Subject: Question for Speeders

From: Scott Nguyen <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 May 1995 00:54:54 GMT

Hey all....

         I was wondering how many of you who actually consider yourselves 
speeders have gotten tickets..  speeder=one who can't seem to keep 
his/her car within 15 miles of the speed limit.  I hear that speed 
enforcement is a joke in USA, i.e.-they ticket when they feel like it..  
I drive relatively fast (averaged 78 on a 6 hour trip from Atlanta to 
Raleigh) and have never gotten a ticket..  I was wondering if this was 
the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

---

From: [email-masked] (mcollett)
Date: 24 May 1995 04:07:51 GMT

>speeders have gotten tickets..  speeder=one who can't seem to keep 

Well...  I've gotten two speeding tickets, but both were nowhere near
an interstate.  They've been in some 'high risk' area in town where
everyone gets gotten eventually.  I've come real close on the interstate
though.  That was a long time ago when I drove a Volvo.  Now I drive 
a much better, smoother, faster 89 maxima.  But I have a Valentine
One and a CB so I guess I don't count there.  I know that I would've 
gotten a ticket about 3 or 4 times (at least 85mph in a 65) if I didn't 
have that setup.

---

From: [email-masked] (Iannis Alexiou)
Date: 24 May 1995 00:35:27 -0400

>the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

Well in Atlanta the story is this. if you are riding with the traffic
flow chances are you're not gonna get stopped. But if you fly-by everybody
else some policeman is going to notice you. When speeding BE SURE to 
check your mirror quite often, because they will pace you instead of using
a radar. In my years of speeding (>15mph over) I have averaged 1 ticket
per year, and none on the freeway. Not to say I havent come close, but
so far so good. If you do get caught expect to pay from $75 to $300.
Also if caught going >25mph over you are liable to go to jail.

Drive fast, but exert caution also. I usually enjoy accelerating more than
speeding. On the highway the radar-detector is essential since it will
give you at least 1 mile warning.

Oh, about your question. The tickets I have are all from small back-roads
where I didn;t have the detector on, and was going exactly 15 over.

without the detector my speeding butt would have ended up in jail 
pleanty of times.

john.

PS. at least i get to drive in europe every now and then, where the
road is the limit, and not the law.

-- 
IANNIS ALEXIOU / [email-masked] 
School of Mechanical Engineering  |'56 Land-Rover 2.0 |'74 Mini-cooper 1.3
Computational Multi-body Dynamics.|'90 Civic DX   1.5 |'94 Integra GSR 1.8

---

From: [email-masked] (Eric Barna)
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 10:25:50

In article <[email-masked]> Scott Nguyen <[email-masked]> writes:
>From: Scott Nguyen <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Question for Speeders
>Date: 24 May 1995 00:54:54 GMT

>the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

Depends where you're speeding. On my monthly trip down I-45 from Dallas to 
Houston and back (260 miles each way), about every third trip I'll see one or 
two State Police patrolling. Slow down around the major towns (about every 
40-50 miles) and you'll  be ok. The local police seem to be more prevelant. 
I've talk to some State Police that have said they stop ya' for 5 MPH over the 
limit, others that say they won't touch you until you're over 10MPH.

Taking the trip to I-35 to San Antonio (a little longer drive), I always see 
more State Police and local enforcement and they seem to vigorously enforce 
the speed limit.

Here in Dallas, Dallas police are just too busy with more important 
violations, like murder and stuff. But, the cities surrounding Dallas, enforce 
traffic more vigorously.

Eric

---

From: [email-masked] (Jim)
Date: 24 May 1995 12:33:23 -0400

>>speeders have gotten tickets..

Well, let's see:  I guess I average 10-20 over on the highway, and on rural
roads, it's anybody's guess.  I've doubled (even tripled 8^) posted speed 
limits.  Yet my record is clean.  I *did* get stopped by a nice Maryland 
Trooper for 75/55 two or three years ago, but he let me go.  8^)
-- 
[email-masked] |   NMA #116538, MARRC #1594   |  armed & friendly
ClarksBURG, MD        | http://www.basetech.com/jimb | '93 gsx600f katana
----------------------+------------------------------+-------------------
       Correct me if I'm right.  After all, this IS the internet.

---

From: [email-masked] (Cpt. Zoom)
Date: 24 May 1995 09:32:19 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>,

>enforcement is a joke in USA, i.e.-they ticket when they feel like it..  

You are not the only one who thinks that. Here is a Press Release
from the National Motorists Association:

	National Motorists Association
	6678 Pertzborn Road, Dane, Wisconsin 53529	608/849-6000

	For Immediate Release			Media Contact:

	June 1, 1995				James J. Baxter

						President

						608/849-6000

		Federal Study Finds Speed Limits Irrelevant

	Dane, WI -

		"The federal government spent over half a million dollars
	and five years on an exhaustive study of speed limits, and then
	buried it. The study was buried because it didn't come up with
	the answers that the Washington establishment wanted." James J.
	Baxter, President of the National Motorists Association, made
	that claim in a letter to members of Congress who are
	deliberating on repeal of the 55 mph National Maximum Speed
	Limit.

		Mr. Baxter claims that the study, the most comprehensive
	study done on speed limits in over 30 years, clearly proves that
	speed limits, as employed in the United States, have virtually no
	influence on driver behavior. "Raise the limit, lower the limit,
	or remove the signs altogether, and traffic speeds do not
	materially change. Furthermore, raising or lowering speed limits
	has no meaningful influence on traffic safety."

		The study, conducted under the supervision of the Federal
	Highway Administration, monitored and measured driver response to
	speed limit manipulations at 247 locations around the United
	States. Accident frequency was monitored at the same time.
	"These were not abstract computer simulations or esoteric 
	mathematical exercises; these were first-hand, on-the-ground,
	cause and effect comparisons."

		"We were not surprised by the finding that most speed limits
	are grossly underposted in relation to existing vehicle speeds
	and roadway design capabilities. Underposting by 10-15 mph is
	the rule rather than the exception," said the NMA's President.

		"This research effort was completed two years ago, submitted
	for rigorous peer review, and sent off to the Transportation
	Research Board to be forgotten and ignored. These were not the
	kinds of results that the safety establishment, insurance
	industry, or enforcement agencies wanted publicized. They fly in
	the face of 40 years of 'speed kills' propaganda and call serious
	question to traffic enforcement priorities. Millions of
	motorists, every year, suffer financial losses, totaling
	billions of dollars, as a result of unwarranted tickets and
	wasted time related to irrationally underposted speed limits.
	This study proves that point. Small wonder they tried to bury
	it."

				***END***

	The National Motorists Association (NMA) was established in 1982
	to represent the interests and rights of American motorists. It
	operates at the national level and through a system of state chapters.
	The NMA is solely supported through the contributions of individuals,
	families, and small businesses. For general information, call
	608/849-6000; for membership information, call 1-800-882-2785.

-- 
Lothar Dahlmeyer         			[email-masked]
Notorius Radium Astrology Obscuratory		http://info.aoc.nrao.edu/
My being paranoid doesn't prove they're not after me!

---

From: [email-masked] (Sunny Yum)
Date: 24 May 1995 17:07:53 GMT

>the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

Well, I'll have to agree with you that speed enforcement is a joke.
Its quite clear that speeding tickets aren't much of a deterrent as
it is a source of revenue for the community you receive the ticket
in.  Anyway... I'll get off of my soapbox and tell you that I drive
around 75mph on short highway trips and usually around 85mph for
long (>50 mile) highway trips.  I haven't gotten a ticket in over
four years, but I do keep an extremely cautious, watchful eye over
my rear-view.  Things to look out for when speeding (if you didn't
already know! ;): check highway on-ramps for lurking cops when
you go by, slow down when highways merge (just in case), check your
rear-view frequently (especially look out for shiny cars in the
distance... police cars are always shiny-clean!).  Also.. it wouldn't
help to be reasonable about how much and when you speed (ie: in
heavy traffic, bad idea).

---

From: [email-masked] (Tigress)
Date: 24 May 1995 00:13:04 -0400

I speed all the time, I get annoyed when I have to go slow. I have never
gotten a ticket, nor been stopped by a cop, and I am eighteen. I have heard
that cops tend to go after the more reckless speeders. This would make
sense to me, instead of going after everyone who speeds period, no matter
how well they drive.
Then again, I don't know, don't know any cops, and I don't know what
their views on who they stop are, this is just something I heard.

Tigress
 
Scott Nguyen ([email-masked]) wrote: : Hey all....

:          I was wondering how many of you who actually consider yourselves 
: speeders have gotten tickets..  speeder=one who can't seem to keep 
: his/her car within 15 miles of the speed limit.  I hear that speed 
: enforcement is a joke in USA, i.e.-they ticket when they feel like it..  
: I drive relatively fast (averaged 78 on a 6 hour trip from Atlanta to 
: Raleigh) and have never gotten a ticket..  I was wondering if this was 
: the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

-- 
      |\      _,,,---,,_		Tigress
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_ 		[email-masked]
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)

---

From: [email-masked] (Bryan Chow)
Date: 24 May 1995 19:17:21 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Iannis Alexiou <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>his/her car within 15 miles of the speed limit.
>
>When speeding BE SURE to check your mirror quite often, because they
>will pace you instead of using a radar.

Yes, that's the most important tip for speeders.  I speed a lot too
but have yet to get a ticket (though I came close twice).  I always
make sure I look at my mirror to see if there are any cops.  The good
thing about speeding is that after you pass by a bunch of people, you
only have to worry if there are any cops in front of you, not behind.
Also, there's a difference between speeding, and SPEEDING.  I only
really SPEED when there are almost no cars around.  Even if you are
safe, some people might freak out if they see another car going by way
too fast.

-- 
Bryan Chow                  California Institute of Technology [ SCP Lab ]
[email-masked] /           Home: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/
World Wide Web      -- Roxy Music: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/roxy/
(818) 395-3903        \    Autos: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/autos/

---

From: [email-masked] (Bob Foglesong)
Date: Wed, 24 May 95 15:11:42 GMT

>>the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

I pretty much always speed.  Since I started driving six years ago, I've gotten 
two tickets:  the first about two years ago, the second about two weeks ago.  
First, I drove right past a cop at night on I-95.  He was driving 65.  I think I 
blew past him going about 75-80.  He wrote me up for 65 because that's what he 
was going so he knew I was going that fast (he was pretty pissed off).  
Recently, a week after a bought my '91 Eclipse, I got clocked going 65 in a 50 
zone on a rural road.  The cop wrote me up for 55.  Both times, I basically 
attribute getting the ticket to not paying attention and looking for police.  
Usually I do, those times I didn't.  I also finaly bought a radar detector (of 
course it wouldn't have helped me the first time).

One thing I was wondering is, for those people who have gotten tickets, did your 
insurance go up?  So far, I have 6 points on my liscense (come July it will 
be back down to 2) and mine has not gone up.  Have I just been lucky that my 
insurance company has not noticed my tickets or is this normal?

Bob

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 24 May 1995 22:07:08 GMT

>the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

What really helps on the highway, besides a radar detector is having somebody in the 
front seat looking for cops. THat's what I did when  a friend and I traveled to 
S.Carolina from Delaware.  It helps to keep the driver more focused on driving and 
thus ready to slow down when you spot a potential trap.
Being careful when you come to overpasses etc,etc helps too.
We made the trip averaging 72mph (that's including long delays around the DC 
beltway)..No tickets, close calls, though..night is definatley the better time to 
cruise fast.

---

From: [email-masked] (Adam Fila)
Date: 24 May 1995 16:40:54 -0400

>Bob

Few months after I got my first car, about 3 years ago, I had
an accident.  I got a ticket for reckless driving or something like
that.  Since then I was stopped once for speeding (75 in 55) and
once for driving on a shoulder (4 points!!!)  I have now 10 points,
which means 2 more before license suspension :)

However, just about a month ago, I got a letter from my insurance company
that my premium goes up due to an accident I had 3 years ago !!!
The rate increased by $500/year ! ouch !  My rate was steadily 
decreasing in the last 3 years, this was the first increase ever.

So, don't be so sure about your luck :)

-adam

---

From: [email-masked] (Gwoho Liu)
Date: 25 May 1995 19:59:48 GMT

[email-masked] (Sunny Yum) writes--
: 
: Well, I'll have to agree with you that speed enforcement is a joke.
: Its quite clear that speeding tickets aren't much of a deterrent as
: it is a source of revenue for the community you receive the ticket
: in.  Anyway... I'll get off of my soapbox and tell you that I drive
: around 75mph on short highway trips and usually around 85mph for
: long (>50 mile) highway trips.  I haven't gotten a ticket in over
: four years, but I do keep an extremely cautious, watchful eye over
: my rear-view.  Things to look out for when speeding (if you didn't
: already know! ;): check highway on-ramps for lurking cops when
: you go by, slow down when highways merge (just in case), check your
: rear-view frequently (especially look out for shiny cars in the
: distance... police cars are always shiny-clean!).  Also.. it wouldn't
: help to be reasonable about how much and when you speed (ie: in
: heavy traffic, bad idea).

I always wonder about people like this.  If there were no other trafic on
the freeway and no speed limit, would they just floor the gas pedal and go
faster and faster until they fly off the freeway?

gwoho liu.

---

From: [email-masked] (Adam Felson)
Date: 25 May 1995 21:23:39 GMT

Gwoho Liu ([email-masked]) wrote:
: [email-masked] (Sunny Yum) writes--
: : 

: I always wonder about people like this.  If there were no other trafic on
: the freeway and no speed limit, would they just floor the gas pedal and go
: faster and faster until they fly off the freeway?

Don't be obtuse.  People don't normally speed for cheap thrills.  They base 
their  speed on what *they* consider to be a safe speed, based on road and 
traffic conditions and how far ahead they can see.

If I can see 90 seconds ahead, and the roads are dry and straight, why 
the hell should I limit myself to 55mph when 95 is perfectly safe?

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 08:34:17 PDT

>faster and faster until they fly off the freeway?

No, they would drive at the maximum speed at which they feel safe. Which is
going to be different depending on the driver and on the car they are
driving. Given a really nice road and no speed limit, I'd probably cruise
my '93 RX-7 at 100-130 mph, conditions permitting, but I sure wouldn't 
drive our '89 VW Fox that fast (even if it would go that fast).

Michael Johnson
Relay Technology, Inc.

---

From: [email-masked] (Susan E Clark)
Date: 26 May 1995 18:22:28 GMT

What would you do if someone's pet or child ran out in front of you at 
such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)

---

From: [email-masked] (Adam Felson)
Date: 26 May 1995 18:39:27 GMT

Susan E Clark ([email-masked]) wrote:
: What would you do if someone's pet or child ran out in front of you at 
: such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   

I would consider it evolution in action.  There's a reason superhighways 
have limited access and are fenced off.  DUH!!

I would only be going that fast ( if my car could :-) if I could see
far enough ahead to confirm that there are no obstacles.  again, DUH!!!

---

From: [email-masked] (Reid D Rivenburgh)
Date: 26 May 1995 19:49:07 GMT

>>>>> "Adam" == Adam Felson <[email-masked]> writes:

    Adam> Susan E Clark ([email-masked]) wrote: 
    Adam> What would you do if someone's pet or child ran out in
    Adam> front of you at : such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)

    Adam> I would consider it evolution in action.  There's a reason
    Adam> superhighways have limited access and are fenced off.  DUH!!

    Adam> I would only be going that fast ( if my car could :-) if I
    Adam> could see far enough ahead to confirm that there are no
    Adam> obstacles.  again, DUH!!!

Plus, do you think you'd be able to stop from 65 if a kid ran in front
of your car...?  65 is pretty fast, too!

Reid

---

From: [email-masked] (Justin M Collins)
Date: 26 May 1995 16:39:45 -0400

>such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   

Susan,
   Probably have to really clean off the grill of my car.  Actually on
a more serious note, the 100-130mph he is talking about is cruising
speed on a Interstate, not through residential neighborhoods.

-justin m. collins
<[email-masked]>

---

From: [email-masked] (John F Carr)
Date: 26 May 1995 21:12:49 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,

>such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   

I would find the nearest self-serve car wash to clean the blood off so
people didn't get suspicious.  Fortunately, at that speed nobody would
have had time to read my plates.

-- 
    John Carr ([email-masked])

---

From: [email-masked] (Adam Fila)
Date: 26 May 1995 17:16:56 -0400

>such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   

You would run over them, duh... just as you would at 55mph...

Isn't this one of the major reasons why pets and kids are not allowed
to walk on the highways ?

-adam

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 26 May 95 15:44:41 CST

> such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   
 	
	Any kid that is stupid enough to play in the middle of a highway
deserves to be hit. Its called jaywalking. Besides, there isn't much of a
difference between hitting a kid at 100 mph or 50 mph. Either way they are
dead. 
Fabien

---

From: [email-masked] (Tigress)
Date: 26 May 1995 18:56:21 -0400

Well, personally, I don't go that fast, not comfortable for me, I go at a
speed I am comfortable at which is around 75-80. Secondly, this is when I
am on the highway, and I think those speeds you are quoting are also done
on the highway, so where is the kid or pet you are talking about? I think
a better question is what if you were going 40 or above on a residential
area with lots of kids and pets. This would be much more realistic.

Tigress

---

From: Indian Outlaw <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 21:07:24 -0500

> area with lots of kids and pets. This would be much more realistic.

	'Cuse me, but in my time I have seen plenty of 'pets' on the 
road, dead and alive.  They may not be literal pets, but strays.  You 
also are forgetting deer.  A large animal can dart in front of you in a 
split second.  I have seen the damage one can do to a car's front end.  I 
also must point out there can be a result of loss of control.  As for 
residential areas, I would call 10 or 15 mph over the limit dangerous if 
children and pets are present, not the loose number of 40 mph over.  
	Granted, 75 - 80 on the highway is fine, but 110-120+ is 
ridiculous unless there is 110% visibility and no one else in sight, 
especially a trooper :).

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Joseph Lorello)
Date: 26 May 1995 11:54:09 GMT

Scott Nguyen ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hey all....

I know I have a lead foot.  I believe that all limits should be increased.
Cars are made today with better handling capabilities, so they can handle
higher speeds.  I am all for up-ing th limits.  But with that comes res-
ponsibility.  We all need to be more careful drivers, but I guess that 
won't happen.  I have had my share of close calls by idiots who don't 
know what a turn signal or mirror is.  Sometimes I wish I had a truck 
and could just ram every @#$@^ who almost kills someone before they 
eventually do.

I go at least 60 in a 55, over 30 in a 25, etc you get the picture.
I have gotten one ticket (Mass Pike driving my sister's 1995 Saturn doing
79 in a 65) I believe I was most likely snared while I was passing a truck
that was spraying my windshield with water mist (damp road).

Enough babbling.  You get the picture.  And if you see a 91 Tercel 
coming up fast, GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!     ;)  (Hey, if the car can handle
it without risk of losing control or hitting anyone, by all means do it)

Mike

---

From: [email-masked] (Justin M Collins)
Date: 26 May 1995 16:25:38 -0400

>the same with all of you out there who seem to have lead-foot...

I would definitely be classified a speeder.  I average around 80 mph-85mph
when using interstate between cities.  I have only had one speeding ticket
and it was entirely my fault.  In my old car (this was about 2 years ago).
I left campus and was heading downtown.  I was still right next to campus
and the right side of the road was campus property and
the left side was city.  Sitting about 1000 ft down the road was a patrol
car.  I thought it was campus security since they often sit in the same
exact spot during the afternoons and evenings.  This was also before
I had a radar detector (my old car started shimmering above 70-75 so
I really never had a need).  About 200 feet from him I noticed he was
RPD (rochester police department).  Lights went on, I pulled over.  Got
ticketed for doing 47 in a 30.  Of course the average speed on this
road was 45 so I just did what everyone else did, but I was breaking the
law and I got ticketed. 

I did go to court, but not so much to fight it, but just to experience 
going to court for a ticket.

As for getting tickets and not getting tickets.  A radar detector will
not stop you from getting tickets.  It will help immensily if you
use it correctly.  Though it is getting more difficult now that NY
State is starting to use laser.  I usually try to drive right lane
unless passing, I do not weave in and out of traffic and I do as much
as possible to not draw attention to myself.  Plus paying attention to
my surroundings help.  Even despite all of this I am sure I will
get ticketed eventually, but NY's limit goes to 65 Aug. 1st so that
will help since I will still drive the same speed.

-justin

---

From: [email-masked] (Bob Foglesong)
Date: Wed, 24 May 95 23:17:27 GMT

>
>No tickets, close calls, though..night is definatley the better time to 
>cruise fast.
>

Yes, but at night, I always worry because I can't see speed traps.

Bob

---

From: Ryan Mindemann <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 May 1995 01:44:35 GMT

Having someone help you look and being smart is easist way to 
look for cops.  And a radar detector helps :-).  I did 750 miles 
in 8.5 hours once using this method.  Most of it was deserted 4 
lane roads in Alabama and Miss.  (going home from FL to MEM, TN) 
 This includes slowing down to pass other cars and slowing down 
in those pesky little one stoplight towns.

Ryan

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 30 May 1995 11:59:12 GMT

>>ridiculous unless there is 110% visibility and no one else in sight,

I routinely read and see this sort of thing... Basically it says "the speed at which
I cease to feel comfortable driving should be the maximum speed for anyone to
travel, because anyone that would go faster is a maniac".

This, IMO, is a crock.

If you think that 75-80 is a max that any sane person would go, trade in
that Hyundai for a better car.  All of a sudden 75-80 would be as comfortable
(and IMO almost as safe] as sitting on your living room couch.

---

From: [email-masked] (Bob Goudreau)
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 17:15:35 GMT

What do you do now if someone's pet or child runs out in front of
you at 55-65 mph now?  Children and pets shouldn't be wandering around
on freeways anyway; it's extremely dangerous even with our current
low speed limits.  Remember, nobody is advocating 100 mph speeds on
city streets -- we're talking about superhighways.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
[email-masked]		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA

---

From: Dai F Toyama <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 19:19:31 -0700

On Fri, 26 May 1995 Michael Johnson wrote:

> > I always wonder about people like this.  If there were no other trafic
> > on the freeway and no speed limit, would they just floor the gas pedal 
> > and go faster and faster until they fly off the freeway?
> 
> No, they would drive at the maximum speed at which they feel safe. Which
> is going to be different depending on the driver and on the car they are

I remember there was an experiment related to this issue done in Japan.  
A major car magazine shut a certain part of the express way and let 
monitors drive there without speed limits.  (They were told beforehand 
that it was an experiment and that they didn't have to worry about 
getting caught.)

The part of the express way is designed for speeds up to 140-150 km/h 
under normal circumstances.  The speed limit is 100 km/h.  As it turned 
out, more than 90 % of the monitors didn't go beyond the average of 120 
km/h.  It goes to show that people tend to consider their driving skills 
and/or the car's capability when driving.

If I were to drive on Autobahn (no-speed-limit area) in my GS-R, I would 
probably stay within 180 km/h most of the time.  I know my car is rather 
a sprinter than a marathon runner.  I don't think I'm capable of handling 
180+ km/h for hours and hours either. :-(

Dai Toyama

'Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.' MATTHEW 5:4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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---

From: [email-masked] (Caleb Cohen)
Date: 30 May 1995 15:05:11 GMT

>180+ km/h for hours and hours either. :-(

I will have to slightly disagree.  I recently returned from a European
vacation and put on over 2,500 kilometers on the autobahn in a week and a
half.  Most of the driving was on unlimited roads and about 10% was in areas
with speed limits of 120 and even 100 in urban areas (for those of you who
don't do the math quickly:  160KPH=100MPH and 96KPH=60MPH).

My wonderful 4-cylinder, 5 speed Opal Cadet was just right for me.  I started
the trip only doing 140 or so because I wanted to get comfortable driving
in a foreign area (signs, directions, reading maps, new car, etc.).  When I
decided to step it up, driving 160 (100MPH) was very fun - especially because
I wasn't looking over towards my radar detector all the time.  I'd never
driven over 80MPH before this BTW.  I started to feel comfortable and tried
to speed up and could only do 180 without blowing a piston through the hood
of my car (got to 190KPH once for a VERY short period of time, but the car
was going to blow!).  I felt cruising at 180 KPH (112 MPH) was more
than enough...

Soon after I returned, some freaking kid decided to take away my oldsmobile
from me by using my trunk to save on his brake pads!  Ouch!  I replaced
my Oldmosbile Cutlas Cierra which shaked and shimmied at 75 MPH with a
brand new Ford Probe.  When I left the lot, without even knowing it, I was
driving 85 - not even close to driving fast in this car.  Since then, I've
been at 110 with ease a couple of times with tons of RPM's to spare.

i can tell you that without a doubt - if they lifted the speed limits in the
states, I'd be dead within a week!  i think some of the major interstates could
be retrofitted and have their limits raised to 100 MPH without a problem,
but I would be willing to bet that half the cars on the road couldn't go that
fast!  it would be a very dangerous transition to even a 75 limit because
there would be so many people who would drive slow in the Rh lanes and then change to
the fast lane!

That was my biggest fear over there - what to do if someone changes lanes
right into your path at 115 MPH!  My next trip in September will see me
renting a BMW, not an Opal, and with Gods grace I will retrun to this
newsgroup to tell you the results :)

Caleb

---

From: Dai F Toyama <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 22:06:10 -0700

> such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   

We normally don't assume that to happen on the freeway, where only motor 
vehicles are allowed.  To quote the original poster:

    Given a really nice road and no speed limit, I'd probably cruise my 
    '93 RX-7 at 100-130 mph, conditions permitting, but I sure wouldn't 
    drive our '89 VW Fox that fast (even if it would go that fast). 

See the strict conditions he put on himself?  Rational drivers wouldn't 
go at 100 MPH where a child or a pet can run out in front of you.  Also 
note that he indicates that it depends on the car you're driving.  I 
wouldn't push my friend's 91 Tercel up to 130 MPH if conditions permitted.

Picking on the high speed per se is meaningless.  There are a lot of 
variables that come into play in determining an appropriate speed under a 
certain circumstance.  For example, driving at 30 MPH in front of a 
kindergarten around 9:00 AM can be much more dangerous than cruising on 
I-5 at 100 MPH at 2:00 on Sunday morning.

Dai Toyama

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 11:29:36 PDT

>> such a high speed?  (100-130 mph)   

For some reason I didn't catch the original post, only Dai's followup, but
since Susan appears to be addressing me, I'll say something.

What on earth makes you think that I would drive that fast where children and
pets might be entering the road? As Dai pointed out, I put strict conditions
on where and when I would go that fast. We're talking about freeway driving
in good weather with good visibility on a multi-lane limited access highway
in good repair, and no traffic congestion. Under those conditions, I would
drive my (designed for) 170 mph car at 100-130 mph.

You needn't keep your children and pets locked in the house in fear that I
might go roaring down your residential street at 100 mph some quiet suburban 
evening. It won't happen.

Some people seem to think that high speed is dangerous under any and all
conditions. They are wrong. I suspect such people have bought the insurance
industry party line and don't bother to think for themselves on this issue.
If speed alone were automatically dangerous, everyone who drove in this
weekend's Indy 500 would be dead. Speed is only dangerous when combined with
conditions that make it so. These conditions can include weather, the state
of the road, other traffic, pedestrians, poor equipment, and a poor or impaired
driver. A reasonable driver takes these things into account, whether or not
that driver chooses to drive at high speed.

"It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end."

Michael Johnson
Relay Technology, Inc.

---

From: [email-masked] (Cynthia)
Date: 30 May 1995 13:42:14 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>They'd probably get run over.  Then again, they shouldn't be running on the
>highway...

	Yep: hey, what if yer driving 20 mph, and two feet in front of 
you a kid pop's up out of a manhole cover? Or what if yer driving 10 mph,
and akid falls 2 inches in front of you from an overhead tree..

	Well, if you just *cared* about our children, you'ld clearly see
the maximum speed limit in the US should be 2 miles per hour!!!!!

--
Please note: This is Keith Ryan posting. Please direct any e-mail
response to either "[email-masked]" or "[email-masked]"

Any typographical or grammatical errors are due to the evil news
machine mulching my post ;)
-- 
--
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Ron Madurski)
Date: 30 May 1995 04:16:32 GMT

I've seen several people post that they regularly drive 35 or more in
25mph zones.  I have seen several broken bodies of young children who
were were struck by people who THOUGHT they were driving at a safe
speed. It was a very safe speed for all of the drivers thay all
survived...., unfortunately for the children it was not.

PLEASE, do not speed in residential zones.  The life you save may be my
childs, maybe yours.

--
Ron Madurski      
[email-masked]

---

From: Indian Outlaw <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 23:49:30 -0500

> (and IMO almost as safe] as sitting on your living room couch.
	I now write:
	That is a crock, but your interpretation of what I wrote is 
wrong, at least for me.  I did not make my statement based on how *my*
car feels at the mentioned speeds.  I made that statement in light of the 
fact that strange things do happen.  In rural and even less than rural 
areas, deer, not just dogs, find themselves in the path of moving vehicles.
I know of accidents where the animal went thru the windshield and killed 
the driver.  I also kno of accounts where the imapct caused a loss of 
vehicle control.  So take your 1.0 g skidpad car out.  I don't care how 
it handles.  When something suddenly gets in front of you it's too late.
Convert mph to feet per second, and you might be a little more understanding.
I'm not telling you to slow down.  I could careless what you do.  I'm 
just defending my point.  Besides, in most places, 25 mph or more over 
the limit will kill your insurance if you get caught.  Here, you'll be 
arrested for reckless driving, but I can only guess what you'll say about 
that.

---

From: [email-masked] (cc)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 02:15:37 -0400

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>From: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: Question for Speeders
>Date: 30 May 1995 11:59:12 GMT

>(and IMO almost as safe] as sitting on your living room couch.

I agree totally...If you have a car that is not built for high speeds, then by 
all means, speeding is a very dangerous thing.  However, if your car is 
specifically designed to "get up and go", then it is safe to....go a little 
faster than the speed limit ;).  Now, before you jump up and start calling me 
insane and throwing out hypothetical questions ('What if a child or a gopher 
ran out in front of you?'), I am not talking city streets...Highways were 
designed to handle speeds much greater than the posted limits, and if you are 
a cautious enough driver and your car is capable, pushing the envelope every 
now and then can be a very exciting, and safe, thing.

cc

---

From: [email-masked] (Steph Greenberg)
Date: 5 Jun 1995 07:42:26 GMT

cc ([email-masked]) wrote:

: >>>      Granted, 75 - 80 on the highway is fine, but 110-120+ is 
: >>>ridiculous unless there is 110% visibility and no one else in sight,

: >I routinely read and see this sort of thing... Basically it says "the speed at which
: >I cease to feel comfortable driving should be the maximum speed for anyone to
: >travel, because anyone that would go faster is a maniac".

: >If you think that 75-80 is a max that any sane person would go, trade in
: >that Hyundai for a better car.  All of a sudden 75-80 would be as comfortable
: >(and IMO almost as safe] as sitting on your living room couch.

: I agree totally...If you have a car that is not built for high speeds, then by 
: all means, speeding is a very dangerous thing.  However, if your car is 
: specifically designed to "get up and go", then it is safe to....go a little 
: faster than the speed limit ;).  Now, before you jump up and start calling me 
: insane and throwing out hypothetical questions ('What if a child or a gopher 
: ran out in front of you?'), I am not talking city streets...Highways were 
: designed to handle speeds much greater than the posted limits, and if you are 
: a cautious enough driver and your car is capable, pushing the envelope every 
: now and then can be a very exciting, and safe, thing.

This is the crux. Except for passing you shouldn't go faster than 20mph 
over the speed of the cars around you. If there's no cars on either side 
of the road, in front or in back of you, clear visibility and no property 
to damage, there's no reason why you shouldn't go as fast as you want. 
Just don't do it with a passenger who isn't willing to die.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steph Greenberg                       
[email-masked]           "Every Friday is a prelude to Monday." 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: Bruce Augenstein <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Jun 1995 20:00:23 GMT

Just a minor but timely update on the topic of speed.

This morning on the Today show (U.S. - NBC) they had a spot on the
upcoming congressional bill(s) that may rescind the national speed
limit (55 mph, 65 mph on rural interstates), and give the power back
to the states to set their own limits. It was a surprisingly
balanced presentation, showing typical speeds on highways marked
for 55 (around 70 mph), along with the information that "most"
highway engineers recommend raising the limits, and some statistics
that showed we killed fewer people after the 55 went into affect in
the '70s, and more people died on rural interstates after the limits
were raised to 65.

They interviewed the head of the National Motorists Association, who
said that death *rates* (that is, deaths per mile travelled) have
been down steadily for the last 50 years, regardless of average speed
travelled, and people tend to travel at a speed they feel comfortable
with, regardless of the limit, unless there's a cop around.

They also interviewed Joan Claybrook, former head of NHTSA (National
Highway Traffic and Safety Agency), and currently with the Insurance
Institute for Highway Safety (or somesuch). I'm not entirely sure
what Ms. Claybrook said that was to the point, because she kept
saying things like "....kids racing on the highway..." and other
items that were dire warnings, but had little or no attachment to
the subject. It did seem clear, however, that she felt that states
weren't up to the task of setting their own limits, and that the
Feds obviously know best (with the implication that the Feds know
best as long as the speed limits don't climb :-) ).

Ms. Claybrook's performance was terrific in the sense that she
capitalized on potential fears with excellent sound bite material,
and thus probably "won" the mini debate. On the other hand, if you
know anything about it at all, or are just a thinking person, she
had something very close to zero in terms of content, or a
supportable position.

My guess is that we're going to get state-set limits, and, for
many rural states, that will be a boon.

Bruce

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Joseph Lorello)
Date: 8 Jun 1995 11:54:51 GMT

Bruce Augenstein ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Just a minor but timely update on the topic of speed.

: This morning on the Today show (U.S. - NBC) they had a spot on the
...
: balanced presentation, showing typical speeds on highways marked
: for 55 (around 70 mph), along with the information that "most"
: highway engineers recommend raising the limits, and some statistics
: that showed we killed fewer people after the 55 went into affect in
: the '70s, and more people died on rural interstates after the limits
: were raised to 65.

: They interviewed the head of the National Motorists Association, who
: said that death *rates* (that is, deaths per mile travelled) have
: been down steadily for the last 50 years, regardless of average speed
: travelled, and people tend to travel at a speed they feel comfortable
: with, regardless of the limit, unless there's a cop around.

This sounds about right.  I don't think the posted speed limit does
anything to rasie or lower the death rate.  I drive at a speed that
most others on the road are driving (unless I am alone on the road
like on the Mass Pike.  I slow downto no more than 5-10 mph over the 
limit only because of the ticket fear factor).

I believe that all limits should be upped since cars are made to go
faster and handle better than they did in the 70's (uhh its called
increasing technology and improvement/progress for those of you who 
disagree)

Doesn't this make sense???

Mike