Subject: Re: Illegal speed traps (was: FIGHT YOUR TICKET)

From: [email-masked] (Behram Viraf Parekh)
Date: 25 Sep 1995 06:21:08 GMT

In message <[email-masked]> - NMA <[email-masked]> 
writes:
:>

:>[email-masked] (Behram Viraf Parekh) wrote:
:>>As of 1992 (the latest version of the CA Veh. Code that I happen to have
:>>handy) the definition of a "Speed Trap" in CA is:
:>>
:>>Section 40802:
:>>
:>>	A "speed trap" is either of the following:
:>>
:>>(a) A particular section of highway measured as to distance and with
:>>boundries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that
:>>the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes
:>>the vehicle to travel the known distance.
:>>

:>
:>Section 40802A means all tickets generated by airplanes are illegal.  

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!

As I tried to point out in my original posting, this is NOT necessarily
true. The law states that the evidence of speed measured by securing
the time it takes the VEHICLE to travel a known distance is inadmissable.
If the aircraft measures its OWN groundspeed, and PACES the car on the
road (eminently possible, I've flown aircraft that can easily do 40mph
or so airspeed with flaps down) the evidence IS admissable. From having
contested an aircraft ticket in the past, this is exactly what the
pilot of the aircraft claimed.

Do note, however, that the pilot, the person who observed
from the aircraft and paced you (this may just be the pilot, both
flying and pacing at the same time), AND the arresting officer should be 
present. If any one of them is not, you stand a very good chance of beating 
the ticket, as theprosecution cannot show how the speed was measured 
(pilot/observer),what that speed was (pilot/observer), identity of 
car(pilot/observer)and identity of car as relates to identity of driver 
(arresting officer).

:>This defense has been used successfully in the past, we encourage 
:>everyone who gets an airplane ticket to fight them.

I'm sure this defense has been used successfully, but it doesn't work
every time, and it is more than likely it was against and inexperienced
officer/pilot or a judge who did not understand what the pilot/officer
was trying to tell him.

Contest EVERY ticket, airplane or otherwise that you get for speeding.
By doing so, you make the system of enforcement as currently practiced
unfeasible. But don't expect to beat all aircraft tickets. 

:>
:>-- 
:>National Motorists Association      	Join the NMA!
:>[email-masked]                  	$29 a year.
:>http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/nma/    	Sign up online.
:>

-------------
Behram Parekh, [email-masked]
The above opinions are my own. They do not represent legal advice.
The reader of this document is hereby notified that that the reader
and author are not in an attorney-client relationship. Any and all
of the above statements may be false or misleading. No legal or
detrimental reliance should be placed on them. Any reliance placed
is completely at the reader's risk.

---

From: [email-masked] (Jeff R. Harmon)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 19:15:56 GMT

> Any ideas?

I'd go back an make SURE that there was no sign prior to your stop. 
Course that doesn't explain why you were 5 over the maximum "possible"
limit.  If you admitted you were over 90kph you're screwed otherwise it
might be worth getting an attorney (it'd be easy to beat if there's no
sign).  It's illegal in most states to create speed "traps."  Problem is
you have to prove that a trap is a trap.  Without the signs it would be
easy to make a case that this was indeed a trap.

You cannot plead ignorance of law.  Regulations are NOT law.  Was the
speed for that highway governed by state/federal law or by DOT regulation?

$.02,
JR

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Ted
Tea) wrote:

[I am sorry that I didn't really follow the threads... 
[but read that someone mentioned the Sheriff problem - 
[ie from a hwy going into a lesser speed section...
[w/ no posted change of speed limits... at turn offs...
[
[SO -
[my bloody problem is that I was caught this way...
[from the hwy, I took a turn to exit into one of the expressways...
[BUT NO SPEED SIGNS POSTED... (the hwy was 90kph, and after the turn off was 
[70kph)  I was clocked at 95kph.
[
[after the exit from hwy, I pass by underneath this viaduct... and the speed 
[limit was posted AFTER the viaduct.
[
[I realized later that the moron was sitting UNDER the viaduct at the 
[divider... ie b4 the speed sign...
[and he radioed the guys ahead to issue me the FAT ticket.
[
[it's FOUR LANES in each direction...
[
[I feel like giving them a piece of my mind... but I think they will counter by 
[saying that I should know the proper speed at that stretch - since I'm a 
[local...
[SO???? 
[
[Any ideas?
[----------------------------------------------------------------------
[                        [email-masked]
[----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Fax    (607)    354-9832       
[Mobile (6010)   777-8326       
[======================================================================
[                            TIT FOR TAT
[======================================================================

============================================================
 Jeff R. Harmon                         Adobe Prepress Group
 PressWise QA/TS Lead                   Adobe Systems, Inc.

I welcome private email but cannot guarantee a response.
============================================================

---

From: Bob Morrow <[email-masked]>
Date: 27 Sep 1995 01:22:18 GMT

The only reason they asked the question "do you know what stop 
means?" is to get you to admit guilt.  A seemingly innocent 
question similar tot hat is "doyou know how fast you were 
going?" and again,it's only purpose is to get you to admit 
guilt.  (the proper answer is simply "yes" to both, then shut 
up.  Yes you do know what stop means, or yes you did knowhow 
fast you were going. you don't have toa nswer the questions, 
but cops don't have to advise you of that right)

-- 
Bob Morrow N7PTM
USAF Tops In Blue 1988

"Hey Beavis! Not that switc.."#R5\4#$%^D&   NO CARRIER