Subject: Whiners

From: [email-masked] (KENNY MORSE)
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 1995 21:33:37

You know....

I an happy  to continue the dialog with you guys, which,
although some of you disagree with my positions...which is
fine,  you continually seem to ignore the thrust of
my comments just so you can vent.

The majority of people who get pissed off at the cop are
pissed off that THEY GOT CAUGHT.....in other words,
you are angry at yourself.

One last time......I AGREE that the speed limits are archaic and
need to be revised.  I AGREE that going 55 will CAUSE an accident.
Why? Because NO ONE...NO ONE will do it, therefore, even the 
people who find 55 acceptable are forced into becoming lawbreakers
to do what is safe.  How fair is THAT?  So THAT is why I have 
proposed that the speed limit laws be raised to what currently is the
average flow of traffic....65-70, and enforced strictly.  WOuld I like to
see it raised to 75 once again.....personally YEP!  I would love to
be able to spend less time on the road and more with the people I love
and care about.  But it's not gonna happen, so lets be realistic.  65 is
an attainable law.....perhaps 70 in rural areas.  BUT....to prevent people
from doing what I have been asserting that people WILL do, and people
on this board have ben citing me NMA positions or government studies that
say people WON'T speed if the speed limit is raised.....make it onorous to
do it!

In California, we have a particular problem.  We have a HUGE % of people
who are driving without the benefit of being licensed or insured.  We have a
HUGER % of people who believe that they own the road..."Me First...SCREW
YOU!".  Maybe they are not you or I, but I see smatterings of them every week
in class, or talk to them on the air.  They're there, and they ruin it for all.  I am
grateful that the police are out there.....they are my friends, helping to protect
MY life from anyone elses stupidity, or attitudes.  Keep your bad attitude to
yourself.  

This whole discussion about ELITE'S is stupid, and the whining of people who
break the law and get caught.  I don't worry about it...why? I don't break the law!
Laws that I disagree with, I try to change?  At least I put my time and $$$$ (yes,
I have paid $$$ to be on cable in LA, to offer people a FREE service to answer
thaie questions, and help them fight tickets and other services) for years.  What
have any of YOU done except whine....."Elite....unfair....makes us crazy......"  Please!
The ONLY law I break, as I said, is CVC22349.  I go faster than 55 because if I do
55, I'll get killed or cause a hazard. COuld I get pulled over and given a ticket?
You bet.. Would I have a defense? Nope.  Every idiot who stands in the courts
of California tells a judge "I was going with the flow of traffic" which is COMPLETELY
and TOTALLY irrelevant to the issues of 22349.

So, if I got singled out, I would take the ticket, and TRY to make the argument in front
of a Judge that I wanted to go 55, but as the Judge knows, THAT would have been
a hazard.  PLead Not Guilty by reason that there was NO WILLFUL DESIRE TO
BREAK THE LAW.  Personal responsibility forces me to accept that I AM breaking the
law, but there ARE arguments for the people who KNOW how to present them.
Court is NOT for the uninformed.

The bottom line in many of the posts here in this group is....you want to speed
because you want to speed for your personal selfish reasons...NOT because
you are so worried about the safety issues...whether we SHOULD be able
to do it, or the laws should be changed.  And then when you get caught,
you're pissed off at the cop.  Look in the mirror boys...THERE'S the
culprit. You.

As a member of the State Task Force on DUI, I was part of the
team that helped get the ZERO tolerance for anyone under 21, caught
behind the wheel after drinking.     I would LOVE to hear what
some of you guys have done to make the roads safer in this state?
Elite? Me?  If you think so...that's MR. ELITE to you!

Right now I'm working on AB650 which would make it mandatory to
show proof of insurance to get a registration.  Doesn't look good
for the bill because the DMV is against it for many reasons....
all of which I'll get into in another post.

Oh yeah....the other day in an unexpected rainstorm here in LA, on 
the 210 Freeway....a big, wide, superhighway.....people were
booking past me at 60-70 IN THE RAIN!  Speeding because
they consider it safe and comfortable?  I think not!

Kenny Morse
"Mr. Traffic"

P.S.  For you who are empted to FLAME....give us ALL a break...give
yourself the finger insead.  Might do more good or have more effect.

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Geary)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 22:13:14 LOCAL

>have any of YOU done except whine....."Elite....unfair....makes us crazy......"  Please!

Kenny, I *was* going to try to keep it civil, but I really don't appreciate 
your insults.

My use of the word "elite" was not stupid, and it was not whining.  Look up 
the word in your dictionary.  Mine says "a powerful minority group".  That is 
exactly the situation with which we are faced.  The will of the people is 
obvious--we have voted with our feet.  However, elitists (you can look that 
word up, too) in our government have decided they know better than the people.

I am stating facts here, and I used a word that seems to have upset you.

Regarding my statement about the highway laws making people crazy, I explained 
that further in my other message.  I will mention one other thing about this.  
Surely, as Mr. Traffic, you are aware of the personality changes people go 
through when they get behind the wheel.  People who may be perfectly friendly 
in person may become the rudest drivers.

This is no accident.  Our highway laws insult people.  When you insult people 
continually, day after day, you do them psychological damage.

Do you disagree?

(There are other psychological factors at work here, and I would be happy to 
discuss them with you--but can we first agree to not insult each other?)

-Mike

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Geary)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 22:13:14 LOCAL

Do you disagree?

-Mike

---

From: [email-masked] (KENNY MORSE)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 12:52:49

>I am stating facts here, and I used a word that seems to have upset you.

Mike.....

I appreciate your post, but you will have to keep the chronology of
posts a little better.  I was NOT responding to your post, was I?
Your posts came AFTER I posted "WHINERS", therefore, your
unbrage was not appropriate.

As for your regard for "Elite" though, YOUR definiton does NOT
cover the usage as posted.  You describe it as a "minority"....
The government that has decided to set laws (speed limits for example)
to protect me from others is no minority....next to the population maybe,
but IN CONTEXT, the MAJORITY of State governments have
set these laws.  It is not small elite.  But, since I agree that the speed
limits SHOULD be raised, and your "elite" should still be there to enforce
them....THERE is the discussion.

>that further in my other message.  

My students and people I talk to on the air are HARDLY crazy.  They are
rational people who make an informed decision to break the law.  I am,
and I do when I go my 62mph and break CVC 22349, so as not to be a hazard
on the freeway.

.  
>continually, day after day, you do them psychological damage.

Mike....this is true EXCEPT that the main reasons people turn into rude people
behind the wheel (which is a subject I talk about in EVERY class I have taught for
the past 8 years....I ask them..."Why do YOU think people drive the way they drive?")
has LITTLE to do with drivers feeling insulted by laws....and more to do with
human values like   Control....frustration with congestion....poor time management....
making $$$ pressures....and way too many to name.  Insult by unfairly set
speed limit is WAY low on the list.  This is the canard that advocates for
our roads to be Autobahns fly, and it doesn't.

>So, I was NOT insulting YOU.  I was responding to a specific group of
whining posts.  Watch the dates on the top of posts before you leap to
conclusions.  

Respectfully thanking  you for the thoughful post.

Kenny Morse
"Mr. Traffic"
responding to>-Mike

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:59:08 LOCAL

>unbrage was not appropriate.

Hi Kenny,

One of the things about Usenet newsgroups that can be confusing for all of us 
is that posts may appear in different order at different sites.  Here at my 
site, your "Whiners" message did appear some time after mine, and so I assumed 
it was partly in response to my message--it did refer to some of the words I'd 
used.  I didn't recall seeing other messages that used the word "elite" in the 
same context I had, so it looked like you were referring to my message (among 
others).

So my apologies for assuming you were referring to me.

>them....THERE is the discussion.

I would still consider the state governments to be an elite.  In setting speed 
limits, they have generally not responded to the clear wishes of the majority 
of the population.  Instead, they have responded to small lobbying groups, 
primarily the insurance industry and the various police agencies.  These 
groups have a vested interest in maintaining speed limits below what people 
are willing to obey, because they make money from these speed limits.

>>Regarding my statement about the highway laws making people crazy, I
>>explained that further in my other message.  

>and I do when I go my 62mph and break CVC 22349, so as not to be a hazard

I'm speaking in relative terms.  Naturally, I don't think most drivers are 
"crazy"--but I do think people get crazier behind the wheel than they are in 
other situations.

>our roads to be Autobahns fly, and it doesn't.

I agree with you about those factors.  I am still convinced that highway laws 
are a significant factor as well.

Here is yet another factor to ponder.  Suppose you are walking down the 
sidewalk and you accidentally bump into somebody.  What happens?  You say 
"excuse me", or "oops, I'm sorry" and you both go on your way.  A simple 
apology does a world of good.

Now suppose you bumped into somebody and your means of communication were more 
limited.  The only response you have available is to make a loud, annoying 
noise and flash a bright red light at the other person.  No apology allowed.  
I strongly suspect there would be fistfights breaking out all over the place.

On the highway, it's very easy to inadvertantly do something that irritates 
someone else.  However, there is no communication device built into cars that 
says "I'm sorry--I didn't mean to cut you off (or whatever)."  All we have is 
that loud noise and red light.  There is no universally accepted way to 
communicate an apology.

I think the apology is one of the cornerstones of a civilized society.  It 
helps us tolerate each others' failings.  Our cars provide us ways to 
communicate negative messages, but they do not provide any way to say "I'm 
sorry" or "thank you".

This may sound silly at first, but after giving it much thought, I'm convinced 
that this failing in automotive communication is one of the things that makes 
driving more dangerous than it could be.  It certainly makes driving less 
pleasant than it could be.

-Mike