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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00147 Aug 2004

 
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Dear Bhagavatas,

An interesting email from my father i wanted to share
with all.

Adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Aravindan 
******************************************
In the latest issues of Kumudam Bhakti, we are
translating Brahma sutras which deal with Buddhism. As
you may know the second chapter of BS is called
Avirodha Adhyaya and the sutras therein argue how
other philosophies like Lokayata, Jaina, Sankya,  Yoga
Nyaya,,Vaishshika, Pasupatha are not supported by the
Vedas .I thought you will like the arguments of BS
against Buddhism as I found them a delight to my
rational mind and hence this letter.

First I will give the English translation of what we
have written as introduction to the Adhikaranam
dealing with Buddhism and then I will try to give you
a translation of Sri Bhashya to give you a sample of
the great intellect of Sri Ramanuja.

 

Let us understand the essentials of Buddhism as an
introduction to the Sutras that follow.

Buddhism is divided into two main  branches,
Mahayana(great Path) and Hinayana(lower path) Hinayana
has again two branches called Vaibhashika and
Southrandhika. Mahayana is divided into Yogachara or
Vignanavada and Madhyamika.

 

Two thousand five hundred years ago(circa BC
563-483)lived Gautama Buddha one of the outstanding
thinkers of mankind. His life history is fairly known
to all of us.

 

What he realised as the fundamental truth is this. In
the universe every thing is changing every moment.
Even the rocks and mountains change, slowly but
surely. There in nothing that does not change.

So, anything that changes cannot be true, meaning
permanent What is true is change and not objects of
change.  So nothing exists.(if you slice every moment
into infinite parts and say that in every one of those
parts things change, you will realise this)

 

This Sunya philosophy  (nihilism) based on Khana
Bhanga Nyayam, can be translated in English as under.

 

Everything is changing and nothing is constantly
existing. Since nothing has constant existence, it
follows that nothing is real, or, only Nothing is
real. Thus, nothing in fact exists.

 

On the basis of the above principle of transience,
Buddhists are called Sunyavadhis or Kshanikas.

Let us now see the differences among the four
branches.

 

The external world of objects, thro our senses, 
becomes our internal world How can we say that our
internal world is the exact replica of the external
world?.

Our senses may alter the external world and present to
us an internal world, which may be totally different
from the external world. Also we have said that every
thing changes every moment . So both the external and
internal worlds are changing, moment to moment.

 

The Vaibhashikas say that though the external and
internal worlds are changing every moment, for the
duration of that one moment they are real, and they
exist.

The Southrandhikas say that the external world can
only be guessed by us, since we only perceive the
internal world and we can only deduct that the
external world is a replica of the internal world.

Since both say that the world is real, even though for
a moment only, the Hinayanis are called Realists.

Yogacharas say that by the logic of transience
external world does not exist. Only the internal world
or our thoughts are real.

Madhyamikas go one step further and say by the same
logic of transience, the internal world or our
thoughts are also unreal ,since thoughts are also
changing every moment.. Theirs is the ultimate
nihilism.

 

 

Now I will give a sample of Sri Bhashya.

 

BS 2-2-30 Sarvada Anupapades cha.

Sarvada- In every way.

Anupapades cha-(Sunyavada) Is not tenable or
appropriate..

 

The Buddhists say thus.

 

Gnana, or thought and external world does not exist
This non-existence is the? ?reality?    

If an object exists, there must be a cause. For the
pot to exist clay is the cause.

The problem is, we cannot deduct the cause for
anything.   Because we are not able to see anything
created from another thing. Even clay has to be
kneaded etc for becoming the pot and hence how can we
say for sure, that the  pot is created by clay. So we
say that if there is an object we cannot say for sure
that it has been created from another existing object

 

>From  non existence no existing thing can be created.
Out of nothing can anything come?( like in  a Sai baba
trick!) Clay gets completely destroyed when pot is
made. When clay gets destroyed there is nothing left .
or only nothing is left. So pot cannot be created out
of nothing. So we say the pot does not exist.

 

There is a third possibility. From pot itself pot can
come. But this is no creation.

 

 We have proved that an existing thing cannot be
created from another existing thing or a non existing
thing In other words nothing can  exist!( Do you
follow this logic? Buddha must have had a very sharp
mind indeed)

 

Ramanuja says in reply thus

 

What do you say? Do you say things exist? Or Doyou say
things don?t exist ? or do you say they exist and
don?t exist ? None of the three assumptions will lead
to Sunyavada.

 

If you say things exist.. We have already proved that
existence and non existence is  the knowledge or
gnanam of status change. We see a pot and after
someone removes the pot or it gets destroyed to become
pieces, we don?t see the pot - this is a mere status
change. So how can you say that nothing exists?
Sunyavada fails.

 

If by means of some logic or Pramana, you want to
prove that everything is Sunyam, then since that logic
or Pramana is also included in the statement that
every thing is Sunya,  you can never prove your theory
of Sunyavada.

 

Are you confused to such a degree that you wish I
stop? I stop here.

Affly,

Appa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 






>From: arvind <rwind_raj@xxxxxxxxx> 
>Reply-To: rwind_raj@xxxxxxxxx 
>To: "rajagop_s@xxxxxxxxxxx" <rajagop_s@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
>Subject: punyajanam pics 
>Date: 14 Aug 2004 22:21:09 -0700 
> 
>punyajanam pics 
>If you did not see the full album please click here 
>http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rwind_raj/album?.tok=phrmZlBB46hp4Qsm&.dir=/4899&.src=ph






                
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