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Dear Jayasree Saranathan madam and sri vaishnava perunthagaiyeer,

On the point of relying on age of 17 based on slOkam 2-20?45 of 
ayOdhya kaaNdam, by Prof: Vartak, I have to add following. 

First what Smt. Jayasree said. Quote: 
Coming to the points raised in your mail, Prof Varthak has been right 
in having taken the age of 17 as the time when the coronation was 
fixed. The sloka, he has quoted in support of this, runs like this.

"dasha sapta ca varSaaNi tava jaatasya raaghava |
asitaani prakaankSantyaa mayaa duhkha parikSayam || 2-20-45

"Oh, Rama! I have been waiting for seventeen years after your second 
birth of thread ceremony, with the hope that my troubles will 
disappear at one time or the other." (unquote)

Please note the word used by Kausalya. "tava jaatasya" has been 
translated as the thread ceremony here. 

I request scholars to explain the usage of this term to mean the 
thread ceremony. 
Unquote:

MGV: I would like to add from same 20th sargam next slokam 
thadhakshayam mahaa dhukham nOtsahE sahithum chiram |
viprakaaram sapathneenaam Evam jeerNaapi raaghava || 2-20-46

raaghava = oh, Rama! 
thath = for that reason, 
Evam = in the way 
jeerNaapi = even if old aged, 
na uthsahE = I do not wish 
sahithum = to bear 
viprakaaram = insult 
sapathneenaam = of co-wives, 
akshayam = un-ending 
mahath = great 
dhukham = sorrow 
chiram = for long time

meaning: Oh, Rama! In this old age, I cannot bear insult from co-
wives and this unending sorrow for a long time.

sthhiram hi noonam hrudhayam mama aayasam | na bhidhyathE yadh bhuvi 
na avadheeryathE |
anEna dhukhEna cha dhEham arpitham | dhruvam hi akaalE maraNam na 
vidhyathE || 2-20-51

51. anEna dhukhEna = By the grief, 
dhEham = body 
arpitham = is pierced. 
noonam = indeed 
mama = my 
hrudhayam = heart 
sthhiram = which is hard 
aayasam = is made of iron. 
yath = for which reason 
na bhidhyathE = it is not broken 
na avadheeryathE = it has not fallen into pieces, 
bhuvi = on the floor 
na vidhyathE = There is no 
akaale = untimely 
maraNam = death 
dhruvam = It is certain.

Meaning: This grief has gone into my body. Even then, my heart is 
stable. It has not broken into pieces and fallen on the floor. It is 
indeed made of iron. There is no untimely death, it is certain".

Comment: 1. In the mood of so much grief, mental strain and agony of 
separation, perhaps the figure of 17, what a mother says, can be 
taken as incorrect. That too, of mother kousalya, when she is 
sorrowful, for she is seeing her son off, when she was just 
anticipating the happy news of raamaa's coronation. She says my heart 
is of iron and not breaking ? so much sorrow. In that stage, chances 
are very bright that figures are likely to be misquoted. [But that 17 
years is also correct as per derivation given below].

2. Against this scene, Just compare this with a wife introducing 
herself in clear terms to a third party, "that we lived happily for 
twelve years after our marriage and in the thirteenth year, king 
monarch proposed the coronation" as given in my earlier post. If 
those are to be discounted ? means something concrete is being 
brushed aside. 

3. Further one more argument can be advanced ? seethaa is also in a 
stressed mood after having heard raama is in trouble against the 
golden deer, because his voice of distress. But in reality, seethaa 
is not that grieving situation, like kousalya, for she is in her 
clear terms. That is understood from the way she introduces herself 
to raavanan, carrying out the athithi samskaaram to raavaNan thinking 
that he is a real sanyaasi. Later when he reveals himself as 10 
headed only, she becomes afraid. 

On to this `jaata' ? Monier Williams dictionary gives following 
meanings.
jāta 
jātá mfn. (√jan 
? ifc. Pāṇ. 6-2, 171) born, brought into existence by (loc.), 
engendered by (instr. or abl.) RV. &c 
? grown, produced, arisen, caused, appeared ib. 
? ifc. (cf. Pāṇ. 2-2, 5 Kāś. ; 36 Vārtt. 1 ; vi, 2, 
170) See māsa-, 
saptâha-, &c 
? appearing on or in VarBṛS. lī, 5 ff 
? destined for (dat.) RV. iv, 20, 6 ; ix, 94, 4 
? turning to (dat.) Sāh. iii, 58/59 
? happened, become, present, apparent, manifest TS. VS. &c 
? belonging to (gen.) RV. i, 83, 5 ; viii, 62, 10 
? ready at hand Pañcat. ii, 16 
? possessed of (instr.) MBh. iv, 379 
? often ifc. instead of in comp. (cf. Pāṇ. 2-2, 36 Vārtt. 1 ; 
vi, 2, 
170 f 
? g. āhitâgny-ādi), e.g. kiṇa-, danta-, &c., qq.vv 
? m. a son RV. ii, 25, 1 AV. xi, 9, 6 ŚBr. xiv Pañcat. 
? a living being (said of men, rarely of gods) RV. iv, 2, 2 ; v, 15, 
2 ; x, 12, 3 AV. xviii VS. viii, 36 
? N. of a son of Brahmā PadmaP. v 
? n. a living being, creature RV. 
? birth, origin, i, 156, 2 and 163, 1 ; iii, 31, 3 
? race, kind, sort, class, species, viii, 39, 6 AV. &c 
? a multitude or collection of things forming a class (chiefly ifc., 
e.g. karma-', the whole aggregate of actions' Mn. vii, 61/62 sukha-
, 'anything or everything included under the name pleasure' Gīt. x, 
3) Mn. ix MBh. &c 
? individuality, specific condition (vyakta) L. 
? = -karman NārS. 
? (impers. with double instr.) it turned out or happened that Rājat. 
v, 364 [Page 417, Column 3] 
? (ā), f. a daughter W. 
? [cf.-? ; Germ. Kind ; Lith. gentis.] 

So on a first study this `jaatha' means born, brought into existence. 
But how this jaatha is taken as second birth is some thing to be 
probed further.

On a further analysis, the `jaatha karman' is performed immediately 
or on the day of a child's birth. That is confirmed as in `manu 
smruthi' chapter 2, which reads as follows.  

Quote: 
2.2.1 Jatakarman
Before the navel-string is cut, the Jatakarman (birth-rite) must be 
performed for a male (child); and while sacred formulas are being 
recited, he must be fed with gold, honey, and butter. [v.2.29.]. 
unquote:

Now smt. Jayasree's point: quote: 
If it is taken as jaata karma - naama karma done soon after birth, 
Raama's age can be literally taken as 17 as per this sloka. Again if 
we look into the Valmiki Ramayana for the time of thread ceremony for 
Raama, we come across this verse.

"braahmaNaan bhojayaamaasa pauraan jaanapadaan api |
udadad braahmaNaanaam cha ratnaugham amalam bahu || 1-18-23
teSaam janma kriya aadIni sarva karmaaNi akaarayat |

The king feasted Brahmans, urbanites and villagers and he gifted many 
valuable gems to Brahmans in an unlimited way, and all the rituals of 
birth and ceremonies sequel to it like naming ceremony, first-food-
feeding ceremony, first-hair-removal ceremony, and sacred thread 
ceremony are performed in respect of the princes. [1-18-23, 24a] 

The years in which these have been done is not mentioned, but sounds 
that the thread ceremony was pretty early considering the sequence of 
ceremonies mentioned in this verse. Unquote: 

MGV: I wish to add the next slOkam of baala kaaNdam same sargam - 

sarvE vEdha vidha: sooraa: sarvE lOkahithE rathaa: || 1-18-25
sarvE j~naanOpasampannaa: sarvE samudhithaa guNai: |

25b, 26a. sarvE vEdha vidha: = all princes are, in VEdhaas, scholars; 
sooraa: = valiant ones; 
sarvE lOka hithE rathaa: = all are, in worlds', welfare, interested; 
sarvE j~naana upa sampannaa: = all are, intellectual ones; 
sarvE samudhithaa guNai: = all are, possessors of, with merits - air 
of probity.

Meaning: All the princes are scholars in VEdhaas, valiant ones, all 
are interested in the welfare of the world, all are intellectuals and 
all of them possess an air of probity. [1-18-25b, 26a]. 

Point: So, one to become qualified to study vEdhaas, as per manu 
smruthi, they should be initiated. That has to be done, as per manu 
smruthi, in the age of SIX [6] for kshathriyaas [raama being a 
kshathriya]. See portion of manu smruthi

Quote:  Part 2: The Brahmacari Asrama
2.3 Upanayana
2.3.1 The time
In the eighth year after conception, one should perform the 
initiation (upanayana) of a Brahmana, in the eleventh after 
conception (that) of a Kshatriya, but in the twelfth that of a 
Vaisya. [v.2.36.]

(The initiation) of a Brahmana who desires proficiency in sacred 
learning should take place in the fifth (year after conception), 
(that) of a Kshatriya who wishes to become powerful in the sixth, 
(and that) of a Vaisya who longs for (success in his) business in the 
eighth. [v.2.37.]

The (time for the) Savitri (initiation) of a Brahmana does not pass 
until the completion of the sixteenth year (after conception), of a 
Kshatriya until the completion of the twenty-second, and of a Vaisya 
until the completion of the twenty-fourth. [v.2.38.]

After those (periods men of) these three (castes) who have not 
received the sacrament at the proper time, become Vratyas (outcasts), 
excluded from the Savitri (initiation) and despised by the Aryans. 
[v.2.39.]

With such men, if they have not been purified according to the rule, 
let no Brahmana ever, even in times of distress, form a connexion 
either through the Veda or by marriage. [v.2.40.]

4.3 First, second & third birth 
According to the injunction of the revealed texts the first birth of 
an Aryan is from (his natural) mother, the second (happens) on the 
tying of the girdle of Munja grass, and the third on the initiation 
to (the performance of) a (Srauta) sacrifice. [v.2.169.]

Among those (three) the birth which is symbolised by the investiture 
with the girdle of Munja grass, is his birth for the sake of the 
Veda; they declare that in that (birth) the Savitri (verse) is his 
mother and the teacher his father. [v.2.170.]

They call the teacher (the pupil's) father because he gives the Veda; 
for nobody can perform a (sacred) rite before the investiture with 
the girdle of Munja grass. [v.2.171.]

(He who has not been initiated) should not pronounce (any) Vedic text 
excepting (those required for) the performance of funeral rites, 
since he is on a level with a Sudra before his birth from the Veda. 
[v.2.172.]

The (student) who has been initiated must be instructed in the 
performance of the vows, and gradually learn the Veda, observing the 
prescribed rules. [v.2.173.]

Whatever dress of skin, sacred thread, girdle, staff, and lower 
garment are prescribed for a (student at the initiation), the like 
(must again be used) at the (performance of the) vows. [v.2.174.]

Unquote:

Note: the manu smrithi translation is taken from internet.

MGV: Now, my point is as stated by kousalya she waited for 17 years, 
after raamaa's second birth ? that is the initiation in study of 
vEdhaas is done to raama as per manu smruthi or saasthraas, [we can 
definitely take that, for raama, the rituals are all done as per 
saasthraas ? that was derived from the composition of the gurus and 
the super cabinet, king dhasaratha had, consisting of vasishta and 
other rishis] - not like kali ? this era. 

So now raama is 24 ? for kousalya waited for 17 years after 
initiation in study of vEdhaas at the age of 6, and now it is 18th 
year ? the period of coronation and being exiled. This CAN DEFINITELY 
BE TAKEN AS CORRECT. 

The other point of raamaa's marriage is at 12 + lived for 12 years as 
per seetha slokam already quoted and repeated here, also more or less 
tallies. So this `thava jaathasya' as the second birth - thread 
ceremony also appears ok. 

mama bharthaa mahaathEjaa vayasaa pancha vimsaka || 3-47-10
aSTaa dasha hi varshaaNi mama janmani gaNyathE |

Meaning: My great-resplendent husband was of twenty-five years of age 
[at that time] and to me, eighteen years are reckoned up from my 
birth.

But leaving for forest at 17 is the thing, which is not ok. So we 
have to look for more evidence. The intention of writing this, is not 
to bring in any controversy etc but go into some more `depth' of 
raamaayaNam.  

Dhasan
Vasudevan m.g.






 
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