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Shri :
   
  dear all
   
  pranaams.
   
  I am forwarding a mail from "Shrimathi Jayasree".
   
  Adiyaen thought that i can grab a percentage of knowledge by reading 
  prabanadham.
   
  Shrimathi jayasree has shown me that there is no end to learning.
   
  Please see how she defines "Kesavan" Naamam.
   
   "Kedum Idar-aayavellam Kesava Yenna Naalum - Ref : 10.7.1"
   
  Much of it is ,, the knowledge ..., mysore based Shrimathi Jayasree has 
  acquired  is so ecstatic that there is no word to describe her ...  . you 
must read and  try to understand the  term "Water" 
   
  Thaayae , vanthuattean.  I will hopefully try to match your knowledge !!!
   
   I was like  (in the past) 
   1.  "Yaane Yennai ariya kilaathey ...  or say  Thiruvaimozhi , 2 nd ten
   2.   Paluthey pala pagalum poyina ....  Iyarpa 
   3.  Patraa manisarai patri ap-patru   vidaa-thava-rey ... Ramanusa Nootr...
   4.  " Thiru polintha Aakathaan Paatham Arinthum  Ariyaatha bogathaal illai 
          porul"   -  Iyarpa 
   
   hereafter ...Jetspeed ...................., Reading the books.
   
  Adiyaen 
   
  -   Maaran's Dog.
   
   
  ************* ************************** ************* ************* 
*************
   
  SrI:

Respected Swamin,

Pranams to you.
May all your understanding and that of mine, may all your good-will
and good words are offered at the  Lotus feet of the Lord!
Adiyen is only a nimittham.

There is no limit to knowing more of Him, as He is Limitless!
I say this as I seem to acquire new insights day by day!!!

Adiyen conceived more inputs on Moola prakruthi, a sort of fuild
state, when I learnt from a Mimamsa professor of mysore Veda paata
shaala, the meaning and ratioanle of Apa: in sandhya manthrams, udaga
shanti manthrams and in the course of upanayanam manthrams when we
condcuted Uapanayanam for my son last week. They all indicate that
water is the prime factor in which anything and everything can grow
and sustain.

But a doubt comes into my mind whether aapa: is the first factor.

Because texts say (taittriya upanishad- agni pUrva roopam / Adhitya
utthara roopam / aapah sandhi:) Apa: sandhi:. Water aids in
connectivity, just as how agni aids in transferring the havis.

Because water has always been regarded as something offered for
energising, as in every kind of tarpanam (thasmai ithi arpanam -
tarpanam) - this is for them. Because, even the droplets of water of
the shikai (kudumi) when it is dried after snaanam, is offered as
tarpanam.

Aapa: is that from which and in which entire creation began.It was in
that water, the Lotus sprang up from His naabhi with Brahma seated in
it and to become four faced, while initiating creation.

 It is in that water bhagawan remains as Keshava (ke= in water, shava
= as lifeless) inbetween manvanthras and inbetween kalpas, with the
three fold gunas as the three tier of the sesha- bed and the 5- fold
indriyas as the 5 hooded head of the sesha.

(As per Gita vachan) can this then be - this state of water+ 3 gunas +
5 indriyas - be the stste of moola prakruthi?

Cant be! this can be the state of Prakruthi (pl refer Gita) from whcih
repeated evolution and devolution has been taking place.

Moola prakruthi must be the pre-stage to this stage.

The water, as found mentioned in the quotes from texts I had already
given must have  been the molecualr or sub atomic or something of that
sort which we have not yet known by means of modern science.

Why I say this is beacuse of the description of Tri-karana evolution
detailed in Chandogya, of agni as the first formed, giving rise to
water and  then giving rise to prithvi.

This water is what we know as water. The water (something in fuild
sate) that existed even before this tri-karan must have  been in some
other form, usually called as ambhas by texts.

 Science may never know it. Even Vedic seers have known it intuitively
only. If one has known it, it means one will never come back to this
plane to explain it. Because that state is the state of Nirguna
Brahman. But as per Gitacharyan even those who mediate on that state
and realise that state, will ultimately reach Him only - that is, Him
as Shanku chakra gadha paani and in an ecstatic state where one can
Enjoy Him. This is altogether another topic and therefore let me stop
it here.

Regards,
jayasree saranathan.



On 4/15/06, Maaran's Dog <bsundarrajansrivilliputtur@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>  Shri:
>
> Dear shrimathi  Jayasree Saranathan
>
>   Adiyane's Pranaams at your Lotus Feet. (illayaa pinna)
>
>   Today i got time to read your mail. I read it fully. I can see your 
depth
> of understanding.
>
> Thanks a lot for your response.
>
> Wonderful explanation !!!.
>
> Adiyaen
>
>     Maaran's Dog !!
>
>
>
>
>Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

    SrI:

    The meaning of Moola Prakruthi has been given by the Super Giant of
    all groups, namely, Gitacharyan Himself in verses 7- 4 & 5 and 
further
    finetuned in verses 14-3 & 4 (Bhagawad Gita).
    Reading of the translation of these verses along with the context 
and
    commentaries by any acharya will answer your question on the
    difference between the two.

    For your further question,

    >>>>>>>>>>>however i am trying to understand what is moola
    pakuthi(moola prakruthi).
    Is it like a compounded gaseous substance ? made up of
    Helium,hydrogen ,nitrogen , Oxygen etc... as per our modern 
science.or
    is it like a normal soil(achith) ?

    what is the difference between moola prakruthi & prakruthi.?
    please explain this two Buzz words - Moola prakruthi & Prakruthi .
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    instead asking you to search for the various texts, let me give the
    relevant portions below and leave it to your judgement.

    
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    First begin with the Nasadiya Hymn of Creation of Rig Veda
    The Hymn of Creation (X.129) explains the origin of the world as 
the
    evolution of existent from non-existent. Water came into being 
first;
    from it was evolved intelligence by heat.
    n¡sad¡s¢nno sad¡s¢ttad¡n¢Æ A
    There was not the non-existent nor the existent then.
    tama ¡s¢ttamas¡ g£lhamagre 'praketaÆ salilaÆ sarvam¡ idam A
    Darkness was in the beginning hidden by darkness. This all was 
water.


    The Aitareya UpaniÀad states:
    ¡tm¡ v¡ idameka ev¡gra ¡s¢t A n¡nyat ki´cana miÀat A
    (I. 1.1)
    In the beginning this was but the absolute self alone. There was
    nothing else whatsoever.
    sa im¡Æ¤allok¡nas¤jata A ambhomar¢cirmaram¡po . . . .
    (I. 1.2)
    He created these worlds, viz., ambhas; mar¢ci; mara and ¡paÅ.


    Yajurveda
    áUKLA YAJURVEDA
    áatapatha Br¡hma¸a
    praj¡patirv¡ idamagra ¡s¢t A . . . tasm¡tpuruÀ¡ttaptad¡po j¡yante 
A. .
    . . ap¡Æ tapt¡n¡Æ pheno j¡yante A (V1.1.3)
    In the beginning there was only the Creator. From him the 'water' 
was
    formed; from the water heated, the 'foam' was formed.
    The B¤had¡ra¸yakopaniÀad says
    naiveha kiµcan¡gra ¡s¢t A m¤tyunaivedam¡v¤tam¡s¢t A
    tanmano'kuruta so'rcannacarat A tasy¡rcata ¡po'j¡yanta A
    (I. 2.1)
    In the beginning there was nothing. The universe was enveloped by
    death alone. He produced mind. He moved about worshipping himself. 
As
    he was worshipping himself, water was produced.
    vkiks ok vdZ% rn~;nika 'kj vklhÙkegU;rA lk i`fFkO;Hkor~A
    ¡po v¡ arkaÅ tadyadap¡Æ ¿ara ¡s¢ttamahanyata A s¡ p¤thivyabhavatA 
(I.2.2)
    Water verily is arka. What was there as froth of water hardened and 
it
    became earth (the cosmic egg, embryonic state of the Universe).
    K¤À¸a Yajurveda


    The Taittir¢yopaniÀad says:
    asadv¡ idamagra ¡s¢t A tato vai sadaj¡yata A
    tad¡tm¡naÆ svayamakuruta A tasm¡ttatsuk¤tamucyata iti AA
    (II.vii.1)
    In the beginning all this was unmanifested. From that emerged the
    manifested. The Brahman created Itself by Itself. Therefore it is
    called the self-creator.
    The Ka¶hopaniÀad says:
    na tatra s£ryo bh¡ti na candrat¡rakaÆ nem¡ vidyuto bh¡nti 
kuto'yamagniÅ A
    tamevabh¡ntamanubh¡ti sarvaÆ tasyabh¡s¡ sarvamidaÆ vibh¡ti AA
    (II. ii.15)
    There the sun does not shine, neither do the moon and the stars; 
nor
    do these flashes of lightning shine. How can fire? He shining all
    these shine; through his lustre all these are variously 
illuminated.


    Atharva Veda
    y¡r¸ave'dhiÆ salilamagra ¡s¢t A
    (K¡¸·a; XII. 8)
    Earth was formerly water upon the ocean of space.
    rohito dy¡v¡ jaj¡na A . . . . aja ekap¡do'hahaddy¡v¡ p¤thiv¢
    balena . . . .
    (XIII. 6)
    Rohita produced heaven and earth. The one footed goat, the sun made
    firm the heavens and earth with his strength.


    The Mu¸·aka UpaniÀad (II.ii.10) reiterates the words of
Ka¶hopaniÀad (II.ii.15)
    etasm¡jj¡yate pr¡¸o manaÅ sarvendriy¡¸i ca A
    khaÆ v¡yurjyotir¡paÅ p¤thiv¢ vi¿vasya dh¡ri¸¢ AA (II.1.3)
    From him originate - vital force, mind, all senses, space, air, 
fire,
    water and earth that support everything.
    tasm¡dagniÅ samidhayo yasya s£ryaÅ A
    ( II.1.5).
    From him emerges the fire (heaven) of which the sun is the fuel.
    The M¡¸·£kya K¡rik¡s say:
    svapnam¡ye yath¡ d¤Àte gandharvanagaraÆ yath¡ A
    tath¡ vi¿vamidaÆ d¤ÀtaÆ ved¡nteÀu vicakÀanaiÅ AA
    (II. 3.1)
    Just as dream and magic are seen to be unreal, or as is a city in 
the
    sky, the whole universe is known to be unreal.
    The Pra¿na UpaniÀad (III.8) equates the Sun with pr¡¸a, Earth with
    ap¡na, Space with sam¡na, Air with vy¡na and Luminosity with ud¡na.
    pr¡¸¡cchraddh¡Æ khaÆ v¡yurjyotir¡paÅp¤thiv¢ndriyaÆ manaÅ A
    (VI.4.)
    From pr¡¸a, Space, Air, Fire, Water, Earth were created.


    In addition to these traditional four Vedas, the Paµcama Veda
    Mah¡bh¡rata also has important observations on cosmogony:
    ¡k¡¿¡dabhavadv¡ri salil¡dagnim¡rutau A
    agnim¡rutasaÆyog¡tatassambhavanmah¢ AA
    (á¡ntiparvan, 180.16)
    Water was formed from the space; from water, fire and wind, and 
from
    their reaction the earth was formed.
    agnipavana saÆyukta kh¡t samukÀipate jalam A
    so'gnim¡ruta saÆyog¡t ghanatvamupapadyate AA
    tasy¡k¡¿¡nnip¡taÅ sneh¡ttiÀ¶hati yo'paraÅ A
    sa saÆghatv¡m¡p¡tto bh£mitvamanugacchati AA
    (á¡ntiparvan, 180.15)
    The water produced in the sky by fire and wind attains solid state
    owing to the reaction of fire and wind. The oily quality of the 
water
    produced from the sky takes the form of the earth.


    The S¡Ækhya system of Dar¿ana considers the origin of the
    paµcamah¡bh£tas in the atomic form by means of combinations of the
    tanm¡tr¡s:
    k¤À¸ap¡d¡c¡rya (tattvatrayavivara¸am)atr¡yaÆ kramaÅ - bh£tadeÅ
    ¿abdatanm¡traÆ j¡yate, ¿abdatanm¡traÆ bh£t¡dir¡v¤¸oti, tata ¡k¡¿o
    j¡yate, tato'sm¡t ¿abdatanm¡tr¡t spar¿a tanm¡traÆ j¡yate,
    spar¿atanm¡traÆ ¿abdatanm¡tram¡v¤¸oti, evaÆ ¿abdatanm¡trav¤t¡d
    ¡k¡¿asah¡yak¡t spar¿atanm¡tr¡d v¡yurj¡yate, tato'sm¡t 
spar¿atan-m¡tr¡t
    r£patanm¡traÆ j¡yate, r£patanm¡traÆ spar¿atanm¡tra-m¡v¤¸oti, evaÆ
    spar¿atanm¡tr¡v¤t¡d v¡yusah¡yak¡t r£patanm¡tr¡d tejo j¡yate A 
evam¡di
    A
    The ¿abdatanm¡tra produced the Space and also the spar¿atanm¡tra 
and
    the combination of the Space with the spar¿atanm¡tra produces the
    Atmosphere (V¡yu). The r£patanm¡tra is produced from the spar¿a
    tanm¡tra and envelopes the spar¿atanm¡tra. From the enveloped
    spar¿atanm¡tra, the r£patanm¡tra with the help of the V¡yu produces
    the fire etc.


    The cosmological ideas in Vedas can thus be summarised as:
    1. In the beginning there was neither the non-existent nor the 
existent.
    2. The Supreme cosmogonic force by the sheer Will to produce the
    universe first in the form of darkness enveloped in darkness.
    3. The cosmological waters ambhas got manifested next in the form 
of
    undifferentiated fluid in darkness where there was no light
    whatsoever.
    4. From the cosmic waters, combined with the motivation to move and
    probably as a consequencce of the friction, fire called arka got
    generated.
    5. Due to the action of the fire and water, wind was produced and 
the
    combination of wind, fire and water produced a froth which got
    solidified subsequently to form the earth.
    6. The Supreme Brahman who is like an uplifted thunderbolt, makes 
the
    entire universe to emerge and to move. Thus the cosmic fluid
    originates due to the motion induced by the Will of the Supreme 
Soul
    moves the undifferentiated atoms into an undifferentiated cloud of
    dark fluid which because of the friction of motion attains heat and
    gives rise to the cosmic earth (the cosmic egg or the embryonic 
state
    of the universe), which is the protostar of the modern concept of
    cosmogony. The further motion of the cosmic fluid along with the
    cosmic earth produced the ekapada aja, the sun. The sun is the 
Pr¡¸a
    and from this Pr¡¸a the Paµcabh£tas originated.
    The specific contributions by Vedas to the cosmogony, in 
superiority
    to the most modern cosmological concepts, thus include: (a) The
    concept of non-existent and non-non-existent state simultaneously; 
(b)
    The Supreme Will which motivated the non-differentiated atoms to
    combine to get differentiated into various forms like the nebula -
    ambhas; the frictional fire - arka; the protostar - cosmic earth
    (brahm¡¸·a) and finally the sun which is the pr¡¸a which
    differentiated the paµcamah¡bh£tas.


    In spite of the unprecedented advancements in the science and
    technology, we are still as enlightened as the Vedic seers and 
their
    philosophical idea -
    iyaÆ vis¤Àtiryata ¡babh£va yadi v¡ dadhe yadi v¡ na A
    yo'sy¡dhyakÀaÅ parame vyoman so a´ga veda yadi v¡ na veda AA
    (]ÎV, X.129)
    Where from has this cosmogony come; who is its chief architect?
    whether he knows or not - is still as valid and as beautiful as 
when
    it was composed.

    Please refer,

    http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Hindu_Cosmology.htm



    (Note from this writer:- From the above, the form of moola 
prakruthi
    can be deduced. For further understanding, a combined raeding of
    Chandogya and Taittriya will help)

    Pranams,
    jayasree saranathan.

    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Maaran's Dog



    Shri:

    Adiyaen;s Pranaams & Dhanyoshmin

    Can any one of you explain what is meant by moola prakruthi.
    please pardon my ignorance . i got this word from P.B.A Swamy
    vyaakyaanam book. Ref: 10.10.9 (muthal thani vithayyo... )

    i am finding very very difficult to understand the P.B.A swaamy
    vyaakyaanam itself. so unclear, confusing after reading this for 10
    times.

    Dear T.C.A , Shrimathi Sumitra & family , padmanaabhan and so on ,
    the Giants of yahoo group !! can you shed some light on it.

    The wording goes like this. 10.10.7
    ( Yenathu aaviyei, in-uyirai manakaaraamai manni undittaaay ..)

    looks easy at reading...right. vyaakyaanam is tough !!!

    The complexity goes like this . P.B.A swamy says that
    in this context .., Aavi is different from uyir. and he frequently
    uses the word Prakruthi and moola prakruthi...( Are we composed of 
4
    entities such as chith, achith,prakruthi,aathma vasthu ? )

    To some extent , i was able to understand that we all came from a
    single Golden egg shell called moola prakruthi. what is moola
    prakruthi ?

    If i understand these concepts the origin of infinite number of 
souls
    can be clearly sketch able !!

    Core References :
    1. Yen perukku il an-nalathu , Thiru-vaai mozhi Ref 1.2

    deriving from the above ., Raamanusa Nootranthathi
    goes like this...
    2. karuthariya-par-pal-uyir-kalum , pallu ulagu yaavum ... ,
    - Raamanusa Nootranthathi - amuthanaar

    Thanks for your input.

    Adiyaen


- maaran's dog


                
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