From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 22 06:31:14 1991
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Date:         Tue, 21 May 91 22:24:27 GMT
Reply-To: A06G%DHBRRZ41.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: A06G%DHBRRZ41.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Answer to a email-question as to the coding structure of the
ET-fontfiles: Here the informations for the files with
version 2.0:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fontname   bytes  lines  char  extent (QU / WEI)   Contents
            per    per   no    in BIG-5 coding
           line   charac       begin      end
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASCFONT.24   2     24    256                       IBM 8-bit-ASCII
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPCFONT.24   3     24    407   01/001   03/094     Standard BIG-5 (non
                                                   Chinese in BIG-5)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPCFSUPP.24  3     24    365   38/064   40/114     ET-supplement to BIG-5
                                                   (Japanese Russian etc)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
STDFONT.24   3     24   5401   04/001   38/063     frequent BIG-5 characters
                        7651   41/001   89/115     less frequent BIG-5 char.
                          42   89/116   89/157     ET-suppl. to BIG-5
                                                   (8 Hanzi, rest graphics)
          (Total:      13094)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice:           The BIG-5 code occupies the QUs from 1 to 89 (94 would
                  be possible acording to the coding structure.)
                  Each QU contains 157 Positions (WEIs) or each QU is
                  an array of 157 elements.
Important notice: In the STDFONT.24 the less frequent character follow
                  closely the frequent ones, though in the coding scheme
                  in BIG-5 there is a "hole". This "hole" is (partly)
                  filled by the SPCFSUPP.24-font, which contains useful
                  characters, which are not contained in standard BIG-5
                  as Japanese Hiragana and Katakana and some other stuff
                  which is contained in the Qu 1-10 of GB 2312.

I hope somebody will construct the font conversion program with the above
information.

Have fun ;-)
Urs in Bremen

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 22 10:26:44 1991
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Date:         Wed, 22 May 91 10:24:29 -0400
Reply-To: simpson%math.psu.edu@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ETEN
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Here is some information about ETEN.

Basically ETEN is a Chinese operating system.  It runs under MSDOS and
you can run other programs under it (word processors, desktop
publishing, etc.).  They should work transparently, provided they are
8-bit clean.  For instance, Susie Chu's MSDOS version of celvis (an
8-bit clean version of vi, available for anonymous ftp from
ames.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3] and chu.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.19.18])
works under ETEN.  Also, Freemacs (the MSDOS version of GNU Emacs)
works under ETEN.

ETEN is commercial software from Taiwan.  The entry-level version
costs US $88.  There are advanced versions which have more features
and prices up to US $1446.  The features of the entry-level version
are as follows.

1. Floppy disks only, circuit board not included.
2. Supports VGA, EGA, or Hercules.
3. Three 24 x 24 fonts, Ming, Kai, and Lishu.
4. Cangjie, Jianyi, Zhuyin, Row-Column, and Phrase input.
5. 13,502 characters, character creation, up to 5,000 characters.
6. Manual included.

There is a supplementary HP Laserjet font package available for US
$292.  The package includes Songti 32x32, 40x40, and 48x48 fonts.
Optional fonts are Kaiti, Lishu, and Xingshu.  64x64 fonts are also
available.

The above information is from the Cheng and Tsui catalog.  If you want
more information on ETEN and other Chinese software, I suggest you get
a catalog from Cheng and Tsui and/or Pacific Rim Connections.

Cheng and Tsui Inc.
25 West Street
Boston MA 02111
+1 617 426-6074

Pacific Rim Connections Inc.
3030 Atwater Drive
Burlingame CA 94010
+1 415 697-0911
FAX +1 415 697-9439.

I am not 100 percent sure how the ETEN fonts are organized.  I think
that the organization is closely related to BIG-5 coding, but I am not
sure of this.  Susie Chu, Mark Leisher, and Urs Widmer recently posted
some helpful information about ETEN fonts.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 22 16:20:19 1991
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Date:         Wed, 22 May 91 14:19:14 EDT
Reply-To: Chih-Hung Hsieh <hsiehch%SPUNKY.CS.NYU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Chih-Hung Hsieh <hsiehch%SPUNKY.CS.NYU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      to get bitmaps from Chinese systems
Comments: To: ccnet-l%uga.BITNET@uccvm.nyu.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

So far, we have had many discussions on getting Chinese bitmaps from
ETEN and other Chinese systems.  In general, this is more a copy-right
issue than a technical issue.  However, I'd like to give some hints
for those who want to do this.

You may justify this technique for your own applications.
I'll take no responsibility for any violation of copy-right or damages
to your software or hardware due to the application of the techniques
I suggest.

The simple method to get the font bitmaps from any system is to
get bitmaps from the video RAM area.  All you have to know is which
video RAM page is used for displaying characters and the organization
of the video RAM pages.  You can easily get such information from the
manual of your video display card.

The program would look like:
(1) write a character at a specific location on the screen,
    (Every Chinese OS should support this function.)
(2) read the bit image from the video RAM area,
(3) store the bitmap in any format you like in any place, and
(4) go to step (1) to get the next character.

This approach is independent of the encoding system and font file format
adopted by a Chinese OS.  It only depends on the video display system.
However, if you know the internal code system, you can generate every
Chinese character in the code table automatically.  It would take only
a few minutes to display-and-extract every Chinese character in your
Chinese OS.

Hsieh, Chih-Hung
hsiehch@cs.nyu.edu

P.S. 	The following bitmaps of my Chinese name was extracted from
	ETEN version 1.5 (?) and encoded in 2-bit-per-character format.

	Hsieh			Chih			Hung
------------------------ ------------------------ ------------------------
 ,,,       ||'      ||'             ||'           ,,,,,,,,,|,     ||,
  '||    ,,|,,,|    ||              ||        ,,          ||'     ||
,,,,|,|, ||   ||    ||   '''''''''''||'''''''''''         ||      ||
         ||'''|| ,,,||,|            ||             |,,,,,,||     ,|'
 ,,,,|,  ||,,,||    ||              ||      ,,     ||     ''     ||
         ||   ||,,  ||     ''''''''''''''''''''    ||            ||
 ''''''  || ,,||'   ||             ,,              ||,,,,,,|,   ||
 ,     '||'' ,|| |  ||      ,  ||'  '|,    ,,      ''     ||'   |'   ',
 ||''||    ,|'||  | ||      |  ||    ''     '|,           ||   |'     '|
 ||  || ,,''  ||    ||    ,|'  ||         |  '||         ,|'  ,'      ,||
 ||  ||       ||    ||   ,||   ||         |,  ||'       ,|' ,,|,,,|''' '||
 ||''''    ''||' ''||'   ''    '|||||||||||'       '''|||'   ''''       ||
------------------------ ------------------------ ------------------------

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 22 20:45:57 1991
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 Wed, 22 May 91 20:39:43 EDT
Date:         Wed, 22 May 91 18:58:21 EST
Reply-To: ygz%CS.PURDUE.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: ygz%CS.PURDUE.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Tue,
              21 May 91 22:24:27 +0000.
              <9105221031.AA03102@arthur.cs.purdue.edu>
Status: RO

A06G@DHBRRZ41.BITNET wrote:

> Answer to a email-question as to the coding structure of the
> ET-fontfiles: Here the informations for the files with
> version 2.0:
>   ......

Many have found that ET coding has different layout from that of HKU-Ch16.
With the information provided by "A06G@DHBRRZ41.BITNET",  it seems
easy to convert ET coding into BIG5 coding.  After take a look in the
character layout of HKU-Ch16.bdf,  I guess that the only different of the
2 coding may be the offset of Non-frequent BIG5 code in the coding scheme:
(the legal 2nd byte is from 0x40-0x7e, and 0xa1-0xfe)

  portion of codes in BIG5	coding in ET		coding in HKU-Ch16
  ------------------------	----------------	----------------
  Non-Chinese symbols		0xa140 -- 0xa3bf	0xa140 -- 0xa3fe
  Frequent (5401)		0xa440 -- 0xc67e	0xa440 -- 0xc67e
  Non-frequent (7651)		0xc940 -- 0xf9d5	0xc6a1 -- 0xf755
  Non-BIG5 supplement		0xf9d6 -- ??		  no

In ET coding there is a "hole" which doesn't not appear in HKU-Ch16.

If what I guess is correct, then the conversion program is trivial.
I've written a prototype in C.  It seems working.  Some Chinese
text I got from ET can be shown correctly in X window using hku-ch16.
The B5 pinyin table from crl.nmsu.edu looks no longer bad.

But I have two questions:

  1) is the conversion only a matter of shifting?  I hope somebody
     who has more knowledge about BIG5, ET, HKU-Ch16, and traditional
     Chinese can answer this question. (I am from mainland China.)

  2) Which one is the *real* BIG5?  So many commercial products from
     Taiwan and Hong Kong are claimed to be BIG5, but few of them are
     really compactable with each other in internal coding.
     Since HKU-Ch16.bdf is currently the most widely spread BIG5 font,
     I assume it is the standard BIG5 coding now.  (If there is any
     objection, you can rename my program from "et2b5" to "et2hku".)

My program is enclosed, but it is *NOT* tested throughoutly.
I hope someone can polish it and put it to public domain.

Thanks.

--ygz

----------------------------------------------------------

/*
 * et2b5 -- convert between ET coding and BIG5 coding (defined by HKU-Ch16)
 *
 * Author:	Yongguang Zhang (ygz@cs.purdue.edu)
 *
 * Usage:
 *		input from stdin, output to stdout.
 *		ET => BIG5:	et2b5
 *		BIG5 => ET:	et2b5 -r
 */

#include <stdio.h>

/* follow the convention of b2g/HCu, unconverted hanzi is replaced by a box */

#define UNCONV_H	0xa1
#define UNCONV_L	0xbc

main(argc, argv)
     int argc;
     char **argv;
{
  int uncv = 0;

	if (argc == 2) {
		uncv = big2et();
	} else {
		uncv = et2big();	/* by default */
	}
	if (uncv != 0)
	    fprintf (stderr, "Number of nonstandard Big5 (unconverted) = %d\n",
		     uncv );
}

int et2big()
{
  int c;
  unsigned char h, l;
  int uncv = 0;

	while ((c = getchar()) != EOF) {
		if (! (c & 0x80)) {
			putchar (c);
			continue;
		}

		/* begin of hanzi */
		h = c & 0xff;
		c = getchar ();
		if (c == EOF) {
			putchar (h);
			break;
		}
		l = c & 0xff;

		if ((h < 0xc6) || ((h == 0xc6) && (l <= 0x7e))) {
			/* Frequent BIG5 */
			putchar(h);
			putchar(l);
			continue;
		}
		if ((h <= 0xc8) || (h > 0xf9) || ((h == 0xf9) && (l > 0xd5)))
		{
			/* ET added on non-standard codes */
			putchar(UNCONV_H);
			putchar(UNCONV_L);
			uncv ++;
			continue;
		}

		/* Non-frequnt BIG5 */
		if ((l >= 0xc0) && (l <= 0xfe)) {
			putchar (h - 2);
			putchar (l - 0xc0 + 0x40);
		} else if ((l >= 0xa1) && (l <= 0xbf)) {
			putchar (h - 3);
			putchar (l - 0xa1 + 0xe0);
		} else if ((l >= 0x40) && (l <= 0x7e)) {
			putchar (h - 3);
			putchar (l - 0x40 + 0xa1);
		} else {
			putchar(UNCONV_H);
			putchar(UNCONV_L);
			uncv ++;
		}
	}
	return (uncv);
}

int big2et()
{
  int c;
  unsigned char h, l;
  int uncv = 0;

	while ((c = getchar()) != EOF) {
		if (! (c & 0x80)) {
			putchar (c);
			continue;
		}

		/* begin of hanzi */
		h = c & 0xff;
		c = getchar ();
		if (c == EOF) {
			putchar (h);
			break;
		}
		l = c & 0xff;

		if ((h < 0xc6) || ((h == 0xc6) && (l <= 0x7e))) {
			/* Frequent BIG5 */
			putchar(h);
			putchar(l);
			continue;
		}
		if ((h > 0xf7) || ((h == 0xf7) && (l > 0x55))) {
			/* non-standard BIG5 */
			putchar(UNCONV_H);
			putchar(UNCONV_L);
			uncv ++;
			continue;
		}

		/* Non-frequnt BIG5 */
		if ((l >= 0xe0) && (l <= 0xfe)) {
			putchar (h + 3);
			putchar (l - 0xe0 + 0xa1);
		} else if ((l >= 0xa1) && (l <= 0xdf)) {
			putchar (h + 3);
			putchar (l - 0xa1 + 0x40);
		} else if ((l >= 0x40) && (l <= 0x7e)) {
			putchar (h + 2);
			putchar (l - 0x40 + 0xc0);
		} else {
			putchar(UNCONV_H);
			putchar(UNCONV_L);
			uncv ++;
		}
	}
	return (uncv);
}

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May 29 20:08:52 1991
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 Wed, 29 May 91 20:06:20 EDT
Date:         Wed, 29 May 91 16:52:12 PDT
Reply-To: Val Luck <valuck%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
From: Val Luck <valuck%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      yi-tian fonts
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hello.  I am trying to write a nice postscript driver for yi-tian.  It
should be really nice, and available to all when it's done.

But, does anyone have any more fonts that are bigger then 24x24 for yi-tian,
possible in more than one style?  Does anyone know of a metafont for
yi-tian?  If not, does anyone know a place where I might be able to buy
them?  Any leads, anything?  And help would be appreciated!!

--Val

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu May 30 05:03:09 1991
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Date:         Thu, 30 May 91 01:50:10 -0700
Reply-To: Val Luck <valuck%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
From: Val Luck <valuck%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ET in High memory?
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hello:

Another question for those ET buffs.  In yi-tian, is there any way to get
any part of it loaded into high memory above 640k?  I am using a 200k
"phrase" file, that has pinyin, japanese, and a large cihui.  After
yi-tian loads it all in memory, I am only left with 100k+.  Is there any
way to use memory above 640k?

Thanks!!

--Val

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Aug 12 10:09:37 1991
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 Mon, 12 Aug 91 10:08:40 EDT
Date:         Mon, 12 Aug 1991 14:45:35 BST
Reply-To: MUS6PJN%CMS1.LEEDS.AC.UK@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: MUS6PJN%CMS1.LEEDS.AC.UK@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      HPLaser 3 and ETP
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

 A friend in this Department has bought the ETP Chinese DTP Programme
intending to use it with a her HPLaser 3 printer. We've finally got the
ETP programme running but are having difficulties with the printing. In
addition  to the ET DH24 character generating board the suppliers sent,
without documentation, two boards marked Unitech Laserfast. One is an
interface board for the HP's optional I/O slot the other fits in the
expansion slots of the PC. The former carries a 4 way DIP switch the
latter an 8 way DIP switch. We have connected them with the supplied
lead. We have some driver software and a sample batch file for loading it.
We've tried all this but we can't get the HP to recognise that it has
an optional interface board fitted and we certainly can't get anything to
print. To make matters more complicated I don't understand Chinese and
my friend doesn't understand the technicalities of computers. As you
can imagine I don't fancy working through all those DIP Switches
on a trial and error basis. So please is there anyone on the list
with any experince of using the Laserfast boards with ETP?
                                           Peter J. Nix
                                           Dept. of East Asian Studies
                                           University of Leeds
                                           0532-332580
                                           MUS6PJN@UK.AC.LEEDS
                                           MUS6PJN%UK.AC.LEEDS@UKACRL

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct  4 13:33:23 1991
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Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 1991 10:20:39 -0700
Reply-To: Val Luck <VALUCK%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Val Luck <VALUCK%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      et and dos5
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hi:

Is there any way to get ET to use upper memory when using dos 5?
Thanks for your help!

--Val Luck

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Oct  7 03:34:27 1991
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Date:         Mon, 7 Oct 1991 15:21:31 EST
Reply-To: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ET and DOS 5.0 Loadhigh
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

The people at the ETen company say you can not load ET high, but you
can load the input method high.  However, this only puts the array of
phonetic information in high memory, not the input method program
itself.  It also is limited in that it only works with the internal
input methods in ET (changjei, zhuyinfuhao, three-corners, ??), and
does *not* work with phrase input methods. The technicians said that
it works no matter how many internal (my word) input methods you have
loaded, just so long as you have enough high memory available to
accomodate their arrays.

Finally, to do all this, you will need to have ET 2.0 or higher.

Carlos

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Nov  6 17:17:54 1991
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 Wed, 06 Nov 91 17:16:45 EST
Date:         Wed, 6 Nov 1991 12:14:22 EST
Reply-To: Kam Mok <inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Kam Mok <inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Chinese editor help
Comments: To: uga.cc.uga.edu!CCNET-L@uunet.uu.net
Comments: cc: kam@uunet.UU.NET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I need some help in using the Chinese editor ETen.
ETen's ETKBM can provide some different kinds of keyboard mapping but
I am not familiar with any of  them and I therefore wish be able to redefine
the keyboard mapping (or input method) myself.  Basicly I want to use
the roman alphabets just as on the keyboard and have them displayed as such
before the Chinese characters generated.
Can any Chinese editor expert please help ?
Is there any such public domain utility available ?
Thanks in advance !

Kam

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Nov  6 18:45:39 1991
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Date:         Wed, 6 Nov 1991 18:41:28 EST
Reply-To: Yuan Jiang <yjj%CTR.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Yuan Jiang <yjj%CTR.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re:  Chinese editor help
Comments: To: inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

----- Begin Included Message -----
I need some help in using the Chinese editor ETen.
ETen's ETKBM can provide some different kinds of keyboard mapping but
I am not familiar with any of  them and I therefore wish be able to redefine
the keyboard mapping (or input method) myself.  Basicly I want to use
the roman alphabets just as on the keyboard and have them displayed as such
before the Chinese characters generated.
Can any Chinese editor expert please help ?
Is there any such public domain utility available ?
Thanks in advance !

Kam
----- End Included Message -----

I don't know ET enough to help you on this.  Many other packages
let you use the regular keyboard.  I believe Ed Lai's CiHui
(freeware) let you do this.  But it's a utility for Mac.
On IBM, packages supporting PinYin let you do that, but they
files as GB files (Mainland format), which may be converted
to ET format with some public dormain utilities.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Nov  7 10:08:21 1991
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Date:         Thu, 7 Nov 1991 15:59:26 GMT
Reply-To: A06G%DHBRRZ41.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: A06G%DHBRRZ41.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      pinyin input in ETEN
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Dear Yuan Jiang,
The ETEN ETKBM command allows only to change the keyboard mapping in
conjunction with the BoPoMoFo input method. Specially in Taiwan there
exist quite a few mappings as ET, Dachen, Systex, Lingyi, IBM, MITAC.
As I understand you, you need a PHRASE.BOX for your input method.

The PHRASE.BOX allows you to build up all kind of input methods. The
file PHRASE.BOX is a simple ASCII-file. On the left side there is for
example the pinyin (of a word or a single character), separated by a
blank or a TAB there is the Chinese character(s) you mean. You may have
one such an entry per line. If you have more than one entry with the
same part on the left side, then they will all the corresponding
Chinese characters be displayed, and you can choose the right one by
the number. Fore my owne use I have buildt quite a few PHRASE.BOXes:
- containing the 5000 most used characters in BIG-5 without tone mark
  a xy
  a yx
  an xy
  bang xy

- containing the 13.000 characters of BIG-5 with tone marks (the tone
  marks are just numbers from 0-4 appended to the pinyin). With such a
  big PHRASE.BOX one can no more lode larger software packages as dBASE
  etc. But a small editor (PE2, PE3, DW2 mEMACS) is still ok.
  a1 xy
  a1 yx
  bang4 yx

- Since I hardly know the pronounciation of the 7000 not often used
  Chinese characters I have also a box with Radikal/(remaining)Stroke
  The first 3 digits indicate the Kangxi-radical number the remaining
  two digits the strokes without the strokes of the radikal.
  00900 xy
  14904 xy
  03001 xy

- Finally there is also some words-PHRASE.BOX, where there are the
  most 8000 often words according to words statistics from mainland
  China.
  women xyxy
  tamen yxyx
  zibenzhuyi xyxyxyxy

xy stands for a Chinese character. In the ETEN version smaller than 2.00
it was enough that there existed a file with the name PHRASE.BOX.
Automatically its contents will be loaded into memory.
Beginning from version 2.00 it becomes more comfortable with a separate
command (ETINMD) you indicate the name of the PHRASE.BOX you want to use.
         ETINMD /PH=PHRASE.BOX
Instead of PHRASE.BOX you might have any other name. It is also possible
to combine PHRASE.BOXes. e.g. the standard character PHRASE.BOX with
a PHRASE.BOX containing some specialized vocabulary.
If interested in such existing PHRASE.BOX files please tell me. I'll try
to send you. Actually it's already a long time ago that I wanted to post
these files to the ZHONGWEN anonymous ftp site. But somehow I was not very
successful with the encoding.

Best regards
Urs, Bremen

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Sep 18 20:25:39 1991
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Date:         Wed, 18 Sep 1991 20:20:11 -0400
Reply-To: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L%UGA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Pinyin input table for big-5
Comments: To: xiangjun@MICROSOFT.COM
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  <9109190009.AA08157@leibniz.math.psu.edu>
Status: RO

> The tables that are valiable for ftp are mostly for GB and HKU-big5.
> And it says that HKU-big5 and Eten big5 are different.
> Can anyone tell what the difference is?  And has anyone got
> a Pinyin table for Eten big5 for ftp?

I constructed such a table from the ETEN phonetic input table.  My
table is available for ftp as
ftp.math.psu.edu:/pub/simpson/chinese/py2big.tab.

Yonguang Zhang used my table to construct an input method for cxterm.
It is available in cs.purdue.edu:/pub/ygz.  He also wrote a utility to
convert between HKU BIG-5 and ET BIG-5, the difference is explained in
the documentation.  Mark Leisher tells me that ET BIG-5 is the same as
CNS-11643, a Taiwan government approved standard.  So far as I know,
HKU BIG-5 is not an accepted standard.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Nov  7 16:16:18 1991
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Date:         Thu, 7 Nov 1991 15:16:55 EST
Reply-To: Kam Mok <inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Kam Mok <inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: pinyin input in ETEN
Comments: To: uga.cc.uga.edu!CCNET-L@uunet.uu.net
Comments: cc: c@uunet.UU.NET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

     Re: pinyin input in ETEN
Hi Urs,
Yes I think your PHRASE.BOXes will be quite useful to many others,
I also want to see that you post them to some archive so that people can ftp.
Thanks again for sharing them with us.

Kam
kam@inmet.camb.inmet.com

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Nov  7 16:56:26 1991
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Date:         Thu, 7 Nov 1991 16:54:24 -0500
Reply-To: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: pinyin input in ETEN
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu, zhongwen@nada.kth.se,
              A06G%DHBRRZ41.BITNET@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Regarding Urs Widmer's recent CCNET posting, concerning ETEN phrase
boxes.

I don't really understand ETEN phrase boxes, but it appears from Urs's
posting that the phrase boxes provide a capability similar to the tit
files in CXTERM.  In other words, the ETEN user can create a phrase
box file which defines a customized keyboard input method.

If this is correct, then it should be possible to use the

       PINYIN+TONE ==> ETEN BIG-5

input method, which already exists for CXTERM, and adapt it to ETEN.
This input method is already known to be completely compatible with
ETEN.  In fact, Yongguang Zhang and I developed this input method by a
phonetic conversion process starting with ETPHON.TAB in ETEN 2.03.
So, probably, all that needs to be done is to convert PY-b5.tit to the
ETEN phrase box file format.

I wish somebody who understands the phrase box format would attempt
this conversion and post the result here on CCNET, or make it
available for anonymous ftp.

If anyone would like to attempt this, the file that you need is
PY-b5.tit, available for anonymous ftp at cs.purdue.edu, directory
/pub/ygz/cxterm-dictionary.

I would also like to encourage Urs Widmer to make his own pinyin
phrase boxes available for anonymous ftp.  Urs, Bitt' sch\"on!


Stephen G. Simpson               simpson@math.psu.edu
Department of Mathematics        +1 814 863-0775
Pennsylvania State University    home: +1 814 238-2274
University Park, PA 16802

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Nov  7 17:59:01 1991
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Date:         Fri, 8 Nov 1991 06:54:26 EST
Reply-To: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Pinyin input in ETen
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I have a .BOX file (PINYIN.BOX) for pinyin input in ETen.  If
someone will kindly tell me how to make it available for ftp, I
will do that.  In the meantime, anyone who wants a copy may
request it from me and I'll send it.  It's a 48K uuencoded .ZIP
file.

Carlos McEvilly  moeg013@twnmoe10.BITNET

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Nov 18 10:48:49 1991
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Date:         Mon, 18 Nov 1991 09:55:45 EST
Reply-To: Yolin H u a n g <yih%BRL.MIL@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Yolin H u a n g <yih%BRL.MIL@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      [Carlos McEvilly:  Re: Pinyin input in ETen]
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

----- Forwarded message # 1:

Date:         Sun, 17 Nov 91 10:01:08
From:         Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.bitnet@vtvm2.cc.vt.edu>
To:           Yolin H u a n g <yih@BRL.MIL>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Sat, 16 Nov 91 12:45:27 EST

This file is PINYIN.ZIP in xxencoded form.  Thanks to Yolin Huang
(yih@brl.mil) for all his help in getting it posted on the net.
The file works with the ETen Chinese system on MS-DOS machines to
provide a pinyin input method for Chinese text entry.  There are
instructions inside the .ZIP file.

- Carlos  moeg013@twnmoe10.bitnet
------------------------- Start of *.XXE --------------------
begin 644 pinyin.zip
...
end

----- End of forwarded messages
******************************************************************

All,
	I just xxdecode-d and ftp-ed this file to:
	ahkcus.org [192.55.187.25], and
	crl.nmsu.edu [128.123.1.14] in their incoming/ directory.

	Please direct your opinions to him (Carlos McEvilly
moeg013@twnmoe10.bitnet), or to the CCNET-L.


Yolin Huang.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Nov 19 12:18:06 1991
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Date:         Tue, 19 Nov 1991 11:13:05 EST
Reply-To: Kam Mok <inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Kam Mok <inmet!kam%UUNET.UU.NET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: pinyin in Eten
Comments: To: uga.cc.uga.edu!CCNET-L@uunet.uu.net
Comments: cc: kam@uunet.UU.NET, moeg013@twnmoe10.BITNET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Thanks a lot to Carlos McEvilly for posting the pinyin.box to a ftp site.
I tried that out and it worked like a charm. Now we can have pinyin method
in ETen.  I guess you would also volunteer to keep it updated if we
report to you any correction or modification. By the way who created this
phrase.box file originally ? A note about it in the readme.pin would
be appreciated.
Thanks again for the good work !

kam Mok

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Nov 19 15:29:46 1991
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Date:         Tue, 19 Nov 1991 15:26:15 -0500
Reply-To: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Stephen G Simpson <simpson%MATH.PSU.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Pinyin input for ETEN.  BIG-5 versus GB.
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

 > Thanks a lot to Carlos McEvilly for posting the pinyin.box to a ftp
 > site.  I tried that out and it worked like a charm. Now we can have
 > pinyin method in ETen.  ....  Thanks again for the good work !
 >
 > kam Mok

I was just about to post a similar message, but Kam Mok beat me to it.

For those who don't know, Carlos has made available a very useful
pinyin input method for the ETEN word processor on the IBM PC.  It is
set up for anonymous ftp at ahkcus.org:/pub/src/pc/pinyin.zip.

I think a lot of people have wondered about GB versus BIG-5 character
codes.  BIG-5 is in a sense much better, because it includes about
13000 characters, compared to about 7000 for GB.  Also, since BIG-5 is
keyed to traditional rather than simplified characters, it is more
suitable for classical Chinese literature and for everyday use in the
United States and indeed most parts of the world, except mainland
China.

Until now, I have preferred GB to BIG-5, the main reason being the
lack of pinyin input methods for BIG-5.  Yongguang Zhang and I
partially solved this problem by creating the PY-B5 input method for
cxterm, but there was nothing similar for the IBM PC.  Now, thanks to
Carlos, this problem is completely solved.  From now on I am going to
use BIG-5 exclusively.

Thanks, Carlos!

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Nov 20 10:25:59 1991
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Date:         Wed, 20 Nov 1991 18:25:19 EST
Reply-To: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      pinyin input and ETen
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

This file wasn't created by me.  It circulates on BBSs in Hong Kong, and
I got it from a friend there and added the short explanation.

Again, thanks are due to Yolin Huang for helping get it on the net.  It's
surprising to me that the file wasn't widespread elsewhere; now that it
is out ETen will be a lot more easy to use for a lot of people.

For anyone who is using ETen and doesn't know about the phrase.box file
of ETen, this file is sort of a macro file where you can store long
phrases preceded by the keystrokes you wish to press to enter those
long phrases.  So you can see it without having to ftp the file, here's
an example, with XXXXXs representing Chinese and other stuff representing
ASCII characters that you would type in order to input the Chinese:

me      XXXXXX
bb      XXXXXXXX    <---
roc     XXXXXXXX            These two have the same input code (bb),
bbc     XXXXXXXXXXXX      /  so when you type bb they'll both be shown
bb      XXXXXXXXXX   <---/   in a list on the bottom of the screen.
eten    XXXXXXXXXXXX <-----  Maximum length of Chinese?  I don't know
computerXXXX         <-----  Maximum length of input code is 8 bytes;
xzh     XXXX                 no space is required after "computer" here

So you can edit the file, add your own phrases, and thus save a lot
of time.  One easily remembered coding system for shortcut typing of
phrases (perhaps Cihui uses this, I haven't seen Cihui, so I don't
know) is to type only the beginning consonants of the pinyin for more
than one character.  So, for example, tianqi would be tq, and xinzhuang
would be xzh, as in the last line of the list above.  Of course you may
prefer to use English words, abbreviations, or other mnenomics (sp?),
but these tend to be less systematic and easier to forget after more
than a few characters -- i.e., was it "us," or "usa" for Meiguo...?

- Carlos McEvilly  moeg013@twnmoe10.bitnet

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Dec  1 19:04:07 1991
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Date:         Sun, 1 Dec 1991 15:53:43 PST
Reply-To: Val Luck <VALUCK%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Val Luck <VALUCK%UCDAVIS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      yi-tian user font
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Hi!

I have a question about yi-tian:  how many characters can be used
in the user defined font?  Also, how is that font accessed?  What
codes does it use?  I mean the ranges of the first and second byte?

Thanks!!

--Val

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jan  5 03:38:58 1992
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Date:         Sun, 5 Jan 1992 16:36:34 CST
Reply-To: ma <t210001%SPARC20.NCU.EDU.TW@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: ma <t210001%SPARC20.NCU.EDU.TW@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      pinyin for et
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Friends,

ET, a popular Chinese package made in Taiwan, comes with several input methods.
Alas it doesn't come with the pinyin method.  However, it is not too hard
(theoretically) to design a pinyin input table for ET.  We might need a table,
say PINYIN.TAB, similar to PHONETIC.TAB.  Load the table by ETINMD.  Possibly
ETKBM has to be modified too.

Anyway, I would like to know if anybody has done it already?  Or is there
anyone who knows the detail of doing so but don't have time to finish
(and don't care telling me the ideas).  Thanks.

Shan` Wei' Zhang

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jan  5 23:38:57 1992
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Date:         Sun, 5 Jan 1992 23:31:28 EST
Reply-To: Ned Walsh <walsh%CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ned Walsh <walsh%CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: pinyin for et
Comments: To: ma <t210001%SPARC20.NCU.EDU.TW@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Sun, 5 Jan 1992 16:36:34 CST
Status: RO

Hi,

There are two ETEN pinyin files I can think of available (sort of) via
anonymous ftp.

One is a pinyin.box commonly used in E. Asia, "found" by Carlos
McEvilly and now available at ahkcus.org [192.55.187.25] as pinyin.zip
in the src/pc subdirectory.  It includes about 6700 characters and
symbols, roughly half the number covered by ETEN's Big5 character code.

Another is a file called py2big.tab, which Steve Simpson
(simpson@math.psu.edu) made by converting and editing ETEN's
phonetic.tab (basically a bopomofo input file).  When he announced it
last June, it was available for FTP from leibniz.math.psu.edu
[128.118.24.21] in the pub/simpson/chinese subdirectory, but I
couldn't find it there today.  I'm sure it's around somewhere, anyone
know where?  It covers pretty near all (maybe--probably--all) the
regular characters in the Big5 set, but if I recall doesn't include
any of the "special characters" (punctuation, mathematical symbols,
common characters left out of Big5, etc.).  It (or rather
phonetic.tab) also lacked some common alternate pronunciations for a
number of characters.

I don't remember whether py2big.tab was strictly in phrase.box format,
or if it needed editing to be used as a phrase.box.  In any case,
after some fooling around I merged it with a pinyin phrase.box I had
bought elsewhere, which lists characters in frequency order, so the
most common ones appear first.  Today I added some of the special
characters listed in pinyin.zip, plus Japanese kana.  Anyone who wants
it is welcome to it.  It's large though (~127K) so you'll have to
watch out for RAM problems.

/Ned

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Jan  6 19:05:04 1992
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Date:         Mon, 6 Jan 1992 18:56:20 EST
Reply-To: Ned Walsh <walsh%CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ned Walsh <walsh%CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: pinyin for et
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Sun, 5 Jan 1992 23:31:28 EST
Status: RO

Hi,

At Yolin Huang's suggestion, I've put my ETEN pinyin phrase.box up for ftp
as nw_pybox.zip in the incoming directory at ahkcus.org [192.55.187.25].
Let me know if you have any problems or find mistakes.

I'm appending nwreadme.txt, included in the zip file.

/Ned
------------------
NW_PYBOX.ZIP contains the following three files:

1.  NWREADME.TXT - This file.

2.  NW_PY2B5.BOX - A pinyin phrase.box for use with the ETEN Chinese
    operating system.  It includes entries for 13,359 Chinese characters,
    Japanese kana, and assorted symbols (punctuation, etc.) covered by
    ETEN's Big5 character set.  To use:

       1.  Start the ETEN operating system
       2.  If you have already loaded a phrase box as an input method,
           type ETINMD/q to clear it from memory.
       3.  Type ETINMD/PH=NW_PYB5.BOX
       4.  To control-shift until characters "PinYin" appear in lower
           left corner of screen.
       5.  Hit control-space to toggle between English and pinyin.

    Punctuation marks and symbols are listed at the start of the file,
    and Japanese kana at the end, to allow for easy additions/deletions.
    Characters with the same pinyin are listed in order of frequency of
    common use (more or less).

    If you run into RAM problems, try adding the following switches
    when starting ETEN:  /L16:1000/B:0/U:0/U16:0
    (e.g. ET16E/L16:1000/B:0/U:0/U16:0 on an EGA system). See ETEN's
    README file for more info on what these switches do.  You may find
    you have to restart ETEN without the switches when you want to print
    a Chinese file.

3.  NW_SKIP.B5 - 508 characters (and their internal hexadecimal codes)
    in ETEN's Big5 character set but left out of NW_PY2B5.BOX.  These
    are basically scientific symbols, two-byte Roman/Greek/Cyrillic
    alphabets, and various graphics characters.

Ned Walsh
walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
6 January 1992

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Jan  7 00:10:34 1992
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Date:         Mon, 6 Jan 1992 23:52:15 EST
Reply-To: Ned Walsh <walsh%CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ned Walsh <walsh%CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: pinyin for et
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Mon, 6 Jan 1992 18:56:20 EST
Status: RO

Forgot one thing--I used "v" for u-umlaut.  And I used lue4 instead of
the more proper lve4.

/Ned

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Jan 17 00:29:17 1992
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Date:         Thu, 16 Jan 1992 21:09:00 PST
Reply-To: Ping-Yi Chu <IKD2PYC%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Ping-Yi Chu <IKD2PYC%MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      tienma and et file transfer
Comments: To: chinese computing <ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

Does anyone know how to convert a et file to a tienma file?  If you know the
answer, please tell me.  Thank you a million.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Jan 31 01:52:54 1992
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jan 1992 14:48:16 EST
Reply-To: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Latest version of ETen
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@UGA>
Status: RO

I don't know about ETen distributors on the East Coast, but do have the
answer to your other question.  ETen version 3.0 came out this week for
new purchasers (the upgrade version will be out after the Chinese new
year holiday, in a week or so).  The newest version before this was 2.2.
The only new features of 3.0 that the sales people I talked to at ETen
knew about are 1) compatibility with QEMM and 2) it takes up 0 bytes of
low memory if loaded high under MS-DOS 5.0.

For what it's worth:
ETen was probably surprised this fall by the quick introduction of a
competitor's product, KuoChiao 6.0, which also has these features as
well as a much lower price (NT$1000, or about US$40.)  The KC system has
a nice "Beijing" (read: Pinyin) input method.  It also seems to have
some problems, though; it wouldn't install at all on one machine I
tried, a standard 386-33DX with VGA and plenty of memory; it gave me
messages to the effect of "insert disk 2 in drive A:" when disk 2 was
in fact already in drive A: (this was using original, write-protected
installation diskettes that had worked in a monochrome 486 machine and
a monochrome 286 machine).

- Carlos McEvilly  moeg013@twnmoe10.bitnet

From osi-ds-request@cs.ucl.ac.uk Fri Jan 31 13:41:55 1992
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Message-Id: <199201311437.AA21001@mitsou.inria.fr>
To: Steve Hardcastle-Kille <S.Kille@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Cc: osi-ds <osi-ds@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Three revised Internet Drafts
In-Reply-To: Your message of "31 Jan 92 12:56:29 GMT." <892.696862589@UK.AC.UCL.CS>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 15:37:10 +0000
From: Christian Huitema <Christian.Huitema@sophia.inria.fr>
X-Mts: smtp
Status: RO

>Would anyone object to making ";" or "," alternate separators?   Then you
>can use whichever you like.

Good idea.

In fact, why not bite the bullet and place a section or an addendum on the
encoding of ORNames/ORAddresses?

Christian Huitema

From osi-ds-request@cs.ucl.ac.uk Fri Jan 31 13:43:26 1992
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To: osi-ds@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: X.500, Naming and the Internet
Reply-To: yeongw@psi.com
Cc: wpp-camayocs@nisc.psi.net
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 11:22:23 -0500
From: yeongw@spartacus.psi.com
Status: RO

For the past few months, there have been numerous conversations
on the subject of naming things in the DIT. I would like to try
again to settle the issue, as I want to do some things which assume
some sort of resolution, even if only interim resolution, of the
naming issues.

>From my point of view, there are actually a number of issues that
need to be resolved. They are as follows:

	(1) Scope of the Directory
	(2) Model of the DIT
	(3) Construction of RDNs
	(4) Sharing the namespace

This list is not exhaustive, of course, but most discussions on the general
subject of naming seem to revolve around (2) and (3). However I'd
like to bring up (1) and (4) also as I regard them as being fundamental
to the issue of naming.

(1) Scope of the Directory
--------------------------

I would like to explicitly settle the question of what the
scope of the Directory that we are trying to build is. Implicitly,
I think all the piloting activity that has been going on has been
building towards the idea of a global, all-encompassing Directory
that will be *the* world's Directory, not *a* Directory for the
use of the Internet.

I believe that a global Directory, as opposed to an Internet
Directory is a Good Thing. The utility of a Directory increases
in proportion to the amount of information it provides access to,
so in this case bigger is better. However, in working towards
this larger goal, realize that some additional conflicts arise,
most notably (for the purposes of this message anyway) in
how to share the namespace with other communities.

This begs the question of whether we want to *address* all
the world's problems, or concentrate on *solving* the Internet's.
While I'm certainly in favor of the latter, I am *not* in favor
of a solution that will forever preclude the rest of the world.
And to avoid an isolationist solution, I think we should at
least keep in mind that the universe of the Directory extends
beyond the boundaries of the Internet.

In fact, I'm so much in favor of a global Directory that I am
going to assume it for the rest of this message :-) :-).

But one way or another, based on this message and the discussion
that will undoubtedly ensue, I think we need to explicity decide
what we're trying to build.

(2) Model of the DIT
--------------------

At the highest, most conceptual level, I think that there are at least
two ways of modeling the DIT: as a registration hierarchy, and as
a listing hierarchy.

Briefly, a registration model of the DIT is one where the operators
of the Directory serve a second function, as registration
authorities. In this model, the Directory operators are free
to structure their namespace in whatever manner they like, because
*they* are the registration authorities, so *they* get to assign/structure
(distinguished) names however they please.

In contrast, a listing model of the DIT is one where the operators
of the Directory are just service providers, with the DIT
serving to reflect (but not necessarily mirror) the structure
imposed by existing (external) registration authorities. In this
model, Directory operators are constrained to use names derived
from the assignments made by registration authorities: they
cannot arbitrarily construct names, so they cannot arbitrarily
structure the DIT either (since the structure of the DIT is reflected
in names).

I will argue here in favor of the listing model on the grounds that
the registration model does not scale. First of all, a registration
hierarchy requires that Directory operators be accepted as registration
authorities for all users of the namespace. While this seems to be
the case now, I will argue that this will no longer be the case once
the Directory consists of more than a number of pilots.

Also, more fundamentally, a registration hierarchy assumes a tight
coupling between the DIT and registration authorities. In the context
of the Internet, this is not necessarily unreasonable. The Internet
today has in place a well-accepted 'real' registration authority
in the form of the IANA. In the future, the ISOC could also serve
as a registration authority of sorts. So, in the context of the Internet,
the registration model is not necessarily unreasonable: get an
Internet registration authority to manage the toplevel of the
DIT and delegate authority from there. This approach has certainly
worked well enough in the past with the DNS (different registration
authority, I know, but it's the same principle), so why fix something that
ain't broke??

Why? Because of the assumption made that the Directory is global,
not Internet-centric. This makes it very fundamentally different
from the DNS. There is no reason why the DNS shouldn't be controlled
by Internet registration authorities: it's intended scope is the
Internet. But because of the more global nature of the Directory,
what's good for the DNS is not necessarily good for the Directory.
It is unlikely that Internet registration authorities will be
acceptable to the larger Directory user community outside of the
Internet.

In fact, it is unlikely that *any* single registration authority
will be acceptable to all Directory users. And therein lies
the flaw in the registration model: it binds registration authority
to the DIT so tightly that there *has* to be a single registration
authority controlling the top of the DIT.

In contrast the listing model circumvents (or "slimes out of", depending
on your point of view :-)) the problem by not attaching any
registration semantics to the DIT at all. So whatever existing,
commonly accepted, registration authorities can continue to function
(including the Internet registration authorities, in the case of
Internet-specific things), and the DIT will just reflect the
registrations made. This not only avoids the problem of who
controls what from the point of view of the Directory user/operator
community, but also avoids the problem of who has the *right*
to control what. If users don't like the registration authority
claiming control over a portion of the namespace, they can take
it up with the authority: regardless, the Directory continues to
function.

The listing model also avoids the more sticky problem of context
in names. The registration model requires that the Directory
operator make the claim that it will register a name for use
in the Directory. Notice the latter part of that statement:
"for use in the Directory". Context has just been added to the
name! Operators of a Directory structured by the registration
model certainly cannot claim the right to register names for
use outside the Directory, and therefore are limited to
registering names for use in the Directory, if they do any
registration at all.

Why are context sensitive names bad? In my opinion, context-sensitive
names defeat the purpose of the Directory, to map from "common
names" to the cryptic stuff that passes for names in various
contexts. If you add context to Directory names, you have just
created the need for a service to map from "common names" to
Directory names: a directory of Directories so to speak. This
is self-defeating.

Also, I'd like to point out that the listing model does not preclude
the use of the registration model for certain subtrees. Nothing
in the listing model prevents the existence of a subtree where
it just so happens that the Directory operator and the registration
authority are one and the same. The converse is not true: the
registration model does not allow the separation of registration
authority functions from the functions associated with Directory
operation.

(3) Construction of RDNs 
------------------------

The algorithms used to construct RDNs is very tightly tied to the
model of the DIT as discussed in (2). Basically, in the registration
model, the Directory operator (in its capacity as registration
authority) is a god for all intents and purposes, and is thus
free to construct RDNs however it pleases. So, schemes involving
nicknames, abbreviated names and so on are perfectly acceptable:
after all the scope of use of the name is confined to the Directory,
so it really doesn't matter if someone/something chooses to
register under a variation of its legal name, or even under a name
that is outright assumed.

Things are very different with the listing model, in two major
ways. First of all, since the DIT is only reflecting existing
registrations, listings in the DIT *have* to be under the names
registered: no nicknames, abbreviations, etc. This, I will
argue, is a good thing. Legally registered names are exactly that:
legally registered. So there can be no conflict in the Directory
over which of two entities that wish to be listed should list under
a given name: the entity that has registered the name with the
appropriate registration authority gets to list under it in the
Directory. In a global Directory, this is crucial: commonly accepted
name abbreviations and nicknames in one community may not be so
commonly accepted (or may mean different things) in other communities.
In a Directory that transcends any single user community, the
use of anything other than a legally registered name must be prohibited
as a enormous source of conflict.

Secondly, the listing model differs from the registration model
in that it does not constrain entries to be listed where they
would naturally occur as a result of registration. With the listing
model, the approach is taken that entries are listed where searches
would expect to find them, not necessarily where registration would
normally place them. As a result, RDNs may be constructed in such
a way as to appear 'unnatural' in normal X.500 terms. Whether the
placement of entries in other than their natural places, and the
resulting 'unnatural' RDNs is a 'bug' or a 'feature' of the listing
model is open to discussion.

(4) Sharing the namespace
------------------------- 

With the assumption of a global Directory comes the implication that
the DIT namespace needs to be shared with authorities outside of the
Internet. To date, piloting activities have been Internet-centric
in making unstated assumptions that the Internet is, for all intents
and purposes, the universe. So, we've done things like place
the top-level of the DNS under the root with no indication in the
way the top-level domains are named that they are Internet-centric.
Similarly with the naming of DSAs in quipu-based pilots.

I will argue that this practice cannot continue: whether the
DIT is modeled as a registration hierarchy or a listing
hierarchy, no Directory provider outside of the Internet would
consent to the way we've placed Internet-centric things in such
a way that they have global scope.

Instead, I would like to propose the following:

	- the official sanctioning of o=Internet (or cn=Internet,
	  or addmd=Internet) at the root. I believe that
	  a very strong argument can be made to non-Internet
 	  Directory-operarators that the
	  Internet is a truly international entity, and
	  therefore deserving of being listed (or
	  having a registration point) directly under the root.

	- the placing of all Internet-centric information under
	  o=Internet. This would definitely include the DNS,
	  and may possibly include the quipu DSAs (there are a
	  few other considerations there).

	- assuming that consensus is for the listing model
	  as I presented it, the development of a naming scheme
	  for naming Internet-centric things in the Directory
	  so that they can be listed outside of o=Internet.
	  This could take the form of additional sections in
	  OSI-DS 12.

Whether we run the tree under {o,cn,addmd,whatever}=Internet
as a registration hierarchy or a listing hierarchy is another issue.
I lean towards having it be a listing hierarchy, relieving the
existing pilot operators of the registration function, and handing
registration authority to some 'official' Internet authority.
But it *is* another issue.

... So, do I get a prize for what must be one of the longest messages
ever sent to osi-ds?? :-) :-)


Wengyik

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Feb 10 22:31:03 1992
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Date:         Mon, 10 Feb 1992 22:20:59 LCL
Reply-To: NAKUTCHE%SUVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: NAKUTCHE%SUVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Eten and Windows
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Fellow users,
     For years I have used Eten with WordPerfect 4.2, and have been pleased
with the results.  I'm in the process of upgrading now, and have just received
an Eten model C24Sv4 Chinese System (complete with Rom Card).  According to the
manual, it is compatible with Windows 3.0, though my computer itself hasn't
come yet so I can't check this out.
     The Eten manual also says that WordPerfect 5.1 is compatible with the ROM
card systems.  I have also long used AskSam with Eten; the combination works
quite well.  I will write again when I have the system all hooked up to let
you know whether it really works with Windows.

Norman Kutcher
Syracuse University

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Feb 18 18:05:46 1992
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Date:         Tue, 18 Feb 1992 17:43:32 EST
Reply-To: yih@BRL.MIL
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     Resent-From: yih@BRL.MIL
Comments:     Originally-From: Jianqing Hu <thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu>
From: yih@BRL.MIL
Subject:      Re: Chinese program can't run under dos 5
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

In article <EDWONG.92Feb11211144@csa.bu.edu> edwong@csa.bu.edu writes:
>I have Eten Chinese System 2.2, it's supposed to be the latest one.  I have
>installed DOS 5.0, and it won't run.  I have to use DOS 3.3 to run.
>--
>8)

Many Chinese Programs are directly based on DOS 3.3. So stick with
3.3 or wait for updating version of Those programs.

Jianqing Hu
thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Feb 20 03:43:23 1992
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Date:         Thu, 20 Feb 1992 01:37:25 -0600
Reply-To: Zhao Xin <zhaoxin@CONVEX.CSD.UWM.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Zhao Xin <zhaoxin@CONVEX.CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Chinese program can't run under dos 5
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <9202182305.AA23814@convex.csd.uwm.edu>
Status: RO

yih@BRL.MIL writes:
 > In article <EDWONG.92Feb11211144@csa.bu.edu> edwong@csa.bu.edu writes:
 > >I have Eten Chinese System 2.2, it's supposed to be the latest one.  I have
 > >installed DOS 5.0, and it won't run.  I have to use DOS 3.3 to run.
 > >--
 > >8)
 >
 > Many Chinese Programs are directly based on DOS 3.3. So stick with
 > 3.3 or wait for updating version of Those programs.
 >
 > Jianqing Hu
 > thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu

Some mainland programs, like UCDOS, CCBIOS 2.13H do work under DOS
5.0, but you need ANSI.SYS of DOS 3.3.  I don't have ETEN, so I cannot
tell if it will work after you put DOS 3.3's ansi.sys in your
config.sys.

Good luck.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Feb 21 04:59:02 1992
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Date:         Fri, 21 Feb 1992 17:57:40 CST
Reply-To: Huang Chih-Hsien <u7911013@CC.NCTU.EDU.TW>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huang Chih-Hsien <u7911013@CC.NCTU.EDU.TW>
Subject:      Re: Chinese program can'r run under DOS 5.0
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

> yih@BRL.MIL writes:
>  > In article <EDWONG.92Feb11211144@csa.bu.edu> edwong@csa.bu.edu writes:
>  > >I have Eten Chinese System 2.2, it's supposed to be the latest one.  I
 have
>  > >installed DOS 5.0, and it won't run.  I have to use DOS 3.3 to run.
>  > >--
>  > >8)
>  >
>  > Many Chinese Programs are directly based on DOS 3.3. So stick with
>  > 3.3 or wait for updating version of Those programs.
>  >
>  > Jianqing Hu
>  > thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu
>
> Some mainland programs, like UCDOS, CCBIOS 2.13H do work under DOS
> 5.0, but you need ANSI.SYS of DOS 3.3.  I don't have ETEN, so I cannot
> tell if it will work after you put DOS 3.3's ansi.sys in your
> config.sys.
>
> Good luck.

Hi:

I don't know your exact problem, but I think ET 2.20 can be run under
DOS 5.0; my roommate has ET2.20 running under DOS5.0, and never complains
about anything.

BTW, ET3.0 is coming out.  ETen company annouces that it will not occupy
any memory within 640K.  The most important feature is that it loads
almost all to extended memory and others are faster scrolling, optional
printer driver, a set-up on-line menu help.  For card-versions, they
support smooth fonts as large as 128*128.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  H u a n g ,    C h i h -    H s i e n   | E.E.83, Sophomore         |
|------------------------------------------|---------------------------|
|    ::   :: .       :;      ,,,,,;.,,,,:. | Dept. of                  |
|  ''::'''::''' ,,,,,;;,,,,;,::.:., ', ,:  | Electronics Engineering   |
|    ;:...:;         ::      ::.,.:  ,':,  | National Chiao Tung Univ. |
|,,,,,,,,,,,,,;,     ::   .  ::.:...'   ':'| 1001 Ta Hsueh Rd.         |
|  :........;;,  '''''''''''  :.......::,  | Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C.   |
|  ::   :   ::    :. :.       ::......::   |---------------------------|
|  ::''':'''::   :::  ;, ';.  ::......::   | E-mail:                   |
|  ;:...:...:;  :'::   ' : :; ::......::   |  u7911013@cc.nctu.edu.tw  |
| ..;''   '';, '' ':::::::'  ..;''   '';,  |  7911013@twnctu02.bitnet  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Feb 21 10:56:38 1992
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 Fri, 21 Feb 92 10:53:16 EST
Date:         Fri, 21 Feb 1992 10:51:09 EST
Reply-To: John McRae <JRM%CORNELLA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John McRae <JRM%CORNELLA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ETen under post-3.3 DOS
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

About ETen under post-3.3 versions of DOS:  I haven't tried this myself yet,
but when I installed DR DOS 6.0 on my 386SX recently I recall seeing that it
has a provision for telling applications that it is DOS 3.3 if they want to
know.  That is, the implication is that certain applications will check a point
in memory to see what operating system is being run and choke if they don't
find what they want.  DR DOS simply tells them what they want to hear and keeps
on trucking.  MS DOS 5.0, although inferior to DR DOS in all but sales volume
(or so I've read -- no commercial interest here, folks!), should be able to do
the same trick if you figure out how to teach it.  Let me know if this helps!

John R. McRae, Asst. Professor, Department of Asian Studies
Director, Cornell University Chinese-Japanese-Korean Computing
     and Database Facility (CJK-CDF), East Asia Program
389 Rockefeller Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY  14853-2502
o:  607/255-1328; fax: 255-1686

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Feb 28 03:58:22 1992
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Date:         Fri, 28 Feb 1992 03:52:22 -0500
Reply-To: YE HONGYI <f0207027@QCUNIX.ACC.QC.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: YE HONGYI <f0207027@QCUNIX.ACC.QC.EDU>
Subject:      about ccbios.lzh
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Could anybody tell me why the file on account is bigger than on PC? The file
ccbios.lzh on my PC has a size of 244151. I upload it again while I heard
someone failed to unpack it. I tried download it too. But I'm too lazy to
wait the transfer finish. I unpack the file. What I get are, *.com are good,
they can run; HZK16 has CRC error because it's not finished transferring. My
conclusion is it should be okey at this time, otherwise I have no idea. And,
the software that I use is LHARC.EXE.

Hongyi

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Feb 28 09:53:16 1992
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 Fri, 28 Feb 92 09:49:16 EST
Date:         Fri, 28 Feb 1992 13:58:31 GMT
Reply-To: "Ross Paterson" <rap@DOC.IMPERIAL.AC.UK>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Ross Paterson" <rap@DOC.IMPERIAL.AC.UK>
Subject:      ETEN phrase boxes, from Urs Widmer
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I've created a directory /incoming/bigbox on ahkcus.org containing some
ETEN phrase boxes supplied by Urs Widmer (who doesn't have interactive
ftp access).  His documentation is appended to this message.

The directory also includes a file notes.big5 containing some notes I've
made on the phrase boxes.
--
Ross Paterson
Department of Computing, Imperial College, London SW7

----------------------------- big_box.doc --------------------------------
The three PHRASE.BOXes have all the format needed for use in the
different ET-systems.  At the beginning of each of these files one may
add some parameters which influence the behaviour of the PHRASE.BOX.
For details see the ET-manual, page 8-27ff (edition 1988) or page 4-35
(edition 1990).

BIGRAD.BOX: This BOX contains the most frequently together the some 13,000
    characters of BIG-5 code.  If needed you may cut the whole thing
    into two parts, the first part beeing 5401 characters (records) long.
    This part will contain the most frequently used characters according
    to BIG-5, the remainder the remaining characters in BIG-5.  The first
    three digits are the Kangxi radical number, the remaining two digits
    the number of strokes of the remaining part without the radical.

BIGPIN.BOX: This BOX contains the Pinyin reading of the BIG-5 characters.
    Altogether there are well over 20,000.  This is due to multiple
    readings of one character.  The source for the readings is a KUOCHIAO
    manual, which contained this list.  I am afraid there are many mistakes
    or at least many readings; I really don't know where it comes from.

BIGWORD.BOX: This quite voluminous PHRASE.BOX contains some 15,000 words
    to be called by Pinyin.  Among its material are the 8000 most frequent
    words according to the "red" frequency dictionary from mainland China.
    When using this PHRASE.BOX just use a simple small editor (PE2 or 3)
    and do not load too many characters into memory.  You will be rewarded
    with quite a comfortable input method (similar to Cihui on APPLE)
    with Pinyin on ET-Systems.

In a way I hesitated a long time to give these PHRASE.BOXes away, because
I know that they still contain so many mistakes.  Since nevertheless I
can use them quite comfortably with ET, so I always postponed a necessary
proofreading.

Make any use of this material as you like.  In due case please make a
reference as to the source, if you create something useful somebody else
is also enjoying.  If you find mistakes, please let me know; of course
I would like to make my PHRASE.BOXes better and better.

If you give away copies of these PHRASE.BOXes, please copy also this
BIG_BOX.DOC file.  If necessary add to this file your comments, maybe
of improvements to the original files.

Enjoy Chinese computing with Pinyin

Urs

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Urs Widmer            Tel.:  (0049)421-218-3188      CHINESISCH UND COMPUTER
PC-Labor, MZH         email: <A06G@DHBRR41.BITNET>    Journal for Computing
Universitaet Bremen   FAX:   (0049)421-218-2720       in Oriental Languages
2800 Bremen 33                                             (in German)
Germany
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Feb 26 22:42:52 1992
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Date:         Wed, 26 Feb 1992 22:33:35 EST
Reply-To: John McRae <JRM%CORNELLA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: John McRae <JRM%CORNELLA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ETen non-CSI system error message
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I know this must be part of the collective lore about ETen, but I don't have
access to my archived e-mail files at the moment.  Sorry if this question is
old hat:

When I try to get ETen going, I get a message to the effect that I've got a
"non-CSI system" and a "DOS-make" (or is it "DOS c-make"??) error.  I think
I've got the config.sys file correct, although I am trying to use expanded
memory where ETen seems to want extended memory.  (I can change that easily
enough with the system I'm using, DR DOS 6.0, but that may be the problem,
since I've heard reports that ETen strongly prefers MS DOS 3.3 and won't work
for some but not all users under MS DOS 5.0.  If this is the case, I think
DR DOS 6.0 will allow me to fool the software into thinking it's MS DOS 3.3,
as I've mentioned in a previous message to this list.)

Any suggestions?  Please feel free to tell me I'm a dingbat for asking, but
only if you'll direct me to the appropriate ftp site and file!  Thanks!


John R. McRae, Asst. Professor, Department of Asian Studies
Director, Cornell University Chinese-Japanese-Korean Computing
     and Database Facility (CJK-CDF), East Asia Program
389 Rockefeller Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY  14853-2502
o:  607/255-1328; fax: 255-1686

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Feb 27 09:05:57 1992
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Date:         Thu, 27 Feb 1992 22:02:07 EST
Reply-To: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Carlos McEvilly <MOEG013%TWNMOE10.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      ETen startup
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Well, this might not help much but for what it's worth here's the batch
file I use to start ETen:

   et16n
   etinmd/PN=PHONETIC.TAB,XUSRPN.TBL/ph=pinyin.box

The error message you got about non-CSI system is probably from the etinmd
program, which loads the input methods.  CSI stands for Chinese System
Interface, so the first error message simply says that the Chinese system
was not detected in memory.  The input method will not load.

Be sure that you are running etinmd *after* the main ETen program,
which is (in my case, monochrome) et16n.  If you have a vga I think it
is et16v; ega is et16e.  However this may vary with different versions
of ETen.

Haven't ever seen the other message you mentioned.  I have some trouble
with ETen and DR DOS 6.0 also, and had trouble with ETen and MS-DOS 5.0 when
I was using that.  Things like sudden lockups, and an annoying feature of
sometimes remaining in memory even after sethrc is used.  I'm planning to
get 3.0 soon to see if it really fixes these problems, and will report
what I find out (if I can only get some time for this one of these days!)

- Carlos McEvilly  moeg013@twnmoe10.bitnet

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Apr 10 14:24:11 1992
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:08:59 EDT
Reply-To: adlerj@VAX001.KENYON.EDU
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: adlerj@VAX001.KENYON.EDU
Subject:      Chinese in WordPerfect
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

To put Chinese characters into WordPerfect documents, you can run
ETEN (I T'ien, or ET), which converts DOS to a Chinese system.
(It actually runs under DOS, I believe.)  Under this system you
can use WordPerfect, but only up to version 4.2, not 5.0 or 5.1,
unfortunately.  WordPerfect 4.2 works normally under ET, but
printing can be a problem.  The only printer I know that will
definitely print WP files containing ET characters is the
Panasonic KX-P1124 or KX-P1124i (a 24-pin dot matrix in the $300
range).  The trick is to tell ET that you are using an Epson LQ-
2500 (select printer P10 using the etctl command.)  There are
other ways to work around this limitation using other printers.
One is to convert files to ASCII, but then of course you lose the
WP codes for underlining, bold, footnotes, etc.

Concerning the recent message about the ET Pinyin add-on file
available via ftp from ahkcus.org:  If this doesn't work, a
commercial version is available for $20 from Eagon Systems, 10
Hearthstone Circle, Natick, Massachusetts 01760, USA.  They also
have an English manual for ET (simpler and shorter than the
Chinese manual) for $15.

Joseph Adler
Dept. of Religion
Kenyon College
Gambier, OH 43022
ADLERJ@VAX001.KENYON.EDU

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue May  5 14:32:24 1992
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Date:         Tue, 5 May 1992 14:21:16 -0400
Reply-To: Avron Boretz <xhgy@CRUX1.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Avron Boretz <xhgy@CRUX1.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Eten 3.0 Pinyin Module
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Eten 3.0 has a pinyin character entry module which "sits" on the phonetic
entry module (phonetic.tab).  This pinyin module (roman.box) is a text file
(can1kao3dang3an4). As configured, it does not distinguish characters by
tone, although the entries are ordered hierarchically by tone -- that is,
you enter a pinyin phoneme, without tone, and get a list of all the homonyms,
regardless of tone.  This is, of course, virtually useless for most people,
and the pinyin .box files available from AHKCUS.ORG are much more practical --
with the exception that they take up far too much RAM, a problem this module
avoids by loading into XMS memory.  If the Eten 3.0 pinyin (luoma) entry module
could be edited to be "tone-aware," we would have the best of all possible
worlds -- however, I have tried to edit it using arabic numerals on the
pinyin side, and special ascii tone characters on the bopomofo side, withoug
success: as soon as you type the number, it prints as-is to the cursor, i.e.,
it is not recognized as part of the pinyin unit.  So: does anyone know how
one might edit this file to work in the way I have suggested, or (even better!)
has anyone actually *done* this, and if so, would they be willing to put their
results in the public domain?  Thanks for responding...
Avron Boretz

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed May  6 11:50:58 1992
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Date:         Wed, 6 May 1992 17:42:43 MSZ
Reply-To: menzel <utrurt!menzel@RELAY.EU.NET>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: menzel <utrurt!menzel@RELAY.EU.NET>
Subject:      eten
Comments: To: unido!ccnet-l@relay.EU.net
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

  Dear friends on ccnet,
  a fellow student of mine has been trying to install eten on his ibm ps/1
  but without much success.  Whenever he wants to start eten, the screen goes
  berserk in a sort of regular fashion, showing graphic symbols, among them
  random Chinese characters.  Underneath one can see -through some "holes" in
  this spectacle- a part of the Works-surface.  He has an Ibm-DOS.  Does
  anyone know of problems of this sort on machines like these or under Works?
  Can anyone give us hints as to how to solve the problem?

  I have heard that Eten is allegedly available on 3,5" disks.  Where is it
  distributed in Europe (better even: Germany) on small disks and for how much?

  Grateful for any pointers,

			       Conny

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue May  5 14:32:24 1992
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 Tue, 05 May 92 14:29:27 EDT
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1992 14:21:16 -0400
Reply-To: Avron Boretz <xhgy@CRUX1.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Avron Boretz <xhgy@CRUX1.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Eten 3.0 Pinyin Module
Comments: cc: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Eten 3.0 has a pinyin character entry module which "sits" on the phonetic
entry module (phonetic.tab).  This pinyin module (roman.box) is a text file
(can1kao3dang3an4). As configured, it does not distinguish characters by
tone, although the entries are ordered hierarchically by tone -- that is,
you enter a pinyin phoneme, without tone, and get a list of all the homonyms,
regardless of tone.  This is, of course, virtually useless for most people,
and the pinyin .box files available from AHKCUS.ORG are much more practical --
with the exception that they take up far too much RAM, a problem this module
avoids by loading into XMS memory.  If the Eten 3.0 pinyin (luoma) entry module
could be edited to be "tone-aware," we would have the best of all possible
worlds -- however, I have tried to edit it using arabic numerals on the
pinyin side, and special ascii tone characters on the bopomofo side, withoug
success: as soon as you type the number, it prints as-is to the cursor, i.e.,
it is not recognized as part of the pinyin unit.  So: does anyone know how
one might edit this file to work in the way I have suggested, or (even better!)
has anyone actually *done* this, and if so, would they be willing to put their
results in the public domain?  Thanks for responding...
Avron Boretz

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri May 22 11:25:01 1992
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Date:         Fri, 22 May 1992 08:19:02 PDT
Reply-To: USERFFAO%UBCMTSG.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: USERFFAO%UBCMTSG.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      ETIN vs. TOPFONTS
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Re: ETIN vs. TOPFONTS

usersp45@mtsgubc.bitnet wrote,

>     What I like this product is its flexiblity of working with
>various English fonts and graphics.

ETIN basic system can do it beautifully and only cost $79.

userffao@mtsgubc.bitnet

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Jun 13 21:22:54 1992
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Date:         Sat, 13 Jun 1992 19:20:41 CDT
Reply-To: Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject:      no subject (file transmission)
Comments: To: CCNET-L@UGA.UGA.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi, Any-helpers,
   My friend bought a ETen ET16V (fei1die2si4hao4) 3.0 for me two weeks ago(from
HongKong). Here I have some problems:

   First, ETen does not include any Chinese word processing programs. It
recommends to use PE (Personal Edit), but I don't know where can I get or buy
this program. I have used Qedit. It's good, but it's Wordwrap function doesn't
work well under the ETen. I have to enter a hard-enter at the end of each line,
otherwise it either goes right out off the sceen or it wraps at the unexpected
place. Does anyone know where I can get the PE, or is there other good word
processing programs else ? (I need something at least as good as BYX or NJSTAR)

   Another problem is that this floppy system does not support my HP-IIIP
printer. I wrote to an ETen Canada distributor, MIT Computer Supplies Co. Ltd.,
in Toronto. They suggested me to buy JetMate III(C$350 + Tax). Did anyone use
this program ? How good is it ? I want to use my ETen to print  very large
characters sometimes. Is it enough for my current ETen? Or shoul I have to buy
 ETen
Chinese Card else to fully use its potentials (otherwise only  part of its
function can be utilized) ?

   My last problem is that this ETen does not include simplified Chinese. In
its menu, it says that the Sim-Chinese is an optional. Has anyone used this ?
Where can I buy it? (MIT did not anwser this, I wrote to ETen, but nothing from
it right now ...)

   Great thanks to anyone who can help me !


D. Chu

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jul 12 00:10:45 1992
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Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1992 22:06:49 CDT
Reply-To: Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA>
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Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Anyone-who-interested-in-Chinese-Dos;

   I bought Eten 3.0 about one month ago. It is a great Chinese-DOS system.
Here is a brief list of its features I know so far.

Positives:
   * It runs well on IBM or compatibles, no problems on DOS 5.0 and VGA.
   * It supports 9, 24 pin printers (IBM or Epson) and some Laser printers.
   * Input method: Cang1Ji2, Simple method, Taiwan zhu1yin1, san1jiao3 method,
     Array and Array-30 (recommended one, very fast, similar to 5-Strokes),
     TeleCode, Big-5, Phrase-method, Roman (pinyin but without tones),
     strokes, and more.
   * If you know how to modify Phrase-method, you could add Pinyin-with-tone
     method to input Chinese. It's very convenient for Chinese from mainland.
   * Related Chinese function can be modified to suite your taste.
   * Memerizing function. It's a great function. During inputing Chinese,
     if the function is set on, it automatically memorizes the relationship
     between characters. It dynamically builds a list of 10 "related
     characters" for each character. Usually, these relationship are not
     listed in the built-in related function, but it's very convenient:
     when the same character is typed second time, all the memerized
     characters (at most 10) appeare the same way as when using pinyin,
     but on the separated line.
   * Print tables.
   * For the floppy system, only about C$90.00.

Negatives:
   * Only use tranditional Chinese. It's said in the menu that the simplified
     Chinese is optional.
   * For the floppy system, it occupies a lot of ram. Especially when added
     pinyin method is loaded. Maybe Chinese card system will solve
     the problem. (Personlly, I like BYX's continuous-pinyin method. Actually,
     it's very fast and easy to use. Only one thing: it's too stupid to
     memerize the corrections. I hope that someone can modify it and let it
     function in the same way as Eten memerizing function, or better !)
   * But Chinese card systems are around C$1,000.
   * Added pinyin method is not as good as BYX and NJSTAR, or other programms
     from mainland.
   * The base packege does not support HP laser printer. It's optional.

    Anyway, Eten provides a new space for anyone who want to use Chinese on
computers and who want to do Chinese programming. I hope that from now, we
can hea more news about Eten and products form Taiwan, and more people share
their experience of using Eten and other Chinese programms.

    The following is the summarry of Eten printing codes. I think that it is
standard in Eten and Eten compatible systems. Recently, I bought JetMate III
which solves my problem of supporting print on HP. All these control codes are
supported on JetMate III, and I think that JetMate expanded some other control
codes to format pages, import graphic files, and use other Chinese Libraries
(more style and sizes). I am learning this system right now. I hope that
someone who used this program can share the similar summarries with us.


Daqing Chu.


_______________________________________________________________________________
Eten 3.0 print commands discription

Use ~ to indecate a print command

Pn    n=0...24,37...43,60...64  Printer codes
Tn    n=48...240, n is the times of 24; default: 96. Smooth characters.
T16   Print 16x15 characters; used for 16 serials Eten products.
T24   Print 24x24 characters; run ETCTL/D to check 24x24
Wn    n=1...255 Horizontal enlarge
Zn    n=1...255 Vertical enlarge
Rn    n=2 Reverse, ie. black background and white characters; n=1 Normal
V     Vertical printing
H     Horizontal printing
Sn    n=1...255 Repeat printing. only for dot printers
Un    2: underline; 1: stop underline; 4: line above; 3: stop line above.
I     return normal except printer code and internal mode
Dn    n=0...7 Density
          D0  D1  D2 D3 D4  D5-D7 Max Paper Wide  Max Line space  Vert dots
      P9  180 120 90 60 360            136             231           180
      P62 300                          136             255           300
Nn    Paper width. combine with ~Dn to print more than 80 on 80 cul. printer
Ln    n=0...25,75,77,125,188,231,239,255 Line space
Xn    n=0...255 character space
Ahhhh Horizontal grey. Default AFFFF (all dots on, ie., dark)
Mx    x=C, E. ~ME: when asscii>=160, print asscii codes
              ~MC: wnen asscii>=160, print Chinese
?~?   1st ? is current print control char (~), 2nd ? new print control code
Ynx   n: length of control codes, x: printer control codes. Derect use printer
      control codes
On    n=0...7 Print colour
       0-black    1-pink red     2-light blue      3-grey
       4-yellow   5-orange       6-green           7-cofee
Gn    n=2 Draw solid line; n=1 Draw dash lines. For 9 pin or laser printer, set
      line and character spaces to 0 also in order to draw solid line.
Fx    x=M, K, or L.   Ming, Kai, or Li style.
MIn   n=0...15. Set printer Chinese mode.
      0-Big-5     1-General code(tong1yong4ma3)    2-Gong1hui4ma3
      3-Eten      4-Wang      5-IBM 5550  7-Telescr
______________________________________________________________________________

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jul 12 09:13:04 1992
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Date:         Sun, 12 Jul 1992 15:10:00 +0200
Reply-To: Peter Bryder <Peter.Bryder@TEOL.LU.SE>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Peter Bryder <Peter.Bryder@TEOL.LU.SE>
Subject:      RE:Eten 3.0
Comments: To: CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu, A06G@DHBRRZ41.BITNET
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I suggest Urs Widmer reprint his review of Eten 3.0 from the latest
issue of Chinesisch und Computer (May).
It is a very good review, which fits perfectly here.
Laoweng

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Jul 19 22:34:54 1992
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Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1992 11:37:10 CDT
Reply-To: --yuan <T900238%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: --yuan <T900238%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Problem in installing ET1.60
Comments: To: PECO1805@VEGA.SELU.EDU,
              Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Sat,
              18 Jul 1992 21:21:00 CDT from <PECO1805@VEGA.SELU.EDU>
Status: RO

On Sat, 18 Jul 1992 21:21:00 CDT you said:
>Hi Friends!
>I am going to install ET version 1.60 in my PC. But I always get a error
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>message "Incorrect display adapter" as I run ET.COM. Can anyone tell me what is
>wrrong? I am using a 286 pc under DOS 3.21.
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^
>Thanks in advance!
>Jian Liu

 Oh,MY--  the ET 1.6 and DOS 3.21 were the oldest part in my memory!
          I am suprised how you can find them--
          Anyway, you need to have a INSTALL procedure to set it up in most
          of the case, since equipments are quite different from PC to PC,
          obvious example like videa card..MGA,CGA,EGA,VGA.....
          If I don't forget, in your legal and complete ET version you should
          have a ET*.bat file, which will load a sequence a ET files.
          Try to check if you have this ET*.bat file.This batch file should
          work in the best case, but if don't, look at the menu if it exist?!

          By the way, are you seriously interested in OLD ET1.6?
          Wouldn't you try ET 2.0,ET 2.04
          and even ET 3.0, the latest ET 3.0
          wre just mentioned in the Issue few days ago.

          I wished I have given a hint where your problems are, but if don't
          someone else can get it, right after this mail... --yuan

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Jul 21 11:12:34 1992
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:39:20 CDT
Reply-To: yuan <T900238%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: yuan <T900238%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: To: Cwnn project <walt!omcp.omron!cwnn@UUNET.UU.NET>,
              Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue,
              21 Jul 1992 09:15:06 +0900 from
              <walt!omcp.omron!cwnn@UUNET.UU.NET>
Status: RO

On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:15:06 +0900 you said:
>Hello networkers,
>
>Can anyone tell me the price of ETen 3.0?  How much does the basic system cost?
>What are the optional items (eg. additional fonts) and how much do they cost?
>
>
>Lee Sun Pin

            As I know, NewTaiwan$ 790 is the price, which is about 32 US$
            or what ever. The basic fonts are Ming,Kai and Lil; you need
            not to spend extra money.   --yuan

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Aug 12 18:44:29 1992
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:34:27 -0500
Reply-To: tzeng yuan <t900238@MP.CS.NIU.EDU>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: tzeng yuan <t900238@MP.CS.NIU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: wordprocessing
Comments: To: JSUN@TOROLAB5.VNET.IBM.COM
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

	To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

	My local church prints out a bulletin each week in Chinese.
	My understanding is that they use ETEN with regular
	WordPerfect to do this.  I have no idea how they manage the
	memory requirements (DOS 3._ is run).  When I use ETEN, I am
	only able to use the most minimal editors before I run out
	of memory.  Perhaps someone can post here with an idea.

	regards,
	john sun
	jsun@torolab5.vnet.ibm.com
______________________________Your msg above_____________________________
    Dear john, I think it is possible.Here is what I am thinking:
    1. If you use ETen3, you can have choice to "Load High memory" which
       save you memory a lot. Simply example as you use only one input
       method, and you specify to load input method onto XMS area by using
       "ETSETUP" command.
    2. Maybe They use Chinese version of WP5.1. This is also highly
       possible.
                 Have fun everybody,      --yuan

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Aug 15 11:22:52 1992
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 09:20:17 CDT
Reply-To: Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject:      no subject (file transmission)
Comments: To: CCNET-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi! Yuan and other netters,

    The following massage is in regarding of question of entering
period at Eten.

    There are three ways to input period and other Chinese
punctuations. The easiest way is to use Big-5 code. For example,
comma is A141, period A143, and semi-comma A146.

    If you use Eten3.0(I don't know if the lower version has such
kind of functions), you can use other two convinient methods. The
second method, use Tai4-San1 (this is pinyin, TS for abbr.) method.

    To popup TS mode, press Alt-minus(-) key. Actually, In TS,
you can do more than inputting punctuations. For example, Drawing
tables, math characters, units characters, special characters,
arrows, punctuations and so on. If you can't see punctuations, then
press Ctrl-] or Ctrl-[ to prompt it. It should be in 4th choice.

    I would like to use the third method, ie, Pinyin mode. In Eten3.0,
there is a input method called Phrase Mode. You can modify it to any
other method instead of real phrase mode (ex, typping "read" to
input Chinese "read"). I think that, at ftp site 192.55.187.25, sub
\src\pc, there is a file pinyin.zip (I downloaded it long time ago,
so I am not sure these are correct or not). Download it and unzip it
at your PC. You can get a file nw_py2b5.box. What I did is to creat
the following batch file:
---------etpy.bat-------------
etinmd /ph=c:\et3\nw_py2b5.box
------------------------------
Run it to add Pinyin mode to your Eten. Only one negative is that it
takes a lot of space in RAM, so it leaves a very little space for other
applications. However, this is the only one method I know to input
Chinese. Furthermore, I can input punctuations directly in Pinyin.
Ex, typping comma then Chinese comma is prompted, and typping dot
Chinese period is entered. You may find some mistakes in nw_py2b5.box.
You can correct these or modify it to suit you. Anyway, by using this
method, you'll find that Eten is a very good Chinese DOS. I heard that,
some one created simmilar Cantongese mode.

    By the way, Eten3.0 floppy system is not a very expensive package,
around C$ 70-90.00.


D Chu.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun Aug 16 10:23:43 1992
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:27:22 WST
Reply-To: Huang Chih-Hsien <hch@PI.NCTU.EDU.TW>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Huang Chih-Hsien <hch@PI.NCTU.EDU.TW>
Subject:      RE: Input Chinese Punctuations in ETen
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: cc: chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi:

Although Cen Huang <chuang@EDUC.UCALGARY.CA> has shared three methods with
all of us, I guess there is another one, at least, I prefer.

Basically, under BIG-5 system, Chinese characters are encoded by 2 bytes,
but English symbols are always 1 byte.  For compatiable reasons, ETen do
offer two ETen English modes, semi-sharp(Ban4 Xing2), full-sharp(Quan2
Xing2).  In semi-sharp mode, English symbols are 1 byte; however, in
full-sharp, English symbols are also 2 bytes, so it can be trusted as
Chinese punctuations.  (actually, they are the same.)

Nevertheless, there are some exceptions, say, the Chinese period, the
Chinese quotation marks.  If you have a menu of ETen, check a function
called IDIOMS(Pian4 Yu3).  It offers a quick solution for these Chinese
punctuations as well as some other special characters, say, table-drawing
characters.  IDIOMS can be invoked by Alt-Shift-*, and re-defined by
Ctrl-Shift-*.  '*' here stands for A-Z, F1-F10.  For example, when you
hit Alt-Shift-O together, you will see a Chinese period appearing in your
screen.

Here is a list of all of them.  (This table is uuencoded.  Please remove
everything before 'begin' line.)

-CUT-HERE----------------------------------------------------------------
begin 644 ETidioms
M#0I!;'0@*R!3:&EF=" K#0H-"D8Q(" @(" @151#5$PO1" H96YT97(I#0I&
M,B @(" @($540U1,+U Z#0I&,R @(" @($540U1,+T,Z#0I&-" @(" @($54
M2T)-#0I&-2 @(" @($543$]!1 T*1C8@(" @("!465!%#0I&-R @(" @($1)
M4@T*1C@@(" @("!$25(@*&5N=&5R*0T*1CD@(" @("!#3U!9#0I&,3 @(" @
M($-,4R H96YT97(I#0H-"E$@(*)Z(" @5R @HG,@("!%(""B>R @($P@(*)X
M#0I!(""B=2 @(%,@(*)Q(" @1" @HG0@("!-(""B=PT*6B @HGP@("!8(""B
M<B @($,@(*)]#0H-"D(@(" @(" @JM&E]Z:SK:VDO:5Q#0I&(" @(" @(*%Y
M#0I'(" @(" @(*%Z#0I((" @(" @(*%U#0I)(" @(" @(*%"#0I*(" @(" @
M(*%V#0I+(" @(" @(*&Q#0I.(" @(" @(*:SK:VDO:5Q#0I/(" @(" @(*%#
M#0I0(" @(" @(*%3#0I2(" @(" @(*&\#0I4(" @(" @(*5XI5^EJPT*52 @
H(" @(""ATPT*5B @(" @(""CO@T*62 @(" @(""[3\97K-D-"@T*&@T*

end
-END-HERE----------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
--
    ::   :: .       :;      ,,,,,;.,,,,:.  Huang, Chih-Hsien  ;;        ;;
  ''::'''::''' ,,,,,;;,,,,;,::.:., ', ,:                   ,,,;;,,;, ,,,;;,,;,
    ;:...:;         ::      ::.,.:  ,':,   TWNR Moderator  .;'  ';,,    ;;
,,,,,,,,,,,,,;,     ::   .  ::.:...'   ':' CCCA Vice Pres.   ';;'     .;'';.
  :........;;,  '''''''''''  :.......::,                   .;'  ';,, :'    ':;
  ::   :   ::    :. :.       ::......::    Dept. of EE, Nat'l Chiao Tung Univ.
  ::''':'''::   :::  ;, ';.  ::......::    1001       Ta      Hsueh       Road
  ;:...:...:;  :'::   ' : :; ::......::    Hsinchu,       Taiwan,       R.O.C.
 ..;''   '';, '' ':::::::'  ..;''   '';,   E-mail:     u7911013@cc.nctu.edu.tw
							    hch@pi.NCTU.edu.TW

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Oct 13 11:41:46 1992
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 11:39:00 EST
Reply-To: WUCHEB%YALEVMS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: WUCHEB%YALEVMS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Choose Chinese systems?
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

     Thank you for your answers.  I did choose the Epson 510 in
my ET and Wp51 programs.  However, even so, it can not print out
the notes with Chinese (in WP51) properly.  I think I have to
cancel the printer initiation controlled by WP51, so as to let
the Epson printer control the codes directly.  It works on the
ET-Wp42 combination (through the help of Epson manual); however,
I can not find the proper process to cancel the printer
initiation in Wp51.
     I think Mac is not only easier to set up, but more
reasonable as a whole in terms of quality.  You do not need to
use Qemm, Emm386.exe, Himm.sys, device=? .... to fight with the
various kinds of memory problems caused by the 640K limit of
Dos.  You can Fax Chinese, exchange graphical information much
easier.  You have "good standard" for both software and hardware,
so you do not need to fight with various kinds of compatibility
and "driver" problems all the time.  System 7 is by nature a 32
bit multi-tasking, multimedia graphical OS, while the IBM (I will
become Mac) is only beginning to become one.  O/S 2 is good, but
with very few applications; Window is only 16-bit, and most of
the Dos program is not designed for Win, so ......  The backward
and changing OSs on IBM really waste us a lot of time.  Do not
you think so?

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Oct 19 17:44:41 1992
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 0828; Mon, 19 Oct 92 17:41:49 EDT
Date:         Mon, 19 Oct 1992 14:39:21 GMT-0700
Reply-To: chi@WATSERV.UCR.EDU
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: chi@WATSERV.UCR.EDU
Subject:      ETEN Group Discount Offer
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

To all who interested in ETEN Chinese System,

	ETEN UFO 5 Version 3.1 is out.    Version 3.1 comes with 6 fonts and with HP
 Laser
jet printer driver.   UFO 5 Version 3.1 is basicly the same as Version 3.0
 except the HP LJ
printer driver and 3 extra fonts.  The price is $95.00 + ($3.00 shipping).

If you still interested in ETEN UFO 4 Version 3.0 the price is $45.00 + 3.00
 shipping.

If you have already mailed your check to me and wish to get UFO 5 Version 3.1
 then you
must mail another check  to cover the difference of $50.00.
Normally the ETEN HP printer driver alone will cost you over 200 dollar.


Thank you for your interest!

To Order ETEN software please mail a check to,

Denny Chuang
991 W. Blaine ST #6
Riverside, CA 92507

(714)782-0461 (Voice)
(714)781-4066 (BBS, 24 hours)

p.s. All the ETEN packages will be mailed out from Riverside, CA on 10/26 and
 10/27
If your check is cleared by 10/25 then you should receive the software package
 by
end of october or early November.

Thank you for your participation in this ETEN Group Disoucnt program!!!

Som information about ETEN Software in general.

* IBM 286 or above and compatibles.
* require 5 MB of Hard Drive space and a graphic monitor like VGA, EGA, and Mono
graphics
* outputto 9 pin and 24 pin EPSON, IBM compatible printers, Cannon Laser
 printers
* (For UFO 5 Version 3.1) output to HP Laser printer is included.
* compatible with Lotus 123, dBase III+, AutoCad, PEII and other DOS programs.
* uses PinYin, Zuo-Yin and 7 other input methods.
* Support Chinese Traditional Character (BIG-5 code)

last day for ETEN Group Discount ends on 10/25/92 Sunday.

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Mon Dec  7 21:36:38 1992
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Date:         Mon, 7 Dec 1992 15:23:09 EST
Reply-To: Micky Wong <micky_wong@VNET.IBM.COM>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Micky Wong <micky_wong@vnet.ibm.com>
Comments: To: ccnet-l%UGA.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Steve Silberstein <steve@VEGA.III.COM> asks:
Subject:      E-TIEN, BIG5, & multi-national character sets

Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Can anyone help me with this?
> 1. I understand E-TIEN runs only with certain VGA chips like the
>    Tseng Labs chip. Is this true? Does this mean that E-TIEN can
>    not be used with all VGA monitors?

For ETen 2.0, I had problem with VGA display card with TSENG-4000
chip, so I used ET-16E(For EGA resolution) to circumvent the problem.

For ETen 3.0, I had tried VGA resolution with ETen using display
cards of TSENG-4000 chip, Orchard chip, IBM8514, they all worked OK.

Eten supports Hercules, EGA 640x350, VGA 640X480.
If you have display was configured higher than 640X480, the Eten
driver will change it back to 640X480 resolution.
This applies for ETen 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 for the Fai-Die (Flying Saucer)
product line.

To use higher resolution 600X800 and 1024X768, and screen font of
24 X 24 Chinese display, you need to buy very expensive display
cards from Eten.

> 2. Has anyone built a set of "user defined" characters for E-TIEN
>that adds to the BIG5 set the 2,300 Korean characters and/or
>the 3-4,000 simplified characters so that E-TIEN can display
>on the same screen characters from Chinese (mainland and Taiwan),
>Japan and Korea, all on the same screen?
>How about Thai or other languages?

Eten has it's own product to support the Korea Kanji set.
Like another netter pointed out, Eten does sell option to support
the simplified Chinese character set to support the mainland market.
I have heard that there are people bought Eten to support the Arabic.

> 3. Or is there another package that does this?

Theoretically, the Chinese Window also has character build utility
to implement user defined characters.

> 4. What are the relative merits of E-TIEN vs Kuo Chaio or other
  equivalent packages? (especially as related to 1.) & 2.) above) ?

As a non-business end user of Eten for more than 5 years, My personal
view on Eten is: This is a product of very high overall quality.
It's implementation of input methods are the best among the dozen
or so of other products that I have tried.  The ergonomics of it's
special keys are excellent. {this could be a biased view from someone
have used it for more than 5 years. :-) }

It can run many off-the-shelf software applications without modification.
The Eten 3.0 allows you to load many modules into higher memory, I was
able to load the Eten and other multimedia stuff into the upper memory,
still have more than 580K left in lower memory to run application.

Eten does not support scalable fonts, comes with Eten 3.0 are 6 types of
bitmap fonts. but when you print enlarged fonts, the Eten 3.0 provide
a new module called fntdrv.com, which does smooth out the edges, to
achieve the approximate appearance of scalable fonts.

I have printed out some Chinese couplet using Chinese calligraphic font,
people were asking: Who wrote it?

For a product sells less than US$100.00, my personal view about this
product is, it is the best value of Chinese computing you can find on
the market.

I need to emphasize that all the opinion about Eten are my personal
view as a casual home user in the last 5 years, after 3 upgrades and
2 different products.

Reply-To: Micky_Wong@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Canada Laboratory
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
X-X-From: Micky_Wong@vnet.ibm.com
X-Spool-Tags: Micky_Wong@vnet.ibm.com

From CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu Tue Jan 12 08:59:47 1993
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:53:40 CST
Reply-To: --yuan <A10RYT8%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: --yuan <A10RYT8%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      An intellegent input method
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

The latest version of ETen3.1 has a wonderful input (in fact
it has plenty of input methods and seems to getting more
and more) method called Wan4-Sin2 input method.

To me, I am used to using BerPerMerFer input method, a slow
but natural to mandarin-speaking people. Wan-Sin, in fact
is a variant of BerPerMerFer, but is qualified to be called
intelligent BerPerMerFer. According to the menu, this method
is twice of the traditional BerPErMerFer in speed. It also
actively corrects the terms you use in case that you misuse
the term in combination. To me, this method is more than that.
If you use the same input method as me, I strong encourage
you to utilize this new one to speed up your input and
lessen the errors.

To own the brand new input method, I bought a new package
because this new input method is accommodated to ETen3.1
and above only such as UFO-5 (Disc package). It is priced
about NewTaiwan$ 1,250 for the current market or simply pay
the update price $500 with a old package accompanied

In summary, UFO-5 has more bugs than previous version, but
this new input method it provides make it worth to buy
especially to those who use traditional BerPerMerFer input
method.  --yuan

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Mon Mar  8 07:04:54 1993
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Date:         Mon, 8 Mar 1993 13:44:36 MEZ
Reply-To: XKANG@DOSUNI1.RZ.UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "X. Kang" <XKANG@DOSUNI1.RZ.UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE>
Subject:      KC 6.22
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi,
  I have tried KC 6.22 (Guo3 Qiao2) chinese system. It was commercial and
now available on moers2.edu.tw:chinese-pub/chinese-sys/kc/kc.zip.
The author says nothing about if it is free, share or commercial.

  The system is very big occupies over 6 Mb space (load all). It can be
loaded into HIMEM.
  there are over a dozen of input methods, among them also PINYIN, it
describes it as BEIJING-PINYIN. has both traditional and simplified
fonts (16x and 24x) in Kai, li and fangsong, hei styles. the font set
is over 13 thousands.
 There are print drivers for HPLJ, Cannon LJ, spray printer as well as
24 and 9 pin writers.
          It uses big5 code, and can simulate ETen mode.
   Xiangbo

PS: the kc.zip file is about 4 Mb| you must consider this before ftp it.

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Thu Apr  1 20:23:48 1993
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Date:         Thu, 1 Apr 1993 21:16:30 EST
Reply-To: Yolin H u a n g <yih@BRL.MIL>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Yolin H u a n g <yih@BRL.MIL>
Subject:      Re: install KC, read Tang poem
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

you can run install while on harddisk (watch 6. and onward below)

  The readme file from the same directory says:
============================================================
   This Chinese System is contributed by KC INFORMATION CO., LTD. to
all TANET users running on PC.

        Quick Installation Guide

1. Ftp moers2.edu.tw (140.111.2.22) and get kc.zip under the directory
   chinese-pub/chinese-sys/kc.

2. On your machine, make directory \kc60.

3. Issue pkunzip kc.zip \kc60.

4. Change directory cd \kc60 and type install.

5. At this moment, the install program starts.

6. Select A disk.

7. Press Enter key.

8. Under the setup program window select all conditions you want to be
setup,
   then press F10 key.

9. Select A not to be copied again when there are existing files already.

10. Complete installation.

============================================================

  You might want to take a look at the file "kc.bat" (you can copy it to
another batch file, and change name), and look at the line starting with
KCIDM.  This line will load different input methods into RAM.  The magic
is that you can edit this line, to use the input methods of your
preference.  10 input methods are supplied, those are the files ending
with IDM:

        CANTON.IDM      for HongKong Taipan and neighbors
        CHANGJEI.IDM    CangJie
        DAYI.IDM        DaYi (improved CangJie?)
        KC3CORN.IDM     3 corners
        KCEASY.IDM      Easy (another improved CangJie?)
        KCPIN.IDM       PinYin
        KCSJCSMP.IDM    ? (yet another improved CangJie?)
        KCTEL.IDM       telegraph code?
        KCUSRIDM.IDM    home-made
        PHONETIC.IDM    BoPoMoFo

  If you prefer Cantonese, then keep CANTON.IDM in that line. (Is there
any National/Industrial/Communal Stardard for Cantonese spelling?  Maybe
they need to add a ShangHai spelling input one day, since there are so
many JiangNan ShuSheng out there.)  If you prefer PinYin, then keep
KCPIN.IDM in that line.

  The way to switch mode is to use Control+Shift.  If you continue doing
this, it will page you thru all the input modes you have selected.

  I found that this KC 6.22 has a few nice features over ETen 3.1.  In
addition to input methods, the fonts seem to be also nicer.  However,
both of them still use their ASCII fonts (rather not quite up to the
current artistic/aesthetic standard) for printing, and not the (better)
ASCII fonts in printers.  But, for a price of some learning, it opens up
a character set of over 13K to the user. (actually it supports several
codes, in addition to the popular Big5).  It can be used to read the Tang
poems, and other Big5 texts.

  I am still trying to find out ways to tune for better printouts.  The
best way is to get a manual (I checked a few places, couldn't find one.)
But, if you find anything new, please let me know.  Thanks.
__
yolin

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat Apr  3 17:35:31 1993
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Date:         Sat, 3 Apr 1993 17:33:31 -0600
Reply-To: CHUCX@CRF.CUIS.EDU
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: David Chu <CHUCX@CRF.CUIS.EDU>
Organization: Concordia University Information Systems, River Forest, Il.
Subject:      need help for KC
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Hi,

I ftp kc.zip down from mores2.edu.tw and follow the procedure of installation
that described in README file to install it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Quick Installation Guide

1. Ftp moers2.edu.tw (140.111.2.22) and get kc.zip under the directory
   chinese-pub/chinese-sys/kc.

2. On your machine, make directory \kc60.

3. Issue pkunzip kc.zip \kc60.

4. Change directory cd \kc60 and type install.

5. At this moment, the install program starts.

6. Select A disk.

7. Press Enter key.

8. Under the setup program window select all conditions you want to be setup,
   then press F10 key.

9. Select A not to be copied again when there are existing files already.

10. Complete installation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up to this step is OK.  But when I run KC, I get some message such as

"Used input method file existed already or used input method program name has
beed used"

Then the cursor returns back to the DOS prompt.

Is anybody can help?

Thanks for your time.

David
chucx@crf.cuis.edu

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Apr  9 09:48:16 1993
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Date:         Fri, 9 Apr 1993 23:46:06 JST
Reply-To: christian wittern <g53150@SAKURA.KUDPC.KYOTO-U.AC.JP>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: christian wittern <g53150@SAKURA.KUDPC.KYOTO-U.AC.JP>
Subject:      Once again: KC.ZIP
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

Sorry for the unnecesarry noise, the last posting was *NOT* for this
group (but maybe there is somebody out htere, who could even help in
this case??)
Here is, what I intended to post:

Hi, everybody,

There has  been some  questions about a KC.ZIP file from taiwanese
FTP-archives on this list. Unfortunately, I deleted these messages
accidentally, so I can't quote directly (sorry for that!).
I ftped this file and found the following: (This information might
save some  of  the  readers  the  trouble  of  spending  13  hours
downloading this file, like one of the original posters. :-)

1. Unzipping the whole stuff in one directory and then running the
file KC.BAT  did everything  alright on my 386 with ET4000 VGA. It
seemed this batch is designed for this combination.

2. Running the INSTALL.EXE cranks up a message, which asks about a
system disk  in floppy  drives. Nothing in the spare documentation
hints at  this KC.ZIP  being SHAREWARE or FREEware or whatever. In
the contrary,  the README  opens with  a thank  for supporting the
Kuochiao Company.  The legal  status of  this file  seems at least
questionably to me.

3. The  reason for  me, an  ETEN user  since version  1.45  (dated
20.4.88) to  be interested  in KC was the ability to display 24*24
characters on  the screen  - which  is crucial for characters with
many strokes.  Unfortunately, this  feature works  *NOT*  for  the
ET4000 ship,  but might  work, according  to the  README it should
work for ET3000 and some (which??) TRIDENT and OAK S-VGA chips.

I hope this helps

Christian Wittern,  Kyoto

  Internet:  g53150@sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sun May  2 23:57:24 1993
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Date:         Sun, 2 May 1993 23:43:23 CDT
Reply-To: --yuan <A10RYT8%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: --yuan <A10RYT8%NIUCS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      KC 6.22 Free BIG5/GB Chinese, Installation
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: RO

I just read a article which best describe the installation of
kc 6.22. This article is a big5 coding chinese and is accessable
via anonymous ftp from moers2.edu.tw /chinese-pub/newsletter/1993.03/8203-7

          ftp moers2.edu.tw
          login: ftp
          passwd: anything

For your info, kc is a comprehensive chinese system running under DOS.
It used to be a commercial package and now for free. If i remmember
correctly, it supports both the big5, gb and many other coding. It
also supports lot of lot of lot of input methods over ETen.

In case that many of you have interests but unable to read big5 article,
I can convert it to gb coding for you. Just let me know.
By the way, the auther of this article is Tseng Chi-Ming from
minister of education, computing center, TW.  --yuan

From @UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:owner-ccnet-l@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Fri Aug  6 08:01:19 1993
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	id AA01945; Fri, 6 Aug 93 08:01:12 CDT
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Date:         Fri, 6 Aug 1993 20:59:51 +0800
Reply-To: Chris Delucia <a1101006@CCMS.NTU.EDU.TW>
Sender: Chinese Computing Network <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: Chris Delucia <a1101006@CCMS.NTU.EDU.TW>
Subject:      ETEN's Simplified sys uses GB
Comments: To: ccnet-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNET-L <CCNET-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Status: R

> On Thu, 5 Aug 1993 liang@hsng.pl.my wrote:
>
> > > > Now both KuoChiao and ETEN supports both Big5 and Guobiao.

> > > What versions of ETEN and KC are you referring to? I am aware that both
> > > support jian3ti3zi4, but coded in big-5, not GB...

etc...

I can not speak for KuoChiao, but I called ETEN today about their newest
version of Flying Saucer #5 (ver. 3.5), and also asked about their simplified
character chinese system (Yitian jianti zhongwen xitong). The latter _DOES_
use Guobiao, and it contains a utility for changing Big5 encoded traditional
characters into GB simplified, and vice versa. Note that it is a separate
system, so there is no way to enter traditional characters while in this system.
It lists for $2500 NT - I haven't compared prices elsewhere though.

Apparently the main feature of the new traditional character system (ver 3.5)
is that it had two new fonts, of the "outline" (miao3 bian1 zi4 xing2) variety.
I gathered that the upgrade from ver 3.1 was free (provided one turned in their
old disks) w/o the fonts, and these two fonts could be had for $800 NT.

                                Chris DeLucia
                                U. of Washington
                                via Taiwan U., Taipei

