Subject: Re: Unmarked police cars a no-no in Ohio.

From: [email-masked] (Wotan)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 17:15:44 GMT

[email-masked] (steve sebelius x4063) wrote:

:In article <[email-masked]>, Wotan <[email-masked]> wrote:
:>NMA <[email-masked]> wrote:
:>
:>:I don't know what area this is in, but it is not statewide.  This won't
:>:put speed traps out of business, it will just force police to use marked
:>:cars.  Damn, all that money spent on unmarked Camaros, FIrebirds, etc.
:>:Now the departments will have to ask for more grant money to buy the
:>:necessary equipment in order to use them.
:>:
:>I thought they got these from impound lots?
:>
:>Why pay, when you can steal it?
:>
:
:
:Here in Nevada, the Nevada Highway Patrol recently began using unmarked cars
:(Chevy Caprice Classic, solid white or blue) for non-radar traffic enforcement.
:They have a flashing red light mounted in front of the rear view mirror, red
:and blue lights behind the front grille and two deck-mounted rear blue lights,
:but no lightbar and no markings. Driver is a uniformed officer. They've
:apparently been getting good results with them, in terms of tickets. Drivers
:really don't pay attention, despite the obvious signs (very few "regular
:people" drive that gas-guzzling model of car). I went on a ride-along in one,
:and one of the first people ticketed in broad daylight was a lady whose son,
:age near five or six, was _standing_ on the front seat at freeway speeds. Boy,
:was she surprised.

My car won't do Nevada Freeway speeds.  I had to rent to keep up with
the traffics pace.

--

Goverment is an association of men who
do violence to the rest of us.
	-- Leo Tolstoy

---

From: "NMA [Bob M]" <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Nov 1995 17:29:31 GMT

[email-masked] (Kelly Aleksiejuk) wrote:

>I live on the border of New York and Canada.  Canada is a very fast paced 
>country when it comes to traveling down the QEW.  Speeds ranging from a 
>60 to 80 are the norm.  There police do not have marked cars to catch the 
>speeders.  Actually, you do not even know that you have been caught until 
>you receive the ticket in the mail.  In Canada, there are special police 
>vans that roam the major thruway and take a picture of the license plate 
>of the speeder.  The ticket is sent through the mail to the law breaker 
>without having to pull the law breaker over.  
>

They bounced photo radar out of Ontario in June.  The OPP hated it, as 
did the general population.

>In Canada, they are not worrying about the cop behind the post taking 
>radar: it might be the person in front of, behind, or on the side in an 
>unmarked police car.  Who knows, the new wave of stopping speeding may be 
>coming here soon!
>
>Kelly Aleksiejuk  
>

Photo radar goes back to the 50's.  It's been tried here, but hasn't met 
political or common-sense success because it is so indiscriminate.  It 
catches the mayor speeding but avoids the drunks.  It doesn't let you 
know what you were doing is wrong on the spot; you find out a few 
days/weeks later after you've forgotten the incident.  (Most people 
feel that if they're going with the flow, they're at the speed limit.  
Unfortunately it's not true, but it should be.)  It's nothing more than a 
cash-harvesting machine, and the then-new Premier of Ontario said as much 
when he put photo radar out of business there.

-- 
National Motorists Association      	Join the NMA!
[email-masked]                  	$29 a year.
http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/nma/    	Sign up online.

---

From: "NMA [Bob M]" <[email-masked]>
Date: 2 Nov 1995 17:23:06 GMT

Lord Kittenslayer <[email-masked]> wrote:

>No. At least not until we have speed limits which actually represent the 
>actual maximum "safe" speeds (i.e. speeds higher than that are INHERENTLY 
>dangerous). I'm pretty sure Americans wouldn't put up with that kind of 
>covert wasting of resources.

Actually, Americans probably will put up with photo radar to some degree. 
Look at the 55 mph speed limit, we foolishly believed it was a good idea.
The NMA however, can't stand photo radar because it turns the judicial 
system on it's side (guilty until proven innocent), you can't cross- 
examine a camera, and when did a photo radar unit catch a drunk driver?  
We're still waiting for the IIHS to tell us that photo radar has stopped 
a drunk.  Someday their spinmeisters will figure out a way to say that.

You're right on one thing though.  Photo radar is nothing but a waste of 
resources.  The devices cost over $75k and because of that they're 
rented, which allows the city to skirt the inconvenient budget process 
where if they bought them outright, they'd certainly investigate the 
device to see if it would live up to it's claim of increased safety and 
see if it's worth the chunk of cash they're asking.  Note too that the 
rental company charges an exorbitant fee ($50,000 in one case) if the 
rental contract is cancelled.

Usually, a paid, uniformed officer must babysit the robot.  Why not just 
have that officer do the actual work instead of getting paid to read the 
newspaper?

---

From: "NMA [Bob M]" <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Nov 1995 17:38:48 GMT

Lord Kittenslayer <[email-masked]> wrote:

>I thought the 55 was a result of politics, rather than the true will of 
>the American people. I never believed it was a good idea, and don't know 
>anyone who has. Of course, a lot of the people I talk to weren't even 
>alive in 1973, much less of voting age. It's really a leftover burden 
>from a past generation - I'm glad to see it getting killed.
>
>
>lk
>

55 was the result of politics, (Nixon originally wanted 50) but it was 
only intended to be a temporary speed limit, temporary until the gas 
crisis passed.  It became permanent in '74, one year after it was 
enacted.  Of course, in '75 or so the gas crisis vanished.  People's 
respect for that law has been on a downward trend ever since.  

We'll do something if we see a need for it, but when that need is no 
longer there, we go back to the way we were.  Take a look at the home 
front during WW2.  It was -advised- that you travel 35 mph to save 
rubber, gas, oil, etc., all used in the war effort.  Save your aluminum, 
your steel, your whatever.  When September 3rd, 1945 rolled around, I bet 
a lot of people started throwing it all out.
-- 
National Motorists Association      	Join the NMA!
[email-masked]                  	$29 a year.
http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/nma/    	Sign up online.