Subject: Sliding on ice

From: [email-masked] (Eric Lorenzo)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 13:50:44 -0700

I'm very conservative driving when it's snowing and especially 
when the roads are icy, like it was last night out here.  I drive a 3dr
'90 Integra that has ABS and all season tires.  Coming up to an intersection
at a speed that was barely registering on my speedometer, I started to
brake, the ABS kicked in, but I kept sliding forward.  It's such a
helpless feeling, but at least most people out here are smart enough to
make sure cross traffic is stopped before going with their green light.
        I know ABS doesn't do squat on ice, but I'm wondering, short of
getting studded tires, if there are any thing to do to help stop the car
from sliding.  Since the ABS is pumping anyway, I wouldn't think releasing
the brakes and applying it would make a difference.
        The winters out here don't merit studded tires in my opinion 
especially since i never drive up into the mountains.  The snow and ice will
probably be gone in a week, that's how it usually goes.

Eric
-- 
Eric Lorenzo
[email-masked]
<http://rintintin.colorado.edu:10000/>

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From: [email-masked] (Dick Yuknavech)
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 14:22:01 GMT

[email-masked] (Eric Lorenzo) wrote:
        ...edited to satisfy my ISP....
>Coming up to an intersection

Anecdote: in northern Illinois a couple of decades ago, a 4-way stop had
the work-bound traffic backed up for quite a distance in one of the four
directions (mine, unfortunately). What had happened was that earlier
traffic apparently polished the ice by doing some wheel-spinning as they
started up. By this time, it was really gruesome. As I got up to the bad
spot, just for the heck of it I stepped out to see just how bad it was.
Well, gang, I couldn't even STAND on the crud. As I grabbed the car roof
I actually pushed the car, a full-size Ford sedan, an inch or so
sideways !

The moral of the story, I guess, is that you'll run into conditions
where ABS, traction control, or anything else you've got (seriously - I
don't think I could have stopped quickly on skis on that stuff) is going
to stop you in any decent time. So you be careful and hope that
everybody around you is also careful, and pray that all your collisions
will be low-speed and that you always get a good bumper match.

BTW: is it true that on good, hard ice, studded tires don't help much
either?

Rule #1: if you can't avoid the crash, pick the softest, cheapest thing
around and hit it as gently as possible. - Anonymous (Stirling Moss?)

--
Dick Yuknavech                               [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (michael w. geitner)
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 03:21:14 GMT

>I actually pushed the car, a full-size Ford sedan, an inch or so
(snip)

Don't I know how that is.  On an overpass interchange in Milwaukee an
earlier light rain had turned to ice.  I saw the brake lights.   I
slowed to 5 mph.  Then I hit the ice.   Everyone was doing this slow
motion automobile ballet gently bumping into one another.  I was
driving a Dodge Ramcharger 4wd and since the brakes did nothing I
slapped it into 4wd then eased it into reverse.  Trying the
accelerator I found that my plan of evasion was for naught.  So, I sat
back and became a spectator as my truck careened at 2 mph into another
car.  Alas, there was no damage inflicted by the out of control
behemoth, but when I got out of it, I slipped to alight upon my ass in
such a fashion to cause a very sore tailbone.

Studded tires would have made the difference, but we can't use them in
Wisconsin.

Mike

DLFA - here to help
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (michael w. geitner)
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 03:21:14 GMT

(snip)

Mike

DLFA - here to help
[email-masked]

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From: "Antonio S. Esporma" <tony>
Date: 6 Nov 1995 23:39:23 GMT

>Studded tires would have made the difference, but we can't use them in
He, he!

I was stuck going up the Shiskayou pass on THE very nasty storm of '82.
Chains were required just south of Medford OR. on the I-5.  ( I was
driving to sunny CA :-(...

Almost on top of the pass, a big rig had jacknifed, so all traffic went
up the pass at a snail's pace in a single file.  (I learned to really
drive a stick shift that day.)

Some where near the top, the line wasn't moving, and nature was calling me
rather urgently, what will all that clutch-in clutch-out action.  So, since 
I could see a long ways up the hill, I decided to heed nature and stepped
out of the car.

I was wearing good boots and all, with Vibram soles and all.  Yet, one step
and I was on my ass.....and sliding away from the car.  Jeez, I wonder
what the coefficient of traction of Levi's 501s is?

Needless to say, I got back on the car (I sort of crawled back since the
road was all ice and gravel) and held it 'till I hit the sunny state.
My first contribution of the year to our august state ;-P

tony
Next day I blew one of the chains at 25mph... it darn near hit the 
gas tank on my '70 Vega GT.

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From: [email-masked] (Trevor Battle -- WinTrumpet)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:54:44 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Eric Lorenzo) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Eric Lorenzo)
>Subject: Sliding on ice
>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 13:50:44 -0700

>Eric

	Eric ABS is good because it gives you a controlled skid instead of an 
uncontrolled skid.   With ABS you can slam on the brakes on ICE and not spin a 
180 degree turn, because your tires are prevented from locking.

	During the winter of 93-94, ABS saved me from a likely crash.  It had'nt 
snowed for about a week, but at the intersection  there were huge snowbanks 
which had slightly melted the day before and refroze on the street the next 
morning :(   I was traveling less than 2 mph and my car started to slide 
toward the intersection; but thanks to ABS I was able to stop on the stop line 
with no disaster.  Later that morning some kid in a Jeep Wrangler slid through 
the same intersection and hit a school bus.  Fortunately there were no serious 
injuries.  

	I hear that there's a new tire out called "Blizzack", which is supposed to 
perform greatly on "wet ice" and snow.  Look in back of any of the popular car 
mags for info..

Trev