Subject: Re: Why do you need to pass that person?

From: [email-masked] (David J Heisterberg)
Date: 27 Jul 1995 21:27:01 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Jim Fiocca <[email-masked]> wrote:
>turns green, you intend to try to pass that person in the right lane,
>cut over, hit your brakes, and make your right turn.

I probably wouldn't do it, but if someone's got enough power to zip
by me so that I don't have to slow down for them, they can go right
ahead and do it.  If they're good it may even be fun to watch.  But
if they blow the turn and I have to drive through their shattered
remains I will not be a happy motorist.

Um, maybe if it's a Yugo at the light I'd do it. 

> - ????? Why ????? -

Testosterone, I guess.

Dave Heisterberg

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From: [email-masked] (Geoff Miller)
Date: 27 Jul 1995 21:52:01 GMT

[email-masked] (Jim Fiocca) asks:

> 1) You're coming up to the last stop light prior to your needing to turn
> right.  The light turns red, there is one person in front of you who has
> been going a reasonable 5 mph over the limit.  You notice that the left
> lane is clear, so you cut over - knowing full well that when the light
 - ????? Why ????? -

Because I accelerate more briskly than most drivers do, and it's annoying
to be caught behind a sluggard even for a short distance.  Also, the
aforementioned sluggard might be planning to turn right as well, and
for whatever reason, I might not have another chance to pass him after
this, so I'll seize the first opportunity to get around him.

> 2) It's rush hour.  Everyone is going about the same reasonable speed of
> about 5 mph over the limit, so the excuse "they're driving too slow" is
> not applicable.  

Says who?  Five mph over the limit is "reasonable" by whose standards?
Actually, the question of the speed's reasonableness is immaterial.
If I want to go faster than the a particular group of cars is moving,
then that's all the justification I need to pass those cars.  

What you're overlooking is that different people are comfortable at
different speeds and rates of acceleration.  The posted limit
notwithstanding (and with the obvious exceptions of school zones and
residential neighborhoods, which you didn't posit), re's no inherently
"right" or "reasonable" speed for a given locale.  That's why it's so
important to keep right except to pass: that way you can drive 
comfortably at your chosen speed and allow other drivers to do the
same.  (That's the general "you," by the way.  I have no idea whether
you personally keep to the right or not.) 

> You're approaching a red light on a two-lane road that you know is
> about to merge into one lane shortly after the light (right lane 
> ends).  1, 2, or maybe 3 cars are already stopped in the left lane
> and the right lane is clear.  Why do you pull up in the right lane
> intending to pass and get in front of those 1, 2, 3, or more cars
> that got there before you? 

To get ahead of them and into the clear, of course.  If I pass those
obstacles^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcars, then I'll be free to drive faster
than they are until I come up behind the next slowpoke -- at which
point I'll deal with the situation as conditions permit.

> Do you realize that the Internet wouldn't work if the bits that
> make up these messages had the same disrespect for basic queuing
> theory?

The trouble with your analogy is that all electrons are alike; they're
not individuals preferring to travel at a variety of speeds.

Those are rather odd questions, Jim; I'd think that the explanations
would be self evident.  Why do you ask?  Are you often passed by faster
drivers, and do you have difficulty understanding why anyone would 
want to drive faster than your chosen speed?

Geoff

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller			+ + + + + + + +        	    Sun Microsystems
[email-masked]	+ + + + + + + +    Mountain View, California
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From: Cindy Lu <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Jul 1995 02:42:51 GMT

To Confused:

Most of us ARE as confused by the law and the real traffic.
You are fine. :-)

Just use your judgement.

Luckily, we are people driving cars. If we have to follow
rules as bits and bytes. We are not going anywhere. If
a car breaks down, everybody has to wait until it is fixed
and move on again.

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From: InfoNympho <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:53:39 -0400

> cut over, hit your brakes, and make your right turn.

    I may be in a hurry from the police, my wife/girlfriend, to hospital, 
etc, etc.  The person maybe going too slow for me.  Maybe I am one of 
those people who has to be first.  Maybe I had a bad day and I want to be 
an asshole and feel like I finally got over someone.  They can be many 
reasons.  

> not applicable.  You're approaching a red light on a two-lane road that
> you know is about to merge into one lane shortly after the light (right
> lane ends).  1, 2, or maybe 3 cars are already stopped in the left lane
> intending to pass and get in front of those 1, 2, 3, or more cars that
> got there before you?  Do you realize that the Internet wouldn't work if
> the bits that make up these messages had the same disrespect for basic
> queuing theory?
> 
> - confused
> 
   
  Same as above.  You need people like this in order to appreciate it 
when someone does not do things like this.  If everyone did the same 
thing all the time, then you would take it for granted.  Next time 
someone tries to do any of the above, jump out in front of them like a 
bat out of hell.  I do this and it makes my day :-).  Of course, you run 
the risk of the above mentioned as*hole steering out of control.  It's 
your choice!

***For it is I, which is he.  I think therefore I am.
   I am God 'cause I thought I was it.
                                        InfoNympho

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From: [email-masked] (Steve Sheldon)
Date: 28 Jul 95 03:43:15 GMT

>cut over, hit your brakes, and make your right turn.

 That's stupid.  Almost as annoying as the people who pull out in front of
you drive a block down the road and make a left turn. :(

>the bits that make up these messages had the same disrespect for basic

 I want to be first!

-- 
Steve Sheldon           [These are my own opinions]    '95 Dodge Neon
Iowa State University   ICSS Resource Facility by day  '85 Honda Spree
[email-masked]     ProMap by night                '91 Bridgestone MB5
   BEEF! -- Cause the west wasn't won on salad.

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From: [email-masked] (Walter H. Tondu)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:56:32 GMT

I HATE it when people just ..barely.. touch the gas when
the light turns green and slowwwwwwwwly accelerate.
Don't they know that there is a line of 20-30 cars during
rush hour that would like to get THROUGH the damn light
BEFORE it turns red again.  What is wrong with these
discourteous people?  That's why if there are cars
behind me I make an attempt to MOVE IT, whether I have
to go around or make an RLB (Right Lane Burn).

Notice nothing illegal either.

  _/          _/            _/    _/                          
 _/          _/    _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/_/    _/_/    _/  _/_/   
_/    _/    _/  _/    _/  _/    _/      _/_/_/_/  _/_/        
 _/  _/  _/    _/    _/  _/    _/      _/        _/           
  _/  _/        _/_/_/  _/      _/_/    _/_/_/  _/            

Walter Tondu
[email-masked]
'94 RX7 R2 blk

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From: [email-masked] (Brian Doud)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 15:55:35 GMT

> cut over, hit your brakes, and make your right turn.

To make a point about the speed, not the turn--in Los Angeles, I maintain that 
the city speed limits are about 10mph lower than they should be, so 5mph above 
posted is not a "reasonable" speed to me.
> the bits that make up these messages had the same disrespect for basic

For most people who like to drive a bit faster than the unwashed masses, an 
open lane is an invitation.  I prefer to have open road in front of me for when 
(not if) someone does something incredibly stupid to cause an accident--at 
least they've done it behind me.

----

+---------------------+----------------------+
|  Brian Doud         | [email-masked]  |
|  Senior QA Analyst  | [email-masked]       |
|  Quarterdeck Corp.  |                      |
|      -----------------------------         |
|  Unless specified otherwise, the opinions  |
|    expressed here are strictly my own,     |
|    not those of Quartedeck Corporation     |
+--------------------------------------------+

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From: [email-masked] (Jim Fiocca)
Date: 27 Jul 1995 19:35:15 GMT

- confused

---

From: [email-masked] (Richard Swent)
Date: 29 Jul 1995 16:29:40 -0700

Geoff Miller was bragging about his irresponsible driving
habits and I afraid that people might not understand him
clearly because his language was so self-serving and
obfuscatory. I have translated his comments into plain
english here.

Geoff says:
>to be caught behind a sluggard even for a short distance.

Translation: Unlike most drivers, I don't care a whit about wasting
gas or creating pollution. I'm more interested in power games. I am
so impatient that I can't tolerate anyone who doesn't drive the way
I do. 

>then that's all the justification I need to pass those cars.  

Translation: I am an arrogant jerk who feels he is above the law.

Geoff says:
>different speeds and rates of acceleration.

Translation: I am an arrogant jerk who feels he is better than
everyone else. I use this to justify ignoring the law. I also use
it to justify being rude and inconsiderate to my inferiors (i.e.
everyone).

>point I'll deal with the situation as conditions permit.

Translation: I am an impatient jerk who just cannot stand to drive
behind someone else even if there's no long-term gain by passing
them. I am so self-centered and intolerant (being a good Newt fan)
that I have no patience for anyone who isn't as crazy as I am. If
anyone slows me down for a second I call them selfish, inconsiderate
road hogs. Now THAT'S a good example of the pot calling the kettle 
black!

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From: [email-masked] (Robert C. Barth)
Date: 29 Jul 1995 15:50:07 -0400

On Thu, 27 Jul 1995 in article <Re: Why do you need to pass that person?>,
 
>the risk of the above mentioned as*hole steering out of control.  It's  
 
And if you do this to me, you can guarantee yourself a race until I 
get off the road we are sharing. :) 
 
-- 
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* 
Robert C. Barth                             | E-Mail: [email-masked] 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Programmer/Analyst - Dow Jones & Co., Inc. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 30 Jul 1995 06:13:13 GMT

> cut over, hit your brakes, and make your right turn.

Most times, I don't.  Sometimes, I'll do it if I can make the turn without
cutting off or slowing the other car, especially if it looks like one that will
do a slow crawl through the same right turn when I would run it comfortably
10 mph faster..

> intending to pass and get in front of those 1, 2, 3, or more cars that

I definitely don't..  In fact, there was a place near home where they added
an extra short right lane at the light so people could get around others 
waiting at the green to turn left..  Some would take unfair advantage of this
"passing" lane to get the jump on straight-through drivers..  I lived for the 
times when I was first at the light to the left of these bozos..  I'd jump out 
maintain a position just off their front fender, forcing them to stop when the
lane ended 75 feet after the light :-)

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From: [email-masked] (MANNIX IAIN RORY CAMPBELL)
Date: 30 Jul 1995 13:06:52 GMT

>> intending to pass and get in front of those 1, 2, 3, or more cars that

Why not?  If it does not slow you down, who cares?  I often wonder about 
people who try so hard to get ahead during rush hour traffic, but if it 
suits them, fine.  It does not bother me - and I even do it occasionally 
- I do not like being stuck behind slow drivers.  Simple.  Sure, maybe I 
cannot go "fast" but if the person in front of me has that "I am going 
faast enough"  attitude, I get disturbed, so I figure it is easier to 
simply take the open space, get in front, and go with clear roads ahead.  

Mannix