),p(!3"l+Z%D!!3!!!!!!!")!!!
!!!!!!#"IrdB!!!:

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jun 17 14:31:16 1992
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   with BSMTP id 4658; Wed, 17 Jun 92 14:28:19 EDT
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 Wed, 17 Jun 92 14:28:17 EDT
Date:         Wed, 17 Jun 1992 11:29:20 -0700
Reply-To: Bo Yang <eric@COEUS.UCSD.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Bo Yang <eric@COEUS.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      [Question] Fonts in ChineseTalk II
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Does anyone know if the fonts come with ChineseTalk II for Mac are outlined
or bitmapped?

One might consider them to be bitmapped by looking at their names, which are
Songti64, Heiti64, etc. The reason I'm wondering is that their sizes are
different, with that for Heiti being the smallest, which makes sense
if they're outlined.


B O   Y A N G                          { e r i c @ c o e u s . u c s d . e d u }

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jun 28 21:14:34 1992
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   with BSMTP id 4477; Sun, 28 Jun 92 21:12:35 EDT
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 Sun, 28 Jun 92 21:12:33 EDT
Date:         Sun, 28 Jun 1992 21:11:50 EDT
Reply-To: Charles W Tang <cwt2@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Charles W Tang <cwt2@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      input method for ChineseTalk?
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi!  For all of you Mac ChineseTalk II users out there -- do you
remember "Cihui" written by Ed Lai for ChineseTalk OS 6.0.x's?  Is
there a new version of cihui that works with the current ChineseTalk
II?

If not, what input method do you use?

Have you ever printed out Chinese documents with a PostScript Level II
printer?  How does it look?  I understand that if you print out Chinese
documents with an Apple IINTX-J, the output would look amazingly smooth
-- no matter how large the font size is.  What about printing with a PS
level II printer?  Would it look as nice?

Thanks,

--the ignorant Charles


  **** Om Ma-Ni Pe-Me Hung **** | "All the world's phenomena and ideas
  ==============================|  Are like a dream, like magic,
      Charles Wei-Ting Tang     |  and like a reflected image."
   cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu  |                 -- The Diamond Sutra

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jun 28 21:14:34 1992
Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by sirius.ctr.columbia.edu (5.67/5.10) with SMTP id AA10700; Sun, 28 Jun 92 21:14:30 -0400
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   with BSMTP id 4477; Sun, 28 Jun 92 21:12:35 EDT
Received: from UGA.BITNET by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7729;
 Sun, 28 Jun 92 21:12:33 EDT
Date:         Sun, 28 Jun 1992 21:11:50 EDT
Reply-To: Charles W Tang <cwt2@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Charles W Tang <cwt2@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      input method for ChineseTalk?
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi!  For all of you Mac ChineseTalk II users out there -- do you
remember "Cihui" written by Ed Lai for ChineseTalk OS 6.0.x's?  Is
there a new version of cihui that works with the current ChineseTalk
II?

If not, what input method do you use?

Have you ever printed out Chinese documents with a PostScript Level II
printer?  How does it look?  I understand that if you print out Chinese
documents with an Apple IINTX-J, the output would look amazingly smooth
-- no matter how large the font size is.  What about printing with a PS
level II printer?  Would it look as nice?

Thanks,

--the ignorant Charles


  **** Om Ma-Ni Pe-Me Hung **** | "All the world's phenomena and ideas
  ==============================|  Are like a dream, like magic,
      Charles Wei-Ting Tang     |  and like a reflected image."
   cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu  |                 -- The Diamond Sutra

From @cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu:CCNET-L@UGA.BITNET Thu Apr 12 01:12:50 1990
Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by sirius.ctr.columbia.edu (5.61/5.10) with SMTP id AA11339; Thu, 12 Apr 90 01:12:47 -0400
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Date:         Wed, 11 Apr 90 17:18:17 CDT
Reply-To: Andy Nulman <PL6AAIU%VM.TCS.TULANE.EDU@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
From: Andy Nulman <PL6AAIU%VM.TCS.TULANE.EDU@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject:      Chinese Macintoshing
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Kim-
  I have been interested in Macs since 1984, and studying Chinese for 4
years, so it is a natural to be interested in Chinese WP.
   Although for utility's sake, the simplified (jiantizi) characters are
worthwhile, I have an aesthetic and ideological preference for the trad-
itional (fantizi) characters..
  Being left-handed, my calligraphy is terrible. So if I want to communicate
with Chinese, I generally speak Mandarin but write English.
  The problem is, some of my friends in Taiwan and mainland don't know
English! When I lived there we always spoke Chinese.
  The Macinthosh is a natural for Chinese language because of its GUI, icons,
and lack of a DOS which is grounded in the English language. It's too bad
the PC is already the standard there, but Apple has clamped down on
imitation Macs which wre being made in Taiwan.
   Three years ago, there was a Taiwanese company making black Mac II's,
but Apple killed it. This was long before Apple Pacific was conceived.

  As far as software goes, the company which makes MISHU DA said they are
going to come out with a traditional-character version.
   Also, there is that company in Taiwan which was using Fontographer to
design an absolutely stunning font set, with a laser version planned, but
their software package went for US$2000.00, which is ridiculous unless you
are interested in professional publishing.
   Linguist's Software is waiting to hear from Apple to release the 6.0?
System with their MacChinese software.  It lets you switch between the
English and Chinese Systems. But Apple is really dragging its feet with
giving them the ok.
   Tell me more about your Hypercard stack.  Also, MacCalligraphy should
be helpful if don't want to scan output from the Tianma when you expand
it. (How many characters are in there?)
   Also, there is a Beijing Font produced at the University of Idaho. Do
you know anything about this?  As far as I can imagine, it must be a
pin-yin font with tone marks...?

From adobe!adobe.com!abe@decwrl.dec.com Wed Apr 11 04:04:39 1990
Received: from decwrl.dec.com by sirius.ctr.columbia.edu (5.61/5.10) with SMTP id AA03229; Wed, 11 Apr 90 04:04:33 -0400
Received: by decwrl.dec.com; id AA27010; Tue, 10 Apr 90 11:23:59 -0700
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	id AA09893; Tue, 10 Apr 90 11:17:13 PDT
Received: by stratford.adobe.com (4.0/SMI-4.0)
	id AA06522; Tue, 10 Apr 90 11:17:03 PDT
From: abe@adobe.com (Masumi Abe)
Message-Id: <9004101817.AA06522@stratford.adobe.com>
To: henry@Sun.COM, yjj@sirius.ctr.columbia.edu, ewong@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca,
        apple!ttidca.TTI.COM!hsu@decwrl.dec.com
Cc: abe@adobe.com
Subject: Chinese PostScript printer and font
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 11:17:01 PDT
Status: RO

Apple announced LW NTX-a at MacWorld Asia 89 show at Singapore last
year.

Unfortunately, I have not seen this LW so far. But rumor told me that
Apple uses TTL (Type Technology Limited) Chinese fonts for this LW.
TTL is a Hong Kong company, and it's president Mr. Orr was formally
with Monotype Hong Kong. 

I have seen their font designs, and they impressed me as a one of the
better Chinese (Taiwan style) fonts I have seen. But there is another
side of this story. I have heard that Monotype claimed at least one of
TTL fonts has been illegally stolen or copied by Mr. Orr.

There are other companies from Hong Kong and Taiwan which is under
development of PostScript Chinese fonts. Among them, Asiagraphic
Technology is already marketing their PostScript Japanese fonts in
Japan. 

	Asiagraphics Technology Ltd.    
	9A GreatMany Centre             
	109 Queen's Road East
	Wanchai, Hong Kong
	(5) 8655-225
	Fax: (5) 8655-250
	Modem: (5) 865-4816


At Adobe Systems Incorporated, we are interested in Chinese fonts, of
course. We have already acquired some Chinese fonts, but I cannot tell
you any of our development plans.

At this moment, Japanese market is significantly larger than Chinese
market. And we are focusing in Japanese market, now and very near
future.


Personally, I have not seen any other PostScript Chinese fonts. If you
need bitmapped Chinese fonts, MacChinese from Linguist's Software could 
be your answer. You may use these fonts with your MSWord.
	Linguists' Software   
	P.O.Box 580              
	Edmonds, WA 98020-0580
	(206) 775-1130

If you are interested in Chinese word-processor for your Mac or PC, 
FeiMa for Mac and TianMa for XT&AT could be your answer.

FeiMa is from Wu Corporation.	
	Wu Corp.   
	wordprocessor
	46 West Avon Rd.
	Avon, CT 06001
	(203) 673-4796

TienMa is from Asiacom.
I am afraid I do not have Asiacom address and phone #.
please contact:

	Worldwide Design Group
	P.O. Box 8950
	Stanford, CA 94309
	(415) 493-8800

for TienMa and other softwares and even about Chinese and Japanese
PostScript printers.


--Masumi Abe
  Manager of Typographic Development for Japan
  Adobe Systems Incorporated



From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri May 22 21:23:05 1992
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 Fri, 22 May 92 21:20:00 EDT
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1992 21:19:25 -0400
Reply-To: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Tao Tao <txt15@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:      How to write traditional characters in simplified OS..
Comments: To: ccnet-l%uga.BITNET@cunyvm.CUNY.Edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Dear fellow netters,

I recall seeing post on use the traditional fonts in the simplified operating
system for Apple Macintosh about a year ago.  I would appreciate it if someone
could provide me with the original posting or the detailed procedure of doing
this.

Also, I would like to know how to install ChineseTalk II?  Is it simplified or
traditional?  What kind of input methods are supported by Traditional OS for
Apple Macintosh?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Tao

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Aug  8 16:02:31 1990
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 Wed, 08 Aug 90 16:01:36 EDT
Date:         Wed, 8 Aug 90 12:55:02 PDT
Reply-To: Pai Chou <chou%sim.Berkeley.EDU%UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Pai Chou <chou%sim.Berkeley.EDU%UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Hanzi terminal emulator program for Macintosh
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

(I just learned about this network, and this is the
 first time I am posting a message here)

I wrote a dumb terminal emulator program, "Taipei Term",
for the Macintosh running under the Mac Taiwan OS.
It is intended for mixing Romazi and Hanzi in emails
and news articles by encoding two 8-bit BIG-5 code using
three 7-bit ASCII characters.  The format, tentativelly
called "T3", starts with either the  or the ` character
followed by two printable characters which are not
, `, or _.

I have successfully posted sample messages in the
soc.culture.{c,t,hk} newsgroups.  I am giving the
program away to anybody that requests for it.
If interested, please send email to
chou@sim.berkeley.edu until 9/15/90.

Pai Chou

From sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uwm.edu!bionet!agate!pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!chou Tue Oct  2 18:32:35 EDT 1990
Article: 19031 of soc.culture.china
Xref: sol.ctr.columbia.edu soc.culture.taiwan:8324 soc.culture.china:19031 soc.culture.hongkong:6356
Path: sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uwm.edu!bionet!agate!pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!chou
From: chou@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Pai Chou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Taipei-100 available by anonymous ftp
Message-ID: <28411@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 2 Oct 90 17:10:31 GMT
Sender: news@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: chou@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Pai Chou)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 44
Status: RO


   (Taipei-100 is the vt-100 Hanzi terminal emulator for Macintosh)

   I have found a more permanent ftp site for the Taipei-100 program
documentation, source code, and conversion utilities.  This is the
same version as the one I announced earlier in September.
You can copy them using anonymous ftp from june.cs.washington.edu
[ 128.95.1.4 ] under the pub/Taipei-100 directory.

% ftp june.cs.washington.edu
Name: anonymous
Password: anonymous
ftp> cd pub/Taipei-100
ftp> ls
README          t2b.c           taipei-hqx.Z    taipei-src.Z
b2t.c           taipei-doc.Z    taipei-pas.Z


   Note that the .Z files are compressed and must be transferred
using the "binary mode".  The ones without .Z should be copied
using the "ascii mode".  Mode can be set by typing either "ascii"
or "binary".

ftp> ascii
ftp> get README
...

   Please read README before you decide what to get, because not all
files are of interest to everybody.  In fact, taipei-doc and taipei-pas
are the text-only version of the other packages, and they are intended
for people who don't have a Macintosh but would be interested in
reading the documentation and source code.


ftp> binary
ftp> taipei-hqx.Z
...

ftp> bye
% uncompress taipei-hqx.Z
%

---
Pai Chou


From sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!mips!apple!lai Sun Oct  7 19:57:43 EDT 1990
Article: 19346 of soc.culture.china
Xref: sol.ctr.columbia.edu soc.culture.china:19346 soc.culture.taiwan:8416 soc.culture.hongkong:6413 comp.sys.mac.misc:3912
Path: sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!mips!apple!lai
From: lai@Apple.COM (Ed Lai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Cihui input for Chinese Macintosh
Message-ID: <45422@apple.Apple.COM>
Date: 7 Oct 90 12:53:37 GMT
References: <45407@apple.Apple.COM>
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA
Lines: 84
Status: RO

In article <45407@apple.Apple.COM> lai@Apple.COM (Ed Lai) writes:
>I am releasing Cihui 1.8, a phrase input method for Macintosh traditional
>Chinese system 6.0x. Anyone interested please contact me by e-mail.
>

I have recieved quite a number of queries, but only very few who really can
use Cihui 1.8. So I need to make some clarification.

Cihui is not a Chinese WP, it is not a Chinese OS, rather it is an input method
to be used with Mac traditional Chinese OS 6.0x (by x I mean 3 or 4, and other
digits for future version, not that x is the version number). Which means that
you cannot use Cihui without having the right Chinese OS.

If you buy the Mac in the US, you get the English version of the OS, i.e. the
system file, finder etc. If you buy it in Taiwan, you would get the Chinese
version, this is the 6.0x that I am talking here. All the appropiate routines
have been modifed to handle Chinese. So if you run an application on top of the
Chinese OS, such as TeachText, HyperCard, ResEdit etc, you can use Chinese with
it. If you want to use a WP, however most WP does not work very well with 2
bytes codes (unless TeachText is good enough for you, then it should work 100%),
in most cases you can still used existing WP, but it would not function 100%
right, so whether you can use you favorite WP under the Chinese OS depends on
how much you are willing to tolerate. If you want a full function WP that works
100% with the Chinese OS, you need to find one that is script manager available.
Unfortunately thee are not that many such WP available, especially when you
are in the US. One that is available is the TurboWriter, which is probably
fairly basic, but is script manager compatiable and also have some Chinese
specific feature such as vertical editing/printing, and the inclusion of
ZhuYin sysmbols next to the character (including auto-generation). For more
information contact

TransPac Software
4340 Stevens Creek Blvd, Suite 203
San Jose, CA 95129
(408)984-8475.

To get the Chinese OS, the best way to get it is get it from one of the CD
that apple publishes. If you know any developer, then it is available from
several of the developer's CD. If you do not know any developer, you may
subscribe to a magazine called d e v e l o p, in every issue there is a CD-ROM
and in issue 3 (july 90) the CD has the Chinese systems. The subscription
price is $30 for four issues. Contact
 
d e v e l o p
Apple Computer Inc
P.O.Box 531
Mt. Morris, IL 61054
(800)545-9364
 
If you cannot borrow a CD drive to read the CD-ROM to get the files, you can
still get it from APDA, but it would be more expensive and you cannot get
version 6.0x.
 
There are also one or two companies that go through the usual trick of
licensing the Chinese OS, claiming it will be bundled with some application,
and then sell it (I don't think they even both to put in the "application",
which usually should be no better than TeachText). If anyone is so desperate
to order from them, I have to dig up the address.

I forget to say documentation on the Chinese OS is very difficult to get,
however except for the input method it is not difficult to guess. Cihui does
come with documentation, but it does assume familiarity with other input method,
maybe one day I should add a paragraph on what is common to all input method
to make the cihui documenation complete by itself.

If you are still interested and can actually use it, contact me and I shall
e-mail you a copy stuffed and binhexed (this is standard for the Mac, but this
implies you must know how to do it and have these utilites). Since I did not
mention it in the documention, I shall add here that to use Cihui just drop
the file into the system folder and reboot.

Finally because of the size of the OS and the font, you must have at least 2M
to run the Chinese OS, and Cihui would consume more memory, reducing the RAM
left for you to run your application.

>
>/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
>/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
>/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
>/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
>/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
>/* (408)974-6272                                               */
>zW@h9cOi
>


From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Sep 11 07:17:28 1990
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Date:         Tue, 11 Sep 90 00:59:23 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      DA for converting Hanzi
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

For Macintosh users:
	I wrote a little Mac DA for text editing, as well as Chinese Hanzi
file viewing.  If you are interested, drop me a note and I will send you
the binhex'ed file.  Here is a brief intro about this DA:

============
This is a little DA for view any file as text.  (Somewhat like the Unix
command "strings" does).  I bet very often you might feel that on
Mac, there are no quick way for view text (like the DOS command "type"), or
write a short note.  Here QRead is for you to solve this problem!

Features:
** It can do regular Mac text editing, find, print.  Also it displays the
file type, size and creator information.
** In version 2.0, I put in the converter between the two mainland Chinese
coding formats: Hanzi and SGB (Standard Guo Biao). The original filter source
code was written by Lee Fung Fung of Stanford.  To read a Chinese file
coded in Hanzi format, you just open that text file and choose "HZtoSGB"
command (supposed you are running upon a Mac mainland Chinese system)

Note:  to view or edit a regular Chinese text file on Mac, choose
        "use system font" menu. (the default font is monaco 9 pt).

QRead is free.  Try it out and enjoy!  Source codes can be obtained on
request.  Report any bugs to:
        wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu
        Huangxin Wang, Dept. of Physics, Univ. of Pennsylvania.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Sep 11 15:40:26 1990
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Date:         Tue, 11 Sep 90 15:49:44 EDT
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Customize Chinese characters on Mac
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Character in the Chinese OS on Mac can be customized by open the "Zhong Wen Xi
Tong" DA, edit the shape of the Chinese characters, add in your own characters
or any rare charatcers found in a big dictionary.  But user-defined charatcers
are coded in two byte machine index.  How can I retreat them (when I input in
pinyin)?  Also is it possible to give the add-in characters pinyin that it will
show up at when you type in that pinyin?

Another different question:  Can anyone out there who has used both TianMa on
PC and Chinese system on Mac compare the usefulness of the two programs?
>From what it advertised for TianMa, Chinese OS on Mac seems to do the same
thing (pinyin or Cizu input, mixing pinyin and bi-hua input, etc.)
Also what's the comparison of the VGA and EGA monochronic terminal with the
standard Mac Plus terminal in resolution?

		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!uw-beaver!uw-june!june.cs.washington.edu!chou Mon Nov  5 12:24:27 EST 1990
Article: 20753 of soc.culture.china
Xref: sol.ctr.columbia.edu soc.culture.taiwan:8989 soc.culture.hongkong:6625 soc.culture.china:20753
Path: sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!uw-beaver!uw-june!june.cs.washington.edu!chou
From: chou@june.cs.washington.edu (Pai Chou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
Subject: Taipei-100 (Chinese vt100 emulator for Mac) updates
Message-ID: <13622@june.cs.washington.edu>
Date: 4 Nov 90 08:29:02 GMT
Sender: chou@cs.washington.edu
Reply-To: chou@june.cs.washington.edu (Pai Chou)
Organization: U of Washington, Computer Science, Seattle
Lines: 31
Status: RO

(Taipei-100 is a Chinese vt100 emulator for Macintosh.  I first
 announced it in early September.  I am giving it away for free.
 It can be copied by anonymous ftp from june.cs.washington.edu (128.95.1.4)
 under the pub/Taipei-100 directory.)

I made a couple of updates since my last message in October.

You don't have a Mac?  Well, I am working on a version for IBM PC/compatible.
It will be ready in December.  It will use the ETen system or other equivalent
BIG-5 system.




--------
New file
--------
Oct 29 1990
   I added the "a2b2t.c" program so now you can read the atob-encoded
   HKU news in one step (instead of piped filters).

-------
Bug fix
-------
Oct 14 1990
   (1) the "ghost cursor", i.e. cursor bar remains on screen even though
       the cursor has moved away, has been busted.
   (2) When you type beyond the 80th column, now the cursor wraps
       around as it does on most terminals.  Previously, the cursor
       does not move until you hit a return.
   (3) Baud rate is now saved correctly when you quit your program.


From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Oct 29 22:00:03 1990
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Date:         Tue, 30 Oct 90 03:55:42 +0100
Reply-To: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung%NADA.KTH.SE@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung%NADA.KTH.SE@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: More about Chinese OS 6.03
Comments: To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Mon,
              29 Oct 90 11:16:44 PST. <9010291922.AA03071@nada.kth.se>
Status: RO

Sounds great Ed,

I exported all the Fanti from that stack and converted it via Fung Fung
Lee's and Ricky Yeung's HC-converter (You can update it for direct
conversion from BIG5 to HGB by using the 'edited' tables from the HCu release
(HC-convertor for Unix by Ricky Yeung) then ran it through Ed's
Clipborad Magician another truly great gem from Ed ;-)  !

Then I imported it to the Fanti version of the stack and converted
it to HyperCard 2.0. It really works very well and I really like
that when one is running the resources for both systems one can have
both forms of characters.Fongti for the HGB-system and Kai for the
BIG5 system looks really beutiful! So Ed my question is are you planning to
combine the two stacks ? At the moment my combined stack takes 3.5 meg but
there are still some info embedded in the Jianti-stack that I guess I
should dig out? The stack would be very improved by adding the cihui's from the
cihui input one should use it as a repository and if possibly do a script that
could take a list of cihui's and sort them in at the right beginning character
it would also be desirable to have cihui sorted in where the second character
matches and add them in a separate field or at the end of the list.
Supposedly there is a electronically entered Chinese-English-Chinese dictionary
entered with 225.000 + words in it but I have not been able to lay my hands on
it yet! There is also a 120.000 cihui entered by a british company ( so they
say but I have not gotten that either it is tru though as I know the woman
that did most of the inputting! There is also a 40.000 words German-Chinese
dictionary that I hope to get after signing enough license papers... Sigh!

Why is it that it seems to be the same mechanisms and sentiment and no real
different in the man who is greedy for knowledge and the man who is gready for
material wealth.......... 1/2 a :-)

(Sorry to bother you others with this note for Fung Fung Lee! Do you not get
my mail Fung Fung? It bounced several times! and I have gotten no
reply to my latest mail to you last week?)

All the best and if anyone have more information on digitized Chinese
dictionaries it would be great to know.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hatter was the first to break the silence. " What day of the
    month is it?" he said, turning to Alice: he had taken his watch
    out of his pocket, and was looking at it uneasily, shaking it
    every now and then, and holding it to his ear.
       Alice considered a little, and then said, "The fourth."
       "Two days wrong!" sighed the Hatter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*********************************************************************
* Lars E Fredriksson,   |     Email:EUNET: mrfung@nada.kth.se.      *
* Far Eastern Library   |       Telephone: Int + 46 8 666 43 94     *
* Box 163 58            | or office modem: Int + 46 8 620 45 43     *
* S-103 27 STOCKHOLM    |         or home: Int + 46 8 97 28 72      *
* SWEDEN                |   or home modem: Int + 46 8 46 15 60      *
*********************************************************************
* Be the first to support UNICODE in your neighbourhood kill ASCII  *
*********************************************************************
        "I quite agree with you," said the Duchess; "and the moral of
that is -- 'Be what you would seem to be' -- or, if you'd like it put
more simply -- 'Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it
might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not
otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be
otherwise.'"

------------OK! OK! so I went overboard with this .sig file! --------

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Oct 30 20:24:32 1990
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Date:         Tue, 30 Oct 90 17:17:15 -0800
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai%APPLE.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese electronic dictionaries
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

>All the best and if anyone have more information on digitized Chinese
>dictionaries it would be great to know.

>Fongti for the HGB-system and Kai for the
>BIG5 system looks really beutiful! So Ed my question is are you planning to
>combine the two stacks ?

The answer is not in the immediate future. One reason is that Lee Collins in
connection with the UniCode work is working on a stack that not only Big-5
and GB (I think also GB3 and 4), JIS and KIS(?? or whatever the Korean code
is called). He would release it after UniCode is done. That would be the
dictionary stack to end all dictionary stack as far as single character is
concerned. Of course it would require a multiscript system for HGB, Big-5,
Kanji and Korean, so very few people can run it.


LightRiver Information Inc
10F, No 166 FuHsin S. Rd Sec 2
Taipei Taiwan ROC
is supposed to have a HyperCard Stack with 1600 character and 16000 phrase
and all the digitized sound. I have not seen it yet. Timothy Huang who worked
on it is supposed to be working on a CD-ROM, this time it will be all those
characters on CCCII.

Panda Software, 101 Bartlett Hall, Hanover NH 03755; newmuse@dartmouth.edu
has a CDROM called Hanzi Assistant with 2500 characters, digitized sound,
animated character writing for $100. I just put in my order. They also have
a 1 disk demo version for $5 and 6 disk demo with editor for $25. It is also
a HyperCard stack.

At the extreme there is the KanjiCard project, I only see a demo two years ago.
If finished it would be used to teach non-Japanese 300 Kanji. There are
something like 600K information per character (so you think CDROM is very
big, but it can only holds 1000 characters). So under ren, there is an
animation of a person walking and then jump up spreading his legs and then
transformed into the character ren. That is why it takes up so much memory.
But it does leave a deep impression on my five years old who just started
to go to Chinese school one evening per week and just learned the character
ren.

The very fact that this group is so focused on word processing shows that
Chinese computing is still in its infancy. There are a lot of other interesting
stuff we can do in Chinese.

On the MSDOS side, there is some education software in Pacific Rim's catalog
, I think it is called ChinaEase which is quite interesting.

On the other hand, there is some eductation software from someone in Humboldt
State that cost $80, teaches about 8 characters and the graphic is so-so. If
you are so desperate to teach you kid chinese, use the money as the reward.
At $10 per character I am sure he would learn it in no time at all without
help of any software.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Oct 31 12:35:22 1990
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Date:         Wed, 31 Oct 90 12:45:13 EST
Reply-To: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huangxin Wang <wang%pennmess.physics%UPENN.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      AppleLink ftp site
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I asked this problem before, also I posted it on info-mac digest, but
surprisingly, no one know about it!  Here is the question:

*******   Where is the ftp site for AppleLink?   ***************

On D e v e l o p magazine, it says all the softwares, including the
Chinese systems, can be ftp'ed from AppleLink ftp site.  So it would be
great if we know where it is and we can keep abreast with the newest
release of Chinese system software.   I looked up and down in apple.com
(say, /pub/dts/mac, /pub/dts/sw.lisence where has all newest system
6.07 disks), there is nothing related to international systems.

Also, can we post our softwares to june.cs.washington.edu in /pub/yeung
to be shared by all other CCNetters?  What's the procedure to post?
Are there any other sites for posting Chinese softwares?  We are having
more and more softwares available now that a well-maintained fileserver
is neccesary (the maintainance including regular anouncement of new
add-in softwares, listing of all the files available, virus checking and
documentations, etc). e.g. for Ed Lai's Clipboard Magician, we can
also set up a library of CONV modules (similar to XCMD or XFCN in HyperCard)
and customized your own CM DA.   Also we can keep a library of Chinese
character fonts (bitmap ot PS).

One more question:  on Mac, you can drop in printer font (with a
LaserWriter icon) into system folder, and in case your LaswerWrite
cannot find the font in its own RAM (such as Venice), it can download
the font from the system folder.  I think it's a perfect place for
Chinese font to do that (right now, without such printer font, what you
get is screen bitmap).  Are there  any printer fonts available for
Chinese characters?  I think the printer font is in PostScript, thus it
naturally associate with the development of PS font for Chinese
characters, I am quite ignorant about what's the status it is now.


		Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Sep 16 06:08:36 1992
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Date:         Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:04:46 PDT
Reply-To: Roger Hart <hartr@NICCO.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <hartr@NICCO.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mac databases and Chinese System
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

The international version of 4D should be fully compatible
with the Chinese ScriptT/7 for System 7, according to ACIUS.
However, at $895 for version 3.0 it is rather expensive.
(Note: the US version will not even load with Chinese
resources in the System Folder).  Although the FoxPro demo
runs fine under the Chinese system, Fox technical support
states it is not compatible; under Microsoft ownership, you
can probably expect little better.  Neither of the most
popular bibliographic databases--EndNote and Pro-Cite--are
usable under Chinese, although both seem to be interested in
developing a compatible product.

I should note, though, that all of the database programs are
compatible to varying degrees, and it may be possible to find
one that suits your purpose with suitable work-arounds.

I would be interested in hearing anyone else's ideas about
using Chinese with Mac databases.  I will probably try to go
with 4D (BYTE magazine claims that they are the best database
for any microcomputer, and having looked at others, they seem
right.)

P.S.  If you are using Nisus, it doesn't matter whether the
database exports with fonts or not.  You can use a Find All
command to select the code that represents Chinese characters
by specifying the ASCII ranges--first byte is A1 to FA;
second byte is 40 to FE--and then select the font you want.

Roger Hart
UCLA

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Apr 23 10:43:03 1991
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Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 91 12:17:19 +0200
Reply-To: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung%NADA.KTH.SE@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung%NADA.KTH.SE@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: CRL cihui file
Comments: To: mleisher@NMSU.Edu
Comments: cc: zhongwen@nada.kth.se, CCNET-L@UGA.BITNET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Tue,
              23 Apr 91 02:56:56 MST. <9104230856.AA16818@NMSU.Edu>
Status: RO

Good news but there is also another concern and it applies to 'our'
cihui list as well! What constitutes a useful cihui to have in an
input-method, and how do we define a 'cihui'? Should we allow
other 'phrases' 'slogans' 'expressions'. For instance we have added
Hunan and Hunansheng and I am not sure if that is redundant or useful?
Any comments?
Like wuchanjiejiwenhuadagemning is a duanci or what or is it
wuchanjieji wenhu da geming and then we have all the expressions from the
political campains and is a wuhaoxuesheng a useful expression....

OK I'll go through some more of the list and look for debateables!

	mrfung


*********************************************************************
* Lars E Fredriksson,   |     Email:EUNET: mrfung@nada.kth.se.      *
* Far Eastern Library   |       Telephone: Int + 46 8 666 43 94     *
* Box 163 58            | or office modem: Int + 46 8 620 45 43     *
* S-103 27 STOCKHOLM    |         or home: Int + 46 8 97 28 72      *
* SWEDEN                |   or home modem: Int + 46 8 646 15 60     *
*********************************************************************
* Be the first to support UNICODE in your neighbourhood kill ASCII  *
*********************************************************************

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Jun 11 17:12:09 1991
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 Tue, 11 Jun 91 17:04:40 EDT
Date:         Tue, 11 Jun 1991 14:03:13 -0700
Reply-To: Fung Fung Lee <lee%MILO.STANFORD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Fung Fung Lee <lee%MILO.STANFORD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      HC (Hanzi Converter) Version 1.5 for the Macintosh
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

This is a software release announcement.


        HC (Hanzi Converter) Version 1.5 for the Macintosh

	A GB<->BIG5 converter for Chinese System 6.0.3

	Perhaps a belated updated version of the first GB<->BIG5
	converter since the last release of HC 1.2 in 1989.

The program "HC 1.5" is now available on the ftp site "ahkcus.org".
The pertinent file is
ahkcus.org: src/Mac/HC-1.5.hqx

	SEE ALSO

	hc, the Unix version of HC, by the same authors.


Enjoy!

Fung F. Lee and Ricky Yeung

From sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!pennmess.physics.upenn.edu!wang Fri Sep  6 00:17:13 EDT 1991
Article: 37952 of soc.culture.china
Path: sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!pennmess.physics.upenn.edu!wang
From: wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu ( Huangxin Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: 24 Jie-Qi software for Macintosh
Message-ID: <49721@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: 4 Sep 91 02:12:42 GMT
Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu
Reply-To: wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu ( Huangxin Wang)
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: pennmess.physics.upenn.edu
Status: RO

I wrote a INIT for Macintosh which display the Chinese 24 Jie-Qi when your
Mac startup.  The program runs on any system (both English or Chinese).
It is now in ahkcus.org (192.55.187.25) as file: src/mac/Ch24JieQiInit.hqx
It can be obtained by anonymous ftp.

Here is a little brief about it:

                Chinese 24 JieQi INIT

The Chinese lunar calendar has more information in it than the Western
solar calendar, 24 Jie-Qi is one example.   This INIT will display the
name of today's Jie-Qi in Chinese character when your Mac startup.
You don't need to run the Chinese OS to use it.  It work on any System.
(Though you need to understand Chinese...)

To use it, drop it into your System Folder, and restart the Mac.

(Note:  the date of the Jie-Qi is almost fixed in solar calendar with
the deviation of one of two days.  This program does not do any
elaborate calculation to get the exact date, so the turning point of
Jie-Qi may be one or two days off.)

Enjoy,

Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania


From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Sep 22 16:40:49 1992
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Date:         Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:38:51 EDT
Reply-To: Yuan Jiang <yjj@ctr.columbia.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Yuan Jiang <yjj@ctr.columbia.edu>
Subject:      XLBR Mac version
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I saw XLBR's ad in the Chinese newspaper, World Journal.
===============
XBLR MAC Version

Supports MAC Finder 6.0.7, 7.0, Mac Plus and above
PinYin or Bopomofo input
toggle change for simplified and traditional characters
all sort of fonts, sizes and styles
desktop publishing, preview
can output Chinese text to HyperCard, WordPerfect, Superpaint, etc.

Order info:
Basic, $54(+S&H$5), with character making, without publishing capability
Standard, $139(+S&H$5), with character making, publishing capability, 64x64 Son
font
Enhanced, $279(+S&H$8), with character making, publishing capability, 64x64
Song, FangSong, Kai, HaiTi font

Please specify DD or HD disk format.  Send $5 for demo version, refundable to
purchase.  Group license discount available.  Michigan resident add 4% tax.

Easternwell Technology Inc.
6448 Eagle Ridge
Kalamazoo, MI  49004
800-484-7881,7724, Fax:616-349-4601

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Sep 22 21:20:39 1992
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Date:         Wed, 23 Sep 1992 09:10:32 -0800
Reply-To: "Dr C.K. Farn" <ckfarn@IM.MGT.NCU.EDU.TW>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Dr C.K. Farn" <ckfarn@IM.MGT.NCU.EDU.TW>
Subject:      Re: input method for Mac
Comments: To: oass@OAS.UNIZH.CH
Comments: cc: CCNET-L@UGA.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

>The so-called Pinyin input-method for Chinese Script T/7 drives me to
>desperation. Does  anyone know a better method similar to Ed Lai's cihui or
>is anyone working on it?

If you are working on the BIG5/traditional character set, there is a
commercial product call Hanin (Han4in1-- Chinese pronounciation) that is
very good.  It is a prodcut by MITT -- Matsushita Institute of Technology,
Taipei.  It comes in many versions, for ChineseTalk and GE MacChina (both
for Mac) and for Eten, Han, etc. (for PC).  It lists at around NT$1800.
____________________________________________________________
Dr C.K.Farn     Information Mgmt Dept.,National Central U.,
 S   j          Chung-li, Taiwan 320, Republic of China
Tel:   886-3-426-7261,                   Fax: 886-3-425-4604
Email: ckfarn@im.mgt.ncu.edu.tw

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Oct 29 13:27:12 1992
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Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1992 13:23:16 EST
Reply-To: "(Qiru Zhou)" <qzhou@NISUS.RESEARCH.ATT.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "(Qiru Zhou)" <qzhou@NISUS.RESEARCH.ATT.COM>
Subject:      Re. ChineseTalk II
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

> I am wondering if anyone knows where the ChineseTalk II system 7 extension
> might be posted on the Internet.  I have checked june.cs.washington.edu
>might be posted on the Internet.  I have checked june.cs.washington.edu
> , where I believe it used to be posted, but I had no luck there. Thank you for
> any assistance you could give me in this matter.
I also interested in this ChineseTalk II. It was distributed by CD ROM from
Develop, a APDA magazine. I called APDA (BTW, APDA is for Apple Program
Develop Association, I think) several weeks ago. They said the old CDROMs is
out of stock. I cannot get CHTalk II from them. I think the reason is that
Apple will put non-english languages in their System 7.1 to be a commercial
product. I have a APDA CDROM in hand with CHTalk II upgrade, but it is not
a full system. Can somebody send the net the information where to get the
full CHTalk II?

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Dec 14 12:00:51 1992
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Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 09:16:29 -0800
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      HyperCard stack for learning Chinese
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I got this in the mail

A "Multimedia Chinese Reader For Advanced Students, Part one" is an
integrated set of HyperCard stacks designed as a self-study, multimedia
text for use on an Apple Macintosh computer by advanced students
learning Chiese. Using both traditional, non-simplified characters and
simplified characters, the reader provides facsimile, authentic, everyday
Chinese reading materials of the kinds that literate Chinese in China,
Taiwan, Hong Kong and Chinese communities in the USA might see daily.
The mulitmeida Chinese Reader was created by Dartmouth College Asian
Studies Professor Hua-yuan Li Mowry, with funding from the Consortium
for Language Teaching and Learning and is distributed Software on eight
800K diskettes in compressed format.

A multimedia Chinese reader for advanced computer with a hard disk and
at least 2M of RAM. It reqires HyperCard 2.1 or higher, System 6.05 or
higher, and at least 12000K free Hard disk space.

It is available for $45 (shipping by 1st class US mail included) from
Panda Software, P.O.Box 984, Hanover, NH 03755

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Dec 23 00:10:53 1992
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:07:07 -0800
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Cihui WS for Mac System 7.1
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Cihui WS is the system 7.1 WorldScript version of the Cihui input method in 6.0.
This is considered to be a "quick port". The goal is not a fully polished input
system 7.1 savvy input method. Rather I try to have a transistional program
usable in system 7.1 so that I can take my time to develop the real successor
to 6.0 Cihui.

Cihui is available for ftp from ftp.apple.com. It is in the directory
/pub/lai/cihui. The application and release note is in app.sit.hqx. The
current version is 1.0d9. This will be updated periodically as new
version comes out. misc.sit.hqx are files that will be updated infrequently.
The dict directory contains the dictionary for use of the input methods.
Right now the two dictionaries represent the same data as the system 6
cihui. New dictionary will be add to this directory later.

The installation of Cihui WS is very different from system 6 Cihui or any
other system 7.1 input method. So make sure you read the release note first.

I think the Chinese script system is available from the developer CD.
Or you can get it from Asia. Otherwise I really don't know how you can
get the 7.1 Chinese system.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Jan 29 05:34:47 1993
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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1993 02:36:16 PST
Reply-To: XIAODONG CHEN <xchen@TERAPIN.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: XIAODONG CHEN <xchen@TERAPIN.COM>
Subject:      MacGB2PS uploaded to ifcss.org
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

To all those who replied my last post, I have uploaded MacGB2PS, the Mac
version of GB2PS, to ifcss.org in its incoming directory.  I suppose somebody
in charge there will put it in the right place.  There are two files,
compressed and binhexed, one is the program MacGB2PS itself and the other
"cover.ps" the same as in the original GB2PS package supplied by W.Sun, which
is a cover page for the HXWZ.  You will need to download at least one font
file, the csong24.ccf from ifcss.org's font directory to use with MacGB2PS.
Put csong24.ccf (and other ccf fonts you had) and cover.ps in the same folder
as MacGB2PS.
A few word about MacGB2PS: it was compiled under Think C 5.0.4 and it requires
system 7 and later.  It supports drag and drop, which is the easiest way to use
it.  I have not written any document about it, but I think it's pretty straight
forward.  If you have any questions and bug reports, please e-mail me.  To
print out the postscript files, you need a font downloading utility program
like the LaserWriter font utility, which comes with you system disk, and a
postscript printer (or at least a postscript print driver).

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Feb  7 19:00:45 1993
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Date:         Sun, 7 Feb 1993 19:57:42 -0500
Reply-To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Chinese publishing - mac
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

This is my opinion: I have no actual experience on some of these things.

Worldscript, yet to be publicly released by Apple, is the only way that
I know to get System 7.1 to process Chinese language. No system
switching is needed when you use Worldscript in System 7.1.

No Beijing version of system 7.0 was released.  ChineseTalk II was only
released for Taiwan version (1.0 for 7.0, 1.1 for 7.0.1).

Worldscript supports TrueType Chinese fonts (PostScript or Truetype is
needed for laser quality printout). Several complications are raised for
Worldscript. 1. Availability: most people would have to wait until Apple
officially release it to the market. "Under the table" deals exist in Taiwan,
not sure it is also the case in the Mainland. 2. No input modules are
officially released either. This may be solved by getting Ed Lai's beta
version of Cihui input from Apple public ftp site; 3. Difficulty in getting
Chinese Truetype fonts.  Some companies in Taiwan are to release TT fonts,
but most of them will be in traditional styles.

As of dtp software, as long as Chinese Pagemaker is compatible with system
7.1, it should not have any problem with worldscript.  One other option
should be Nisus which has quite a few layout features, and is compatible
with Chinese scripts.

Besides those that are available in the US, Hua-yuan Technology (or Micro-
Macro as they used to call themselves) of Beijing Xisi Beidajie may have
something useful. They developed a simple WP program (Xiao Maque) a few yrs
ago that supports HGB coding. It was saidthat they also have a dtp
package for the mac.  No info regarding the availability of TT fonts in
Beijing is heard.

Mr. Wang Hao-yang of Pai Technology (Taiwan) may help to provide more info
regarding WorldScript and TTfonts, his e-mail address is hywang@apple.com

Feel free to correct me if anyone knows more in this area...

Jack

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Apr 21 22:21:56 1993
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Date:         Wed, 21 Apr 1993 20:17:29 PDT
Reply-To: Xiaodong Chen <xchen@ZEN.HOLONET.NET>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Xiaodong Chen <xchen@ZEN.HOLONET.NET>
Subject:      A new Hanzi viewer for Mac
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Dear Mac users on the net, I am going to upload a new hanzi viewer for Mac
Plus and above, called MacViewHZ.  This small program is very similar to
the "MacHanzi" program in function, ie. it will let you view and print
Chinese text files encoded in either GB or BIG5 format, without Chinese OS
system.  The main advantage of MacViewHZ over MacHanzi is that MacViewHZ
has a vertical scroll bar control and it let you scroll a long file, such
as HXWZ, just like you would do in a word processor.  You can scroll line
by line or screen by screen, or simply drag the control to anywhere you
desire.  You now can see the end of a long file right away without having
to go through all the screens from the beginning of the file.  MacViewHZ
can also print GB files in 24 by 24 font, which has about the same quality
as that of postscript files, from MacGB2PS for example, and you don't need
postscript printer to print under MacViewHZ.
You will need to ftp tow 16 by 16 font files "cclib.16" and "chinese.16"
from ifcss.org.  Make sure you have the exact name and put them in the
same folder with MacViewHZ.
If you have any problems or suggestions, e-mail me.

X. Chen
4/21/93

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Apr 28 11:34:33 1993
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Date:         Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:30:06 -0400
Reply-To: "Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Brief review of the MacViewHZ program
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Here's my comments on the new MacViewHZ program.

1. It looks like a re-write of the MacHanzi program: all the menu structure
resemble MacHanzi, except that it has removed a few features: MacHanzi allows
both horizontal and vertical views, MacViewHZ only allows horizontal view;
MacHanzi has an option of loading GB or BIG5 dict in the menu, MacViewHZ does
not; MacHanzi has commands to view "next" "previous" screen, MacViewHz has a
scrollable window so it omitted those screen options.

2. Featurewise I like the new program a lot better. The window size is no
longer fixed, and the program is system 7 compatible (I tested it on a 19"
Radius monitor on a IIci. System 7.1). The scroll feature is a lot more
Mac-ish than its predecessor. However, the same feature replaced the vertical
display capability which may be a good one for big5 users (to me it's no big
deal, I never use vertical display anyway).

3. Overall, this program is a lot better than its predecessor. I have success-
fully printed the sample GB file based on the new 24 pt lib. However, this is
a major omission from the Readme doc that came with the package.

The truth is, the cclib.16 you get from the ftp site or from the MacHanzi
package will not allow high quality printing - the program won't look at the
newziku.24.

To make the program use the 24 pt Ziku, one has to change the file CREATOR of
the cclib.16 to HZVW (so the file TYPE is ZIKU, CREATOR is HZVW). At least that
was how I got the program to utilize the 24 pt ziku.

Here's my procedure:
1. Copy the cclib.16 from the MacHanzi package to the MacViewHZ Folder;
2. Chang the file CREATOR to HZVW (so it's the same as newlib.24);
3. Open the gb file;
4. Display at 50%;
5. Print.

I hope this hint would be helpful to people with MacHanzi in hand. If you will
have to ftp the cclib.16, you need to set the file TYPE and CREATOR to get the
hight quality printout. TYPE: ZIKU; CREATOR: HZVW

Still, I wish to give the author my ovation for the good job.

Jack

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Apr 28 13:37:18 1993
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Date:         Wed, 28 Apr 1993 14:18:30 EDT
Reply-To: Morten Schlutter <SCHMORA%YALEVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Morten Schlutter <SCHMORA%YALEVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese on new Macs
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

There have been several people on the net asking about this, latest Hartmut.
All the newly released Macs require system 7.1 (not 7.0). I.e. Powerbooks 160,
165, 180, Color Classic, LCIII, Vx, Centris and Quadra (I am not sure about
the 950). The only way to get Chinese on these machines is to use Worldscript,
the old stuff will not work, not the stuff for system 7.0 either. However, the
old fonts can still be used.
   The Classic II, LCII and PB 145 of the present line can still run system
7.0, but only the LCII can run system  6.07 (nothing earlier such as 6.05).
   Of the older machines the IIsi will also not run anything earlier than
system 6.07, all the other machines as far as I know will run any version of
6.0.
   Worldscript and the extensionsfor Chinese can be found on some of the
recent developers' CDs, but apparently Apple now has taken them all of, maybe
in preparation for selling them commercially.
   If you have the extensionsalso get Ed Lai's CihuiWS. It is a great input
device for both simplified and traditional characters.
                          ---Morten

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Apr 28 15:29:28 1993
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Date:         Wed, 28 Apr 1993 16:12:03 EDT
Reply-To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese 7.1
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

One can find a beta version of Simplified Chinese 7.1 on the April World
System Software CD-ROM disk; this is NOT the Develop CD-ROM disk, one has
to register at APDA as a certified developer for some $300. If Chinese
is all you want, it might be better to wait until Apple publishes commercially
the Chinese language module: the Japanese one, just made avialable, costs
$249; I expect the Chinese ones to be cheaper (less fonts). Good news:
it's really a big improvement over 6.0.7.

Traditional Chinese is not even at the official beta-stage yet; it will
incorporate Panasonic Hanin input however, so that's an improvement as well.

I do expect a great difference between those products which will be 100%
WorldScript compatible, and those which will not. For the moment, the star
is Nisus, which has a full multilingual version 3.4 which even has language
specific features as kashida's for Arabic, furigana for Japanese, etc.
As they say in their manual, Chinese and Thai-specific feautures are still
lacking, and can only be added after Apple makes the Chinese language modules
officially available; they will appear however. Other programs are compatible
but do not support inline input; yet others (Microsoft Word...) are only
for the patient.

Martin Heijdra, Gest Oriental Library, Princeton University

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Apr 30 05:35:16 1993
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Date:         Thu, 29 Apr 1993 22:09:02 LCL
Reply-To: Andy Nulman <Andy.Nulman@CHOWDA.SBS.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Andy Nulman <Andy.Nulman@CHOWDA.SBS.COM>
Organization: ChowdaNet BBS, Providence RI USA
Subject:      Simpl. characters on Mac
Comments: To: CCNET-L@UGA.UGA.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

To Hartmut and all friends here:

One excellent program which will produce Simplified Chinese on the Mac
is called MISHU  (i.e. "secretary").
   It takes up very little memory and works in both system 6 and 7.
The author is Zane Pan, who came to Cambridge, USA as a graduate
student and developed it as a DA under System 6.
   Now the small company has moved to Singapore, but they still provide
an excellent and quite fast little program at a great price.

  Many friends have asked me for a copy of this program, but I hate to
see piracy hurt a small company with a great product.  The product costs
around US$90, and if you have a student ID, you can get it for $59.
This price is a steal!  If you copy it for all your graduate student
friends, though, you are stealing.

 The new address for this company is:
    XANATECH
    61 Oriole Crescent, Suite 1
    Singapore 1128
tel (65) 224-4073
fax (65) 223-8324

 The simplied version of the program is caled Wuhan 2.0. It has a
limited character set, I believe.  The Suzhou 3.0 has a larger
character set (more than 3755).  And for all you Taiwan lovers,
purists, HKers, historians, and revolutionaries, there is Tainan 2.0
with classical Chinese.

  Now a plug for myself:  I am a 25-year old college grad with a
background in manufacturing and experience in marketing, fluent in
Mandarin, and a Chinese high-technology evangelist.
   I'm looking for a position with a joint-venture or developing
company in mainland China.  Willing to relocate within U.S. or China.
    Please contact me at:
Andy Nulman c/o
TRADEX SERVICES, INC.
PO BOX 1328
PAWTUCKET RI 02862-1328
U.S.A.
tel (401) 728-5200
AT&T fax mail (314) 298-8010
     (at voice prompt, enter mailbox # 99-88-77-66-55)
e-mail: andy.nulman@chowdanet.uucp.risc.net or
andy.nulman@chowdanet.sbs.com

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Apr 30 14:56:16 1993
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Date:         Fri, 30 Apr 1993 15:54:18 -0400
Reply-To: Liedong Zheng <lz@FLYNN.CHEM.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Liedong Zheng <lz@FLYNN.CHEM.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mishu (Mac)
Comments: To: GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

>
>If anybody can provide more detailed info regarding this program, I am sure
>many will feel grateful.
>

I dig out this intro from archive, FYI

-------------------------------included---------------

 Mishu-Wuhan Demo 2.0 is a DA and extension with a set of fonts that allow one
to paste Chinese characters as text or pictures into other applications such
as Microsoft Word, MacWrite, Hypercard, Word Perfect or any application that
accepts Apple's standard Styled Text or Pict clipboards. Chinese Word or
MacWrite documents can be imported into PageMaker and QuarkExpress. It will
work under System 6.0.7 or 7 and best of all, you do not need to have Apple's
ChineseTalk System installed! Printing is very slow on postscript
laserprinters, but only slightly longer than normal on quickdraw printers
such as the Imagewriter, LaserWriter LS, Sytlewriter. Faxing documents is
also quite fast. The method of character selection is similar to ChineseTalk
via pinyin. The only difference bewtween this demo and the full version is
only the characters up to the pinyin "feng" are here.

The DA will not work properly unless both the fonts and extension are
installed and the System restarted. The demo guide is in Word Format.
You can open it with MacWrite, Microsoft Word or any other word processor
that can handle that format by first opening the application and selecting
Open from the file menu. Choose the Guide when the get file dialog appears.
Instructions on ordering the full version are included in the READ ME
FIRST document and demo guide.


Mishu was given a four and a half mice rating by MacUser magazine in 1989.


-------------------------end--------------------------

interested users can ftp its demo from 36.44.0.6:info-mac/demo/mishu-20.hqx.

I have a few more comments on that:

[1] It can input simplified and traditional chinese into your text editor,
mishu's buffer window can hold about 10 characters, it has pinyin input
method. It meets the basic needs of editing chinese, but don't expect too
much from it.

[2] In its pict mode, you can save your document, and fax it by a fax modem,
because, at least for my modem, the fax app can only recognize plain text
and pict, and mishu text format is NOT plain text.

[3]It has sort of odd coding scheme, the document can not be read by a GB
viewer, nor on a mac Chinese OS, so it can not be shared by other platforms.

all in all, if you just need to edit chinese text, it is not a bad option
regardless of the price :-), but if you would share your text electronically,
try something else.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Liedong
p.s. since mishu DA acts as a buffer, your word processor decides how big
your document can be, not necessarily < 32K.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu May 13 20:29:00 1993
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Date:         Thu, 13 May 1993 20:26:06 CDT
Reply-To: Ryan Boynton <boy2@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ryan Boynton <boy2@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cihui and WS II on Macintosh
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

On May 13, Roger Hart wrote:

> I have been unable to get Cihui 1.0d9 to run with WorldScript II
> (traditional characters) installed into System 7.1 (U.S. version)
> on my SE/30. The input window will not appear, and the application
> crashes when I change to another script or input method.
>
> I believe that my installation was correct--I installed Cihui by
> dragging the application, dictionaries and extensions to the
> System Folder 7.1, restarted, started Cihui by drag-and-dropping
> the big5.dict onto the Cihui application, and then choosing the
> Cihui option from the keyboard menu.
>
> Any suggestions??
>
> Roger Hart
> UCLA History

Ed Lai could probably give you the definitive response, but here's
what I've learned through trial and error.  (I'm running system 7.1
with WorldScript II using the traditional Chinese script on a IIci.)

Whenever you want to install or remove any files that WorldScript is
using or will use (script files, input methods), you must first keep
WorldScript from loading by restarting the machine with the shift
key down (turning off all extensions).  This is true also when
installing or removing any of the NFNT font files that go in the
font folder (though this doesn't seem to be an issue for the Chinese
character bitmap files -- just stick those loose in the system
folder).  I tried moving fonts around without disabling WorldScript
and corrupted all the fonts that were installed.  You will also
notice that you cannot remove the Chinese script file from the
system suitcase unless you disable WorldScript -- the icon does not
even appear once WorldScript is enabled.

With regard to your specific problem, the two system extensions
Cihui Big5 and Dummy Big5 need to be installed when WorldScript is
disabled.  These are the only two files that need to be put into the
system folder.  The Cihui application and the Big5 dictionary can be
anywhere you like, though they should be together in the same
folder.  I had the same symptoms you've described when I first tried
to install Cihui.  It now works, though some of the features (such
as bringing the pronunciations of already entered characters into
the input window via the clipboard and the automatic entering of
pinyin) I have only gotten to work in very strange ways.  (These do
not work at all with MS Word, which is not a surprise).

I have also experienced another problem, which may be the one you
mention, where the system hangs on startup if I try to switch the
primary script from Roman to Chinese *when Cihui is installed*.  If
Cihui is not installed switching seems to work fine.  (Switching to
Chinese as the primary script seems to have the advantage that the
text handling routines are slightly different, so that it is much
easier to write routines that manipulate Chinese text in HyperCard.)
I have no answer for this one.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

Hope this helps.

Ryan Boynton
Anthropology
University of Chicago

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat May 29 11:27:56 1993
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Date:         Sat, 29 May 1993 12:02:28 EDT
Reply-To: Morten Schlutter <SCHMORA%YALEVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Morten Schlutter <SCHMORA%YALEVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Mac vs PC
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Probably one of the reasons that Chinese for PCs come up so often on this net
is that there seems to be a host of problems in getting things to work,
printing files etc. I have used a Mac for about four years with modern and
traditional Chinese and Japanese, all of which I can switch between just by
the click of a mouse. I never had any serious problems.
    My first set-up was a Plus with four MB and a combination of trad. Ch.
6.05 updated with modern Ch. 6.07 and Jpanese 6.07, with an English OS 6.08 on
top of it all so that the finder would be in English. ----Now I am using a
IIsi with 7.1 worldscript, and now it is even easier to combine the languages
I use. I never have any problems with printing, both bitmapped and TrueType
fonts work really well and look beautiful on my LW LS. The only problem is
that I have not been able to find high definition fonts for simpl. Ch., so
there the printed text isn't great. The Chinese works great with MS Word, but
even better with Nisus or WordPerfect 2.1.3. The Japanese only works well with
the last two.
    Unfortunately, Chinese Worldscript extensions for 7.1 are not easy to come
by. Some earlier developers' CDs had them, but they seem to have been taken
out of later disks. Apple might sell the in the future.The 6.0x Asian systems
are  included on many older developers' CDs. And no matter what system you use,
you will want to get a copy of the appropriate Cihui input method, available
from several sites.
    Since all the stuff I have this far was free, the slightly higher price of
a Mac over a clone PC is easily compensated for. And it works!

            Morten

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat May 29 16:04:51 1993
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Date:         Sat, 29 May 1993 17:02:36 -0400
Reply-To: "Ned S. VanderVen" <nsv+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Ned S. VanderVen" <nsv+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mac vs PC
Comments: To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L
          <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@psuvm.psu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <Added.wg1suh_00Udb49oE5r@andrew.cmu.edu>
Status: R

Excerpts from mail: 29-May-93 Mac vs PC by Morten Schlutter@PSUVM.P

> I have used a Mac for about four years with modern and traditional
> Chinese and Japanese, ... I never had any serious problems.
> My first set-up was a Plus with four MB and a combination of trad. Ch.
> 6.05 updated with modern Ch. 6.07 and Jpanese 6.07, with an English OS
> 6.08 on top of it all so that the finder would be in English. ----Now I
> am using a IIsi with 7.1 worldscript, and now it is even easier to
> combine the languages I use.
> ....
> Since all the stuff I have this far was free, the slightly higher price
> of a Mac over a clone PC is easily compensated for. And it works!

Oh lucky Morten! What he says is undoubtedly correct, but it is largely
irrelevant for someone who has tried to get started with Chinese word
processing on the Mac during the last year, particularly if they have
one of the newer machines. Morten was fortunate to have started several
years ago when the 6.0x operating systems were widely available by
anonymous ftp, but these operating systems were removed from essentially
all anonymous ftp sites about a year ago, and are now available only
commercially unless one somehow has access to some of the older
developers' CDs.

And even if one has the 6.0x Asian systems, they will not run on the
latest Macs, e.g. Classic II, Color Classic, Powerbooks, Quadras, LC
III, and Centris, which will not operate on any OS less than System 7.

> Unfortunately, Chinese Worldscript extensions for 7.1 are not easy to come
> by. Apple might sell them in the future.

Indeed! Without the right connections it is extremely difficult to
obtain the Chinese Worldscript 7.1 extensions that appeared for a while
on the developers' CDs. Apple does plan to sell Chinese Worldscript
eventually, or so I was told in a recent telephone conversation with an
Apple representative, but he was absolutely noncommittal when I asked
him when it would be available. Until it is, Chinese wordprocessing in
the manner that Morten describes is essentially impossible on the newer
Macs, and will require some, perhaps considerable, expense, on older
machines.

Until the Chinese Worldscript extensions appear, the only option for the
newer Macs is Xia4 Li3 Ba1 Ren2, and even that does not run on Quadras.
I don't know whether it runs on the LC III or Centris. Does any one on
this newsgroup know?

Chinese word processing on the Mac, particularly the newer ones, is not
the paradise Morten describes but is more aptly characterized by the
post that preceded his:

Excerpts from mail: 29-May-93 Macintosh vs PC by RODNEY@RIVENDELL.OTAGO.A

> What a mess. ... Surely
> what is needed is simplified and traditional Chinese WorldScript Language
> Kits, analogous to the WorldScript kit that is now available for Japanese,
> but there is no word of when this might happen. I am starting to wonder if
> the Mac is the wrong choice when it comes to working with Chinese,
> especially given that it hardly ever comes up for discussion on this list.

Right you are, Rodney. It may be a good choice someday, but just now it
is, as you say, a mess.

Ned S. VanderVen
Dept. of Physics
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15217

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat May 29 23:14:13 1993
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Date:         Sun, 30 May 1993 16:15:40 GMT+1200
Reply-To: rodney@otago.ac.nz
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: rodney@SAURON.OTAGO.AC.NZ
Organization: University of Otago
Subject:      Mac's and CHinese
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

In reply to Ned VanderVen and others:

PLEASE NOTE: My email address has been incorrectly set on the postings,
address all email to: rodney@otago.ac.nz

Thanks for your postings, the responses confirm a lot of what
I suspected, and thanks for your observations Ned with regard to
incompatability with newer model Macs (of which I am well aware, although I
forgot to mention so in my origonal post).  Incidentally you are wrong over
one thing, you can run system 6 on at least some of the newer machines (such
as the PowerBooks etc) but you need system 6.0.8L the existance of which
Apple is sometimes reluctant to admit, however I have a copy and it does
work! Chinese Simplified is, of course, 6.0.7...

Ryan Boynton comments: "There is a simplified character WorldScript for
>system 7.1 and it certainly makes it nice combining the two (traditional
>and simplified), especially for language instruction materials.  There are
>also conversion routines to move back and forth between GB and Big5 codes,
>as well as Hz to GB, GB to Hz, and GB to pinyin." Thanks for this, I should
have checked this software out earlier.  What WordProcessor are you using
under the new system 7.1 setup, Nisus 3.4?

Ned commented on the Xia4 Li3 Ba1 Ren2 package, I see that this is available
from Cheng and Tsui Company in three different versions (25 West Street,
Boston Massachusetts 02111 fax 617 426-3669. As an aside they have an
excellent catalogue of Chinese and Japanese computer software, books, video
tapes/laser disks can CALL materials available on request.) the advanced Mac
version costing $279.  Is it worth it? or should I just hold out for the
promised elusive new system software...I ask this because I have already I
spent $375 to get a copy of 6.0.7 simplified Chinese (soon to become
obsolete), and $250 to get a copy of ChineseTalk II (which only runs with
7.0.1, and also soon to be obsolete) and $2500 to get TurboWriter simplified
and traditional word processors (Nisus 3.4 lacked some features we needed).
Nodoubt when the new 7.1 traditional and WorldScript (simplified) is
released I will have to pay again to get these.  What really annoys me is
that cannot even buy a Macintosh on which the presently available software
will run. The Chinese lecturer for whom all this software is being bought
doesn't have a computer, I would like to order an LCIII, but the software
won't run on it. In short, not the best time to be setting a Mac up to
comprehensively handle Chinese. The only other option I am willing to
consider is a IIci, and these are no longer available in NZ. Ned, or anyone
else, if you are in touch with Apple insiders please pass these gripes on!

Incidentally, while we are on the subject of Macs, there is an excellent
colourized HyperCard chinese character tutoring program available from IPACE
in Australia, called MacZi.  They have really done a good job (although this
comment is only based only on my assessment of their demo version).  The
program teaches "the first 600" chinese characters and uses lots of
digitized sound (over 25 MB).  Costs? $500 ( Australian dollars) for a
single copy 1,200,2000,2500 for 5,10,20 unit site licences respectively.
(fax 2 662 6566).  They have a demo disk which they will send out if
requested.
************************************************
Rodney Tamblyn
(CALL Consultant)
Computer Services/Language Learning Centres
University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.

rodney@otago.ac.nz
ph 03 479 7580 /messages 479 8559  /fax 479 8577
hm 03 473 0564
************************************************

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon May 31 14:37:32 1993
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Date:         Mon, 31 May 1993 15:33:16 -0400
Reply-To: "Ned S. VanderVen" <nsv+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Ned S. VanderVen" <nsv+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Pressuring Apple
Comments: To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L
          <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@psuvm.psu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <Added.0g2Y0IK00Udb0F1k4I@andrew.cmu.edu>
Status: RO

Excerpts from mail: 31-May-93 Pressuring Apple by Ryan Boynton@MIDWAY.UCHI

> My question is what would be the most effective way to apply pressure?  Does
> anyone know the *right* number to call or person to contact? ... I would at
> least be interested to know Apple's philosophy behind their stalling the
> introduction of the Chinese systems in the American market.

For those who might like to try calling, I will pass on to you some
information that I was given recently by Edwina Riblet of Nisus:

"Although Nisus has Chinese language capability, Chinese is one of those
languages that Apple prefers to release itself. I have an Apple Information
number for general script questions, but I think you might need to know more,
so I'll give you another number as well.

"general info: 800-776-2333
more specific: Ker Gibbs at 408-862-2992"

I don't know about the first name "Ker", but that is what she sent me.

Ned S. VanderVen
Dept. of Physics
Carnegie Mellon University

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Jun  2 16:52:54 1993
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Date:         Wed, 2 Jun 1993 17:51:17 -0400
Reply-To: "Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Fonts for Worldscript (Mac OS 7.1)
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Kevin F. Miller <kmiller@psych.uiuc.edu> worte:
>Subject: Fonts for simplified Chinese 7.1

>I have recently installed the simplified Chinese 7.1 OS from the
>Developer CD.  It only includes a single font (Beijing 16).  I need
>some other font sizes for an experiment we're running.

>   Will fonts from the old 6.0.5 OS work?  I haven't been able to get
>them to work, but I may not have done the right thing.

Yes the fonts for previous OS do work with the Worldscript system. The system
extension "BackInputSupport" provides that function. For the cited purpose,
I would go with the 48 pt fonts that came with ChineseTalk 6.0.x.

1. Use Font/DA Mover to copy the Chinese font suitcase out of the System 6.0.5
   file, save as seperate files;
2. Drag the suitcase onto the System Folder icon of 7.1;
3. Drag the font (ziku) files (Song, Kai, etc) onto the System Folder icon;
4. Restart the mac.

Hope this will work...

Jack

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Jun  3 16:58:02 1993
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Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 17:50:35 -0400
Reply-To: Thomas Bartlett <BARTLETT%HUSC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Thomas Bartlett <BARTLETT%HUSC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: BoPoMoFo printed along with characters
Comments: To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Yes, that's right.  I was just preparing to correct my earlier message
when I read Ed Lai's message. Turbowriter is called Tong1 Bo2 in Chinese
(jiaotong de tong, boai de bo). We got a copy from Pacific Rim Connections.
Brushwriter will print tone marks over pinyin (on the PC) in case you are
interested. T. Bartlett

On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, Ed Lai wrote:

> >I believe that one of the MAC programs will do that.  It might be MISHU,
> >or Chinese Talk.
>
> It is TurboWriter.
>
> /* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
> /* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
> /* Apple Computer, MS37-AS                                     */
> /* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
> /* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
> /* (408)974-6272                                               */
> zW@h9cOi

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sun Jun  6 21:32:32 1993
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Date:         Sun, 6 Jun 1993 22:31:56 -0400
Reply-To: "Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Z. Sun" <GR4486%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Macintosh program (Editers for Chinese)
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

If you don't want to spend big money on WordPerfect 2.1.3 or Nisus 3.4 for
Chinese word processing, or if you don't care the fancy style/layout features
of those programs, there are quite a few free/sharewear programs available
for Chinese script display/input (and Chinese character output).

My current favorate is TexEdit (1.8.x), a System 7 savy program that allows
multiple styles of TEXT. Lots of good features, such as variable fonts/sizes
and styles (plain, bold, italic, underline, outline, shaddow). It works with
both the simplified and traditional Chinese systems (one key stroke equals
one Chinese character when using the cursor keys and delete key). Document
will retain the font/size/style info if reopened with the same program. But
the file type of the documents is TEXT, so they can be opened with many other
WP programs and editers.

Many other TEXT editers also support the two-byte language scripts. Examples
include QRead DA, miniWriter DA, MacSink, FlashWriter, etc. etc.
If you have the Chinese operating system installed, all of these programs
support Hanyu Pinyin input method.

Jack Z. Sun

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Jun 11 16:50:06 1993
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Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 17:47:31 -0400
Reply-To: Liedong Zheng <lz@FLYNN.CHEM.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Liedong Zheng <lz@FLYNN.CHEM.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      announcement of a freeware mac program
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Dear netters:

Ever getting tired staring at a chinese text on a screen or
on a printout? Here is an alternative :-)

Mandarin is a small Macintosh freeware program I wrote in the
past few weeks. It reads in a  Chinese (GB/BIG5 coded) text,
and *speaks* out mandarin through  Macintosh's speakers loudly. :-)
You can enjoy listening to mandarin chinese as you could a radio,
and better yet, Mandarin can run in the background, while
you are working on your term paper, viewing an image, or whatever
you feel like :-) It is also helpful for those who would want to
learn how to speak mandarin chinese, just run Mandarin in background,
and use any Chinese viewer in the front to display the characters.
This program is also a good tool for proofreading.
No special hardware is needed on your mac, just double-click, and
have fun.

Chinese OS is NOT required.

The program is uploaded to ifcss.org:software/mac/sound/mandarin.hqx
as well as  on cnd.org:pub/software/mac/sound/mandarin.hqx.
Mac users please read the readme file for more info on these two
sites BEFORE downloading.

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out one
interesting fact that seems to be neglected, or not very well
appreciated in this list.  Chinese computing does have some
peculiarities in that programmers have to deal with double byte
characters,  8-bit transfer on networks, and Chinese input
method is more complicated than English input method where
there are only 26 English letters that comprise of tens of
thousands of words. However, although there are about 12,000
chinese characters(Xin1 Hua2 Zi4 Dian3), and >370,000 entries in,
Han4 Yu3 Da4 Ci2 Dian3, there are only about 400 chinese phones,
and that number is <1300 if different tones are considered, this is
certainly more advantageous than the situation in English world
where almost every word has a unique pronunciation, and this
makes sound chinese computing more feasible than its
English counterpart. I wish there will be more people who
appreciate this fact and explore in this field. I also wish
there will be a chinese sound play program on PC before too
long. :-)


Acknowledgement
================

I would like to thank Jim Reekes for his DTS archive. I would
also like to thank Hua Xia Wen Zhai editorial staff for their
continuing and enthusiastic support of community service.
The publication of this magazine has substantially promoted
chinese computing in may aspects, at least it introduced me to
world of chinese computing.


Legal stuff
===========

All rights reserved. This program can be freely distributed
provided the whole package is not altered, modified in any way.
The sound.lib may not be used without otherwise the
permission from the author.

Please send your suggestions as well as bug reports to me.


*****  Sit back and enjoy!  *****


Liedong Zheng, June, 1993
lz@flynn.chem.columbia.edu

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Tue Jul 13 13:37:35 1993
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Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 1993 14:32:45 EDT
Reply-To: John Delacour <100111.3564@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John Delacour <100111.3564@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Nisus Macro
Comments: To: Chinese Computing <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

  (THIS DOCUMENT IS WRITTEN IN MONACO 9 PT AND WRAPS AFTER 78 CHARACTERS)


* * * * MOST IMPORTANT - please do not E-mail me at the above address or I
have to pay for your message.  Use that address only if you want to make me
poor!.  My cheap address is <jdelacour@cix.compulink.co.uk> * * * * * *


--------------MAINLY to Macintosh Users, but not necessarily----------------

I shall soon be posting in this forum a listing for a (Macintosh) NISUS macro
to convert PinYin to Chinput in Ed Lai's Cihui.  This will allow very rapid
conversion of the cihui from PinYin to Chinput, BUT ALSO to any other
two-character or ShuangPin input method.  At the moment that is the limit of
my objectives, but I should be happy to work on other translations/conversions
as time allows.

Once I am allowed in England to obtain the Chinese system for Macintosh System
7.1, I shall make the Chinput Cihui available for anyone who is interested.
At the moment I can't be bothered to work with System 6.0.3 and change
everything to enable me to do other work as well.

The macro for Nisus will not be a huge file, so I don't need to warn you about
the size of it, but for those of you have no use for it I warn you that it
will be quite long in the vertical sense and of no interest to anyone who is
not interested in inputting using two latin characters per zi4.  I will name
the subject CHINISMAC, so if you want to trash it without reading it, you are
warned!  Don't expect the posting tomorrow but it will be soon.


                      John

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat Jul 10 09:48:43 1993
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Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1993 07:32:17 -0700
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Cihui 1.0d10
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

A new version of Cihui WS is now available. Don't expect a major
improvement because it has been a long time. It is just that I
have not work on it for a long time. But I did manage to fix
a number of system crashing bug last week so hopefully it will
be more stable. Also the previous version has some very
peciluar problem when working with Nisus, now I think I have
get around them.

There are also some new feature, it is now text to speech ready.
Its principle is similar to Liedong Zheng's Mandarin program.
This means that you can do it provided you have the sound
resource, but I don't have any that I can distribute now. There
may be some coming in future. The total size can be about 4M, so
it is not too big for most hard disk.

The sound resource is contained in a HyperCard stack. It is meant
to be used not only by Cihui. I have a previous posting on
ZhongWen on how to have a series of Chinese tools for general
use, and this is a first attempt in providing some of these tool.

The other new feature is allowing the execution of AppleScript
from the input window. This essentially provides a message box
like the one in HyperCard in most applications. Since the output of
the execution of AppleScript goes to the document, this is also
a genuine input aid.

Cihui WS 1.0d10 is available from ftp.apple.com,
in /pub/lai/cihui. You can see from the modification date what
data has been changed. The dictionaries has also been changed,
but only the option resource has been changed. So if you have
an old dictionary, you can just copy the resources but keep the
old 'idat' resources to keep your dictionary content.

I only installed the final Chinese system about a week ago. I finally
have a chance to a quick look at the input method in the simplifed character
system. I have to admit so far I am pleasantly suprised. I wrote the input
framework for both Chinese system of ChineseTalk 1.0 and the actual
input method for the simplifed system many years ago. Since then
I am not involved in any offical way. I wrote a paper on the rules
input methods should follow to be user friendly. Most people think
that the input method on the Mac Chinese system have not improved
all these years. In fact I would say it has deterioate. Features had
in fact been removed so some of my original principle are no longer
followed. That is why I do Cihui on my own. The new simplied system
is fairly standard in its choice of input method. Pinyin or WuBi in
combination of LianXiang. However it follows all the principles I
have laid out before, so when you use it the feeling is that this is
what you expect on a Macintosh system. As for LianXiang, I was a
great fan of it when I heard about it 13 years ago. However today
it is clear that picking the first character still takes time, they
should go all the way to Cihui and use LianXiang as the dynamic display
after user input. I shall put that in a future version of Cihui.

As for the traditional system, let me just say no comment.

The Chinese 7.1 is in the developer CD, however it no longer comes
with the develop magazine. As for when Chinese 7.1 will be released
to the public, as I said I have no connection with the Chinese effort
in Apple for many years, and I really don't know, but it should be
coming.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-AS                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Jul 23 15:22:19 1993
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Date:         Fri, 23 Jul 1993 13:19:00 PDT
Reply-To: Roger Hart <hartr@NICCO.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Roger Hart <hartr@NICCO.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Chinese WorldScript 7.1 compatible software
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Does anyone have a list software that is compatible with
Chinese WorldScript 7.1?  In particular, I am looking for a
"works" integrated package (such as Claris Works or
WordPerfect Works) and a personal database manager;
shareware is also fine.  To start the list, three major
programs that are compatible:

SOFTWARE COMPATIBLE WITH CHINESE WORLDSCRIPT:
---------------------------------------------
FOURTH DIMENSION (4D) 3.0.x international version;
WORDPERFECT 2.1.3;
NISUS "Complete Flag"

PROBLEMS:
---------
WORDPERFECT: may not be compatible with Cihui;
NISUS 3.4: costs an extra $100 for the "Complete Flag"
version (i.e. the Chinese-enabled version)
and is protected by a hardware key.  Thus Nisus may not be
attractive for ordinary users (Nisus claims that most of the
bugs caused by the key are solved), even less so for PowerBook
users, and is unusable on PowerBook Duos (Nisus disagrees,
suggesting that you buy a floppy adapter and carry it around
so you can hook their hardware key into the ADB port!!).

IGNORING APPLE GUIDELINES:
--------------------------
Of more concern is developers, even including Claris, who
view implementation of Apple programming guidelines as
optional. For example, when I asked Claris whether they were
compatible, they said that they were not.  Their attitude
was not "we will fix this as soon as possible"; rather they
said they were *considering* whether or not to implement
WorldScript compatibility.  I find this shocking, given
Claris' relationship with Apple and Apple's claims about
WorldScript.  As it stands now, about half of the developers
that I have asked view implementation of WorldScript
compatibility as an "option" for consideration only.

Roger Hart
UCLA History

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Jul 26 07:55:57 1993
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Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1993 08:34:58 EDT
Reply-To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Macintosh 7.1
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Re: Roger Hart's message

As far as I know, you will NOT have to buy the key-protected version of
Nisus 3.4 for Chinese; you certainly don't need it for Japanese. The
Complete Flag edition enables Arabic and Hebrew instead; two-byte systems
fall under the Limited Flag edition. However, since Apple was very late
with providing details of its Chinese programs, Nisus is not yet "fully"
compatible with Chinese 7.1 (especially the simplified method has problems).
Those incompabilities refer to when direct inline input is used; it works
fine when that option is turned off. The other series of multilingual
software, WinText, WinFile etc., and AllScript, AllPage etc., have similar
problems as far as I can see.

There will be relatively few programs which will be "World-Script compatible"
as it is called; but it should also be pointed out, that that is NOT necessary
for a program to work. There are quite a few programs around that will accept
other script through bottom-line input. Japanese Mac magazines carry long
lists of programs and their compability; as long as they accept bottom-line
input AND (apparently a separate issue) 2-byte TrueType fonts, one could
call a program functionable.

Both in Japan and in Korea ClarisWorks 2.0 is available in a Worldscript-
compatible version (in Japanese and Korean). I think that is the real
problem: quite a few programs exist in Japanese 7.1-compatible versions,
which in principle should mean also Chinese-compatible versions; BUT the
markup of these companies is great, and they are reluctant to release that
version with English menus against a normal price. Similar considerations
apply apparently for programs as PageMaker, QuarkXPress, Fontographer etc.
etc. So, sometimes it are really market considerations, not technical
ones which makes it difficult to buy in the US what is already available.
But let's continue to push those companies, and support those who support
us and the multilingual ideal!

Martin Heijdra, Princeton University

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Aug  2 07:59:55 1993
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Date:         Mon, 2 Aug 1993 08:44:55 EDT
Reply-To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ClarisWorks
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Some people have expressed surprise at my statement, that there are
Japanese and Korean ClarisWorks available. Well, my memory was somewhat
defective it turns out, although the major points remain true. Yes, there
are localized versions of ClarisWorks available for Korean and Japanese,
but it is version 1.0, not version 2.0; GreatWorks 2.0 is available in
Japanese, hence my memory lapse. Both ClarisWorks versions are rather recent.
They are meant for HangulTalk 7.1 and KanjiTalk 7.1; I don't know whether
they support direct input though, or Chinese; but if Claris wanted to, a
Chinese version should be easy to develop on basis of these two. To be
fully WorldScript fluent however, also right-to-left scripts need to be
supported, which is yet a step further I suppose. (I occasionally read
about PRC applications -PC- which can handle Chinese minority languages
as Uyghur, Mongol, Tibetan etc. Does anybody have any news?)


As far as Windows is concerned, can Chinese, Japanese and Korean be installed
and used at the same time? What coding and fonts are there for the Chinese
version?

Martin Heijdra, Princeton University

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Tue Aug  3 18:40:44 1993
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Date:         Tue, 3 Aug 1993 16:38:22 -0700
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Cihui 1.0d12
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Cihui 1.0d12 is now on ftp.apple.com in the usual place. This version
supports a variation of LianXiang. When I first hear about LianXiang
many years ago, I was very excited about the concept. However now
I realize the idea is rather limited. Since LianXiang depends on a
phrase dictionary, then the user is better off entering the whole
phrase rather than pick the first character and depend on LianXiang
for the the list of second character. Even if user is not sure about
the spelling of the second character, the fact that there is dynamic
display of phrases make this unnecessary. However, let say you
are entering a phrase starting with yi, you know the first character
but is not sure about the second. Since yi is so common there are
too many phrases to choose, and suppose you see the first character
then picking it and depending on LianXiang to provide a list of
second characters can still be useful. However, after you pick the
second character from the LianXiang list orthodox LianXiang would
offer you another list based on the one you just pick, this is rather
silly and is almost never correct, so Cihui would not continue
down the chain.

I would put new version of Cihui on ftp from time to time, however
I would not try to announce it unless there is something interesting.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-AS                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Aug 18 08:09:21 1993
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Date:         Wed, 18 Aug 1993 08:55:59 EDT
Reply-To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      7.1/ClarisWorks
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Last time I mentioned that whatever Claris USA says, ClarisWorks
is available in Korean and Japanese, and that I wouldn't be surprised
if a Chinese version would be very easy to do. Indeed, in the
latest PCMagazine-Taiwan I have (May), there is an ad from Apple
selling hardware/software packages for very reasonable prices (I
calculate $1500 for the LCII-based package, $2100 for the IIvi based
package (incl. CDROM)). Both packages include traditional Chinese 7.1,
and, indeed, Chinese ClarisWorks. I wouldn't be surprised if in HK
or the PRC the simplified ClarisWorks is sold with the system as well.
In any case, Claris USA should be easily able to sell an English-menu,
Worldscript compatible ClarisWorks.

Martin Heijdra/Gest Library/Princeton University

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Aug 18 15:29:32 1993
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Date:         Wed, 18 Aug 1993 22:26:21 +0200
Reply-To: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung@NADA.KTH.SE>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Lars-Erik Fredriksson <mrfung@NADA.KTH.SE>
Subject:      Re: 7.1/ClarisWorks
Comments: To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@SEARN.SUNET.SE>
Comments: cc: multiplerecipientsoflistccnet-l@nada.kth.se,
          CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@SEARN.SUNET.SE
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Wed,
              18 Aug 93 08:55:59 EDT. <9308181309.AA11877@nada.kth.se>
Status: R

In a previous posting Martin Heijdra pointed out:

>Claris USA should be easily able to sell an English-menu,
>Worldscript compatible ClarisWorks.

Yes They should should they not! But the fact as I understand it is that they
*really* don't! They also should be able to have a WS compatible
FileMaker Pro but they don't do they? Well the fact is that they
have been (along with most other software-producers) ignoring
people with the absolute dayly need to process multiple scripts.

We have to face it! We have not become a large enough marketshare
yet. WorldScript is very nicely described by Apple but there is
very few working solutions available and the ones that does, only
does so if we squeze them a bit and twists their arm a little!

Sorry to be so impatient but I started saying that the mac would be the
only truely multilingual system already in 1985 and well sure sort of
impressive it must be by most californians standards! But i'm not
complaining about the long promised linelayout manager here I wan't
some basic simple wordprocessing to work and some databases not to
munger my data when I try to edit it on the scren in vernacular mode.
I think I should not have to get the monstrously timeconsuming 4th
Dimension (both when it comes to procesing data and the time it'll
take to learn to program) just to maintain some thousand records of
chinese data mixed with some japanese and korean ones.

I must say that the idea of "Language Kits" seems good but I have
had very little sucess using the Japanese+Trad Chinese+SimpChinese
+Korean on top of the International system. (B.T.W. does anyone
know why the "enter" key that used to bring up the Hanmun-candidates
in the Korean input under 6.07 does not work? Did they change it?)

And what is "input back support Tuneup!" (IBS Tuneup) What is Parrot?
from the Taiwan system. Is there any documented conflict between the
various WS-doublebyte TT-fonts using the TT-Font-Cache? I have the whole
thing running finally in a sort of workable way. 6 meg TT-fontcache.
System eats up 5,367 Kb just to boot and my systemfolder takes up
89 Megabytes on my harddisk. with very few roman fonts and only 2 different
TT-fonts for each of the two Chinese, and the Japanese and Korean scripts.

Hmm, I would be more than happy also if someone could tell me why I am
getting some lines with chinese in bold and some thin when I print
FDEF/FBIT-fonts (the old bitmapped fonts) under the WS-system. I did
not have any such problem under 6.07-systems.


Hmpf, I better stop but I feel soo grumpy! When will it finally
work properly or will it never...


I don't even dare to think when I can expect my mongolian and manchu
data to be processable in any decent "unkludgy" way   ;-)

I do run Nisus (Japanese version SoloWriter as there are really too many
problems with the dongle on the Complete Flag version and I hate to carry
it back and forth between my two machines one at the office and one at home!
What if I loose it in the bar on the way home ;-(

Then I sort of work with Filemaker Pro. I have to enter all my data in
FileMaker Plus (that is better behaved as I think it uses TextEdit-
routines (even old Microsoft File did a better job with Twobyte-scripts
than Fmkr Pro.) Then I use Hypercard a lot but it is soo sloooow.
I did convert some of my databases to Fourth Dimension but it is such
an unflexible environment.

        Keep well and please tell me what you can make work and how!
        I really hate the division whitin Apple in "national markets"
        As I feel that this is the reason we are not heading in the
        right direction. I really should not have to get a Korean
        this or a Japanese that. A Taiwanese Pagemaker with a dongle
        for this and that! Can you imagine carrying along the docking
        facility all the time just to be able to plug in different
        dongles to use some TT-fonts from Taiwan if you were smart enough
        to buy A DuoMac portable just because they "weigh so little"!!!

        Some people in the systemdevelopement group should be given
        more control and a fatter budget so they could get some truly
        multilingual systems out. And developement should be directed
        towards a world were it is acknowledged that most people will
        have to deal with several languages and therefore several scripts
        Yes I have great expectations for Unicode but will the geniuses
        software-companies excecutives allow the real genius software
        programmers to let us live in a multilingual world!

        Maby we should all switch to english instead ;-)


        I'm truly sorry for this "tirade" but I suddenly had "enough"

        You can come cry on my sholder next week...


        Lars Fredriksson  (aka mrfung)


PS. I agree that Martins postings have been much much more informative
than mine!!! ;-) I was just amazed at the fact that he seems so positive
and was curious to know how one gets that way! Hi Martin! ;-)

*********************************************************************
* Lars E Fredriksson,   |     Email:EUNET: mrfung@nada.kth.se.      *
* Far Eastern Library   |       Telephone: Int + 46 8 666 43 94     *
* Box 163 58            | or office modem: Int + 46 8 620 45 43     *
* S-103 27 STOCKHOLM    |   or office fax: Int + 46 8 678 77 51     *
* SWEDEN                |   or home modem: Int + 46 8 646 15 60     *
*********************************************************************
* Be the first to support UNICODE in your neighbourhood kill ASCII  *
*********************************************************************

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Aug 19 06:02:13 1993
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Date:         Thu, 19 Aug 1993 11:59:34 GMT
Reply-To: mus6pjn@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "P. J. Nix" <MUS6PJN@LUCS-MAC.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
Organization: University of Leeds
Subject:      Nisus
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

There has been some recent interesting discussion of Nisus here. I
use it daily and I know that people in the Dept of East Asian
Studies here at Leeds are happily using 3.01 with Kanjitalk and 3.04
with the Chinese OS. Users of this programme  who wish to complain
to Paragon about some of its more maddening features  (dongles, no
table editor,etc), or tell them how good some of its other features
are (its wonderful macro language), may be interested in the
following:

1. There is a Nisus discussion list to which you can subscribe by
sending a message to:

                listserv@syrinx.kgs.ukans.edu

             containing the line:

                SUBSCRIBE NISUS <Your name>

2. The Nisus brochure contains an e-mail address for their marketing
people:
           AppleLink: NISUS.MKTG

 Those are their capital letters. I've never tried this address.
 From the internet I think that should be:

           NISUS.MKTG@apple.com

3. But I have successfully written to:

           paragon@weber.ucsd.edu

       where I got very helpful replies, though by Fax;) , from
Edwina Riblet.

4. Otherwise they are:
           Nisus Software Inc.,
           107 S. Cedros Ave.
           Solana Beach,
           CA 92075-1912
           Voice 619 481 1477
           Fax 619 481 6154


            Let them here from us,
                  Peter

***********************************************************************
Peter J. Nix             Internet:mus6pjn@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Department of Music,     Janet:mus6pjn@uk.ac.leeds.novell.lucs-mac
University of Leeds,     Tel: 0532 332580
Leeds LS6 9JT            Fax: 0532 332586UK
***********************************************************************

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Aug 19 08:53:43 1993
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Date:         Thu, 19 Aug 1993 09:34:13 EDT
Reply-To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     Resent-From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA@PUCC>
Comments:     Originally-From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA@PUCC>
From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: 7.1/ClarisWorks
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Wed, 18 Aug 93 22:26:21 +0200
Status: R

This is in answer to Lars-Erik and John Delacour...

Personally, I do agree with some of your comments: while Apple technically is
on the right way (and have you ever tried to get ANYTHING on the PC which
comes close to a multilingual environment? It is just not there! I read
occasionally Chinese, Japanese and Korean magazines; it's just amazing how
(in the Chinese and Korean cases) much PC computer users are still quite
happy to squeeze this and no WYSIWYG etc. etc.: I think most comments on
ccnet-l just show how underdeveloped the Chinese computerworld is; you
basically have to be half a programmer to make even one script work.), it
is deficient in getting its info out timely, and developers are just not
responding.

I have the multilingual system of Apple 7.1, and find it's great, useful and
rather cheap, if one compares it with compatible (esp. TRUE scalable fonts,
not most Taiwanese substitutes) programs. HOWEVER, indeed, one wishes that
actual application developers would actually listen to Apple (and that
Apple gives the few who do, like Nisus, more info, so that there are not all
these delays and delays!)

And I think we all thought in 1985 that multilingual processing was just
around the corner; fact is, the market does not seem to support it, although
technically there are no problems. I am still waiting for a multilingual
library system to put up here; but only places like Princeton and Yale
clamor for it, and there is hardly any response.

I have had NO trouble at all putting the language kits together. Do you
really use the latest versions of all components? By trial and error
I found several things: first, really make sure that you have e.g. the
latest IBS extension (the Korean on July 93 is the latest; I think it's 1.3).
Also, the keyboard menu should, I found out, NOT be too long; when items (both
script OR keyboards OR input methods) are too many, the bottom ones turn
black instead of grey in the finder, as if they were enabled (they are not);
this can create some problems using especially Korean and Simplified Chinese
(which are at the bottom);
still, I have ALL scripts working with no problem right now after removing
some extra (Roman) keyboards.

As I said before, Simplified and Traditional Chinese have changed quite a
bit from 6.0.7 (TradChinese less so from ChineseTalk II); they are now,
I think, right on top of the mainland and Taiwanese market (Wubixing and
lianxiang in the former case). I think that especially the TradChinese could
ideally be much better; fact is, that other often-used systems as Qiyi
have led, in my opinion, the pinyin-entry based input systems into the wrong
direction. One cannot really call the program as it is now "deficient"
in comparison with other programs; but it could be better: who will
develop a Chinese kotoeri?

Korean has obviously changed a LOT. Also, there are two versions: a simple
Apple one (with NOT enter-key for characters any more; one or two-character
words are put in by moving the mouse over the hangul entries while underlined.
Elex Computer in Korean has a much better (and expensive) system, which
looks more like kotoeri, with an input menu, better choices etc.) I have found
a book explaining the Elex 7.1, but don't have the program; I have Apple's,
but no documentation yet. (One has to buy the Language Kit when available,
I suppose--yet honestly, the price for those are much less than a user on
the PC would have to pay for something comparable.) I still have no idea
how to get the extra signs, or how to use the dictionary, all things which
my book explains for Elex (none of the methods work directly with Apple's 7.1)

The FontCache works with ALL fonts, as far as I can judge from Japanese
magazines; but there is only some 300K reserved PER FONT; it is NO use
increasing the font cache size beyond that. Japanese mags suggest one clears
it first (throwing away the font cache, replacing it with an empty file,
restarting), and then type the most common characters/kana, and try
them out in different font and sizes to fill up the reserved space with
useful characters; since it is first come, first registered.

Parrot, in the Taiwanese system, is for Roman letters IN THE CHINESE
system; there are programs (badly written) which only accept one font/script,
and which don't allow you to switch to the Roman script and its fonts. Only
in those cases is Parrot (called something like "jianpan" I think on the
keyboard menu) useful and necessary.

Yes, I also had to increase my RAM and my hard disk; but with scalable
East Asian fonts, that is difficult to avoid, unless one would use stroke-
based TrueType, which apparently Windows 3.1 and DynaFont do/will do.
I wish somebody with the Windows Far East 3.1 would tell us more about it,
and its multilingual environment. (There is a nice article on Chinese
Windows 3.1 in the same PC-Magazine-Taiwan, May).

The Chinese bold/thin problem: I don't have it, and never had. Could you
tell me more? Of course, Japanese Osaka has been redesigned into a
TrueType font rather than bitmap, and is considerably bolder in its new
version.

I do not have any problems with the Nisus dongle either (while another
multilingual program with dongle, Imprint, I have not managed to start
that up even in its beta-version!). Do you have the ADB fix? There were
some problems in an early stage with several beta-Chinese versions;
but Nisus is now up-to-date unless Apple is going to change its systems
(unlikely; slated release date for Chinese Language kits: October at the
EDUCOM).

And yes, I am waiting for Mongolian and Manchu too; where did you get
Manchu fonts by the way? Probably this will finally be a TrueType GX
matter. (I had bought Imprint to get around it, since text there has
input in all kinds of ways. It never worked properly).

I TOTALLY agree that companies like PageMaker, QuarkXPress, Claris etc. should
make multilingual versions of their software; and since they ALL have
Japanese versions, it should, it should be possible. Obviously, they don't,
which is a nuisance. We should indeed not have to buy Chinese and Japanese
versions of each program!

But for the moment, I have a completely workable system with many scripts
at once, by subscribing to the Developers CD at Apple. Documentation is
(except if you're interested in developing programs rather than using
as an end-user the input methods) nonexistent until the Language Kits are
released. Nisus 3.4 works with it (the few problems I had are fixed now).
Since there are a lot of Text-Edit based non-WP programs, this multilingual
system also gets me, say, rainbow-coloured characters in Superpaint etc.

If there is anything like it in the PC environment, let me know; as of now,
Windows 3.1 seems to be a candidate, but is it really? Can it show Chinese,
Japanese and Korean on the screen at once (forget about Arabic for now)?

Martin Heijdra/ Gest Library/Princeton University

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Aug 19 11:18:05 1993
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Date:         Thu, 19 Aug 1993 12:07:59 -0400
Reply-To: ctchou@Kodak.COM
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Chun-Tzer Chou <ctchou@KODAK.COM>
Subject:      Re: Nisus
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu@Kodak.COM
Comments: cc: U791137@Kodak.COM
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

>2. The Nisus brochure contains an e-mail address for their
>marketing people:
>           AppleLink: NISUS.MKTG
>
> Those are their capital letters. I've never tried this address.
> From the internet I think that should be:
>
>           NISUS.MKTG@apple.com


To send mail from Internet to AppleLink, use the domain name
"applelink.apple.com". So it should be

        NISUS.MKTG@applelink.apple.com

Nisus also has a technical support person, Jim Bates, on Compuserve.
His address is

        75300.1243@CompuServe.COM

You'll get e-mail reply, not FAX.

One thing Nisus has not done is to support printing Chinese in
column (vertically).

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Aug 23 07:57:35 1993
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Date:         Mon, 23 Aug 1993 08:42:46 EDT
Reply-To: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Martin Heijdra <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Nisus again
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

John's message on Nisus 3.4 contained one mistake: Nisus does NOT support
vertical text, but as I said several times, it IS multilingual. The latest
version I just received of Complete Flag 3.4 (3.482 to be precise; all shipping
versions are 3.48 or higher) has indeed corrected any problem I was ex-
periencing with a very early 3.4 version.
Nisus is really fluent in Hebrew, Arabic, Korean and Japanese, to the point
of offering features special to each of these programs, e.g. special wildcards
for searching purposes. While it works fully now with the Chinese beta-versions
Nisus notified me that any additional changes (perhaps referring to these
language-specific features for Chinese) will have to wait until Apple releases
officially the final Chinese Language Kits. Apple mentioned a date of October,
at Educom.

Martin Heijdra/Gest/Princeton

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Tue Oct 19 06:13:33 1993
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Date:         Tue, 19 Oct 1993 11:44:14 GMT
Reply-To: mus6pjn@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "P. J. Nix" <MUS6PJN@LUCS-MAC.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
Organization: University of Leeds
Subject:      Macintosh Chinese Language Kit
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: cc: phy6jem@sun.leeds.ac.uk
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

The following in my mail today,
Peter

**Included stuff starts here**

Apple Announces Chinese Language Kit

Joins Japanese Language Kit in Bringing Multi-language Capabilities
to Macintosh Users

SAN FRANCISCO, California--October 18, 1993--Apple Computer, Inc.
today announced the Chinese Language Kit, a software product that
makes it easy for people to work in Chinese and English (or other
languages) on an Apple Macintosh personal computer.  The Chinese
Language Kit allows customers to input, edit, and display Chinese
characters without having to use a fully localized Chinese version
of the Macintosh operating system.  The second of Apple's language
kits, this product reinforces Apple's commitment to making the
Macintosh a global computing platform.

    The Chinese Language Kit and the Japanese Language Kit
(shipped in April 1992) are both based on WorldScript--a technology
only available with Apple's System 7.1.  WorldScript provides
system-level support for the most widely used written languages and
a unified platform on which developers can create applications for
worldwide markets.  Using the Chinese Language Kit, a Macintosh
computer with System 7.1, and any application that supports Apple's
WorldScript, customers can create documents that mix Chinese
characters with other languages supported by their system.

    "We're extremely pleased with sales of the Japanese Language
Kit, which have exceeded even our most optimistic expectations,"
said  Kirk Loevner, vice president, AppleSoft Products Group.
"We're equally enthusiastic about the Chinese Language Kit.  People
who need to  use the Chinese language on their computers are not
just in China, but all over the world.  This is an important product
for Apple, for many of our customers, and for any developer who
wants to create applications for worldwide markets."

    Language Kits are intended for customers who need to create
documents and presentations that contain multiple languages,
including professionals in multinational businesses, government, and
publishing, as well as students, teachers and others.  Apple
believes that two trends, globalization of business and the increase
of ethnic populations in the United States, may present
opportunities to expand Apple's family of language kits for the
Macintosh.

    The Chinese Language Kit works with localized applications for
Chinese and with WorldScript applications.  Many major applications,
such as WordPerfect and Nisus, take advantage of WorldScript.  The
Chinese Language Kit also supports the variety of applications that
have been localized for the Chinese market; ClarisWorks and
Canvas, for example, have Chinese versions shipping.

Product Contents and System Requirements

    The Chinese Language Kit supports both Traditional and
Simplified characters.  It includes bilingual documentation,
TrueType fonts, and a wide variety of input methods, including the
most popular--Pinyin and Zhuyin.  The Chinese Language Kit requires
a Macintosh  computer with at least 5MB of RAM, System 7.1, and a
hard disk drive with at least 10MB of storage available (17MB to
install both Traditional and Simplified characters).  Additional
TrueType fonts are contained on a CD ROM (included); in order to use
them, users will need a CD ROM drive and additional hard disk space.

Pricing and Availability

    The Chinese Language Kit is available in the United States
through Apple authorized resellers for a suggested retail price of
U.S. $249. In the United States, the kit comes with built in, up and
running support through 1-800-SOS-APPL.
    Outside the United States, the Chinese Language Kit is available
through a variety of resellers. Pricing and availability varies by
country.

-30-

Apple, the Apple logo, and Macintosh are registered trademarks; and
System 7, TrueType, and WorldScript are trademarks of Apple
Computer,
Inc.


END

Apple Press Releases
PR Express
Apple & Industry News
Newsbreak
10/18/93

**Included stuff stops here**

***********************************************************************
Peter J. Nix             Internet:mus6pjn@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Department of Music,     Janet:mus6pjn@uk.ac.leeds.novell.lucs-mac
University of Leeds,     Tel: 0532 332580
Leeds LS6 9JT            Fax: 0532 332586UK
***********************************************************************

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Nov  5 03:52:42 1993
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Date:         Fri, 5 Nov 1993 17:31:32 +0800
Reply-To: GAUTIER <gauier@CC.NSYSU.EDU.TW>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: GAUTIER <gauier@CC.NSYSU.EDU.TW>
Subject:      Japanese Word-Processor
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Hello, I just received some days ago information about
NISUS 3.4.
It could be what you need : it supports WorldScript, and any
european language (NOT only English). For the japanese, you
must however use then Apple Kanji extension. But Nisus people can
tell you how to get it.
NISUS comes in two versions : a "limited flag" edition, whichoperates
under system 6.05 or higher, works with british, english, finnish,
french, german, italian, japanese, portuguese and spanish. I have no
price.
The "complete flag" version works with more languages (Czech, Russian,
etc...) and right-to-left languages.
The requirements : from a Mac Plus on, and a hard drive is recommanded.
Completely installed, NISUS uses 2.2 Mb of your hard disk.
Ask them for  *a demo disk* ...

NISUS
107 South Cedros Avenue
Solana Beach, CA 92075-1912
tel : (619) 481 14 77
fax : (619) 481 61 54

Applelink : NISUS.MGMT

(I think you can send e-mail to APPLELINK, but I do not know HOW...
Anyone has a clue ??)

Cheers,
                  Gerard GAUTIER
                  <gauier@cc.nsysu.edu.tw>

PS - They also claim a lot of capacities I did not elaborate : columns,
macros, drag & drop, search text in non opened files etc.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sun Nov 14 09:06:28 1993
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Date:         Sun, 14 Nov 1993 07:05:20 -0800
Reply-To: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ed Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Digitized Chinese Speech file on Macintosh
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

With the release of the Macintosh speech manager there is renew
interest in text to speech software. There are also interest for the
non-English versions. However, a lot of work is needed for speech
synthesis from phoneme in any language.

And with the release of the Chinese Language Kit there will be
more interest in Chinese computing and Chinese speech.
Fortunately a special solution is possible for Chinese. There are
a limited number of sounds in Chinese. In the official dialect there
are about 1300 sounds. They are mono-syllabic and hence
relatively short, so digitized sample of all Chinese sound totals
about 15M, with 3:1 or 6:1 compression, it is down to 5M or 2.5M
which is big but is still an acceptable size. As for the text to speech
part, most Chinese character has a unique pronunciation. The Chinese
character code set has 7000/14000 characters, so it just requires a
table of 14/28K to find out the most likely pronunciation for characters
in the GB/Big5 code. So Chinese speech can be easily achieved
without the speech manager.

So Chinese text to speech is in theory easy to do by brute force.
Of course it helps if the sound files are available.

Chinese Pronunciation Tool is a HyperCard stack. It is a container for
1289 digitized Chinese sound stored as 'snd ' resources. The data are
provided by the authors of Hanzi Assistant. The file size is 5M.
These sounds represents all the sounds in the official Chinese dialect.
The stack also include the table for the pronunciation of most of the
characters used in the both the traditional and simplified Chinese
system. So the stack can be used or the purpose of Chinese
text to speech. The stack can also be used as an interactive guide
to Chinese phonetics and does not require the use of the Macintosh
Chinese system. If you wish, you may also record your own sound
using the stack and use your own voice in the Chinese speech.

The stack can be found in ftp.apple.com in the directory /pub/lai/dict,
or in ifcss.org in /software/mac/sound.

Some previously released Chinese software - the HyperCard Chinese
dictionary and the Cihui input method - can make use of these
sound resources. They can be found in the same ftp site. Another
Chinese text to speech software "Mandarin" uses a different resource
naming scheme, but there will a new version in future so that
the sound files will be compatible.


/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS303-3A                                    */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Nov 19 19:46:59 1993
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Date:         Fri, 19 Nov 1993 17:40:45 -0700
Reply-To: Dai Wen <wen@SCS.UNR.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Dai Wen <wen@SCS.UNR.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Apple Chinese Language Kit. Evaluation Request
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <9311182019.AA11498@tonto>
Status: R

On Thu, 18 Nov 1993, Piero DiPorzio wrote:

> About a month ago Apple released a Chinese Language Kit for Macintosh.
>
> Has anyone tried it?   Which inputs are available?  How's the compatibility
> with existing programs (MS Word, Nisus, File Maker Pro, etc.)?  Does it
> work with Ed Lai's Cihui?  How many characters, how are the fonts, etc.?
> In other words, is it worth buying it?  (At Columbia University academic
> discount the price is good: $152).
>
I'm also interested in knowing more about this script. I contacted Mac
Connection, a mail order company.  They're selling the Nisus with Japanese
script kit.  I was told that they carry the Chinese kit as well but have
to back order it.  I guess they just don't want to stock it because
there's not enough interest.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat Nov 20 10:32:22 1993
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Date:         Sat, 20 Nov 1993 16:26:59 +0000
Reply-To: John Delacour <JD@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John Delacour <JD@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Mac Chinese Input etc.
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: cc: ChineseTables@eremita.demon.co.uk
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

One or two netters have asked about the new Apple Chinese Language=
 Kit for
English System 7.1.

Since I have the complete simplified Chinese system 7.1S, I can't=
 comment
on the CLK but I guess is has very similar features, so here is a=
 bit of
information regarding 7.1S

                         * * * THE DICTIONARY * * *
Guo2ji1han4zi4

The Hanzi dictionary runs from character #1601 to character #8754=
 in the GB
(Guo Biao) code.  The whole character list is available in a scrolling
window, which can be pulled up either by mouse from the menu or by
option-shift-B.  Characters #1601 (<a> neutral tone) to #5589 (zuo4=
 as in
yi2zuo4shan1) are alphabetically ordered according to the pinyin=
 alphabet.=20
These are supposed to be the most frequently used characters.  The
remaining characters are in radical order. Characters may be entered
directly from the list (double-click on the desired character and=
 type
<CR>), though of course this method would only be used generally=
 for rarer
characters.

Biao3dian3yu2fu4hao4

An additional set of characters #0101 - #0394 are also available
representing a variety of non-Chinese signs and symbols.  These are=
 useful
of you want to make your text look like something that came off a=
 1920
Shanghai printing press :-)

The Character List Window provides four classifications for the selected
character; for example, selecting the character for "man" will give:-

                qu1wei4ma4.......4043
                pin1yin1ma4......ren4
                wu5bi3xing2ma4...WWWW
                wu3bi3hua4ma4......34



                         * * * INPUT METHODS * * *

Toggling between Roman and Chinese input methods is accomplshed by=
 means of
the command key and the spacebar.  Selection of the various Chinese=
 input
methods is accomplished either by "mouselection" from a menu or by
option+shift keyboard shortcuts.

PIN YIN

The pinyin spelling is largely standard, but for some crazy reason=
 that I
can't understand, Apple have introduced <v> into the alphabet to=
 represent
the u: as in qv (go) lvguan (hotel).  Moreover they are not consistent
because if you want quan (whole) you have to type quan and not qvan.=
  There
is no sense at all in this complication so far as I can see.

_______________

Using the pinyin input method, you type, for example <k>

A window appears listing ALL (!!) the characters with <k> as their=
 initial
-- 97 characters.  I can see no point in this at all, since there=
 is no
hanzi pronounced "k". I next type -u and am presented with 50 hanzi
beginning with ku-. <kua> gives me 36 hanzi, <kuan> gives me 19,=A0and
finally <kuang> brings up 16 characters.

There is no facility to append the tone (eg. kuang3) to the input=
 in order
to narrow down the search since the numbers are used in order to=
 select
from the displayed hanzi.  The display is something like this:

         _______________________________________________________________
         ||    1HZ[kuang4]  2HZ[kuang4]  3HZ[kuang2]  4HZ[kuang1]=
     ||
         ||     HZ[kuang1]   %%[kuang4]   HZ[kuang4]   HZ[kuang1]=
     ||
         ||     HZ[kuang1]   HZ[kuang2]   HZ[kuang4]   HZ[kuang4]=
     ||
         ||     HZ[kuang3]   HZ[kuang1]   HZ[kuang4]   HZ[kuang4]=
     ||
         _______________________________________________________________

  __________________________________________________________________________
  ||| kuang                                                     =
            |
  __________________________________________________________________________

where the lower window is the input window and the upper the selection
window.  The upper window can be navigated either by typing a number=
 from 1
to 4 or by using the arrow keys.  Typing a down arrow in the above=
 will
move the numbering down to the next row, so that if I want to write=
 %% I
type kuang -- down arrow -- 2 -- <CR>.

If, instead, I use the mouse to click on %%, %% will appear as a=
 hanzi in
the input and typing <CR> or <ENTER> will enter the hanzi into my=
 text.
With "lianxiang" selected if I click on a hanzi it will be entered=
 as such
in the input window and a new selection window will immediately be
presented suggesting the next hanzi.  Here are some examples:-

(^ =3D tone number)

Type kuang...Click kuang^4..Apple suggests qie^3...type <CR>to enter=
 the cizu

OK so far??

Type ma...Click ma^3 (horse).... Apple suggests Makesizhuyi!!!!!!!!

Here is a lianxiang chain, chosen at random:-

tan2 hua4 wu4yuan2 gong1 ju4 ti3 zhi4 zuo4 wen2 mang2 mu4 biao1 jie4=
 zhi2
ban1 zhang3 (->chang2) qi2 wang4 jian4 mian4 mu4.....and round we=
 go again.

With the "xue2xi2" option turned on, the selection window displays=
 the pin
yin pronunciation of the hanzi and you get 4 hanzi per row.  Without
"xuexi" you get 10 hanzi per row.

So much for the pinyin input method.

_______________

The other input methods are
          1. Selection from the hanzi list (as decribed above)
          2. Wu3bi3xing2
          3. Wu3bi3hua4
          4. Qu1wei4
          5. Luo2ma3



                          * * * WUBIHUA * * *

This is a stroke-based input method.  (Ng Liang Shing is probably=
 reading
this and he's the expert, so I won't say too much in case I get pounced
on!)

A number from 1 to 5 is assigned to each stroke.

         1 =3D a horizontal stroke    _
         2 =3D a vertical stroke      |
         3 =3D a downward sloping stroke from right to left  /
         4 =3D a dot     .
         5 =3D an elbow     < > v ^

A hanzi is identified by typing numbers to represent the strokes=
 in the
order in which they are written, up to a maximum of five.  Thus san1=
 (3)
would be 111.., shi2 (10) is 12...  etc.

This input method relies on the numeric keypad and can be quite fast=
 in the
hands of those familiar with the method.

_______________________

Lack of time forbids me to continue at the moment.

______________________

I have created tables in txt format for the Macintosh of all the=
 GuoBiao
set in both high bit and low bit characters.  I have a little work=
 to do
yet making them tidy and easily readable and I want to provide clear
instructions as to how to read them.  It will not be necessary to=
 have the
Chinese system in order to read these files; just one or two freeware
programs.

If anyone is interested please send mail to

                 ChineseTables@eremita.demon.co.uk

If I get enough mail it will encourage me to complete the thing and=
 I will
upload the file to ifcss.

                   John

_______________________________________

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sun Nov 21 13:13:07 1993
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Date:         Sun, 21 Nov 1993 13:09:53 CST
Reply-To: Ryan Boynton <boy2@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ryan Boynton <boy2@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mac Chinese Input etc.
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

John Delacour recently posted a partial overview of the simplified Chinese
system running under WorldScript on the Mac.  I use the traditional system,
and so am not that familiar with the simplified system, although I have a
copy.  I played with it a little after John's posting.  Two comments come to
mind.  I agree that the use of 'v' for 'u:' is not implemented consistently.
In previous versions of the system 'v' was used only when 'u:' is explicity
written in pinyin in order to distinguish two words, as in nu and nu:, lu and
lu:.  The current implementation does not seem to be as carefully considered
as it ought to have been.
   The second comment is in response to John's mention that:

>There is no facility to append the tone (eg. kuang3) to the input in order
>to narrow down the search since the numbers are used in order to select
>from the displayed hanzi.

Actually, one enters the tone by typing the tone number on the numeric
keypad.  As John mentions, the numbers at the top of the keyboard are used to
choose a character from the selection window.

Regards,

Ryan

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Nov 22 13:30:23 1993
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Date:         Mon, 22 Nov 1993 10:30:32 EST
Reply-To: "Martin J. Heijdra" <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Martin J. Heijdra" <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Mac Inputs
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

John Delacour wanted to have a discussion going on on Mac input systems,
but I was a little bit surprised to read his comments. I somehow doubt
he has read any documentation; since I don't have directly the 7.1S
version as sold in East-Asia, I do not know whether this information
was included in the sold version or not; part of the problem seems indeed
to be that there have appeared standard input systems in both the PRC
and Taiwan, and now providers like Apple rely on third-party guides to
provide full information. I also do not have full info, since I have used
the Chinese versions from the Developer CD, not from the sold Chinese
Language Kit. But with the help of explanations of Wubixing and Wubizihua,
and lianxiang published elsewhere I found out a lot.

First, John is mistaken several times in saying "Apple this" and "Apple that"
when he is talking about what are now standard interfaces used everywhere in
the PRC. For instance, the "v" for u: is a case in point; it was the u:
which was specific to Apple (and never worked fully in system 6); the v is
(a) standard PRC practice.

Also, the dictionary provided is not Apple's; it is the standard PRC dictio-
nary primarily intended for Wubi. Wubi has, in addition to character input
(codes are available in a separate window, necessary and optative letters
carefully distinguished with capitals and lower-case!-A very helpful
Apple addition!), also a STANDARDIZED list of words and phrases which can
receive a similar four-letter code. The list is limited, since otherwise
too many alternatives would occur, which is something the Wubi tries to
avoid (the complaints of John concerning continuous option display
miss the point: you just turn that option off in the pencil input menu,
John!  For a typical three-character
word, one would for instance type the first two letters of the Wubi-code
of the first character, the first letter of the second, and the first (of
was it last? I don't have my notes with me while I'm typing this) of the
last character. This is the STANDARD way of doing so in the PRC, used by
90% of typists--nothing Apple there. (Other features as mentioned by John,
as ordering characters etc., are simply GB features, having even less
to do with Apple.)

Since Apple is slowly trying for the Chinese market (it just opened a service
center in Qinghua), and as anywhere else, starts with the high-end publishing
market, it simply has to adopt to input methods used already; the worst it coul
d do is devising its own input system. Within the established guidelines though
it has done quite a good job of improving (or better: streamlining) the interfa
ce through short-cuts, the pencil input menu, etc. One example (although
that may be standard pratice as well): the chinese bracket key gives an opening
version the first time of typing, a closing one the second time.

Driven by market forces as the Simplified system is, it is only logical that
the traditional system IS NOT SIMILAR AT ALL!!! to the simplified system, as
John wrongly guessed. As should be clear from the above, it comes with the
input systems most used by high-end users in Taiwan: so Dayi in addition
to Cangjie and zhuyin fuhao. The only input system in common is the
pinyin system. There are less nice bells (like extra choice windows) in
the Traditional system; it has the context-sensitive Hanin input system
though.

Remains the question whether there SHOULD be an input system for Chinese
as most Japanese input systems, i.e. one in which one types a pinyin sentence
and the system, using dictionaries AND grammatical information, changes it
to characters. For Westerners, this is obviously ideal; I think the market
in the PRC and Taiwan are slowly deciding against using pinyin as a primary
input system. Hanin is context-sensitive, but much less so than Japanese
methods. Lianxiang requires one to look at the screen constantly, and therefore
is less useful. There is a product called Sindex (compatible with 7.1)
which promises sentence-level input, as does TurboWriter. Apple seems to
think this is the domain of third parties.

Martin Heijdra/Gest Library/Princeton.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Nov 22 13:36:17 1993
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Date:         Mon, 22 Nov 1993 11:13:08 EST
Reply-To: "Martin J. Heijdra" <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Martin J. Heijdra" <MHEIJDRA%PUCC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      WordPerfect Chinese
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Several messages mentioned WordPerfect Chinese as something in the
works.

I assume people were talking about DOS/Windows systems; we Macintosh users
know of course that WordPerfect 2.1.4 and up (English version) is fully
compatible with Chinese (GB and Big-5, according to what system is
installed at the system level; both are possible in the same document!),
WordPerfect 3.0 goes even further than "just compatible", and a fully
localized 2.2 Chinese Simplifies version exists.

While some of you (I won't mention names) are still trying to set the
clock back a decade and write Chinese-only programs "from the bottom
up" whatever that means, other programmers have created a fully multilingual
environment where ANY script can be used in ANY (properly written) program.
Mac is there, Windows will be there. Don't waste your time!

Martin Heijdra/Gest/Princeton.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Tue Nov 23 15:26:53 1993
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Date:         Tue, 23 Nov 1993 16:17:56 -0500
Reply-To: Liedong Zheng <lz@FLYNN.CHEM.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Liedong Zheng <lz@FLYNN.CHEM.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      announcement of a Macintosh text to speach program (update)
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Mandarin  v 1.1 Liedong Zheng, Nov. 1993
liedong@chem.columbia.edu

Version 1.1 has a minor change of the naming scheme of "snd "
resources, it should be transparent to end users. Thanks to Ed Lai
(lai@apple.com) for numerous help!  The new internal naming
scheme uses ShuangPin instead of PinYin, and enables Mandarin to
use other sound libraries available in public domain. To use these
sound libraries, you will have to rename the public domain sound
data file to "sound.lib" and put it in the Mandarin folder.  One
alternative sound data file is the stack from Ed Lai's Cihui
package (available from ftp.apple.com:pub/lai/cihui/dict/
chinese.sound.sit.hqx)

The sound.lib is compressed by 3:1, and is about 4.3MB now rather
than 12MB in the first release.  The sound.lib included in the
package is still a "demo" version, it ONLY has those "snd "
resources to speak the sample files, if you want to speak other
chinese files, you will need the complete sound.lib file, which
is now *ONLY*available for anonymous ftp on two Internet sites:
cnd.org:software/mac/sound, and ifcss.org:software/mac/sound
This complete sound.lib file can also be opened by Hypercard, and
is itself a standalone Chinese Pronunciation Tool, please see
more info in the stack.

I would like to thank those who sent me suggestions and
comments on the network, especially Canhao Li for his
encouragement, and special thanks go to a netter who revised
the readme file for the first release, I apologize for losing
his name.

Mandarin version 1.1 still remains a freeware, please send bug
reports, suggestions etc. to me.


Liedong Zheng
liedong@chem.columbia.edu
November, 1993, New York City
=========================================================
**************readme file for version 1.0**************





        ||| FREEWARE |||||

Mandarin v 1.0 should run on any Mac running
with either System 6.x.x or 7.x.


Ever get tired of simply staring at a Chinese text on your screen, or
on your printout? Here is an alternative :-)

RMandarinS is a small Macintosh FREEWARE program I wrote in the past
few weeks. It *reads in* a Chinese text (GB- or BIG5-coded), and *speaks
 Mandarin aloud* through the Macintosh's speakers.   :-)

You can enjoy listening to Mandarin Chinese as you might a radio, and
better yet, RMandarinS can run in the background, while you are working
on your term paper, viewing an image, or whatever you feel like.   :-) It
is also helpful for those who may wish to learn how to speak Mandarin
Chinese: just run RMandarinS in background, and use any Chinese viewer
in the front to display the characters.  (*please note, you will need to
make a duplicate copy of your Chinese file for viewing*) This program
is also a good tool for proofreading.  No special hardware is needed on
your mac, just double-click and have fun.

The program uploaded to sumex-aim.stanford.edu  is a "demo" version, it
only contains sound resources to speak the sample files included.

NO Chinese Operating System (OS) is required to run RMandarinS but it
WILL need about 500K of RAM to run--and RMandarinS should run on any
Mac running under either System 6.x.x or System 7.x, though I haven't
had a chance to test it on *all* models.

Your ROptionsS?  1) you only need to select either the so-called GB
dictionary, or else the BIG5 dictionary before RMandarinS can read
anything. And, 2), if you wish to switch to the other dictionary, you
will need to restart the RMandarinS program. Finally, 3) if you wish
to Pause, choose "About Mandarin" from Apple menu, and then when
you are ready to resume, click OK. ThatUs it!

The dictionaries are public domain dictionaries, and have been heavily
 edited/corrected to fit this program. I concentrated most of my energy
on the GB dictionary, though I did correct a few errors in the BIG5
dictionary--nothing exhaustive. If you find any more errors in BIG5,
please let me know, and I will try to remedy them later.

Limitations  ===========

* This program bypasses special characters and
    non-printable characters in the text.
* The program has not been designed to pronounce
    English words, but it will spell out any such
    word it encounters.
* The program has not been designed to function
    as a voice-synthesizer.
* Please bear in mind that the RMandarinS you will
    hear has been RexpressedS from a machine, so
    please don't expect native-speaker sound qualityQQ
    in fact, your first listening session may involve
    some slightly humorous RlearningS and a dose of
    patience on your part.
* Mandarin Chinese is a tone language; this program
    does NOT attempt to differentiate polyphonies, and
    instead picks a single tone for a polyphony.
* The sound-library named "sound.lib" is far from
    perfect; I intend to improve the sound quality as
    I find the time.

 Acknowledgements ================

I should like to thank Jim Reekes for his DTS archive. I should also like
to thank the editorial staff of Hua Xia Wen Zhai for their continuing and
enthusiastic support of community service; the publication of this
magazine has substantially promoted Chinese computing in many aspects,
at least having introduced me to the world of Chinese computing.

 Legal stuff ===========

All rights reserved. This program can be freely distributed provided the
whole package is not altered or modified in any way. The file named
Rsound.libS may not be used without permission from the author.

Please pass along to me your suggestions and any bug reports.

 *****  Sit back and enjoy!  *****

           Liedong Zheng, June, 1993

           liedong@chem.columbia.edu

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Feb 14 18:54:04 1994
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Date:         Mon, 14 Feb 1994 16:32:14 -0800
Reply-To: Robert Smitheram <rsmither@humanitas.ucsb.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Robert Smitheram <rsmither@HUMANITAS.UCSB.EDU>
Subject:      Problems with gb files and Worldscript
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.bitnet@uccvma.ucop.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Mr. Tao Tao posted the following:

> I encountered a problem in using WP 3.0 on my Centris 650 running
> Simplified Chinese System 7.1.

> WP can open these files and the files in Geneva fonts just looked like what
> I normally got for a gb files under English environment. The problem is when
> I highlighted the content and changed the font to Beijing or Song, all the
> characters changed into little squarish faces.

I have noticed this problem when using NISUS 3.4 and opening GB of BIG5
files when the word-processor chooses a non-chinese font as the default
font.  You can either change the default font to  *Beijing or, after
selecting the text in the new, open window, perform a CUT, then switch
fonts/keyboard using the keyboard menu, and then perform a PASTE into the
Chinese font (*Beijing is easier to read on the screen and you can then
easily switch to Song for printing.)  If that doesn't  work try using the
Simplified version of Teachtext as an intermediary, then cut and paste to WP.

I have also noticed some problems with the Song Simplified font provided
with the Chinese Language Kit, to wit: as the Laser printer I use is at my
office and my Macintosh is at home, I always print to a Postscript file
but have found that the Song font will not do this, however the
Traditional LiSung Lite has no problems being tranlsated into a Postscript
file.  Does anybody know why?

Robert

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Tue Feb 15 02:35:45 1994
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Date:         Tue, 15 Feb 1994 00:33:26 -0800
Reply-To: beijing@garnet.berkeley.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Jennifer N. Young" <beijing@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: WP3.0 WorldScript Savvy?  NO!
Comments: To: TAO@MBCF.STJUDE.ORG
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

>>WP can open these files and the files in Geneva fonts just looked like what
>>I normally got for a gb files under English environment. The problem is when
>>I highlighted the content and changed the font to Beijing or Song, all the
>>characters changed into little squarish faces.  Please note that I did select
>>China-Chinese in Language manu and the Use Inline was also checked.I would
>>like to know what I did wrong.

As pointed out by John, pressing shift key while selecting a Chinese
font should do the job.  Use Inline should not be selected.  In the
language menu it doesn't matter if China-Chinese is selected.  In
fact, it's better not to select it because your underlying OS is US
with Chinese as an extension unless you register WP as a Chinese
application.

However, I am curious how long does WP take to do all these operations:
importing GB files (non-WP), and changing font to Chinese.  On my Mac,
it takes forever to do it and when it's done, it still has gibberish.
WP3.0 has serious bugs; see below.

>>WP is supposed to be worldscript concious.  I hope what I did something wrong
>>here.  Otherwise, I will be stuck with a piece of useless software.

WP3.0 is not WorldScript-savvy as well as Nisus 3.842.  It has some major
and annoying bugs dealing with Chinese.  To wit: it doesn't know Chinese
word boundary so it will put a period at the beginning of a line.  Very
smart!  The support of importing non-WP created files is lousy: it takes
too long and doesn't do the job correctly (see above).  When there are
Chinese and English texts together, WP can't handle justification
properly.  Too bad!  But what do you expect for $59?

I have complained bitterly to WP Corporation about these bugs and was
promised a new release within a few months.  Who knows, they probably
will fix these bugs if enough people have bitched!

Oh well, I return you to your regular program.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Feb 17 01:18:35 1994
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Date:         Wed, 16 Feb 1994 23:16:02 -0800
Reply-To: Pinghua Young <pinghua@ECON.BERKELEY.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Pinghua Young <pinghua@ECON.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: How could I read Chinese on Taiwanese BIG5 gopher servers on
              Mac ?
Comments: To: Yucong Phease <Yucong.Phease@STONEBOW.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Comments: cc: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

>Could anyone please tell me how to read Chinese on Taiwanese BIG5 gopher
>servers on Mac ? At moment,I have Chinese language kit and simplifed
>Chinese system installed on my Mac.I guess that I need eight-bit-clean
>gopher client software. but I don't know the name and where could I get it?

Simplified Chinese uses GB codes and doesn't understand Big5, so
you'll also need to install Traditional Chinese from CLK on your Mac.
Then get TurboGopher from Minnesota: boombox.micro.umn.edu.
You'll then be able to view Big5 Chinese once you have set the
proper font etc in the Preference setting.

BTW, a lot of Mac Chinese experts live in chinesetalk@csli.stanford.edu.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Feb 17 03:02:21 1994
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Date:         Thu, 17 Feb 1994 05:54:44 +0000
Reply-To: John Delacour <jd@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John Delacour <jd@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: How could I read Chinese on Taiwanese BIG5 gopher servers on
              Mac ?
Comments: To: Yucong Phease <Yucong.Phease@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>,
          CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Yucong Phease writes:
>Could anyone please tell me how to read Chinese on Taiwanese BIG5 gopher
>servers on Mac ?

Yucong,

The following ftp and/or gopher sites ("mirrors" of sumex-aim.stanford.edu
/info-mac) carry all the Mac software that is available on the net and you
will find all you need there.

For gopher I recommend TurboGopher 1.08b3 which has a filter that allows
the receiving of 8-bit stuff.

If you want to read news off-line and have a dialup SLIP or PPP connexion
to your server there is a combination of 3 freeware/shareware programmes;
MacSlurp, ToadNews and either rnMac or TheNews.  I have written a short
manual simplifying the rather complicated set-up of these programmes and
this is available from ftp.demon.co.uk /pub/mac/off_line news as MAC&OLN.

Both rnMac and TheNews have a filter option to allow the reading of 8-bit
news articles and rnMac allows the display and input of Chinese or any font
on your system, though direct input is clumsy because the programme is not
worldscript aware -- so if you wanted to post an article you would write it
in another programme and paste it into rnMac.

I am at present revising my manual and will be including a descrption of
rnMac in the new version and probably some mention of the use of these
programmes for Chinese.

Since you have the simplified system you will not be able to read Big5
stuff directly, since you do not have the fonts.  You therefore need a
"viewer" to allow you to display the traditional text.  From ifcss.org (ftp
or gopher) I suggest you download MacHanzi and MacViewHZ.  I think these
are in a directory called /conversion or something.  From apple.com (ftp)
you can get SubTitle in the directory /pub/lai.  The programmes come with
system-independent fonts that allow the display of Chinese GB or Big5 and
will convert from the 7-bit HZ code etc.  These programmes allow the
reading of Chinese text under both the English and the Chinese operating
systems.

Let me know if you have any problems.

                John
___________________________________

Info-Mac Archive Mirror Sites
-----------------------------
archie.au                139.130.4.6      micros/mac/info-mac            1/1
ALL                                       ftp gopher
AARNet, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

imftp.mgt.ncu.edu.tw     140.115.83.90    /pub/mac/info-mac              6/7
ALL                                       ftp
National Central University, ChungLi, Taiwan

ftp.edu.tw               140.111.1.10     Macintosh/info-mac             1/1
ALL                                       ftp fsp afs
National Chiao Tung University, Hsinchu, Taiwan

_____END________

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sun Feb 20 14:58:29 1994
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	id AA24407; Sun, 20 Feb 94 14:58:25 CST
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Date:         Sun, 20 Feb 1994 14:38:36 -0600
Reply-To: TAO@MBCF.STJUDE.ORG
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Tao Tao <TAO@MBCF.STJUDE.ORG>
Subject:      more on wp3.0...
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

I finally got around the font display problem of WP3.0.  It goes like this:

*Create a new WP document,
*click the Style button on the ribbon,
*click the edit in the newly poped out style ribbon
*highlight document in the window and then click edit botton
        A new window appears, looks like a new document.

*From the main menu,
        go to Tools/Language/Set Language to set the language as English-USA.

*At this point, go to the little font button in the ribbon
        of the newly appeared window and set the default font as
        either Beijing or any other Chinese font.

*Finally, go to Edit/Preference in the main Menu, click Environment icon in
        the new window, de-select Use Inline under the Language.

*Click OK, and close everything.

By doing this, I can input from keyboard as well as import GB files directly
into WP, all the font are displayed properly.

Hope this helps those that encountered the similar problems.

One more questions though, can anyone provide me with some info on other
input methods useful in this Mac Chinese Sys7.1S platform?

Tao

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Mar  3 00:07:52 1994
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Date:         Wed, 2 Mar 1994 22:01:38 PST
Reply-To: pinghua@econ.Berkeley.EDU
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Pinghua Young <pinghua@ECON.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Where to order Nisus 3.4?
Comments: To: CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU, k17420@ER.UQAM.CA
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Here is some info on Nisus.  Note that Nisus Writer should be out soon.

        Nisus Software, Inc.
        Phone: 619-481-1477
        Tech Support: 1-800-922-2993
        FAX: 619-481-6154
        Internet: nisus@weber.ucsd.edu

They should also have student discount program (I got it this way).  It
should around $175.

MacConnection also has it (complete flag) for $299.  1-800-800-2222.

-- Pinghua on Wed
3/02/94, 22:01:35

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Mar 16 20:55:10 1994
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Date:         Wed, 16 Mar 1994 23:00:13 +0000
Reply-To: John Delacour <jd@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John Delacour <jd@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: How to start Chinese processing with Mac
Comments: To: "Tat_Ming.Sze" <21602TMS%MSU.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>,
          CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Si Tatming,

  you write:-

>I plan to buy a Mac, but I know nothing about how to make a Mac have Chinese
>processing function. I plan to have a Quadra 610 with 8MB RAM and 250MB hard
>disk. Do I only need a Chinese Language Kit, if I just want to have some word
>processing and fax function with my Quadra? Or, I still need some more
>hardware and software to make Chinese word-processing work. Also, can I have
>some hints on getting some introduction (paper or electronic text) on Chinese
>word-processing with a Mac?

You must first of all have one of three things:- The Chinese Language Kit
as a (big) add-on to English System 7.1 OR Chinese System 7.1S (Simplified)
OR Chinese System 7.1T (Traditional).  The last two are not exactly
equivalent at the moment and have different ways of misbehaving :-)

There are very few text-editors (wordprocessors in a minute!) that can deal
with the Chinese two-byte characters and I would recommend getting
MiniWriter, Tex-Edit 1.8.1, Tex-Edit-HZ (translates 7-bit Chinese to 8-bit
Chinese in GB code) and JoliWrite.  I have discovered no other freeware or
shareware editor that can deal with Chinese.

For electronic mail Eudora can be set up so that you can input Chinese directly.

For Internet News, rnMac will accept Chinese input but is not really
WorldScript aware, so you have to do editing outside the program -- but you
can display sent or received articles in Chinese (GB)

As to word processors, only Nisus 3.4 and WordPerfect 3.0 are designed to
deal with Chinese etc.  Microsoft Word and MacWrite Pro are totally
ignorant --- this seems quite absurd to me, since MiniWriter takes up 39K
of space on my disk and can perform perfectly with Chinese whereas
MicroSoft Word gives you time to make the tea while it's loading and then
can do nothing!  WordPerfect 3.0 is still full of problems and I'm sure
others will agree that Nisus is the very best word-proceessor for the
Mac.....but bear in mind that a long-awaited program from Nisus called
"NisusWriter" is about to be released and it's probably worth waiting for
that.

There's lots of stuff at ifcss.org etc. for various processes such as
converting Trad code to simplified code, making PostScript files from 7-bit
HZ Chinese code etc. but I wont go into details here.

         John

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Mar 18 08:35:39 1994
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Date:         Fri, 18 Mar 1994 11:36:55 +0000
Reply-To: John Delacour <jd@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John Delacour <jd@EREMITA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: How to start Chinese processing with Mac
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

Yucong,

You write:-

>>For electronic mail Eudora can be set up so that you can input Chinese
>>directly.
>
>Really, I have tried once, it doesn't seem work.What kind of version you got ?

I am writing this using Eudora v. 1.4.2 and Chinese operating system 7.1S.
I have two separate Eudora Settings files, one for when I'm running the
English system and another for the Chinese system and I load Eudora from
the appropriate settings file.  The only difference is that the Chinese
settings file is configured to use Beijing 12 (which is Geneva 12 for Latin
characters).

Why it works I have no idea and nor has Steve Dorner, the author of Eudora!
I wrote him last week and asked how he got Eudora to work with two-byte
characters and he professed total ignorance of the matter and had never
seen Eudora used with anything but the English system.

Nevertheless all the normal operations are possible; that is to say that
characters can be deleted or inserted in the normal way at any point in the
text, copying, cutting and pasting are possible, mixed Latin and Chinese
text is possible (Russian as well if you have the fonts installed)...in
short there is no problem at all that I have discovered.

>> Microsoft Word and MacWrite Pro are totally ignorant ---
>
>This is not quite true. I just use Microsoft Word 5.1 to input some Chinese
>and English in the same document.

On this subject I can only echo Pinghua's response - inputting is no
problem but editing is either impossible or a nightmare.

                                 John

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Mar 18 16:19:24 1994
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Date:         Fri, 18 Mar 1994 16:41:33 -0500
Reply-To: wei-wang chen <weiwang@ENGIN.UMICH.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: wei-wang chen <weiwang@ENGIN.UMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: How to start Chinese processing with Mac
Comments: To: Pinghua Young <pinghua@econ.Berkeley.EDU>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <199403180308.WAA17670@srvr7.engin.umich.edu>
Status: R

On Thu, 17 Mar 1994, Pinghua Young wrote:

> |> From: yucong phease <yucong.phease@STONEBOW.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
> |>
> |> >As to word processors, only Nisus 3.4 and WordPerfect 3.0 are designed to
> |> >deal with Chinese etc.  Microsoft Word and MacWrite Pro are totally
> |> >ignorant ---
> |>
> |> This is not quite true. I just use Microsoft Word 5.1 to input some Chinese
> |> and English in the same document.
>
> Have you tried inputing a few lines of Chinese?  Have you tried cut
> and paste?  Have you ...
>
Well, I use MS Word with Chinese system on my Mac and the results are
satisfactory.  I think the key is my Chinese system has the ability of
inputting 3 byte Chinese (adding a compressed space after each Chinese
character) and converting between 2byte and 3byte Chinese.

If you are like me, used to and using MS Word a lot and not willing to
invest extra time and effort in switching to other word processors, you
may want to find a Chinese system that knows 3 byte Chinese.

As a matter of fact, with 3 byte Chinese, you can literally have Chinese
on all the applications with minimum problems--unlike 2 byte Chinese that
has to find specific applications for compatibility.

Since the 3 byte Chinese systems I know of are all commercial products
and I do not have any affiliation with the companies, I do not want to
mention specifically the product names.  Plese ask me privately if you
would like to learn more about them.

From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Tue Aug 30 17:15:33 1994
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Date:         Tue, 30 Aug 1994 17:52:22 +0500
Reply-To: hawkins@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: hawkins@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU
Subject:      Mac: System 7.5 and CLK incompatible !!?
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

        i just called apple and was told that versions of the chinese language
kit older than 1.11 are not compatible with system 7.5.  as of yet, apple has
not decided upon an upgrade path for those of us with versions older than 1.11.

        i just bought the CLK and somehow ended up with version 1.0!!  i'd
love to upgrade to system 7.5 but won't til their is an upgrade.

        if there is any other info on this predicament, i'd love to hear it!

        thanks!!


        glenn d. tiffert
        (hawkins@husc.harvard.edu)

From easug-error@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu Fri Sep  9 17:44:26 1994
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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 13:50:35 -0800
From: rlc@raindrop.seaslug.org (Richard Critchlow)
Subject: RE: Mac CLK, System 7.1, and Aldus Pagemaker
To: List-East Asian Software <easug@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>
Errors-To: easug-error@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
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Status: RO


Aldus ...er... Adobe PageMaker 5.0 Chinese for the Macintosh was released
last month. It runs on System 7.1, both on the localized systems and the
Chinese Language Kits. It can be installed with either a localized Chinese
user interface or an English one.

An unadvertised, unsupported feature of 5.0C is the program's ability to
compose Chinese, Japanese, and Korean text correctly in the same document.
There's no need to buy each of the Chinese and the Japanese and the Korean
versions, unless you want the localized UIs, or need to do an index with
kana or hangul entries.

Richard Critchlow
rlc@raindrop.seaslug.org

...and I might add that the CJK features of the US product are "crippled"
in the same way that your X-Ray vision is "crippled".

>There is a Japanese localized version of PageMaker, I do not know about
>Chinese versions.
>
>I have been told by an Aldus engineer that Aldus software is specifically
>crippled to keep it from printing Japanese *except* in the Japanese versions.
> I have found this to be the case so far in our testing.  I would assume the
>same thing has been done with Chinese.
>
>Nisus and Wordperfect offer many layout capabilities and handle Japanese and
>Chinese very well.  I prefer Nisus, but mostly because I'm more used to it.
>
>Jon Wiederspan    jonwd@u.washington.edu
>Technical Japanese Program
>University of Washington
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>To: easug@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
>From: William.Baxter@um.cc.umich.edu on Tue, Sep 6, 1994 10:45 AM
>Subject: Macintosh Chinese Language Kit, System 7.1, and Aldus Pagemaker
>
>The publications office of our Center for Chinese Studies at the
>University of Michigan uses Aldus Pagemaker (4.3 and now 5.0, I
>think), and we have been trying to get it to work with the CLK,
>without success.  Characters appear on the screen but come out
>garbage from the printer.  Does anyone know
>1.  If there's a way to make Aldus Pagemaker work with CLK
>2.  If there is a Chinese or Japanese localized version of Pagemaker
>3.  If there is an alternative to Pagemaker that would work
>Thanks--
>William Baxter
>Asian Languages and Cultures
>University of Michigan



From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Wed Jun 14 06:22:18 1995
Reply-To: Desirat Michel <desirat@MSH-PARIS.FR>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Desirat Michel <desirat@MSH-PARIS.FR>
Subject:      Some questions for Mac gurus-Re
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Status: R

> Some questions for Mac gurus:
> 1. Have used CLK without major problems for almost 2 yrs. Have suddenly
> experienced a problem with getting access to both trad. and simp. input
> methods, despite repeated reinstallation, etc. Shuru fangfa changes to
> jianti zhongwen in the menu, with a broken circle symbol, and it is
> impossible to write simplified in any program. Removing the Trad.
> extensions from the ext. folder allows simplified, but with a similar
> effect for traditional, no input methods appear on the menu.
>
>I have had the problem of the broken circle symbol for simplified
>Chinese; the problem was fixed by restarting a couple of times. I haven't
>found any explanation for why it happens. Fortunately, I'm using a
>powerbook, so I rarely shut down and I'm not so subject to this
happening. Reinstalling the system software might be a viable answer.

If you still have problem, try to re-install the *Beijing* font and the
system script. Do not forget to desactivate the extensions when you start
the Mac!
If your *Beijing* font is really bad, perhaps you will not be able to delete it.
You can use ResEdit (dangerous) or MacTools to delete it. If it does not
work,the following works very well:
Open a new document with teach-text or any kind of word processor. Do not
write anything, just save the file under the name *Beijing*. Quit teach-tex
and put the new *Beijing* file in the system fonts.
When the Mac asks you if you want to replace the font *Beijing*, type
"yes". The Mac wil replace the reel Beijing file with the false one.
Finally, throw away the new *Beijing* document and re-install a good copy
of the reel *Beijing* font.
It works very well and also for the *Taipei* font (or any font you want).
And it is so exciting to cheat these stupid machines...


From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Aug 14 16:35:20 1995
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Date:         Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:32:54 -0800
Reply-To: Edmund Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Edmund Lai <lai@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      HyperCard Stack Simplifed Chinse dictionary 0.6
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Status: R

I have posted version 0.6 of simplified Chinese dictionary
HyperCard stack to ftp.apple.com as
/pub/lai/chSimpDict6.sea.hqx.

The major addition to this version is the inclusion of the
data from a stroke font. The plan is to use the font to show
the stroke order of characters. The problem is that the
original stroke font is for printing rather than writing.
For example the kou3(mouth) is often written as 1 or 2
strokes because the final printout is still a square.
So even though I have made extensive change to the data,
a lot more remains to be done. In particular the stroke
order is wrong in many of these characters, so it is not
useful for teaching purpose. So this is consider to be
a developmental release to obtain feedback. There will
be a few more 0.6x releases before it can really be used.

At this moment the data I am looking for is very simple.
The stroke count of each character in the GB character
set. Does anyone know where I can get an electronic
version of stroke count data? Of course I already have
such data from counting the strokes in the stroke font
data, but I need to double check to make sure they are
correct after my manual edition.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS303-3A                                    */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi


From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Nov 30 23:12:29 1995
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Date:         Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:07:28 -0500
Reply-To: "Glenn D. Tiffert" <tiffert@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: "Glenn D. Tiffert" <tiffert@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ML named CHINESE-MAC
Comments: To: Koichi Morita <morita@MBOX.KYOTO-INET.OR.JP>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Status: R

this information may be a bit dated, but try sending the usual

SUBSCRIBE CHINESE-MAC [your name]

command to: mailserv@odie.ccs.yorku.ca.

the list is not consistently active.  postings come in waves and spurts,
but it is a useful forum.

try this URL for other mac chinese info: http://www.jnw.com/mac.html


----------------------------------------
glenn d. tiffert
fairbank center for east asian research
harvard university
1737 cambridge street, room 308
cambridge, ma  02138                            fax: (617) 495-9976
usa                                             email: tiffert@fas.harvard.edu

From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Dec  1 10:27:44 1995
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Date:         Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:21:20 GMT
Reply-To: Albin Pouilles <Albin.Pouilles@ANSF.ALCATEL.FR>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Albin Pouilles <Albin.Pouilles@ANSF.ALCATEL.FR>
Subject:      Re: ML named CHINESE-MAC
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Status: R

    ***********************************************************************
    *    The following list has now been moved to LISTSERV:               *
    *                                                                     *
    *    CHINESE-MAC                                                      *
    *                                                                     *
    *    To subscribe to any of the above lists, you now need to send     *
    *    e-mail to LISTSERV@YORKU.CA with the command                     *
    *                                                                     *
    *        SUBSCRIBE CHINESE-MAC your name                              *
    *                                                                     *
    *    A complete list of LISTSERV lists can be obtained from the       *
    *    LISTSERV machine by sending e-mail to LISTSERV@YORKU.CA with the *
    *    command                                                          *
    *                                                                     *
    *        LISTS                                                        *
    *                                                                     *
    ***********************************************************************

From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Dec  1 23:13:06 1995
Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu (uga.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.5]) by ccic.ifcss.org (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA11549 for <yjj@IFCSS.ORG>; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:13:05 -0500
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   with BSMTP id 5811; Fri, 01 Dec 95 23:07:02 EST
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Date:         Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:08:19 +0900
Reply-To: Koichi Morita <morita@MBOX.KYOTO-INET.OR.JP>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Koichi Morita <morita@MBOX.KYOTO-INET.OR.JP>
Subject:      [Thanx] ML named CHINESE-MAC
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Status: R

Thanks, all.

As Glenn D. Tiffert said, CHINESE-MAC mailing list was
at mailserv@odie.ccs.yorku.ca,
but now the list is moved to LISTSERV@YORKU.CA.

Albin Pouilles kindly quoted a part of the help message
of LISTSERV@YORKU.CA,
and I could successfully subscribed to the list.

Xiexie.
Koichi Morita
morita@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp
BXC00570@niftyserve.or.jp

From owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Dec 14 10:57:14 1995
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   with BSMTP id 6229; Thu, 14 Dec 95 10:50:50 EST
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Date:         Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:49:22 -0500
Reply-To: Glenn Tiffert <tiffert@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Glenn Tiffert <tiffert@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: the driver for Apple printer under Chinese Windows?
Comments: To: heping Shan <shan@ULIISA.UNIL.CH>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
In-Reply-To:  <01HYSLCJPBSI004U8I@NETOP6.HARVARD.EDU>
Status: RO

try:

<ftp://ftp.support.apple.com//pub/apple_sw_updates/US/dos_win/Printing/
  Win_3.1_LW_Printer_SW.exe>

you may want to read the accompnaying text file description first:

<ftp://ftp.support.apple.com//pub/apple_sw_updates/US/dos_win/Printing/
  Win_3.1_LW_Printer_SW.txt>


----------------------------------------
glenn d. tiffert
fairbank center for east asian research
harvard university
1737 cambridge street, room 308                fax: (617) 495-9976
cambridge, ma  02138                           email: tiffert@fas.harvard.edu
usa

