Sri: Dear BhakthAs : It is my pleasure to share with you Sriman AMR Kannan Swamy's posting in the Sri Ranga Sri list . V.Sadagopan > Dear Sri Sampige Srinivasa Swamin, > > Thank you sharing us about the origin of the word Hebbar. That was very > informative. > > You have also mentioned that Sri Ramanujacharya was not a SriVaishnava > when he was born and was born to an advaitin. Could you please refer > some authentic manuscripts regarding this claim? I don't think Sri > Ramanuja was born to an Advaitin. > > We first need to understand the social structure of Sri Ramanuja's days. > In those days everyone who followed the Vedic (vaidika) religion wore > only an urdhava pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the supreme > reality. Some of these vedic (vaidika) people might have followed > advaita philosophy as well. But the difference between now and then was > whether you are a advathi or a vishistadvaithi you always wore a urdhva > pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the supreme reality unlike the > present scenario. Therefore whatever the difference between the (present > day) smarthas and (present day) vaishnavas did not exists in those days. > In fact everyone followed smartha dharmam (the rituals prescribed in > smrithis) but lived a vaishnavite life. Therefore even if we say that > Sri Ramanuja was born in a smartha family, we need to clearly understand > that the present smartha-vaishnava grouping did not exist in those days. > For example those smarthas did not wear thri-pundram. They might have > used thiruman, srichurnam or sandal or gopi or something else to wear an > urdhva pundram. Another example is those smarthas did not accept other > deities as supreme reality. > > Adiyen still remember the words of Sri Velukkudi Varadhacharyar Swami > during one of his upanyasams in Tiruvallikkeni. Swami said, "Vaidikas > (those who follow vedic religion) may dispute among themselves whether > Advaita is the vedic philosophy, or Vishistadvaita is the vedic > philosophy or Dvaita is the vedic philosophy. But these vaidikas will > never dispute whether Sriman Narayana is the supreme reality or some > other deity is the ultimate truth. Because Sriman Narayana's supremacy > is what vedic philosophy and that is what all vaidikas including > Advaitis, Vishishtadvaitis and Dvaitis believe." But of course the > present day situation is different. We should not gauge those days with > present day's standards. > > Now the question comes, how do we know for sure? We need to read the > great works done by those acharyas. For example, Sri Adhi > Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashayam (in particular 2nd chapter > (Avirodhathyayam, Dharga Padham) will be a good place to start about Sri > Shankaracharya's position on various religions practiced in his days. > Similarly, Sri Shankaracharya's Sri Gita Bhashayam and Sri Vishnu > Sahasranama Bhashayam would be equally good to read in order to > understand his philosophy. > > But if we want to know the essence of these writings, there are two > excellent books written by Puththur Sri Sudharshanam Sri > Krishnamachariyar Swami entitled: 1. Sanga Kala Tamizhar Samayam 2. > Shankararum Vainavamum. These two books were written with authenticity. > These books are in Tamil. So, someone needs to translate them for > everyone to read. They are truly eye-openers for many misconceived > thoughts. > > Adiyen Ramanujadasan Kannan > > >>===== Original Message From "Sampige Srinivasa" <sampiges@xxxxxxxxxxx> > ===== >>Dear Sri. Balaji, >> >>Yes Hebbar Iyengars were not originally Srivaishnavas as you said and > also >>it is true that even Sri. Ramanujacharya was not a Srivaishnava when he > was >>born. He was born to an advaitin! So when Ramanuja preached > Vishistadvaita, >>Srivaishnavism became popular in Tamilnadu and as you said, when >>Sri.Ramanjua fled from TN and settled in Karnataka for 12 long years it >>spread to Southern Parts of Karnataka. >> >>The details of Hebbar Srivaishnava origin was published long back in > the >>Hebbar Srivaishnava magazine called "Hebbar Kshema" and I remember > reading >>this. Also a historical novel written by Smt. Neeladevi about the life > of >>Ramanjuja in Karnataka named "Dhanya" gives similar answers to the > orgin of >>Hebbar Srivaishnavas >> >>During the time when ramanjuja was in Tondanur(Tonnur) near Melukote, a >>group of elderly Kannada Brahmins came to Ramanjua and offered to > convert to >>Srivaishnava Religion impressed by Ramanujas philosophy of > Vishistadvaita. >>Ramanjua affectionately called the group of Hiriya Haruva(Elderly > Brahmin >>Kannadigas) as Hebbar and thus originated the sect called Hebbar >>Sivaishnava(Iyengars). So Hebbar Srivaishnavas are originally Kannada >>Brahimins(Advaitins) who got converted to Srivaishnavas impressed by > the >>teachings of Sri. Ramanuja and not of backward Caste as you said. >> >>Ramanuja asked them to settle in different places of the Hoysala >>Kingdom(Current South Karnataka) and thus you can find many Hebbar >>Srivaishnavas mainly in the souther districts of Karnatka especially, >>Bangalore, Mysore, Mandya, Tumkur, Hassan, Kolar and Chamarajanagar >>districts. >> >>They have their kuladaivams or Haath perumal in different places of > these >>districts. for more info. Please visit > www.karnatkavaishanavatemples.net >><http://www.karnatkavaishanavatemples.net/> >> >>Since their mother tongue was Kannada they still have the affliction > towards >>kannada. Gradually they learnt to speak Tamil mainlyu to learn the > Divya >>Prabhandams. >> >>But still Hebbar Srivaishnavas cannot read and write in Tamil. They > read the >>Ramanujas philosophical works and Alwars divya prabhandams translated > to >>Kannada or English. But they recite Nalayara divyaprabhandams in > Temples in >>Karnataka forming Gostis. They are called Melnatu Iyengars as they are >>residing in the High plateau of Karnataka. Another sect called Keelnatu >>Iyengars are those who migrated to Karnataka from Tamilnadu, which is > lower >>than the Plateau of Karnataka. >> >>I request any one in the groups who can give more info on a unique sect >>called Hebbar Srivaishnavas of Karnataka. >> >>Om namO nArAyanAya >>Sampige Srinivasa Iyengar >>Bengalooru >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Oppiliappan-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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