From snow@lucerne.rice.edu  Thu Aug  5 23:25:37 1993
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From: Jun Wu <snow@lucerne.rice.edu>
Message-Id: <9308060425.AA06668@lucerne.rice.edu>
Subject: Misc,Personal:  package #1
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 23:25:37 -0500 (CDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1349      
Status: RO


*************************************************

>From:   IN%"guo@bach.convex.com"  5-AUG-1993 13:07:46.21
To: IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
Subj:   fax signature will be changed

Hi, there,

    I have received hint from a netter, that my fax's (dated 8/3 to
INS HQ and CSSA) usage of 'LADS network' is inappropriate.  And I apologize
to every one of you who thought I used your participance in the group
inappropriate.

    For the rest of you who second my fax and appreciate my efforts,
I would ask that if you still want me to do this for you as a group, I
will either:
    use your email address in the signature,
     or:
    withheld your address upon request.

    I will use:
      A subgroup of concerned applicant @ lads@lucerne.rice.edu
        <signatures> ... <*** signatures>

    Hope this would put an end to this.  Thanks.
                        - Jimmy

--------------------------------------------------------

WE ARE BEHIND 100%.


******************************************************8

>From:	IN%"B0LIU001@ulkyvx.louisville.edu"  "BIN LIU"  5-AUG-1993 23:32:03.80
To:	IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
Subj:	Procedure for LAD in China

I would appreciate informatin regarding the application procedure for
late arrival (follow to join) in China.  

Is I-428 enough? Anything else to accompanying this form?  


Thanks for advice.  

From my@math.luc.edu  Thu Aug  5 23:50:04 1993
Received: from dedekind.math.luc.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA13125); Thu, 5 Aug 93 23:50:04 CDT
Received: from euler.math.luc.edu by dedekind.math.luc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA20818; Thu, 5 Aug 93 23:50:29 CDT
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 23:50:29 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308060450.AA20818@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
Subject: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1
Status: RO

******************************************
>From: luo <U61985%UICVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      I-94
To: lads <lads@lucerne.rice.edu>
Content-Length: 1506

My I-94 is in INS center.  If I go to lOCAL INS, I can only give them a copy of
 it and a letter from foreign student office in my uinversity certified my I-94
 was mailed to INS center by the office.  Do you think I will have trouble when
 I send my application as LAD at LOCAL INS.
Any comments are welcome.
luo


**************************************

>From: anonymous <U42212%UICVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      rejection and acception
To: folks <lads@lucerne.rice.edu>

Folks:
I hope someone can summerize the information about INS offices where
the LAD application is rejected or  accepted. I try to give the list below.
Please add and correct it( update on 8/5).

Accepted: Los Angeles, Houston, San Francisco, Memphis, Detroit, Dallas,
Indianapolis, Hawaii, Boston, Miami, Portland....

Rejected: Chicago, New York,...

Accepted but troublesome: ...


*****************************************

>From: LX4497%ALBNYVMS.bitnet@uacsc2.albany.edu
Subject: LAD form filling
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu

I am a CSPA pricipal. My wife and son are LAD. In Form I-485 Part 3. section B,
   they need to fill item "Apply with you ?". How should my wife fill this item
   ?  Should she fill "yes" or "no" ?


*******************************************

>From: AGYIY@acvax.inre.asu.edu
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu

HELP!!!
HI,
I am a LAD. My visa is F2(passport). But the LA INS officer wrote F1 in my I-94
and I-20 when I entered US two years ago.
Is that a big problem? What should I do now?
Thank you!



----- End Included Message -----


From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Fri Aug  6 09:58:34 1993
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA11239); Fri, 6 Aug 93 09:58:34 CDT
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA04053; Fri, 6 Aug 93 10:57:10 EDT
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 10:48:35 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308061448.AA20981@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
Subject: package#1 about Forms and Certificate
Status: RO

Sorry for the delay of this packages:
================================================================
==  The following are packed information form LAD-network.    ==
==  Please address your correspondence to the sender.         ==
==  To sign on / off, mail to "pei@nit.pactel.com"            ==
==  To contribute information mail to "lads@lucerne.rice.edu" ==
================================================================
                       begin  
==========
>From:   IN%"LX4497%ALBNYVMS.bitnet@uacsc2.albany.edu"  5-AUG-1993 21:43:08.89
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   LAD form filling

I am a CSPA pricipal. My wife and son are LAD. In Form I-485 Part 3. section B,
   they need to fill item "Apply with you ?". How should my wife fill this item
   ?  Should she fill "yes" or "no" ?

==========
>From: AGYIY@acvax.inre.asu.edu
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
cc:

HELP!!!
HI,
I am a LAD. My visa is F2(passport). But the LA INS officer wrote F1 in my I-94
and I-20 when I entered US two years ago.
Is that a big problem? What should I do now?
Thank you!

==========
>From:   IN%"xie@ds1.uwyo.edu"  5-AUG-1993 22:53:21.65
To:     IN%"CCNL@utarlvm1.uta.edu"  "Multiple recipients of list CCNL"
CC:     
Subj:   RE: Help needed: on filing form I-485 for LAD

>        (1) In Part 2. should a LAD choose (B) as an answer?
>            Is it necessary to put something like "Following to join a
>        CSPA Principal "?

Either checking (b) without any more note, or checking (h) with a note
"spouse of CSPA pincipal applicant" has been accepted by local INS
here.

>        (2) In Part 3. (B) List your present husband/wife Blanket
>            In the information about CSPA Principal, that is, Husband
>                or wife, what should I answer for "Applying with you"?

Answer "NO" to "applying with you".

===========
>From:   IN%"YU@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu"  5-AUG-1993 22:12:34.26
To:     IN%"SGU@draco.rutgers.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   RE: Package

Hello,

   I strongly agree with your post regarding birth certificate.  I do think
we need Dr. Zhao and IFCSS to lobby INS about this very important issue.
Lots of people are simply impossible to obtain anofficial b-certificate
 official b-certificate.
I further believe it can be accompplished through normal communication
with INS HQ.  I was very disappointed to see the cable released a few days
ago did not mention b-certificate at all.  We need to convince the INS that
China did not issue B-certificate at all before 1980 (?), and other secondary
evidence should be OK to substitute B-certificate.  I do not understand why
IFCSS did nothing about this important issue.  In fact, I do not think IFCSS
did enough about LADS.  Let's unite and try to figure out how to convince
INS that other evidence such as passport is good to substitue B-certificate.

Mulong Yu

============
>From:   IN%"YU@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu"  5-AUG-1993 22:22:30.06
To:     IN%"LADS@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   Birth Certificate???

Hello everybody,

    Do you think it is good idea to lobby Dr. Zhao and IFCSS, let them take
care of tremendous problem related to birth certificate?  I see enough
complains and uneasiness about this issue.  Even some poeple claimed lucky
because their dependents' application were accepted without official
birth certificate.  But, why known what is going to happy when local INS
birth certificate.  But, why known what is going to happy when local INS

===========
>From GW1BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Thu Aug  5 06:04:42 1993
To: jiang@MATH.ORST.EDU

I read your mail from LADs net.  Your mentioned that Chinese citizenship
I.D. can be used as birth certificate.  I cheked my I.D.(Chinese
citizenship), it did not show the birth place.  Do you know if INS
officier ask him that this I.D. did give birth place?  Your answer
will be deeply appreciated.  I don't have birth certificate.
Thank you very much.

===========
>From jiang Thu Aug  5 17:06:56 1993
To: GW1BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cc: jiang


I just came back from Portland INS for my son to apply for PR. Three of us
went there today. Neither of us has birth certificate notirized directly in
China. Everything went fine.

One of us only showed a copy of her Chinese cityzenship ID. (Yes, there is no
birth place on it.) She was only asked to show her original Chinese citizenship
ID. That's it ! Her application was accepted. The INS officer didn't mention
anything about the birth place.

Three of us obtained working permits immediately.(My son is more than 14 years
old.) One more thing is that the I-94 Forms of all of us were taken by the INS.
The INS officer said "You don't need it any more. It goes to your file." Will
it bring any trouble later ? I don't know.

================
>From: luo <U61985%UICVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      I-94
To: lads <lads@lucerne.rice.edu>

My I-94 is in INS center.  If I go to lOCAL INS, I can only give them a copy of
 it and a letter from foreign student office in my uinversity certified my I-94
 was mailed to INS center by the office.  Do you think I will have trouble when
 I send my application as LAD at LOCAL INS.
Any comments are welcome.
luo

=================




From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Fri Aug  6 10:06:30 1993
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA11254); Fri, 6 Aug 93 10:06:30 CDT
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA04287; Fri, 6 Aug 93 11:05:05 EDT
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 10:56:29 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308061456.AA21050@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
Subject: Resend Package#1 about Forms and Certificate
Status: RO

Sorry! The previous package is not complete:
================================================================
==  The following are packed information form LAD-network.    ==
==  Please address your correspondence to the sender.         ==
==  To sign on / off, mail to "pei@nit.pactel.com"            ==
==  To contribute information mail to "lads@lucerne.rice.edu" ==
================================================================
                       begin  
==========

>From:   IN%"LX4497%ALBNYVMS.bitnet@uacsc2.albany.edu"  5-AUG-1993 21:43:08.89
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   LAD form filling

I am a CSPA pricipal. My wife and son are LAD. In Form I-485 Part 3. section B,
   they need to fill item "Apply with you ?". How should my wife fill this item
   ?  Should she fill "yes" or "no" ?

============

>From @ricevm1.rice.edu:ZXD100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU  Thu Aug  5 23:17:39 1993
Date:    Thu, 5 Aug 93 23:06 EDT
>From: <ZXD100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: package
To: SGU@draco.rutgers.edu
Cc: lads@spike.rice.edu
In-Reply-To:  SGU AT draco.rutgers.edu -- Thu, 05 Aug 1993 22:13:47 -0400 (EDT)

To fill the " apply with you", anwser "yes", but write "seperately" in the blan
k. good luck.


==========

>From: AGYIY@acvax.inre.asu.edu
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
cc:

HELP!!!
HI,
I am a LAD. My visa is F2(passport). But the LA INS officer wrote F1 in my I-94
and I-20 when I entered US two years ago.
Is that a big problem? What should I do now?
Thank you!

==========

>From:   IN%"xie@ds1.uwyo.edu"  5-AUG-1993 22:53:21.65
To:     IN%"CCNL@utarlvm1.uta.edu"  "Multiple recipients of list CCNL"
CC:     
Subj:   RE: Help needed: on filing form I-485 for LAD

>        (1) In Part 2. should a LAD choose (B) as an answer?
>            Is it necessary to put something like "Following to join a
>        CSPA Principal "?

Either checking (b) without any more note, or checking (h) with a note
"spouse of CSPA pincipal applicant" has been accepted by local INS
here.

>        (2) In Part 3. (B) List your present husband/wife Blanket
>            In the information about CSPA Principal, that is, Husband
>                or wife, what should I answer for "Applying with you"?

Answer "NO" to "applying with you".

===========

>From:   IN%"YU@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu"  5-AUG-1993 22:12:34.26
To:     IN%"SGU@draco.rutgers.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   RE: Package

Hello,

   I strongly agree with your post regarding birth certificate.  I do think
we need Dr. Zhao and IFCSS to lobby INS about this very important issue.
Lots of people are simply impossible to obtain anofficial b-certificate
 official b-certificate.
I further believe it can be accompplished through normal communication
with INS HQ.  I was very disappointed to see the cable released a few days
ago did not mention b-certificate at all.  We need to convince the INS that
China did not issue B-certificate at all before 1980 (?), and other secondary
evidence should be OK to substitute B-certificate.  I do not understand why
IFCSS did nothing about this important issue.  In fact, I do not think IFCSS
did enough about LADS.  Let's unite and try to figure out how to convince
INS that other evidence such as passport is good to substitue B-certificate.

Mulong Yu

============

>From:   IN%"YU@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu"  5-AUG-1993 22:22:30.06
To:     IN%"LADS@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   Birth Certificate???

Hello everybody,

    Do you think it is good idea to lobby Dr. Zhao and IFCSS, let them take
care of tremendous problem related to birth certificate?  I see enough
complains and uneasiness about this issue.  Even some poeple claimed lucky
because their dependents' application were accepted without official
birth certificate.  But, why known what is going to happy when local INS
birth certificate.  But, why known what is going to happy when local INS

===========

>From GW1BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Thu Aug  5 06:04:42 1993
To: jiang@MATH.ORST.EDU

I read your mail from LADs net.  Your mentioned that Chinese citizenship
I.D. can be used as birth certificate.  I cheked my I.D.(Chinese
citizenship), it did not show the birth place.  Do you know if INS
officier ask him that this I.D. did give birth place?  Your answer
will be deeply appreciated.  I don't have birth certificate.
Thank you very much.

===========

>From jiang Thu Aug  5 17:06:56 1993
To: GW1BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cc: jiang


I just came back from Portland INS for my son to apply for PR. Three of us
went there today. Neither of us has birth certificate notirized directly in
China. Everything went fine.

One of us only showed a copy of her Chinese cityzenship ID. (Yes, there is no
birth place on it.) She was only asked to show her original Chinese citizenship
ID. That's it ! Her application was accepted. The INS officer didn't mention
anything about the birth place.

Three of us obtained working permits immediately.(My son is more than 14 years
old.) One more thing is that the I-94 Forms of all of us were taken by the INS.
The INS officer said "You don't need it any more. It goes to your file." Will
it bring any trouble later ? I don't know.

================

>From: luo <U61985%UICVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      I-94
To: lads <lads@lucerne.rice.edu>

My I-94 is in INS center.  If I go to lOCAL INS, I can only give them a copy of
 it and a letter from foreign student office in my uinversity certified my I-94
 was mailed to INS center by the office.  Do you think I will have trouble when
 I send my application as LAD at LOCAL INS.
Any comments are welcome.
luo

=================

>From:   IN%"nwang@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu"  "Ning Wang"  6-AUG-1993 02:37:58.63
To:     IN%"SGU@draco.rutgers.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   RE:  package
I have a friend with some case  with you, She went to INS at San Antonio Tx
yesterday, and gave copy of I-94 and letter from foreign student office.Her 
appication was accepted. 

Good Luck

NW

=================

>From:   IN%"gsbs1041@UTSPH.SPH.UTH.TMC.EDU"  5-AUG-1993 23:09:27.63
To:     IN%"SGU@draco.rutgers.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   RE: package

With the copy of your I-94, I think you can to to the INS without any
problem. I just come back from HOUSTON INS to apply for my wife, the even
don't want the original of the marrige licence and birth certificate.
The INS officer even asked me if I want the original back so that they
could just keep a copy of it. But be sure to have the copy of your
I-94 form's both sides.
Good luck!!!

=================

>From:   IN%"gliu@ucdavis.edu"  6-AUG-1993 00:28:46.40
To:     IN%"lads@spike.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   Format of birth or marrige certificate

Hi, Dear netters; 
        I have asked my relatives who are in China to get birth and
marriage certificates for my wife and daughter. Because that is a small
town, I concern they may not rearly know the right formats of these two
kinds of certificates. 
        So, I would like to ask anyone to post the correct formats of the
birth and marriage which have already went through the INS office. A
simple example is good enough. (Maybe they know this, well, maybe I
concern too much, sorry).
        Thank you for your attention and time!

==================

>From:   IN%"B0LIU001@ulkyvx.louisville.edu"  "BIN LIU"  5-AUG-1993 23:32:03.80
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
Subj:   Procedure for LAD in China

I would appreciate informatin regarding the application procedure for
late arrival (follow to join) in China.  

Is I-428 enough? Anything else to accompanying this form?  

Thanks for advice.

=======================

>From:   IN%"IZZYOS4@mvs.oac.ucla.edu"  "Weizhong He"  6-AUG-1993 01:15:22.68
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   Dependent in China

Can anyone tell me how I can fill the I-824 form for my son who is in China now
 and if there are any other forms besides I-824 form?

=======================

>From GUO@mps.ohio-state.edu  Fri Aug  6 10:45:43 1993
To: lads@spike.rice.edu

I guess there are three points in a certificate: parents' name,
time when you were born, where you were born.  It doesn't matter
how you arrange them as long as you have them on your certificate.
Most Chinese birth certificate will not put parents names on it.
As to the marrige certificate, you should have your name and your
spouse's name and place and time the marrige happened.
This is only my personal guess for your reference only.

========================

>From JIA_Z@nuacc.acns.nwu.edu  Fri Aug  6 10:46:48 1993
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 08:47 CDT
Subject: LAD's I-485 filed to Northern Service Center
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu

LAD's I-485 filed to Northern Service Center
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My wife and my son are LADs in F-2.  We prepared I-485 application packages two
weeks ago.  We put two sets of I-485 applications in one envelop and mailed to
INS Northern Service Center on 7/28/93.  My son received his receipt yesterday
and my wife received hers today.  The receipt dates are 7/30/93.  Two A-numbers
were given.  The receipt numbers are LIN-93-209-50XXX.  Three paragraphs in
their receipts are the same as in my receipt except one that informed me to do
fingerprinting.  Information about their applications has been available in the
phone (402) 437-5218.

I post our experience here just for your reference.  I don't have any further
information.  Make your own judgment and decision.
Good Luck !!!!!

James 8/5/93
________________________________________________________________________________

List of CSPA-Family-Member PR Application and Attachments:

   1. Form I-485 (Application to Adjust Status), completed
   2. Copy of receipt for filing I-485 for CSPA-principal
   3. Application fee (A check of $120 payable to US-INS)
   4. Two photographs of ADIT-style
   5. Translation of marriage certificate, certified
   6. Translation of birth certificate, certified
   7. Form FD-258 (fingerprint Card), completed at XXXXXXXX Police Department
   8. Form I-693 (Medical Examination Report), in a sealed envelop, completed
   9. Form G325A (Biographic Information), completed
  10. Copy of Form I-94 (Arrival/Departure Record)
  11. Form I-134 (Affidavit of Support), completed by XXXXXXXXX XXX
  12. Letter of XXXXXXXXX XXX's employment from XXXXXXXXXXXX University
  13. Bank statement of XXXXXXXXX XXX's account at XXX bank
  14. Form 9003 (Additional Questions from IRS), completed
  15. Copy of letter showing waiver of two-year foreign residency requirement
  16. Copy of I-20 (Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status)
  17. Copy of IAP-66 (Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor Status)
  18. Photocopy of all pages of passport, notarized
________________________________________________________________________________
List of CSPA-Family-Member PR Application and Attachments (applicant under 14):

   1. Form I-485 (Application to Adjust Status), completed
   2. Copy of receipt for filing I-485 for CSPA-principal
   3. Application fee (A check of $95 payable to US-INS)
   4. Two photographs of ADIT-style
   5. Translation of birth certificate, certified
   6. Translation of parents' marriage certificate, certified
   7. Form I-693 (Medical Examination Report), in a sealed envelop, completed
   8. Copy of Form I-94 (Arrival/Departure Record)
   9. Form I-134 (Affidavit of Support), completed by XXXXXXXXX XXX
  10. Letter of XXXXXXXXX XXX's employment from XXXXXXXXXXXX University
  11. Bank statement of XXXXXXXXX XXX's account at XXX bank
  12. Form 9003 (Additional Questions from IRS), completed
  13. Copy of letter showing waiver of two-year foreign residency requirement
  14. Copy of I-20 (Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status)
  15. Copy of IAP-66 (Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor Status)
  16. Photocopy of all pages of passport, notarized
________________________________________________________________________________
BIRTH CERTIFICATE

This is to certify that:

     XXXXXXXXX XXX, male, was born on XXX XX, 19XX in XXXXXX, XXXXXXX Province,
     People's Republic of China.

Issued by XXXXX, XXXXXXX, XXXXXXX Province, People's Republic of China (SEAL).
Date of issuance: XXX X, 19XX
________________________________________________________________________________
MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE  No. XXX

This is to certify that:

            XXXXXX XXXX, male,   age XX,  and
            XXXXXX XXXX, female, age XX

were united in matrimony on a voluntary basis, as per prescription of the
People's Republic of China Marriage Law.

Issued by the People's Government of XXXXXXX City, XXXXXX District, XXXXXXX,
XXXXXXX Province, People's Republic of China (SEAL).
Date of issuance: XXX XX, 19XX
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

			End
 


From shengj@acf2.nyu.edu  Fri Aug  6 10:50:47 1993
Received: from acf2.NYU.EDU by spike.rice.edu (AA11497); Fri, 6 Aug 93 10:50:47 CDT
Received: by acf2.NYU.EDU (5.61/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
	id AA02681; Fri, 6 Aug 93 11:49:18 -0400
From: shengj@acf2.nyu.edu (shengj)
Message-Id: <9308061549.AA02681@acf2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Package1.1: Status of Local INS
To: lads@spike.rice.edu, comm@lucerne.rice.edu
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 11:49:18 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: shengj@acf2.nyu.edu (shengj)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1224      
Status: RO

Hi, netters,
The following is a list of local INS offices' status on LAD issue. For
those wish withhold their addresses please tell me. The default
is posting the addresses for netters' reference.
This list is updated every day and posted every evening at 9pm. Netters
may still go their INS office even its status may be "reject" and tell me your
experience there so that this list can be mostly updated. For those offices
which are still rejecting LAD applications, we may organize ourselves and
lobby higher authorities through suitable channels and push them to accept
applications.

DATE: 08/06/1993

              	STATUS	SOURCE
Boston          accept  wl@cfaitamp.harvard.edu
                        notes: 2year waiver may not be needed from 08/09
Chicago       	reject

Dallas??      	reject	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

Detroit         accept

Hawaii          accept

Houston       	accept	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

Indianapolis    accept

Los Angeles     accept

Memphis         accept

Miami           accept

Pittsburgh    	accept	Bin_Luo@ius4.ius.cs.cmu.edu
			notes: 2year waiver may be needed before applying PR

Portland        accept

San Antonio	accept	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

San Francisco   accept

From my@math.luc.edu  Fri Aug  6 12:59:13 1993
Received: from dedekind.math.luc.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA12096); Fri, 6 Aug 93 12:59:13 CDT
Received: from euler.math.luc.edu by dedekind.math.luc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA21488; Fri, 6 Aug 93 12:59:35 CDT
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 12:59:35 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308061759.AA21488@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
Subject: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1.1
Status: RO

*************************************************************************
>From:    <DXW115@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: J-1 LADs
To:      c492347@mizzou1.missouri.edu
 
Hi, Netters. Thank you for your responds about my J-1 LADs problem. I have
contacted a lawyer in DC and a Chinese consul in NY. Her are some messages
I got. (1) J-1 LADs can apply PR only after obtaining a waiver letter from
USIA. Some local INS may accept the application, but it will probably be
rejected. The application of waiver can not be handed as the same time as
the application of PR. (2) To obtain the two years waiver, you can
a. obain a "No Objection letter" from Chinese Embassy. But the Chinese consul
said a person can apply a waiver only he/she wants to change from J-1 to F-1
or to H-1 or J-2, F-2 ect. My wife is going to gradurate soon. No these
categories is suitable for her, so that the consul refused to help her.
b. fill in a Form I-612. You can ensure a lawyer to do this or do it at
your local INS by yourself. I am contacting a lawyer in DC. I'll tell you
the news when I get it from the lawyer.

Enclosed are the messages I got from the others about J-1 LADs.
 
Message-ID: <3717.744471710@IUS4.IUS.CS.CMU.EDU>
>From: Bin LUO <Bin_Luo@IUS4.IUS.CS.CMU.EDU>

I am not sure if you can apply PR right now, but I think the first thing you
should begin to do is to get a waiver for your J-1. One way to get a waiver
is by chinese embassy, you can ask chinese consulate in your area how to do
it. They may need your application, the letter from your working place in
china, the copy of your IAP-66 form, your employment letter here, and $50
check, you also are required to fill a special form giving by chinese
consulate.

Please read the relulation how to waive 2-year forgien residence
requirement(I found it in some mail), and find a good way to solve this
problem first.

Bin
>From: leiwang@ee.umn.edu (Lei Wang)
Message-Id: <9308041535.AA08837@ee.umn.edu>
To: dxw115@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: J-1 LAD

Hi, I concern the issue of J-1 LAD. The INS in Menneapolis accepts the
application of LAD. But nobody knows what the decision they make will be.
Please let me know the information about this issue.
Thanks!

Lei Wang.

>From: sgao@athena.ess.ucla.edu (S. Gao)
Message-Id: <9308042334.AA21005@athena.ess.ucla.edu>
To: DXW115@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Re:  How J-1 LADs can apply PR
Cc: sgao@athena.ess.ucla.edu

Hi there,
My wife came here as a J-1 visitor after the magic day. She is now a
J-1 graduate student at UCLA. A tricky thing is that we visited Moscow
last year and when we came back, she got a J-1 student visa without
the 2 year requirement at the U.S. embassy of Moscow. BUT we she
asked our OISS officers here she was told that she still had the
requirement. Now she is applying for the waiver from U.S information
Agency. God knows if it can be approved.
Under such situation she doesn't plan to apply PR this August, unless
the waiver can be approved.
What's your plan?
S. Gao at UCLA.
 
>From: "b" <C492347@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
To:   dxw115@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: J-1 holder

Hi, I read your E-mail message: How J-1 LADs can apply PR. I have the same
  situation. I am an F-1 holder, but my husband and my daughter are J-1 and
  J-2 visa status. I have no idea when and how my LADs can apply. Should they
  first file I-612 (two year waiver) or at the same time? Will INS accept
  their application for PR before getting the two-year waiver? How to get the
  two-year waiver? What is the procedure for the two-year waiver? What's your
  idea and suggestion? I hope we contact each other to solve this problem.
      look forward to hearing from you!
 
>From: SHI BAI <SHIBAI@PHYSC1.BYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: How J-1 LADs can apply PR
To: DXW115@psuvm.psu.edu
 
Hi, I got the same problem as you do. I went to local INS Office at Salt
Lake City  yesterday with my wife and handed in the application. The lady
working there told me that they will accept any application no matter what
the LAD's current status is. Now, What is your information?
-Shi Bai
*************************************************************************
>From: lin bu <LBU%SUVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Message-id: <9308061618.AA07922@lucerne.rice.edu>
X-Envelope-to: sgu
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi:
could you tell me that the two-year waiver letter come from where? Is it
true that I could apply PR (for LAD) with a letter form our guvernment or I
need another letter from either US information agency or INS ?  Thank you.
*************************************************************************
>From: Rugang Qi <rqi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Two year waiver for J-2 possible?
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
 
Hi, netters:

Is anyone have better information on the issue of "two year waiver" for J-2.  I
was a J-1 and Filed a CSPA PR adjustment.  How to deal with the J-2 two year
issue for now?
Thanks for your attention.
*************************************************************************
>From:    <DXW115@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: How J-1 LADs can apply PR
To:      lads@lucerne.rice.edu

Hi, Netters. Do you have a J-1 LAD who wants to apply PR in the August?
My J-1 LAD meets the problem of two years waiver before filing the application.
How do you solve this problem? Any idea is appreciated. If you know
somebody else who is facing the same problem, please send me his or her
address or ask him or her to contact me on the e-mail. I also have some
information about this issue.
*************************************************************************


 

From shengj@acf2.nyu.edu  Fri Aug  6 14:39:39 1993
Received: from acf2.NYU.EDU by spike.rice.edu (AA12387); Fri, 6 Aug 93 14:39:39 CDT
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	id AA16191; Fri, 6 Aug 93 15:38:18 -0400
From: shengj@acf2.nyu.edu (shengj)
Message-Id: <9308061938.AA16191@acf2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Working with IFCSS, NCCA
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 15:38:18 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3997      
Status: RO

>yuang@CCVAX.CCS.CSUS.EDU  writes:
>
>
>Hi, Dear Friends:
>	To  organize our group more efficiently, I have following 
>	suggestion and opinion:
>
>The Current problems and our goal:
>	As some netter point out there are "too many questions , too 
>	few answers". I think this means our group lack of professional 
>	involving.  We need some help from outside of LAD.  How we get 
>	these help? How we can use all of the current resources effectively? 
>	How we can push NCCA,  IFCSS, INS help us and involve our problems, 
>	this probably is our present goal. Besides, we find ourselves lack 
>	of manpower, every person is busy and can not spend too much time 
>	consuming. 
>
>Some suggestions :
>
>1.      As some body point out, we probably need a committee. 
>	But I think a committee  should  consist of several coodinates.  
>	Every coordinate is only responsible for the relationship with 
>	a specific organization or specific  issue. The coordinate should 
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	establish some regular communication with a organization , 
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	such as Ifcss, NCCA.  Every two or three days,  he  reports our 
>	group's growing news, concern, suggestion to the organization, or to 
>	draft the letter to express our opinions. If they(IFCSS or NCCA) 
>	don't respond, a coordinate should doing some research, to know 
>	about this organization and to find out how to make them respond. 
>	if they respond, a coordinate should transfer their message to LADs. 
>	Believe or not, maintain a regular communication with IFCSS or NCCA 
>	is important, if we don't push them, don't  inform them enough 
>	information, don't have some kind of relationship with them, how we 
>	can expect their  big help.
>
>2.      Also,  I think we should establish a good relationship with
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>	CND-news editors. I remember last issue of CND-US had information 
>	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        exchange package regarding LAD issue, if we can have CND publish 
>	this package regularly, or have them establish a LAD directory at 
>	CND.org ftp site, ( I think under this directory, should have 
>	several category similarly to currently our LAD editing category) 
>	we probably don't have to  maintain our own editing stuff and have 
>	these stuff members doing coordinate's job.
>	
>	The reason I want to suggest to make change is that I find  many 
>	questions in lad net are  so simple and repeatedly again and again, 
>	later maybe we just tell those person go cnd.org ftp site to find 
>	what he wants. For some very complicate individual case ( I assume 
>	there isn't many) , if  it posts  only at LAD net, I doubt whether 
>	they can get a satisfaction answer. But if it posts at CND news , 
>	their chance are more. I would suggest , If we have a organization  
>	of LAD, our goal is serve 95% of LAD, but not  100%. To reach the 
>	100%  of satisfaction always costs too much, some time even 
>	impossible.

    I agree with you totally.
    Right now LADnet is simply info-sharing links among CS who have LADs.
Unlike IFCSS, NCCA, it is not a organization. In the long run, we have to work
with existing CS organizations IFCSS, NCCA lobbying U.S. government on LAD
issue since it is very unlikely most LADs will get PR soon.
   
>
>	Finally I would say the rule here  should be " One  serves for 
>                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	every body, every body serve for one".
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     I remember I organized a donation within my department last year after
I saw Dr.Zhao's ads on World Journal. I got very positive response from 
fellow students. I strongly believe if we work as a group bonded by common
destination, we will succeed.

>					Yuan Gang


Jonathan J. Sheng
Theoretical Chemistry, NYU {\\{ (212)998-8439  shengj@acf2.nyu.edu }//}

From snow@lucerne.rice.edu  Fri Aug  6 15:26:15 1993
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From: Jun Wu <snow@lucerne.rice.edu>
Message-Id: <9308062026.AA09227@lucerne.rice.edu>
Subject: posting restricted now
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 15:26:15 -0500 (CDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 815       
Status: RO

Hi, netters,
	The posting is restricted now. Please post your contributions to
lads@lucerne.rice.edu, again, lads@lucerne.rice.edu.
	Postings to lads@spike.rice.edu is restricted, your posting to
that account will be bounced back from now on. So don't do it.


Jun
-- 
                                 ^-^    Owlnet
                                (O O)   School of Engineering Network
                                ( v )
       o o o o o o . . .    __=--m-m--=_T__ ____======_T__ ____========_T_____
     o      _____          ||             | |            | |               |
   .][__n_n_|DD[  ====____  |   Jun  Wu   | |  ECE Rice  | | Snow@Rice.EDU | |
  >(________|__|_[________]_|_____________|_|____________|_|_______________|_|
 __/oo OOOOO oo`  ooo  ooo  'o^o       o^o` 'o^o      o^o` 'o^o         o^o`

From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Fri Aug  6 17:39:48 1993
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 18:29:50 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308062229.AA26373@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: Package#2 on Forms and Certificate
Status: RO

=====================================================
== The following are packed information on         ==
== Forms and Certificate from  LAD-network         ==                 
== ADDRESS your correspondence to the SENDER       ==
== To sign on/off, mail to "pei@nit.pactel.com"    ==        
== To post,        mail to "lads@lucerne.rice.edu" ==      
=====================================================
begin  
>From r2jy2@dax.cc.uakron.edu Fri Aug  6 16:57:46 1993
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 17:54:53 -0400
>From: r2jy2@dax.cc.uakron.edu (Jie Yang)
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Subject: Format
Content-Length: 959

For your reference, the following are the formats of birth certificate
and marriage certificate copied from notarial certificate notarized by
a provincial capital city in China.

(1) Birth certification

                        NOTARIAL CERTIFICATE
                         
                                     (92) xx yy  No. *****
This is to certify that XXX, mail, was born on xxxxx, 19**, at X city,
Y province. His father is xy and his mother is xx.
  
                                        Notary: xyz
                                        ** Notary Public Office
                                        ** Province
                                        The People's republic of China
                                        August 1, 1992

(2)Marriage certification
                        NOTARIAL CERTIFICATE
                         
                                     (92) xx yy  No. *****
This is to certify that xx (Female, born on ****, 19**), an yy (mail,  born 
on xxxxx, 19**) were married on ****, 19** at X city, Y province. 
  
                                        Notary: xyz
                                        ** Notary Public Office
                                        ** Province
                                        The People's republic of China
                                        August 1, 1992

===========================================================================

>From:    Weizhong He   <IZZYOS4@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
>Would you tell me whose name should be put in part 1 of form I-824, my name or
>my son's name, how to fill out in part 2 and 3?
>Thank you. Talk to you later.
*************************
>From:   IN%"LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu"  "Mi Mi"  6-AUG-1993 16:49:31.99
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   I-824 form

How to file out I-824 (Unauthorized Analysis)
Part 1. Your name (petitioner) and information,
Part 2. Application Type: (c): X-town, China, for follow to join immigration
visa for XXX
Part 3. Type of Petition: I-485;
        Filing Receipt #: (your I-797 for I-485,like EAC-93-216-XXXXX)
        Date of filing  : (Notice Date on your I-797)
        Date Approved   : None

        Name etc: Your family members name and information
Part 4: Your signature.

Checklist:
1) $30 application fee,
2) Copy of your I-797
3) Birth certificate,
4) Marriage Certificate,
5) I-824

You have to include a cover letter to let INS know what are you up to

Mi Mi

==========================================================================
End
 


From my@math.luc.edu  Fri Aug  6 17:42:51 1993
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	id AA21932; Fri, 6 Aug 93 17:43:17 CDT
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 17:43:17 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308062243.AA21932@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1.2
Status: RO

************************************************************************
>From yxiao@crsa.bu.edu Fri Aug  6 14:49:57 1993
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 15:39:05 -0400
>From: yxiao@crsa.bu.edu (Yan Xiao)
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
 
Hi, Netters,

Can a B2 LAD file the application if he is out of status for a quit long 
period?
Any answer would be appreciated.

-Yan Xiao
yxiao@crsa.bu.edu
> 
> 
> Hi, Netters,
> 
> Can a B2 LAD file the application if he is out of status for a quit long 
> period?
> Any answer would be appreciated.
> 
> -Yan Xiao
> yxiao@crsa.bu.edu
> 

Very tough question.  Should hire a lawer.

netter
******************************************************************************
To: my@math.luc.edu
Subject: DED questions
 
My wife came on F-2.  I fell into DED in early 1993 (so she was in DED
accordingly).  After I filed CSPA application, she lost her status.
A few days after 7/1/93, she managed to get her own H-1.  So although
she currently is in lawful status, she didn't CONTINUOUSLY maintain her 
lawful status.  Is she still eligible to apply for PR based on her relationship 
with me?  If not, what's workaround for this?

Thank you very much.  I'd appreciate it.


J. Chen
******************************************************************************

To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Subject: help needed !
 
Hi, folks. I really need your help about LAD's application. My wife is a LAD.
We got married after April 1990 and she is not with me right now (but in U.S.).
I want to know if she can apply for adjustment or not and how. Thanks.

Min   Missouri
******************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 15:08:56 PDT
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Subject: Def. of LADs

Hi,

Couple of my friends, who do not have accesses to the e-mail, asked to post this question. They have different situations.

1.	They married before 4/11/90, but the spouse is still in China.
2.	They married after 4/11/90, but the spouse in China.
3.	They are planning to marry after my friend get GC under CSPA.

	3.1 If their another half in US.
	3.2 If their another half in China.

Do you know if they are counted as LADs? Thanks for the info.

John

******************************************************************************
Subject: Question!
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Content-Length: 3033

I got a question about the defination of the eligible dependents
of CSPA principal.  The floowing is a paragraphy related to the
depentents in the regulation isssued on July 1, 1993 delieved thru
e-mail, (Immigration and Naturalization  Service. FR Doc. 93-15782
Filed 6-30-93; 8:45 am, BILLING CODE 4410-10-M)

**************
   Family members unable to  qualify  for   CSPA   adjustment  of
status may be eligible for lawful permanent resident status under
other provisions of the Act.  Those family members whose  spousal
or  parental  relationship  was  established before the principal
CSPA  alien's application for adjustment of  status  is  approved
may  be  eligible  for derivative immigrant status as employment-
based preference immigrants accompanying or following to join the
CSPA   principal.  A  child  born  of a qualifying marriage which
existed at the time of the principal
 CSPA  applicant's adjustment of status  will  be  considered  to
have  been acquired prior to the principal applicant's adjustment
of status, and may also be eligible for accompanying or following
to  join derivative employment-based preference immigrant status.
A qualified spouse or unmarried child who is under  21  years  of
age  at the time he or she is issued an immigrant visa or granted
adjustment of status may be considered as following to  join  the
principal   CSPA alien regardless of the amount of time which has
elapsed since the  CSPA principal's  status  was  adjusted.  Such
family  members  who  are  accompanying  or  following  to join a
principal  CSPA  applicant may derive the  principal  applicant's
employment-based  third  preference  category and may be accorded
the principal's priority date. These family members must  satisfy
the usual requirements for adjustment of status or immigrant visa
issuance, including the requirement that an immigrant visa number
be immediately available when the immigrant visa is issued or the
application for adjustment of status is filed.  When  the  family
member's visa number becomes current, the family member may apply
for an  immigrant  visa  abroad  or,  if  he  or  she  meets  the
requirements  of section 245 of the Act, for adjustment of status
in the United States.

********************


Therefore, if you get married before you are approved to have perment
residence status (none of us is given the approval yet, by my understanding,
your spouse can go ahead to apply to adjust her/his status between Aug.1, 1993
and Aug. 31, 1993 according to the news forwarded thru e-mail (evne you
just get married in today, your spouse should be eligible by the above
defination).  But our
local INS said the defination of depentent (specific here for spouse) is
that you are getting marriend before The Admintritive Order issued by former
President Bush on April, 1990.  Therefore, according to her explantion,
married spouses after the date are not include.  As I know there are alot
of students are getting married later than that.

Best Wishes!

a student in Albany, NY

**********************************************************************
 

From shengj@acf2.nyu.edu  Fri Aug  6 18:44:42 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA13564); Fri, 6 Aug 93 18:44:47 CDT
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	id AA01173; Fri, 6 Aug 93 19:43:21 -0400
From: shengj@acf2.nyu.edu (shengj)
Message-Id: <9308062343.AA01173@acf2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Local INS status: Package#1.2
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 19:43:20 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1718      
Status: RO

Hi, netters,
The following is a list of local INS offices' status on LAD issue upto
7:30PM, 08/06. For those wish withhold their addresses please tell me. 
The default is posting the addresses for netters' reference.
This list is updated every day and posted every evening. Netters
may still go their INS office even status is rejected and tell me your
experience there so that this list can be most updated.

========================================================================
              	STATUS	SOURCE
Arlington	accept	SWANG@american.edu

Atlanta         accept	liang@athena.cs.uga.edu

Buffalo         accept  V592XM8P@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu

Boston          accept  wl@cfaitamp.harvard.edu
                        notes: 2year waiver may not be needed from 08/09

Chicago       	accept	shi6@oddjob.uchicago.edu

Dallas      	accept	guo@bach.convex.com
			notes:  an interview date was assigned in mid October
				for a F-1

Detroit         accept

Hawaii          accept

Houston       	accept	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

Indianapolis    accept

Los Angeles     accept

Louisville      reject	D0JIAN01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
			notes:	Birth Certificate Need to be Certified by U.S.
				Embassy in China

Memphis         accept

Miami           accept

Pittsburgh    	accept	Bin_Luo@ius4.ius.cs.cmu.edu
			notes: 2year waiver may be needed before applying PR

Portland        accept

Salt Lake City  reject	SHIBAI@PHYSC1.BYU.EDU

San Antonio	accept	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

San Francisco   accept

St. Albans      accept	SGU@draco.rutgers.edu

=======================================================================
Jonathan J. Sheng
Theoretical Chemistry, NYU {\\{ (212)998-8439  shengj@acf2.nyu.edu }//}

From snow@lucerne.rice.edu  Sat Aug  7 01:49:15 1993
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From: Jun Wu <snow@lucerne.rice.edu>
Message-Id: <9308070649.AA10707@lucerne.rice.edu>
Subject: lobby suggestion from a netter
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 01:49:14 -0500 (CDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3617      
Status: RO


This is a lobby letter proposed by a netter. He will remain anonymous according
to his will. So please do not write to me or anyone for his email. Post your
thoughts to lads@lucerne.rice.edu. Thank you.



---Begin the included letter from the netter---



				************
				LOBBY INS HQ
				************


	As someone suggested earlier, it is much easier to lobby INS HQ than
getting "official' certificates from China through illegal channels. Here
is what you can do:

	1. save and print out this letter;
	2. sign it (modify as you like);
	3. mail it or fax it; and
	4. distribute as widely as you can.

	It will help you and your LADs! REMEMBER: applications accepted
don't mean anything until they are approved.

	
	A Netter
	

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	(NOTE: 3 Copies are needed)


TO:	Director, The Records Systems Division
	Policy Directives and Instructions Branch
	Immigration and Naturalization Service
	425 I street NW., Room 5307
	Washington     DC 20536

	Rita A. Boie
	Senior Immigration Examiner
	Administrations Branch
	Immigration and Naturalization Service
	425 I Street NW., Room 7223
	Washington     DC 20536


FROM:	XXXXXX  XXXXX
	----------------------
	----------------------
	----------------------


RE:	CSPA Later-Arriving Dependents Permanent Residence Applications



Dear INS HQ,

	I am reporting a concern regarding the permanent residence applications
of CSPA later-arriving dependents (LADs).  The applications are handled by
local INS offices.  As a result, practices at various local INS offices vary
substantially.  Several offices require original/certified birth certificates
and marriage certificates or certain certificates certified by overseas U.S.
agencies in China.  This practice has caused a lot of confusion and anxiety
among Chinese students and their LADs.  Because no birth certificates were
issued at the time when we were born.  It is also very difficult for us,
overseas Chinese students, to obtain notarized certificates from China.  A
couple of years ago, the Chinese government issued a new policy.  The policy
made it clear that no notarized birth certificates should be issued to 
overseas Chinese students.  The reason is to prevent Chinese students from
obtaining permanent residencies outside China and force more students to
return home.

	If the local INS offices continue to require the original/notarized
birth certificates, it will force many many Chinese students and their LADs
to commit massive crimes.  Because they will have to get these unavailable
documents through illegal channels, that is, to bribe the Chinese government
officials by paying big bucks $$$$$$ or buying valuable "gifts."  As you may
realize, these documents by no means are "official and original."  These
"black market" documents do not make much sense.

	Furthermore, the instructions on Form I-485 state that "submit a
copy of your birth certificate OR OTHER RECORD OF YOUR BIRTH."  Clearly,
other secondary documents of birth evidence are acceptable.

	Considering the above mentioned reasons, we kindly request INS HQ
to waive the requirement of the original/notarized birth certifcates, and
to accept secondary evidences, such as passports, PRC Citizen ID cards 
issued by local Chinese public security bureaus, marriage certificates, 
and degree certificates.  These real official documents are much better 
than the "black market" "official" documents.

	We greatly appreciate your consideration of our request.



						Sincerely,


						(Signature)


						XXX YYY ZZZ



---End the letter from the netter

From snow@lucerne.rice.edu  Sat Aug  7 01:53:11 1993
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From: Jun Wu <snow@lucerne.rice.edu>
Message-Id: <9308070653.AA10730@lucerne.rice.edu>
Subject: LA demonstration?
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
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Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 01:53:12 -0500 (CDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Status: RO

To netters at LA,
        Is it possible for netter(s) at LA to remotely monitor (or watch)
the demonstration sponsored by this Mr.(or Ms.) Yeh, and write a report
to post to lads@lucerne.rice.edu? It'd be good also for LADs to know
what's going on and better analyze the situation.
        Thanks in advance to netters at LA.

FYI: This demonstration is supposed to be held this Saturday at LA INS.

From my@math.luc.edu  Sat Aug  7 02:04:53 1993
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	id AA23517; Sat, 7 Aug 93 02:05:19 CDT
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 93 02:05:19 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308070705.AA23517@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: COUNCIL RELEASE: MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA
Status: RO


----- Begin Included Message -----

>From song@math.cornell.edu Sat Aug  7 01:43:33 1993
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 02:41:26 -0400
>From: song@math.cornell.edu (Li-Min Song - Math Grad)
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Subject: COUNCIL RELEASE: MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA
Content-Length: 9834

*****************************************************************


              MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA


*****************************************************************

          TO:       CHINESE NATIONALS NATIONWIDE

          DATE:     AUGUST 6, 1993

          FROM:     DR. HAICHING ZHAO


          Yesterday Laura Reiff, Elaine Budd, Eleanor Pelta and
myself met with State Department officials from the Visa Services
Section.  Present from the State Department were Michael Hancock,
Associate Director of Visa Services, Bureau of Consular Affairs;
Seaton Stapleton, Immigrant Visa Control and Reporting Division
Chief and Jim Hergen, Legal Counsel, East Asian and Pacific
Affairs.  
          
          After our meeting with the INS last week to solve some
problems regarding late arriving dependents in the U.S., this
meeting with the State Department primarily focus on issues
related to dependents who are still in China.  The officials
present at the meeting are in charge of the policy related to
consular processing in China and in third countries and thus have
an important part to play in implementing the CSPA.  They are
also responsible for maintaining immigrant visa preference number
availability.

          The topics of the meeting were primarily three folds:
1, Dependents in China; 2, Visa availability; 3, Mandatary
consular processing in third country for some dependents in the
U.S.  The following is a brief report:
 

1)        EMPLOYMENT BASED THIRD PREFERENCE FOR CHINA TO REMAIN
          CURRENT THROUGH THE END OF SEPTEMBER.

          First, we discussed the issue of late arriving
dependents filing their applications.  The most significant
development during the discussion was that we were informed that
visa number availability for employment based third preference
for China will remain current through the month of September. 
This means that late arriving dependents of CSPA principals will
be able to file their applications during the entire months of
August and September.  

          Next week the State Department will release visa number
availability for September and they indicated that given the data
they now have they are willing to leave visa number third
preference availability current for China for the month of
September.  As a result, late arriving dependents will have more
time to file their applications.  This is particularly good news
for those with dependents in China, because it may give more time
to prepare their applications. 

          We will continue to watch visa number availability and
keep you informed.  However, you should be prepared for the
window to close at the end of September. 

          We would once again like to point out that it will not
make any difference when you file because your application is
placed in the queue according to the priority date you get from
your principal NOT from the date you file.  There are also some
other factors which effect when you get a visa number.  The most
important thing is to file a complete application any time during
the months of August and September accurately according to the
rules.

2)        DISCUSSION ON INCLUDING DEPENDENTS UNDER THE WORLDWIDE
          QUOTA ("203(D) QUESTION").

          Although this issue will have to be resolved by INS,
the State Department is consulted by INS for their views.  In
fact, it was initially the State Department which made the
determination that dependents were subject to the China quota. 
As a result, we fully explained our position that late arriving
dependents should be under the worldwide quota and informed the
State Department of our discussions with INS on this issue.   The
State Department said that they would follow INS' final decision
on this issue. 

3)        MANDATORY CONSULAR PROCESSING IN CANADA AND MEXICO FOR
          DEPENDENTS.

          In conjunction with our discussion on including
dependents under the worldwide quota, we raised the issue of
consular processing for dependents that have fallen out of
status.  If dependents eventually can be covered under the
worldwide quota, there is still the possibility that some
dependents may not be deemed as have maintained legal status.  In
that case, it is important that the State Department be prepared
to issue the necessary directives which would mandate Canadian
and Mexican consulates to process immigrant visas for these
dependents. 

          The State Department said they would certainly look
into the issue.  In addition, they understand the special
problems of China consular processing for CSPA dependents.  They
indicated that if the situation comes to that point, they would
be cooperative in providing for consular processing in Canada and
Mexico. 

          However, we are continuing to press the INS to deem
CSPA dependents to have maintained lawful status.  We think it is
particularly unfair that those that entered the DED program
before should cause their dependents being now deemed not to have
maintained legal status. 

4)        NONIMMIGRANT VISAS FOR CSPA DEPENDENTS IN CHINA. 

          We told the State Department that given the current
interpretation of the CSPA, some Chinese families would continue
to face long separations because their dependents in China may
not be easily coming to the U.S. to visit.  We asked that CSPA
dependents in China that request nonimmigrant visas to visit
family in the U.S. be given favorable consideration and not be
flatly rejected due to the "immigrant intent".  We thanked them
for their directives of a similar nature when implementing the
Executive Order and asked that they consider doing this once
again. 

          They indicated that if we had problems in this regard
in the future, please let them know and they would be
cooperative. 

          If you are a CSPA principal and have any problems
securing nonimmigrant visas for dependents in China, please let
us know and we will pass this information on to the proper
individuals at the State Department. 

5)        CONSULAR ACCEPTANCE OF SECONDARY EVIDENCE OF BIRTH AND
          CHINESE POLICE CERTIFICATE WAIVER.

          In the CSPA regulations, INS allows for production of
secondary evidence of birth without proving that a birth
certificate is not available.  They recognized the difficulty of
getting primary documentation from Chinese authorities that
oppose the CSPA.

          We asked that dependents processed at consulates also
be allowed to use secondary evidence of birth for the same reason
as it was necessary for the principal.  The State Department said
they would consider this and let us know later. 

          In addition, when dependents process in China or in a
third country, they are required to provide a police certificate. 
Again, this may be difficult for the same reason it is difficult
to get birth evidence.  The State Department said they would
consider this point. 


          CRUCIAL INFORMATION NEEDED ON CSPA RELATED ISSUES
               
          In our effort to solve CSPA related problems, we have
pushed different government agencies to consent on a variety of
issues.  However, in our meetings with INS and the State
Department, many decisions would not be definitely made primarily
due to the fact that there is not enough reliable data.  

          When we push the 203(d) issue, namely to have all
dependents covered under the worldwide quota instead of having
them compete with later coming students under the China quota, we
need an accurate number; When we pushed on the issue of DED
dependents' legal status, we were also asked for an estimate of
how many people we were talking about; When we seek more benefits
for dependents who are still in China, we need information as
accurate as possible.  

          Recently we have learned of many problems regarding
dependent applications in different local INS offices.  Some of
the problems we were able to help and some we have to seek help
from the INS central office.  When we push INS to solve these
CSPA implementation related problems at the local level, we need
to know about the problems as thoroughly as possible.       

          Please complete the following information sheet and
return to us as soon as possible.

          CSPA IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEM SURVEY

Name      (Last)___________   (First)__________

Address   ________________________________

          ________________________________

          ________________________________


Telephone:________________________________(H)

          ________________________________(O)


E-Mail:   ________________________________


If there are dependents in your family, please fill in the
appropriate box.

I am a dependent ____;   I am a principal _____.  In my family,
there are (please indicate the number):

          _____  dependents who can file according to INS cable;

          _____  DED dependents (out of status before 7/1/93)
                    according to INS cable;

          _____  dependents as J-1 holder themselves;

          _____  dependents in China or other country (_____);

          _____  dependents in other situation, explain:

                 ___________________________________________;


          _____  dependents who are in China and may need         
                 nonimmigrant visa to come to U.S.;

          _____  principals subject to 90 day rule.


We have encountered the following problems related to CSPA
application (please use seperate sheet if needed):
















Please forward the above information sheet to E-mail address:

          SONG@MATH.CORNELL.EDU

or FAX it to:  (202) 835-1883

You can also send your letter to:

          National Council on Chinese Affairs
          P.O. Box 77418
          Washington, D.C. 20013-7418

Thank you for your cooperation.

/end






 


----- End Included Message -----


From my@math.luc.edu  Sat Aug  7 02:38:19 1993
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Date: Sat, 7 Aug 93 02:38:46 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308070738.AA23782@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: A comment on lobby letter from a netter
Status: RO



My comment on the lobby letter to INS HQ to try to ease Birth Certificate
Requirement:

I basically agree with the points in the letter. But the language used
seems to be too exaggerating. Since the majority of Chinese students here
(as far as I know) have Birth Certificate from China, it's hard to
convince INS that all those people are committing "massive crimes" (quote
from the letter), especially because Birth Certificate is the reqirement
in normal procedure which many Chinese have used in the past to get green
cards. It might be better to soften the tone. Besides, the actually more
irrational practice of some INS local offices: asking for documents 
certified by American consulates, is not addressed in the letter, although
it's briefly mentioned in the beginning.



From my@math.luc.edu  Sat Aug  7 12:03:33 1993
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Date: Sat, 7 Aug 93 12:03:59 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308071703.AA24664@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1.3
Status: RO


----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi Netters,

The following e-mail is from a friend of mine. Any thoughts and ideas
would be appreciated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: INS said DED not a lawful status


According to the local INS, DED is NOT a lawful status, and those
in DED now are considered to have failed to maintain lawful status.

My application for PR as spouse of a CSPA principal was returned
yesterday.  INS explained that my current status DED is not a
lawful status, though it is a legal status.

Before I graduated, I consulted a foreign student adviser in
the International Student Office of my university regarding
future status.  The options are: continuing school, practical
training and DED.  DED was highly recommended since one could
change from DED to F, J, H visa, or adjust status to permanent
resident.  In one word, DED was much better than practical training
and would not have any negative effect on one's future.

The local INS responded it is true that the DEDs can switch back to
F, J, H, which are lawful status. They will be considered in lawful
status after they switch.  However, there is no guarantee that they
will be considered to have continuously maintained lawful status.
Technically, DED is not a lawful status.

It seems that if DEDs are not able to adjust status under CSPA, then
many other channels of immigration will be closed to them, too.  For
example, they cannot follow to join their family.  Can they apply
for PR under employment category 3?

I came to the U.S. in 1989 as a student.  I would have been an
eligible CSPA principal if my cumulative stay in China had not
exceeded 90 days for family emergency.

Thank you.
****************************************************************************
Subject: What to do if an F-1 student's applic. is rejected
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
 
Hi,
	I am a F-1 graduate student in my second year. I expect to get 
master degree next may. Also I am a LAD. I was wandering what should I
do if my application is rejected. Will I still be able to stay in the 
United States as an F-1 student? I will appreciate for any answers.
****************************************************************************	
Subj:	J-1 LADs should speak loudly

Hi, Did you read the COUNCIL RELEASE:MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA
from Dr Zhao on Aug. 6? It seems to me the regulations on CSPA are very
flexible if we can give a strong push to the State Department from Dr.Zhao.
Now, almost everything has obtained a positive result, including out of
status issue, quota issue and so on. Even the issue of LADs in China is
being considered seriously. However, the problem of J-1 LADs has not been
arised and considered even though they are in normal status and in USA.
The only reason is our voice is not strong enough. Please send a letter
to Dr. Zhao. We still have some chance because the application date has been
extended to September. Come on J-1 LADs.
****************************************************************************	

> My wife came on F-2.  I fell into DED in early 1993 (so she was in DED
> accordingly).  After I filed CSPA application, she lost her status.
> A few days after 7/1/93, she managed to get her own H-1.  So although
> she currently is in lawful status, she didn't CONTINUOUSLY maintain her 
> lawful status.  Is she still eligible to apply for PR based on her relationship 
> with me?  If not, what's workaround for this?

> Thank you very much.  I'd appreciate it.

> J. Chen


Hi, J. Chen, surely, I think she is eligible for PR.  At the worest you can 
fill a I-824 for her, and then she will be interviewed outside U.S.  This 
can be slower than doing I-485 directly, but might still catch August+September
window.  

I have a similar situation.  I am a LAD. I got my work authorizatio and went 
into voluntary departure last year. Right now, I am about to get my H-1 
through my employer. This might be a chance to correct the situation of 
"not continuously maintain the legal status", if I reenter from a third 
country.  

Here I have a question.  Did your wife get her H-1 from a third country
or just inside U.S?  Your information will be appreciated.

--Y. Hu

****************************************************************************	

From shengj@acf2.nyu.edu  Sat Aug  7 15:31:33 1993
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From: shengj@acf2.nyu.edu (shengj)
Message-Id: <9308072030.AA16470@acf2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Local INS Status, Package #1.3
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
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Status: RO

Hi, netters,
The following is a list of local INS offices' status on LAD issue. For
those wish withhold their addresses please tell me. The default
is posting the addresses for netters' reference.  This list is updated every
day. Netters may still go their INS office even status is rejected and tell me
your experience there so that this list can be mostly updated. After the list,
there is a Q&A list regarding to local INS on LAD applications.

=======================================================================
Date 08/07, 4:30PM

              	STATUS	SOURCE
Arlington	accept	SWANG@american.edu

Atlanta         accept	liang@athena.cs.uga.edu

Buffalo         accept  V592XM8P@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu

Boston          accept  wl@cfaitamp.harvard.edu
note 1> 2year waiver may not be needed from 08/09

Chicago       	accept	shi6@oddjob.uchicago.edu
note 1> quotations from a anonymous posting as your reference:
------------------------START---------------------------
Chicago INS information:
  Chicago accepted the application today. They do not check the birth
 certificate and marrige license. You may need the form for your 2 year waive
 if you are J-?er. I happened to hear two officials discuss such matter.
     A: Hi, B. How to handle chinese J visa two year waive? Do they need file
        a form?
     B: No they do not need file the form. I think they automatically get the
        waive.
     A. Are you sure?
     B. No,I am not. You better ask C.
It was 3.00pm. It was going to close. No one chinese got trouble.
 Few things I want to mension are:
   1. They need your original I-94 form.
   2. Even you have the evidence to support your family, you still need file
  the Form I-134. The form I-134 is filed by YOU, not some esle. You can file
 there or take home and bring back when interview.
   3. You will get interview date which is exact two monthes later.
   4. They don not look whatever you file (b) of part 2 and  YES or Not of
   "apply with you" in the Form I-485.
------------------------ END ------------------------------



Dallas      	accept	guo@bach.convex.com
notes 1>  an interview date was assigned in mid October for a F-1

Detroit         accept

Hawaii          accept

Houston       	accept	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

Indianapolis    accept	xiawang@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
note 1> secondary evidence for BC(Birth Certificate) seems ok.

Jacksonvile     accept	ZHEN@pine.circa.ufl.edu
note 1> application can only be sent by mail.

Kansas City     accept	fengzou@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
note 1>  need official birth certificate from china(Public notary).

Los Angeles     accept

Louisville      reject	D0JIAN01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
note 1> Birth Certificate Need to be Certified by U.S. Embassy in China

Memphis         accept

Miami           accept	zhaoc@surf03.sci.fau.edu
note 1> INS reject applications of LAD married after 4/11/90

Missouri        accept	linhia@acc.wuacc.edu 
note 1> quote from linhia:
        Birth certificate need to be made and notrized in China.
        Marrige certificate notrized in U.S. is acceptable,
        but has to translated by other than that couples on the
        certificate.  The translater need sigh his name on there
        and with his address.


Pittsburgh    	accept	Bin_Luo@ius4.ius.cs.cmu.edu
note 1> 2year waiver may be needed before applying PR J visa holders

Philadelphia    accept	***@***.***.EDU

Portland        accept

Salt Lake City  reject	SHIBAI@PHYSC1.BYU.EDU

San Antonio	accept	liu@maestro.geo.utexas.edu

San Francisco   accept

St. Albans      accept	SGU@draco.rutgers.edu

================================================================

Q & A:
1.3-1
>zhaoc@surf03.sci.fau.edu  writes on Fri Aug  6 23:29:15 1993:
>I think the compiled list is somewhat misleading. When you put the
>"accept" there, you probably should also put the troubles people may have.
>Take the Miami office for example, there is only one post up to now (as
>far as I know) which only tells that the office refused to accept applications
>of LAD who got married after 4/11/90. Nobody has posted any news on the
>acceptance of other LADS' applications. It would be better, therefore, to
>put that in the list to let people know.
A: No notes following a local INS means there is no further information
   available about the INS, which includes special rules the local INS applies
   to implementation of LAD applications. Please provide us anything you knew
   about your INS which is not included in the list or is contradicting to
   existing notes. Therefore the infomation can be updated, added and corrected

1.3-2
>guohong@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu  write on Fri Aug  6 21:45:16 1993:
>    I am glad to see your list about local INS status. Do you know any
>information about New York INS? Accept or reject? Any limitation for married 
>date (I am married in 1991)? I saw the last information about New York INS 
>is "08/04, reject". 
A: No news about New York so far.

From LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu  Sat Aug  7 19:30:14 1993
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Date:         Sat, 07 Aug 93 20:25:36 EDT
From: Mi Mi <LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      Personal & Misc
To: LADs netters <lads@spike.rice.edu>
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Status: RO

Please refer your answers to the author, not me.
If you have anything to post, send it to lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Thanx.
Mi Mi
lads-net committee member

===================================================================
>From: luo <U61985%UICVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      if you don't have original I-94

I don't have original I-94 form. Today I went to Chicago INS. The officer, a la
dy, refused to accept my application at the beginning, even I gave her the copy
 of I-94, a letter from international student office of our university, and a l
etter from a INS center. She said I must hand in my I-94.
After talked to another officer, she decided to accept my application. She said
 "today is a good day for you", with smiling face, finally.

===================================================================

>From: jli@mines.utah.edu (Jianliang Li)
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu


	I am trying to compile a Frequently-Asked Questions for LAD
	(LAD-FAQ).  If you have good answers to any of the following
	questions, please SUMMARIZE and mail to:

		JLI@MINES.UTAH.EDU

	Remember: Application accepted doesn't mean approved. We may
		  still need all the documents.

	I need help from all LADs and their CSPA principals to complete
	this project.  Please contribute your Q or A to me.

	Thanks!


	---------------------------------------------------------------

Q1: 	Form I-485:

		(b) or (h)?

		Applying with you?   Yes or no?


Q2: 	J-2 LAD:

		2-year waiver


Q3: 	J-1 LAD

		2-year waiver


Q4: 	DED Legal Status

		What to do?


Q5:	Birth Certificate

		What to do?


Q6:	Marriage Certificate:

		What to do?


Q7:	Marriage Date:

		4/11/91, Priority Date or before CSPA Approval?


	(to be continued ...... by you)


MI MI'S comment: Very good idea. Jianliang Li, why not join our
lads-net committee, and let's work it out together?

===================================================================
>From: Robert Xiao <xiao@chaph.usc.edu>

To whom will be concerned:
Before I sign off from this group, I'd like to share my experience with
everybody, if you have any further questions pls don't E-mail me but post here,
if it would not be me, hopefully someone else could do the follow up
answering.
LA is paradise in some way, believe it or not, around 150 LAD
applications have been accepted each day starting Monday, working
permits were also granted at the same time if people applied.
No real questioning, I-485;Form9003;I-468(processing
sheet);I-765;G-325A;finger print;photos;birth cert;I-797(CSPA);
passport copy;marriage lincense;I-20 copy;bank statement;employment
letter;I-94 copy; I-693(med exam) was optional at this monment, a copy
is need at time of interviewing.
My wife is Taiwan citicen, we got married last Aug., this may answer
one question I saw earlier on the LADnet; of course I can't be sure
she would get approved, but no questioning on this issue by the
officer; officers were quiet and fast, I paid at the cashier where one
of the bottle necks was, $180 total; I took the approved I-765 to the
photographing counter where the lady worked ten minutes per hour, my
wife took a picture, punched a finger print, signed a name, five
minutes later, she got her working permit; overall six and half hours
in LA INS's lobby this morning, we got what we want, we were issued a
appointment sheet assigned the interview time in Feb.'94, the earliest
time I heard was Feb.8, the time set today were all Feb.14. We stood
outside the INS building for a while, imagining where Shannon could
possibly stand tomrrow. Good luck to everyone including Shannon.

P.S. Hsin: in case you're on this net too, call me, take care.

Robert
at LA
===================================================================

>From: <DXW115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: J-1 LADs should speak loudly
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu

Hi, Did you read the COUNCIL RELEASE:MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA
from Dr Zhao on Aug. 6? It seems to me the regulations on CSPA are very
flexible if we can give a strong push to the State Department from Dr.Zhao.
Now, almost everything has obtained a positive result, including out of
status issue, quota issue and so on. Even the issue of LADs in China is
being considered seriously. However, the problem of J-1 LADs has not been
arised and considered even though they are in normal status and in USA.
The only reason is our voice is not strong enough. Please send a letter
to Dr. Zhao. We still have some chance because the application date has been
extended to September. Come on J-1 LADs.


Why not try to lobby? Mi MI

From LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu  Sat Aug  7 20:34:35 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA08690); Sat, 7 Aug 93 20:34:39 CDT
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   with BSMTP id 7480; Sat, 07 Aug 93 20:35:04 CDT
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Date:         Sat, 07 Aug 93 21:32:18 EDT
From: Mi MI <LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      Complains 1
To: LADs netters <lads@spike.rice.edu>
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Status: RO


>From: Liequn Qiu <QIU%SNYBKSAC.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>

Urgent! My wife went to New york city INS in the afternoon of Aug.4.A black
lady(supervisor) read the text of cable from INS central office in my wife's
statement,then just gave her an appointment sheet dated Oct.4 and refused to
accept the application. If so, we will miss Aug.,my wife tried to talk other
officer in other office, they reply they only do that now. Then my wife back to
information desk, another lady said" you are illegal to apply" with very bad
attitude.my wife argued with her and asked to talk to supervisor. Afterwards,
the first lady showed up again and said "she can apply now" but refuse to talk
further.Some Chinese said if person did not know the detail,they even could't
get apointment.Obviously, NYC INS knew everything, the INS or part officers are
obstructing LAD's application on purpose. What can we do now? Can IFCSS make
some legal action?

From LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu  Sat Aug  7 22:37:15 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA09167); Sat, 7 Aug 93 22:37:19 CDT
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   with BSMTP id 7598; Sat, 07 Aug 93 22:37:44 CDT
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 (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with RFC822 id 9867; Sat, 7 Aug 1993 23:35:26 -0400
Date:         Sat, 07 Aug 93 23:31:19 EDT
From: Mi Mi <LHGCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject:      Please send your CSPA IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEM SURVEY now!
To: LADs netters <lads@spike.rice.edu>
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Status: RO

Hi netters!  Please file out the following survey as requested by Dr. Zhao
and sen them out to him ASAP. He needs your situations and numbers.
Help Dr. Zhao and help ourselves.



Mi Mi

========================================================================
          CSPA IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEM SURVEY

Name      (Last)___________   (First)__________

Address   ________________________________

          ________________________________

          ________________________________


Telephone:________________________________(H)

          ________________________________(O)


E-Mail:   ________________________________


If there are dependents in your family, please fill in the
appropriate box.

I am a dependent ____;   I am a principal _____.  In my family,
there are (please indicate the number):

          _____  dependents who can file according to INS cable;

          _____  DED dependents (out of status before 7/1/93)
                    according to INS cable;

          _____  dependents as J-1 holder themselves;

          _____  dependents in China or other country (_____);

          _____  dependents in other situation, explain:

                 ___________________________________________;


          _____  dependents who are in China and may need
                 nonimmigrant visa to come to U.S.;

          _____  principals subject to 90 day rule.


We have encountered the following problems related to CSPA
application (please use seperate sheet if needed):








Please forward the above information sheet to E-mail address:

          SONG@MATH.CORNELL.EDU

or FAX it to:  (202) 835-1883

You can also send your letter to:

          National Council on Chinese Affairs
          P.O. Box 77418
          Washington, D.C. 20013-7418

Thank you for your cooperation.

From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Sun Aug  8 11:15:21 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA24018); Sun, 8 Aug 93 11:15:27 CDT
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA24008); Sun, 8 Aug 93 11:15:21 CDT
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA04707; Sun, 8 Aug 93 12:14:00 EDT
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 12:05:29 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308081605.AA07478@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: Q & A on LAD
Status: RO

>From: jli@mines.utah.edu (Jianliang Li)
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu

        I am trying to compile a Frequently-Asked Questions for LAD
        (LAD-FAQ).  If you have good answers to any of the following
        questions, please SUMMARIZE and mail to:

                JLI@MINES.UTAH.EDU

        Remember: Application accepted doesn't mean approved. We may
                  still need all the documents.

        I need help from all LADs and their CSPA principals to complete
        this project.  Please contribute your Q or A to me.

        Thanks!

        ---------------------------------------------------------------

Q1:     Form I-485:

                (b) or (h)?

                Applying with you?   Yes or no?


Q2:     J-2 LAD:

                2-year waiver


Q3:     J-1 LAD

                2-year waiver


Q4:     DED Legal Status

                What to do?


Q5:     Birth Certificate

                What to do?


Q6:     Marriage Certificate:

                What to do?


Q7:     Marriage Date:

                4/11/91, Priority Date or before CSPA Approval?


        (to be continued ...... by you)


From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Sun Aug  8 11:14:54 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA24006); Sun, 8 Aug 93 11:14:59 CDT
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Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA04679; Sun, 8 Aug 93 12:13:27 EDT
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 12:04:51 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308081604.AA07475@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: Package#3 on Forms
Status: RO

=====================================================
== The following are packed information on         ==
== Forms and Certificate from  LAD-network         ==                 
== ADDRESS correspondences to the ORIGINAL SENDER  ==
== To sign on/off, mail to "pei@nit.pactel.com"    ==        
== To post,        mail to "lads@lucerne.rice.edu" ==      
=====================================================
begin  
===================================================================

>From fang@vlsia.uccs.edu Fri Aug  6 21:35:22 1993
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 20:33:49 MDT
>From: fang@vlsia.uccs.edu (Yi_Fang)
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Content-Length: 1466

Form I-824 is for normal cases in INA, it is very difficult to fill out
correctly. There are some quastions:

(1) Part 1 in Form: Information about the person that filed the original application or petition.

The person is the CSPA principal or LAD? B/c CSPA gives the principal a approvalof petition under 3nd employment category, the LAD should have no petition for
3nd employment category too. So the person could be LAD as well, is it right?

(2) Part 2 in Form: Application type (check one).

There are three: a I am applying for a duplicate approval notice. b. I am 
requesting that a new U.S. Consulate or Port of entry be notified of tprevious   
approval of a petition. Please notify the Consulate or Port at__________
c. I am requesting that a Consulate be notified that my status has been adjustedto PR, please notify the Consulate at:_________. Which one do we need to check?
a--seems obviously not. b---it seems very confused, what means a new Consulate?
c--it is confused too, unless LAD am applying for family-based category.

(3) Part 3 in Form: Processing information. Subsection: If petition is filed foranother person-give the following about the person you filed for:

Who is the anather person? the LAD or who?

Could somebody reply above quastions? many thanks in advance. The I-824 also
suggests that LAD application is not normal case and needs INS HQ's to give
out some directions. The LAD application can not be treated as normal case!

==============================================================================

>From:   IN%"HCYU@ucs.indiana.edu"  7-AUG-1993 13:42:54.45
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   should local INS require our passport ?

Hi, everyone, a LAD here went to the local INS office to file her application
this week and was asked to give her passport and I-94 (both original) which
she did. Although she was given a receipt by the INS officer, I am wondering 
if it is appropriate for INS to take our passport away. What happens if our
passport got lost. Since CSPA principals were reuired only to submit copy of 
their passport, why should their qualified dependants be asked to give the 
original ?  Does anyone have any idea ?  (Indianapolis area)


====================================================================

>From:   IN%"ling@ecn.purdue.edu"  7-AUG-1993 09:56:53.34
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subject: Marrige date has to be before 4/12/90 ??!!

I am a CSPA principal. My wife is a F-2 now, We got marry at 6/11/90. We went
to INS at INDIANOPOLIS this afternoon. The lady there said only if the marrige
date before 4/12/90 can apply "followed to join". She show me a doc. issued on
6/28/93 which wrote that the marrige has to be before 4/12/90. So, my wife can
NOT fill I-485. She give me the I-130 form and ask her to fill that form after
I get the CSPA approve letter.Then she has to wait two more year for for GC.

Since there is an example at Dallas INS that they accept application even the
marrige date is after 4/12/90, I wonder that is there has any words in cable 
wire #4 clearly define the marrige date limitation, or there are some other
INS documents which give the clear qualifications for the LADS application?

Any help is very much appreciated!

-ling
8/6/93

===================================================================================
End
 


From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Sun Aug  8 11:18:57 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA24034); Sun, 8 Aug 93 11:19:02 CDT
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Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 12:09:03 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308081609.AA07529@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: Zhao Haiching's Letter
Status: RO


>From song@math.cornell.edu Sat Aug  7 01:43:33 1993
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 02:41:26 -0400
>From: song@math.cornell.edu (Li-Min Song - Math Grad)
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Subject: COUNCIL RELEASE: MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA
Content-Length: 9834

*****************************************************************
              MEETING WITH STATE DEPARTMENT ON CSPA
*****************************************************************
          TO:       CHINESE NATIONALS NATIONWIDE

          DATE:     AUGUST 6, 1993

          FROM:     DR. HAICHING ZHAO

          Yesterday Laura Reiff, Elaine Budd, Eleanor Pelta and
myself met with State Department officials from the Visa Services
Section.  Present from the State Department were Michael Hancock,
Associate Director of Visa Services, Bureau of Consular Affairs;
Seaton Stapleton, Immigrant Visa Control and Reporting Division
Chief and Jim Hergen, Legal Counsel, East Asian and Pacific
Affairs.           
          After our meeting with the INS last week to solve some
problems regarding late arriving dependents in the U.S., this
meeting with the State Department primarily focus on issues
related to dependents who are still in China.  The officials
present at the meeting are in charge of the policy related to
consular processing in China and in third countries and thus have
an important part to play in implementing the CSPA.  They are
also responsible for maintaining immigrant visa preference number
availability.
          The topics of the meeting were primarily three folds:
1, Dependents in China; 2, Visa availability; 3, Mandatary
consular processing in third country for some dependents in the
U.S.  The following is a brief report:

1)        EMPLOYMENT BASED THIRD PREFERENCE FOR CHINA TO REMAIN
          CURRENT THROUGH THE END OF SEPTEMBER.


          First, we discussed the issue of late arriving
dependents filing their applications.  The most significant
development during the discussion was that we were informed that
visa number availability for employment based third preference
for China will remain current through the month of September. 
This means that late arriving dependents of CSPA principals will
be able to file their applications during the entire months of
August and September.  
          Next week the State Department will release visa number
availability for September and they indicated that given the data
they now have they are willing to leave visa number third
preference availability current for China for the month of
September.  As a result, late arriving dependents will have more
time to file their applications.  This is particularly good news
for those with dependents in China, because it may give more time
to prepare their applications. 
          We will continue to watch visa number availability and
keep you informed.  However, you should be prepared for the
window to close at the end of September. 
         We would once again like to point out that it will not
make any difference when you file because your application is
placed in the queue according to the priority date you get from
your principal NOT from the date you file.  There are also some
other factors which effect when you get a visa number.  The most
important thing is to file a complete application any time during
the months of August and September accurately according to the
rules.

2)        DISCUSSION ON INCLUDING DEPENDENTS UNDER THE WORLDWIDE
          QUOTA ("203(D) QUESTION").

          Although this issue will have to be resolved by INS,
the State Department is consulted by INS for their views.  In
fact, it was initially the State Department which made the
determination that dependents were subject to the China quota. 
As a result, we fully explained our position that late arriving
dependents should be under the worldwide quota and informed the
State Department of our discussions with INS on this issue.   The
State Department said that they would follow INS' final decision
on this issue. 


3)        MANDATORY CONSULAR PROCESSING IN CANADA AND MEXICO FOR
          DEPENDENTS.

          In conjunction with our discussion on including
dependents under the worldwide quota, we raised the issue of
consular processing for dependents that have fallen out of
status.  If dependents eventually can be covered under the
worldwide quota, there is still the possibility that some
dependents may not be deemed as have maintained legal status.  In
that case, it is important that the State Department be prepared
to issue the necessary directives which would mandate Canadian
and Mexican consulates to process immigrant visas for these
dependents. 

          The State Department said they would certainly look
into the issue.  In addition, they understand the special
problems of China consular processing for CSPA dependents.  They
indicated that if the situation comes to that point, they would
be cooperative in providing for consular processing in Canada and
Mexico. 

          However, we are continuing to press the INS to deem
CSPA dependents to have maintained lawful status.  We think it is
particularly unfair that those that entered the DED program
before should cause their dependents being now deemed not to have
maintained legal status. 
4)        NONIMMIGRANT VISAS FOR CSPA DEPENDENTS IN CHINA. 

          We told the State Department that given the current
interpretation of the CSPA, some Chinese families would continue
to face long separations because their dependents in China may
not be easily coming to the U.S. to visit.  We asked that CSPA
dependents in China that request nonimmigrant visas to visit
family in the U.S. be given favorable consideration and not be
flatly rejected due to the "immigrant intent".  We thanked them
for their directives of a similar nature when implementing the
Executive Order and asked that they consider doing this once
again. 

          They indicated that if we had problems in this regard
in the future, please let them know and they would be
cooperative. 

          If you are a CSPA principal and have any problems
securing nonimmigrant visas for dependents in China, please let
us know and we will pass this information on to the proper
individuals at the State Department. 

5)        CONSULAR ACCEPTANCE OF SECONDARY EVIDENCE OF BIRTH AND
          CHINESE POLICE CERTIFICATE WAIVER.

          In the CSPA regulations, INS allows for production of
secondary evidence of birth without proving that a birth
certificate is not available.  They recognized the difficulty of
getting primary documentation from Chinese authorities that
oppose the CSPA.

          We asked that dependents processed at consulates also
be allowed to use secondary evidence of birth for the same reason
as it was necessary for the principal.  The State Department said
they would consider this and let us know later. 

          In addition, when dependents process in China or in a
third country, they are required to provide a police certificate. 
Again, this may be difficult for the same reason it is difficult
to get birth evidence.  The State Department said they would
consider this point.

          CRUCIAL INFORMATION NEEDED ON CSPA RELATED ISSUES
               
          In our effort to solve CSPA related problems, we have
pushed different government agencies to consent on a variety of
issues.  However, in our meetings with INS and the State
Department, many decisions would not be definitely made primarily
due to the fact that there is not enough reliable data.  

          When we push the 203(d) issue, namely to have all
dependents covered under the worldwide quota instead of having
them compete with later coming students under the China quota, we
need an accurate number; When we pushed on the issue of DED
dependents' legal status, we were also asked for an estimate of
how many people we were talking about; When we seek more benefits
for dependents who are still in China, we need information as
accurate as possible.  

          Recently we have learned of many problems regarding
dependent applications in different local INS offices.  Some of
the problems we were able to help and some we have to seek help
from the INS central office.  When we push INS to solve these
CSPA implementation related problems at the local level, we need
to know about the problems as thoroughly as possible.       

          Please complete the following information sheet and
return to us as soon as possible.

          CSPA IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEM SURVEY

Name      (Last)___________   (First)__________

Address   ________________________________

          ________________________________

          ________________________________


Telephone:________________________________(H)

          ________________________________(O)


E-Mail:   ________________________________


If there are dependents in your family, please fill in the
appropriate box.

I am a dependent ____;   I am a principal _____.  In my family,
there are (please indicate the number):

          _____  dependents who can file according to INS cable;

          _____  DED dependents (out of status before 7/1/93)
                    according to INS cable;

          _____  dependents as J-1 holder themselves;

          _____  dependents in China or other country (_____);

          _____  dependents in other situation, explain:

                 ___________________________________________;


          _____  dependents who are in China and may need         
                 nonimmigrant visa to come to U.S.;

          _____  principals subject to 90 day rule.


We have encountered the following problems related to CSPA
application (please use seperate sheet if needed):
















Please forward the above information sheet to E-mail address:

          SONG@MATH.CORNELL.EDU

or FAX it to:  (202) 835-1883

You can also send your letter to:

          National Council on Chinese Affairs
          P.O. Box 77418
          Washington, D.C. 20013-7418

Thank you for your cooperation.

/end


From my@math.luc.edu  Sun Aug  8 13:56:03 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA24380); Sun, 8 Aug 93 13:56:11 CDT
Received: from dedekind.math.luc.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA24369); Sun, 8 Aug 93 13:56:03 CDT
Received: from euler.math.luc.edu by dedekind.math.luc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA25443; Sun, 8 Aug 93 13:56:30 CDT
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 13:56:30 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308081856.AA25443@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1.4
Status: RO

*********************************************************************
Subject: J-1 LAD waiver
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Content-Length: 1617

I just sent a message to Dr. Zhao.  May be it is incorrect and
incompleted.  Any concerned netter please correct me and send
a message to whoever can help us.

----------------
Dear Dr. Zhao and Dr. Song,

I have a concern with the LADs who are J-1 holders.

(1) Both CSPA and its regulation do not mention this issue clearly.  At
    least, it has not been excluded to be waived, like the 90 days issue.
    Instead, it should belong to the catagory that the Attorney General
    could waive based on the family union consideration.

(2) J-1 holders maintain (continously) lawful status.  The INS said
    (according to your News Releases)
    the J-1 holders may apply for waiver.  One of the condition for
    waiver is that the applicant has a citizen or PR spouse or child
    (It is mentioned in the I-612 form instaruction).  In the CSPA case,
    all the CSPA LADs are eligible for this condition. Therefore, it is
    reasonable to ask for the blanket waiver for all J-1 LADs.
    (I assume the CSPA principal applicant will not be rejected).
    It also will reduced the workload of INS.

(3) You can easily imagine that most LADs with J-1 visa were forced
    to get the J-1 visa instead of J-2 or F-2.  I don't want to mention
    the detail here.  As all LAD could apply for J-2 or F-2, they were
    unable to.......

In one word,  if you are able to lobby and push the INS or dept. of
justice or State dept. in this issue, it is highly appreciated.  On the
other hand, we only ask for a favor implementation instead of asking for
modifying the Act. Hopefully it should be easier.

A Chinese Student
***********************************************************************************
Subject: RE: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1.3
Content-Length: 1115

This is in reply to the question in your package #1.3 from someone who 
indicates that INS's position is that DEDs are not considered to have 
maintained lawful status although they are considered to have legal status.  
The person's application for PR as a derivative family member of CSPA has been
returned by the INS on the basis of the above interpretation of the DED 
status by the INS.  

This is quite a shock to us as we have submitted the same appication package as
a result of exceeding the 90 days for reasons beyond our control.  Since mine
is not returned yet by the INS, I can only ask the person who raised the
question to please give me her/his email address so that if mine is by any 
chance approved, I would get into touch with this individual so that the 
situation can be remedied.  If the same fate is awaiting us, we can then put
our heads together to work out a strategy in dealing with this very urgent 
situation.  It will be less than four months before DEDs lose their legal 
status, and no one seems to come to our rescue (or should we expect anyone?).
It is a scary situation indeed. 
***********************************
Dear fellow netter,
	I forwarded your mail to the person who raised the question. He/She may have
tried to reply you. I tried several time to reply you, but got error message: 
"Host unknown".                             --Miao YE
***********************************************************************************

From jli@mines.utah.edu  Sun Aug  8 17:25:14 1993
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	id AA28162; Sun, 8 Aug 93 16:23:48 -0600
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	id AA10661; Sun, 8 Aug 93 16:24:02 MDT
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 16:24:02 MDT
From: jli@mines.utah.edu (Jianliang Li)
Message-Id: <9308082224.AA10661@mines.utah.edu>
To: LADS@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Status: RO



			-------------------------
			LAD-Q&A UPDATE (08-08-93)
			------------------------- 


	This is an updated LAD-Q&A.  No accuracy is guaranted.  It is
	provided for your reference ONLY.  If you have questions or 
	answers to the following questions, please send to:


	     YHL%CMLIRIS@HARVARD.HARVARD.EDU 	(LI, Yonghong)
				or
	     JLI@MINES.UTAH.EDU 		(LI, Jianliang)


	Thanks!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

		  	*****************	
			LIST OF QUESTIONS
		  	*****************


Q1.*	Form I-485: (b) or (h)? Applying with you? Yes or no?

Q2.*	J-2 LAD: 2-year Waiver?

Q3.* 	J-1 LAD: 2-year Waiver?

Q4.*	DED Legal Status?

Q5.	Birth Certificate

Q6.	Marriage Certificate

Q7.*	Marriage Date: 4/11/91, Priority Date or before CSPA Approval?

Q8.	Voluntary Departure Status

Q9.	If CSPA Principal or LAD's application rejected, what to do?

Q10. 	What is the sufficient financial support? 
                                                                            
Q11.*	90-day Limit and LAD Derivative Status


*  Unauthorative answers/discussions are provided below.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------
Q1. 	Form I-485:
-------------------


	1. (b) or (h)?

	   Select both (b) and (h).  Add a note to (h): "CSPA Derivative.
	   My husband/wife filed on 7/1/93 (or your date) under CSPA."

	2. Applying with you?   Yes or no?

	   No.  But add: "He/She filed on 7/1/93 (or your date) under
	   CSPA."


-------------------------------
Q2. 	J-2 LAD: 2-year waiver?
------------------------------- 


	On Form I-485, Part III, Q12, answer "yes" but add "Once my husband/
	wife's permanent residence application as a CSPA Principal (J-1) is 
	approved, the 2-year foreign country residence requirement for me
	(J-2) will be waived simultaneously.

	After your LAD files her/his application, it is also recommended that
	you file Form I-612 for the 2-year waiver.  It will cost you additional
	$90.  It may worth it.  It is up to you.


-------------------------------
Q3. 	J-1 LAD: 2-year waiver?
-------------------------------


	I have contacted a lawyer in DC and a Chinese consul in NY. Here are
	are some messages I got. (1) J-1 LADs can apply PR only after obtaining 
	a waiver letter from USIA. Some local INS may accept the application, 
	but it will probably be rejected. The application of waiver can not be
	handed in at the same time as the application of PR. (2) To obtain the
	the 2-year waiver, you can (a). obtain a "No Objection letter" from 
	Chinese Embassy.  But the Chinese consul said a person can apply 
	a waiver only he/she wants to change from J-1 to F-1
	or to H-1 or J-2, F-2 ect. My wife is going to gradurate soon. No these
	categories is suitable for her, so that the consul refused to help her.
	(b). fill in a Form I-612. You can ensure a lawyer to do this or do it
	at your local INS by yourself. I am contacting a lawyer in DC. I'll tell
	you the news when I get it from the lawyer.
 
  	-----------------

   	I am not sure if you can apply PR right now, but I think the first
   	thing you should begin to do is to get a waiver for your J-1. One way
   	to get a waiver is by chinese embassy, you can ask chinese consulate
   	in your area on how to do it. They may need your application, the letter
   	from your working place in China, the copy of your IAP-66 form, your
   	employment letter here and $50 check, you also are required to fill a 
	special form giving by Chinese consulate.

	-------------------

      	I concern the issue of J-1 LAD. The INS in Menneapolis accepts the
      	application of LAD. But nobody knows what the decision they make will
     	be. Please let me know the information about this issue.

	-------------------

	I got the same problem as you do. I went to local INS Office at Salt
	Lake City  yesterday with my wife and handed in the application. The
	lady working there told me that they will accept any application no
	matter what the LAD's current status is. Now, What is your information?


-------------------------
Q4. 	DED Legal Status:
-------------------------


	According to the local INS, DED is NOT a lawful status, and those
	in DED now are considered to have failed to maintain lawful status.

	My application for PR as spouse of a CSPA principal was returned
	yesterday.  INS explained that my current status DED is not a
	lawful status, though it is a legal status.

	Before I graduated, I consulted a foreign student adviser in
	the International Student Office of my university regarding
	future status.  The options are: continuing school, practical
	training and DED.  DED was highly recommended since one could
	change from DED to F, J, H visa, or adjust status to permanent
	resident.  In one word, DED was much better than practical training
	and would not have any negative effect on one's future.

	The local INS responded it is true that the DEDs can switch back to
	F, J, H, which are lawful status. They will be considered in lawful
	status after they switch.  However, there is no guarantee that they
	will be considered to have continuously maintained lawful status.
	Technically, DED is not a lawful status.

	It seems that if DEDs are not able to adjust status under CSPA, then
	many other channels of immigration will be closed to them, too.  For
	example, they cannot follow to join their family.  Can they apply
	for PR under employment category 3?


--------------------------
Q5.	Birth Certificate:
--------------------------


	What to do?


-----------------------------
Q6.	Marriage Certificate:
-----------------------------


	What to do?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q7.	Marriage Date: 4/11/91, Priority Date or before CSPA Approval?
----------------------------------------------------------------------


	I think you can apply, as long as the marriage date is before the CSPA
	approval date. But you may have problems with the local INS, because
	they don't always understand the law the same way as the INS headquater.
	So my suggestion is to wait for one week before you file. If you are
	close to the local INS, go there in person. If they still reject the 
	application, hire a lawyer who knows the CSPA to talk with INS. 
	Remember one thing, all above have to be finished in Aug., so plan 
	ahead.
 

-----------------------------------
Q8.	Voluntary Departure Status:
-----------------------------------


	What to do?


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q9.	If CSPA Principal or LAD's application rejected, what to do?
--------------------------------------------------------------------


	What to do to keep lawful/legal status?


-------------------------------------------------
Q10. 	What is the sufficient financial support?
-------------------------------------------------

                                                                            
	(1) whether both of employee letter showing annual salary and bank
	    statement are necessary? 
	
	(2) What is minimal amount of bank balance is necessary for a 3
	    member family?


----------------------------------------------
Q11.	90-day limit and LAD Derivative Status
----------------------------------------------


	Some CSPA principals who have exceeded 90-day limit are denied to
	opportunity to apply even as derivative family member of CSPA principal 
	on grounds that DED status (which is what these LADs status) is not
	considered be lawful although it is legal according to the INS standards
	and interpretation of the INS regulations.

	This is causing grief and big problems for many others and for me, too.
	Wonder if you can call this question "legal status of CSPA 
	principlas who fall out of status for exceeding the 90-day limit and
	their inability to apply as derivative family member?"



	(to be continued ...... by you)


From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Mon Aug  9 09:10:25 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA18054); Mon, 9 Aug 93 09:10:31 CDT
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA18042); Mon, 9 Aug 93 09:10:25 CDT
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA17619; Mon, 9 Aug 93 10:08:58 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 10:00:28 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308091400.AA13294@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: Your help on LAD-Q&A
Cc: jli@mines.utah.edu
Status: RO

>From: 		LAD Network Committee
To:   		Network Members
Subject:	Frequent Asked Questions and Answers 
                on Late-Arriving Dependent (LAD-Q&A)

We are trying to compile a Frequently-Asked Questions and Answers 
for LADs, which is Called LAD-Q&A. Maybe we can upload to
CND.ORG. So everyone can FTP.
  
If your question is not here, or you has answers to any of the 
following questions, please SUMMARIZE and mail to:

                JLI@MINES.UTAH.EDU
		yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu

and after "Subject:",
write 		more Qs     if you add  questions

write		Ans to Q*   if you answer a question.

If you do not want your name shown in LAD-Q&A, please state so.

Thank you for co-operation!
------------------------------------------------------------------
LIST OF QUESTIONS

Q1.	Form I-485: (b) or (h)? Applying with you? Yes or no?

Q2.	J-2 LAD: 2-year Waiver?

Q3. 	J-1 LAD: 2-year Waiver?

Q4.	DED Legal Status?

Q5.	Birth Certificate

Q6.	Marriage Certificate

Q7.	Marriage Date: 4/11/91, Priority Date or before CSPA Approval?

Q8.	Voluntary Departure Status

Q9.	If CSPA Principal or LAD's application rejected, what to do?

Q10. 	What is the sufficient financial support? 
                                                                            
Q11.	90-day Limit and LAD Derivative Status

Q12.	How to file I-812?
---------------------------------------------------------------------


From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Mon Aug  9 11:16:12 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA18588); Mon, 9 Aug 93 11:16:18 CDT
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA18578); Mon, 9 Aug 93 11:16:12 CDT
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA19925; Mon, 9 Aug 93 12:14:40 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 12:06:09 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308091606.AA14264@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: Packge#3 on Forms
Status: RO

=====================================================
== The following are packed information on         ==
== Forms and Certificate from  LAD-network         ==                 
== ADDRESS correspondences to the ORIGINAL SENDER  ==
== To sign on/off, mail to "pei@nit.pactel.com"    ==        
== To post,        mail to "lads@lucerne.rice.edu" ==      
=====================================================
begin  
===================================================================
>From 72620.431@compuserve.com Sun Aug  8 22:45:59 1993
Date: 08 Aug 93 23:41:16 EDT
>From: Jeff Song <72620.431@compuserve.com>
To: <LADS@lucerne.rice.edu>
Subject: How to fill I-485
Content-Length: 260

    I have a question on the fields of CURRENT INS STATUS and EXPIRES 
ON in PART 1 of I-485. Since a F-2 or J-2 later-arriving dependent 
falled out of lawful status when his/her principal filling I-485, what
proper words should be put in the fields?

===================================================================================

>From:   IN%"CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu"  9-AUG-1993 11:02:03.95
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   Marriage Certificate, answer

Marriage Certificate etc.

1. Marriage Certificate

This is the format I used for my own application and was modified from a
posting of a netter in June.  For your reference only.
You must attach a copy of your original MC with this translation.

------
                       Marriage Certificate

                          (Translation)

Whereas the applicants XXXXX XXX (male), born on (Month) xx, 19xx, 
and XXXXX XXX (female), born on (Month) xx, 19xx, are found confirming 
to the Marriage Law of the People's Republic of China, this marriage 
certificate is hereby issued to them.


                     (Photograph of the married)



              Issued by:

              The People's Government of XXXX District,
              XXXX City, XXXX (Province), P.R. China
              on (month) xx, 19xx
----------

2. Certificate of Translation

This certificated of translation must be attached to any translated document 
to certify that the translation is accurate.  Note you can not translate your
own documents by default, so ask a friend sign it, do NOT sign it yourself.

-------------
     I, XXXXX XXX, hereby certify that I am competent
     to translate from the Chinese language into
     English, and that the attached is an accurate 
     translation of the original document.


                (Signature & date)

               Name of translator:  XXXXX XXX

               Address: xxxx Who-Know's-What St, Apt xx
                        Whatever-Town, One-of-100-State xxxxx

               Telephone: 123-456-7890
----------

3.  This part MUST be attached to ANY application to INS in which you submitted
a photocopy of the original document.  It should be placed at the beginning
of your documents, right after the cover letter (if any).  This is scanned form
a letter sent by INS (so there should be NO typing error).  Don't try to modify
it.

----------
        I certify that copies of documents submitted are exact 
        photocopies of unaltered original documents, and I understand 
        that I may be required to submit original documents to an 
        immigration or consular official at a later date.



        Signed ___________________________   Date: June 30, 1993



        Printed name_______________________  A-file # _____________

----------

=======================================================================
End
 


From snow@lucerne.rice.edu  Mon Aug  9 17:01:17 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA19368); Mon, 9 Aug 93 17:01:25 CDT
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From: Jun Wu <snow@lucerne.rice.edu>
Message-Id: <9308092201.AA16498@lucerne.rice.edu>
Subject: # of netters
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 17:01:16 -0500 (CDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 704       
Status: RO

We have an unbelievablely high number of netters now: 926.

This is about the same size as CCNL. :-)

This mail also serves as a bad address tester.

Jun
-- 
                                 ^-^    Owlnet
                                (O O)   School of Engineering Network
                                ( v )
       o o o o o o . . .    __=--m-m--=_T__ ____======_T__ ____========_T_____
     o      _____          ||             | |            | |               |
   .][__n_n_|DD[  ====____  |   Jun  Wu   | |  ECE Rice  | | Snow@Rice.EDU | |
  >(________|__|_[________]_|_____________|_|____________|_|_______________|_|
 __/oo OOOOO oo`  ooo  ooo  'o^o       o^o` 'o^o      o^o` 'o^o         o^o`

From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Mon Aug  9 18:11:58 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA19625); Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:12:03 CDT
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by spike.rice.edu (AA19615); Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:11:58 CDT
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA27947; Mon, 9 Aug 93 19:10:32 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 19:02:03 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308092302.AA17537@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: pack#4 on forms
Status: RO

=====================================================
== The following are packed information on         ==
== Forms and Certificate from  LAD-network         ==                 
== ADDRESS correspondences to the ORIGINAL SENDER  ==
== To sign on/off, mail to "pei@nit.pactel.com"    ==        
== To post,        mail to "lads@lucerne.rice.edu" ==      
=====================================================
begin  
===================================================================

>From DZENG@ucs.indiana.edu Mon Aug  9 11:25:08 1993
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 11:23:12 EST
>From: Daisy ZENG <DZENG@ucs.indiana.edu>
X-To: WINS%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu."
Subject: form I-130
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Content-Length: 78

Please
Would anyone please send a I-130 form filling example to ladnet?
        D.Z.

=======================================================================

>From ychen4@eos.ncsu.edu Mon Aug  9 13:27:03 1993
>From: ychen4@eos.ncsu.edu
To: lads@lucerne.rice.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 14:24:41 EDT
Content-Length: 159

Ans to Q*: marriage certificate
   If you got married in the United States. You can get a certified copy of
your marriage license from your local courthouse.

===========================================================================

>From:   IN%"FY@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu"  9-AUG-1993 14:36:23.35
To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   LAD in China


Hi:

Can anybody tell me the procedures to apply for the adjustment of status

for CSPA's dependent who is now in China ?

Thanks

=====================================================================================

>From:   IN%"R2YS%AKRONVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu"  "Jim"  9-AUG-1993 18:08:13.00To:     IN%"lads@lucerne.rice.edu"
CC:     
Subj:   Question

Hello.  Can somebody give information as to the latest INS decision regarding
the birth certificate of lads?  I guess many lads have this problem.
Thanks a lot.

=========================================================================
End
 


From yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu  Mon Aug  9 18:11:25 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA19613); Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:11:30 CDT
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	(for lads@spike.rice.edu) id AA27936; Mon, 9 Aug 93 19:09:58 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 19:01:27 -0400
From: yhl%cmliris@harvard.harvard.edu (Yonghong Li)
Message-Id: <9308092301.AA17534@cmliris>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: J-2 and Marriage date
Status: RO


		 Marriage date and J-2 waiver
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	I called an Immigration Lawyer in Boston (Adam Green or Russel Swapp at 
617-338-2413) and found these two answers.

(1)	No restriction on the marriage date. That is, as long as you are married
before the principal's application is approved, the spouse is eligible to "follow
to join".

(2)	There is no need for J-2 to get a waiver since J-1 principal get
a waiver automatically and this waiver can be automatically extended to J-2.

	Before you go to INS, prepare the following staff:

(1)	Make a copy of the Interim Rule, which can be FTP on CND.ORG 
(pub/InfoBase/CSPA). Be ready to show the INS officer as follows:
  " Family members unable to  qualify  for   CSPA   adjustment  of
status may be eligible for lawful permanent resident status under
other provisions of the Act.  Those family members whose  spousal
or  parental  relationship  was  established before the principal
CSPA  alien's application for adjustment of  status  is  approved
may  be  eligible  for derivative immigrant status as employment-
based preference immigrants accompanying or following to join the
CSPA   principal."

(2)	Keep the number of the Immigration Lawyer. Ask the officer to call.

	Good luck!	 


From my@math.luc.edu  Mon Aug  9 18:34:03 1993
Received: by spike.rice.edu (AA19674); Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:34:08 CDT
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	id AA26698; Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:34:27 CDT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:34:27 CDT
From: my@math.luc.edu (Miao Ye)
Message-Id: <9308092334.AA26698@dedekind.math.luc.edu>
To: lads@spike.rice.edu
X-Delivery-Note: This mail was relayed by LADnet. Authorized posting ONLY.
Subject: J-1,J-2,F-2,DED:    package #1.5
Status: RO

*************************************************************************
Subj:	PR Pending Status
 
I filed I-485 under CSPA on June 30, 93 by mail.  Since that day, I have
been the PR Pending status instead of an F-1 status.  I continue to
study for my Ph.D. and receive assistantship.  My question is:
Can I legally get the assitantship in the period of PR pending?
Or, I must get the Work Permission first then get the paycheck?
Since the assistantship can be maintained until next June, I don't
want to work outside campus.  The Work Permission will cost me $60.
I think I don't need to apply the Work Permission Card during this
Pending period.  If I try to find a job outside the campus, I need
to apply the Work Permission Card.  Am I right?

*************************************************************************