SrI: Some instances to show that vaishanvism existed before Ramanuja's period. (1) In the very early times, that is, soon after creation, it has been told in scriptures, that Vishnu, after doing Jatha karma and naama karma to His first ever uthpaththi(child) Brahma, proceeded to mark the Shanku-chakra in his shoulders and then applied oordhwa pundaram that culminated in pancha samskaram. Brahma is perhaps the FIRST Srivaishnavan of the universe.This episode also clarifies that Srivaishnavism does not come as a birth right and as old as creation itself. (2) When Thirumangai Alwar wanted to marry Kumuda valli, she said that she could not marry unless the person had undergone pancha samskaram and the Alwar rushed to Thirunaraiyoor (naachiyar koil) and had the samashrayan done by God Himself. This is prior to Ramanuja's period. (3) You will find in Thirunagai (nagapattinam ) sannidhi, the 18 vaarthaigal advised by Thirukkottiyoor nambigal to Ramanuja written on the wall. Vaishnavattwam is said to come at the 10th level only. Prior to coming to attain it, the following must be removed. 1. removal of desire in samsaram 2. this leads to removal of ahankaara, mamakaaram 3. this leads to removal of deha abhimaanam 4. this leads to birth of athma gyanam 5. this leads to hatred towards aeishwarya moham 6. this leads to onset of prema on bhagwan. 7. this leads to shedding of interest in vishayantharangal 8. this leads to bhara thanthruva gyanam 9. this leads to removal of artha-kaama ragadwesham (ref: BG 4-10- Madhbhavam) 10. this leads to onset of srivaishanttwam! (4) It happened in Kulashekara alwar's life. When the ministers of the alwar blamed srivaishnavites,for the disappearance of the navarathna maalai in the thiruaaparana petti, the alwar refused to believe. He was steadfast in his belief that srivaishnavites are pure on tri-kaaran - they are pure in mind, vaak and body. He even put his hand in a pot that had a serpent inside and pledged that he would not be bitten by the serpent, because no srivaishnavite can do such a crime. And he was unhurt. This shows how deep-rooted the ethos which a srivaishnavite is identified with. Unless a strong code culture for vaishnavites had existed for long, the alwar could not have gone to such extremes. (5) A quote on the dialogue between Yama dharma raja and Sri Krishna. I think this comes in Mahabharataha. Yamadjharman instructed his messengers to prostrate before the srivaishnavites. A srivaishnavite can be identified in the following way. " Ye baahu moola parichinha shanka-chakra: Yeva lalaada palakelasa oordhwa pundra: Ye kanda lagna thulasi nalinaaksha mala: Teh vaishnava: bhuvana maashubha vidhrayanthi" The srivaishnavite can be identified by the shanku-chkra chinnam, oordhwa pundaram and the thulasi maala. (6) Sri Krishna was said to have instructed his dwaara- paalagas, before leaving the fort of Dwaaraka, to allow sv-s inside, who can be identified by the shanku-chakra dhaaranam and the oordhwa pundaram. " chakraangitha: praveshtavyaa: Yaavadaagamanam mama, Naamudhritha: praveshtavyaa: Yaavadaagamanam mama" Inference:- Srivaishnavism with the significatory marks and practices had existed for very long. But it was Ramanuja who had arranged or codified them into a body of dos and donts for easy following and hence came to be identified as founder of srivaishnavism. Jayasree saranathan. --- In Oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, honganour krishna <hokrishna@xxxx> wrote: > Dear Bhakthas, > Followers of Vishnu are called as Vishnavas. And a vishnava could be a brahmin, Kshtarya, or Vysya. To my knowledge nowhere in Ramayana, Mahabharatha, or in Vishnu Purana a single mention of Srivishnava is mentioned. These being the great epics and running in volumes has no mention of Srivishnava brahmin but one will come across mention of mearly vishnava brahmin. Lord Rama and Lord Krishna who were Vishnavas never had Srivishnava Namam on their fore-head. If Srivishnavism existed in the days of Rama then atleast single mention of it would have been made in the Ramayana. We all know Rama had come across so many different catagories of people existing at that time in his journey from north to extreme south. It is very clear that Srivishnavism was not there during Rama and Krishna Days. Srivishnavism must have been started some time later. In Hindu culture most of the great people are very modest that they do not claim there authorship or finding and Srivishnavism is one of them. > > Adiyen Krishna Ramanuja dasan >it your home page ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. 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