srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
srImadh varavara munayE namaha
Dear Members.
This is fairly a long message but an interesting one and also an
important fact file. So please read this carefully without omitting
any part.
I am reproducing below a question that I posted in "sv-poetry" list
and reposted in "sv-general" on the request of Sri Mani Varadarajan
I am posting this in our list for everyone to know the facts. It is
surprising that some our thennAchArya sampradhAyasthars talk about
swAmy dEsikan being an ardent vadagalai AchArya, while the fact is
NOT AT ALL. This message will have very few citations from his works
where one can see that his views are nothing but the same as that of
Sri piLLai lOkAchAriyar and Sri maNavALa mAmunigaL.
Foreword : I sent this message to Sri Oppiliappan Koil Varadachari
Sadagopan as a query to one of his mails on SaraNAgathi deepikai of
swAmi dEsikan.
--------------------Quote 1 --------------------------------
srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
srImadh varavara munayE namaha
Dear Sri Sadagopan swamy,
You wrote:
------------------ Sub Quote--------------
karmasvanAdhi vishamEshu samO DayALu:
svEnaiva kluptham apadesam avEkshamANa:
svaprApathayE tanu-bhruthAm thvarasE Mukundha
svAbhAvikam Tava suhrutthvam idham gruNanthi
--SrI SaraNAgathi DhIpikai: SlOkam 14
(Meaning): Oh ViLakkoLi PerumALE! Oh MOksha-DhAyaka MukundhA ! The
JeevAthmA acquires a sarIram (body) because of its previous karmAs.
Its karma vinais are timeless and anAdhi. Those poorva karmAs yield
the jeevan many kinds of fruits.
Oh Lord! You have no natural likes or dislikes about anyone. You are
equanimous in Your conduct towards all of the chEthanams. Even
then,You can only grant the fruits to each jeevAthmA according to
their karmAs. Your dayA guNam is matchless. Inspite of that abundant
compassion , You will be accused of partiality if You grant mOksham
to a ChEthanam that has not used the means (upAyam ) to seek Your
grace. If You do that for one jeevan , then You have to grant the
mOksham to all jeevans independent of whether they have performed any
UpAya anushtAnam or not . Theredore , You await the performance of
the easiest to practise upAyam of Prapatthi.Even that performance of
Prapatthi by the Jeevan is caused by You. You facilitate the
performance of that UpAyam and immediately after rush to the side of
the ChEthanam to grant him the parama gathi of Moksham. This
generous and compassionate act of Yours has been described by sages
as a proof of Your innate deep affection and friendship towards the
Jeevans.
-----------------------------End Subquote-------------------
I have a small doubt regarding the above. In this sloka Swamy Desikan
states that He is waiting for a small pretext on the jeevAthmA, i.e.,
performing prapatti, to take the jeevAthmA unto Him. Swamy Desikan
also says that this performance of prapatthi by the jeevAthmA is also
induced by Him only. If that is so, what is the act on the part of
the jeevAthmA [that he did something (sAdhyOpAyam)] to earn mOksha.
On the other hand, if one agrees that the jeevAthmA is completely
bound by the leela of Sriman nArAyaNan, and that is why He Himself
induces the jeevAthmA to do prapatti, then why should He look for a
vyAja (pretext) at all on the part of the jeevAthmA to grant mOksha.
Isn't this a short coming on Him that He is expecting something and
does this not go against the very title "avAptha samastha kAman" (The
one who is completely fulfilled and needs no more from anybody).
Request you to kindly enlighten me on the above.
AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
---------------------End Quote------------------------------------
Now he replied for this query of mine as follows ;
---------------------Quote 2-----------------------------
Dear SrImaAn Venkatesh:
Please accept my Panguni Uttharam day greetings
to You . May the SrIrangam Dhivya Dampathis' blessings
be with you always!
Your question is most welcome . I will respond to
it to the best of my ability. This issue of our Lord's
spontaneous grace (nirhEthuka KrupA)versus conscious
human effort (sahRthuka KrupA) to qualify for it
has attracted the attention of brilliant minds
from AchArya RaamAnujA's time onwards to today .
What I am going to say is hence nothing new .
Different AchArya paramparais have taken different
positions . I was explaining the view of
Swamy Desikan . Yet , there is a way that bridges
the nirhEthuka KrupA and sahEthuka KrupA.
The quick answer to your query is that BhagavAn
out of His krupA directs the Jeevan to a sadAchAryan
and the Prapatthi done thru that SadAchAryan results
in the Lord's acceptance of that Prapatthi. SadAchaaryan
essentially prepares the jeevan with sadupadEsam
on Tathtva Thrayam , performs upadEsams on
the three manthrAs and offers that " prepared" jeevan
back to the owner. Thus the Lord as Sarva rakshakan ,
Sahaja Suhruth , Sarvajn~an , Sarva SakthimAn and
avAptha samastha kaaman has a dual role here to play
without contradiction to His nirhEthuka KrupA.
Spontaneous grace of the Lord is thus intertwined
with the minimal human effort that precedes it.
The usual analogy given is the spontaneous flow of
Mother's milk and the minimal effort on the part of
the infant to gain it .
To avoid any thought of arbitrariness and
partiality ( Vaishamya NairguNya DhOsham ),
Our Lord accepts the vyAjam of Prapatthi
to shower His abundant grace . The opportunity
to seek a sadAchAryan and engage in the path of
a spiritual discipline is provided by the Lord
Himself in rcognition of good and meritorious
deed performed by the jeevan consciously
or otherwise . Our Lord's grace is recognized here
as the prime cause (pradhAna hEthu ) and Prapatthi
is viewed as the accessory cause (SahakAri KaaraNam).
The vyAja of Prapatthi is the link/bridge between
the two kinds of KrupA.
The third verse of NyAsa Dasakam of Swami Desiakn
has been my guiding light in these matters as pointed
out by my AchAryan, who has placed aatma-rakshA-bharam
at the Thiruvadi of MaalOlan :
SvAmi svasEsham svavasam sva-bharathvEna nirbharam
svadhattha-svadhiyA svArTam svasmin nyasyathi maam svayam
This powerful slOkam emphasizing Saathvika ThyAgam
consisting of the three parts ( Karthruthva ,
MamathA and Phala ThyAgams) underlines the following
important points pertinent to NyAsa VidhyA or Prapatthi
yOgam:
1. SrIman NaarAyaNan is the Supreme Lord of all (SvAmi).
2. I am Your bonded servant/adimai (Sva-sEsham).
3. I am controlled by You (sva-vasam).
4. You have blessed me with the Jn~Anam about You
(Sva-dhattha sva-dhiyA)." You have enabled me
to know Your nature.You have endowed me with
the capacity to think."
5. SvArTam nirbharam sva-bharathvEna Svayam Svasmin
nyasyathi ( " You Yourself have made me surrender
myself to You for Your own pleasure with the responsibility
of protecting it and getting rid of that burden from me").
The Fourteenth slOkam of SrI SaraNAgathi DhIpikai
echos some of the thoughts of the above NyAsa Dasakam
slOkam .
SrImath Azhagiya Singar ThiruvadigaLE SaraNam ,
Oppiliappan Koil VaradAchAri SadagOpan
----------------------End Quote ------------------------------
For this I posted another one proving from swAmi dEsikars' works
itself that his views are same as that of thennAchArya sampradAya
views.
-----------------------Quote 3-----------------------------------
srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
srImadh varavara munayE namaha.
Dear srImAn Sadagopan swamy.
First let me reciprocate the Panguni Utthiram greetings to you. Thank
you for your blessings on this holy day. I thank you very much for
the immediate and elaborate reply. I still have that original doubt.
The analogy of the mother's milk flow to the baby sucking it fits
very well. But my doubt is that, do you say, the jeevAtmA has a
little svAthanthryam on his/her part to do something so that it
becomes a pretext for Sriman nArAyan to grant him/her the mOksham?
If that is so, what actually the jeevAthmA is doing on his part. You
have clearly stated that Sriman nArAyaNan shows a sadhAchAryan to the
jeevAthmA and from there the sadhAchAryan takes the jeevAthmA to the
point of doing prapatti and actually helps him in doing it. If that
is the case, the seed is sowed by emberumAn only and once the seed is
sown, it is natural on the part of the jeevAthmA to proceed in just
the same way as the plants grow.However, if you are to say that, just
sowing is not enough and someone has to water the plant, please note
that, here the watering is done by the sadhAchAryan and no effort is
needed on the part of the plant. But when the plant is watered
properly it is natural for it to grow. So the plant is actually doing
nothing and that is the position of jeevAthmA. Again superimposing
this analysis on the krupa issue, please note that Thirumazhsaii
AzhwAr in his Thirucchanda viruttham, says that emberumAn is capable
of turning the back the jeevAthmA into wrong ways, if He wishes and
this is due to His nirankusa swAthanthriyam.
pAsuram 85:
nacharAvaNaikkidandha nAdha! pAdha pOdhinil
vaittha sindhai vAnguvitthu neenguvikka nee inam
meitthan vallaiyAdhalAl aRindhanan nin mAyamE
uiytthu nin mayakkinil mayakkal ennai mAyanE
[AzhwAr says, "vaittha sindhai vAnguvithhu". This means He is capable
to taking back the thoughts (about Him) that He has given to the
AzhwAr (and hence the jeevAthmA) and also "neenguvitthu", meaning,
completely getting rid off. His capability is expressed by the
words " meitthan vallai" (surely you can). Finally says by doing this
He is mesmerising (mayakkinil) him (AzhwAr) and hence "please do not
do this to me"].
This pAsuram clearly, without any sibling of doubts in one's mind,
brings out the "nirankusa swAthanthriyam" of emberumAn. So if He can
change the thoughts as per His wish as per the above pAsuram, what is
the need for Him to expect anything at all from the jeevAthmA to
bestow His grace. So it seems that, it is only emberumAn who out of
His own wish and sankalpa & kAruNyam and krupA, takes the jeevAthmA
on the right path and hence give the salvation.
On the other hand, if, as you said, He bestows this grace on the
jeevAthmA, only based on his past good deeds according to the karma
theory, then it is again a shortcoming on the part of emberumAn. This
time it is on His guNA of "nirankusa swAthanthriyam" (Unfettered
independence). This attribute of emberumAn is one of the main
attributes glorified by all our poorvAchAryAs. As said above, if He
is to bestow the grace, based on karma theory, then He will be only
called as "sAstra vasyan" (bound by sAstrAs) and not "nirankusa
swathanthran". Well, one may say that, the sAstrAs were created by
Him, so there is nothing wrong if He follows it. Please note, there
is nothing wrong if He "follows" it, but it cannot be that He is
bound by it. As all of us know, He created the sAstrAs, basically as
a guideline for us to lead a peaceful life. So He cannot be bound by
the sAstrAs.
Also, the nyAsa dasakam slOka which you have cited very clearly
proves that there is no independant effort on the part of the
jeevAthmA to earn His grace. Please note that the slOkA ends with the
arterious words "nyasyathi mAm svayam" ("You" make me surrender to
you). So how is it that the jeevAthmA is doing something at all on
his part to attain His grace.
Recently I was reading a book by Sri P.B Annangarachariar swamy in
which he has quoted from MunivAhana bhOgam of swAmy dEsikar, the
following. In the avathArikai, swAmy dEsikar says "kAraNa vasthu
innadhenRu aRudhiyida mudiyAdha krupaiyinAlE......". Very clearly
swAmy dEsikar says, that there is no reason for His grace. So how is
it that some thing on the part of the jeevAthmA is required to
receive His grace. I ask this question, as you have stated this as
swAmy dEsikar's view. Maybe if there is a different interpretation to
the above avathArikai, please enlighten me about it.
Request you to kindly enlighten me on the above.
AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,
Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
------------------------End Quote ------------------------
I posted this message to the list on 29th March 2002. Then followed
by another on 2nd April 2002
---------------------------Quote 4---------------------------
srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
srImadh varavara munayE namaha
Dear srImAn Sadagopan swamy,
While I await your clarification on the below matter, another thought
came into my mind about it. Though at the outset, the mother-child
analogy looks fit enough for some act on the part of the jeevAthmA,
this is the one which will very clearly prove against it.
When the child is born, who is teaching the child to suck the milk
and how are they teaching. Does the mother teach the child? No. The
child by nature does this job of sucking the milk. This is exactly
the position of the jeevAthmA before ajnyAnA pervades him. Like the
sucking is natural for the child, the knowledge that the jeevAthmA is
a servant and slave of paramAtmA is very natural for the jeevAthmA
and indeed it is one of the attributes of the jeevAthmA. Also does
the child suck the milk, because it knows that, otherwise it will
die? No. Again it is its nature or swaroopam. The child does not know
that the action of sucking the milk is an upAya for its life. Like
wise doing prapatti in its true form as "tvamEva upAya bhoothO me
bhava ithi prArthanA mathi: saraNAgathi" (that is the prayer for
emberumAn Himself to be upAyam is called prapatti) is natural or
swaroopam for the jeevAthmA and it cannot be construed as a
sAdhyOpAyam. On part of the mother (or emberumAn at the macro level),
whether the child asks for milk (by way of crying) or not, she knows
the right time to feed the child as she has utmost krupA over the
child and anything to the child will be a loss to her. So here
emberumAn knows when to feed the jeevAtmA with His grace and does it
at the right time. When the flow of grace is there all that jeevAtmA
has to do is to accept it . Again, for example a grown up child
(grown enough to do some mischief but still on breast feeding) makes
a mistake, does the mother make the child starve, especially if it is
only her milk which is the diet for the child. No way. This is the
kAruNyam of the mother towards her child and the same on part of
emberumAn towards the chEtana. Here it is only the grace of emberumAn
that can save the chEtana and the emberumAn knows this, even if the
chEtana is not aware of this.
Based on all the above, the analogy of Mother-Child only goes to
prove that there is nothing on the part of the chEtana that he can do
as an upAya to attain the grace of emberumAn. Request you to kindly
clarify on the above lines too.
AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
----------------------------End Quote----------------------------
To this, there is no reply till date. Do you think from the above,
that they can answer. Instead, they are calling us fanatics and other
things.
Rest assured. Those who believe, AzhwArs, have to be the thennAchAryA
way. I will continue to post some more messages like this as a sort
of FACT-FILES about our sampradhAyam. This is for everyone to
understand what is going on.
Request your feedbacks and additional inputs to uphold the above
points.
AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
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