Dear Bhagavatas, An interesting email from my father i wanted to share with all. Adiyen Ramanuja dasan Aravindan ****************************************** In the latest issues of Kumudam Bhakti, we are translating Brahma sutras which deal with Buddhism. As you may know the second chapter of BS is called Avirodha Adhyaya and the sutras therein argue how other philosophies like Lokayata, Jaina, Sankya, Yoga Nyaya,,Vaishshika, Pasupatha are not supported by the Vedas .I thought you will like the arguments of BS against Buddhism as I found them a delight to my rational mind and hence this letter. First I will give the English translation of what we have written as introduction to the Adhikaranam dealing with Buddhism and then I will try to give you a translation of Sri Bhashya to give you a sample of the great intellect of Sri Ramanuja. Let us understand the essentials of Buddhism as an introduction to the Sutras that follow. Buddhism is divided into two main branches, Mahayana(great Path) and Hinayana(lower path) Hinayana has again two branches called Vaibhashika and Southrandhika. Mahayana is divided into Yogachara or Vignanavada and Madhyamika. Two thousand five hundred years ago(circa BC 563-483)lived Gautama Buddha one of the outstanding thinkers of mankind. His life history is fairly known to all of us. What he realised as the fundamental truth is this. In the universe every thing is changing every moment. Even the rocks and mountains change, slowly but surely. There in nothing that does not change. So, anything that changes cannot be true, meaning permanent What is true is change and not objects of change. So nothing exists.(if you slice every moment into infinite parts and say that in every one of those parts things change, you will realise this) This Sunya philosophy (nihilism) based on Khana Bhanga Nyayam, can be translated in English as under. Everything is changing and nothing is constantly existing. Since nothing has constant existence, it follows that nothing is real, or, only Nothing is real. Thus, nothing in fact exists. On the basis of the above principle of transience, Buddhists are called Sunyavadhis or Kshanikas. Let us now see the differences among the four branches. The external world of objects, thro our senses, becomes our internal world How can we say that our internal world is the exact replica of the external world?. Our senses may alter the external world and present to us an internal world, which may be totally different from the external world. Also we have said that every thing changes every moment . So both the external and internal worlds are changing, moment to moment. The Vaibhashikas say that though the external and internal worlds are changing every moment, for the duration of that one moment they are real, and they exist. The Southrandhikas say that the external world can only be guessed by us, since we only perceive the internal world and we can only deduct that the external world is a replica of the internal world. Since both say that the world is real, even though for a moment only, the Hinayanis are called Realists. Yogacharas say that by the logic of transience external world does not exist. Only the internal world or our thoughts are real. Madhyamikas go one step further and say by the same logic of transience, the internal world or our thoughts are also unreal ,since thoughts are also changing every moment.. Theirs is the ultimate nihilism. Now I will give a sample of Sri Bhashya. BS 2-2-30 Sarvada Anupapades cha. Sarvada- In every way. Anupapades cha-(Sunyavada) Is not tenable or appropriate.. The Buddhists say thus. Gnana, or thought and external world does not exist This non-existence is the? ?reality? If an object exists, there must be a cause. For the pot to exist clay is the cause. The problem is, we cannot deduct the cause for anything. Because we are not able to see anything created from another thing. Even clay has to be kneaded etc for becoming the pot and hence how can we say for sure, that the pot is created by clay. So we say that if there is an object we cannot say for sure that it has been created from another existing object >From non existence no existing thing can be created. Out of nothing can anything come?( like in a Sai baba trick!) Clay gets completely destroyed when pot is made. When clay gets destroyed there is nothing left . or only nothing is left. So pot cannot be created out of nothing. So we say the pot does not exist. There is a third possibility. From pot itself pot can come. But this is no creation. We have proved that an existing thing cannot be created from another existing thing or a non existing thing In other words nothing can exist!( Do you follow this logic? Buddha must have had a very sharp mind indeed) Ramanuja says in reply thus What do you say? Do you say things exist? Or Doyou say things don?t exist ? or do you say they exist and don?t exist ? None of the three assumptions will lead to Sunyavada. If you say things exist.. We have already proved that existence and non existence is the knowledge or gnanam of status change. We see a pot and after someone removes the pot or it gets destroyed to become pieces, we don?t see the pot - this is a mere status change. So how can you say that nothing exists? Sunyavada fails. If by means of some logic or Pramana, you want to prove that everything is Sunyam, then since that logic or Pramana is also included in the statement that every thing is Sunya, you can never prove your theory of Sunyavada. Are you confused to such a degree that you wish I stop? I stop here. Affly, Appa. >From: arvind <rwind_raj@xxxxxxxxx> >Reply-To: rwind_raj@xxxxxxxxx >To: "rajagop_s@xxxxxxxxxxx" <rajagop_s@xxxxxxxxxxx> >Subject: punyajanam pics >Date: 14 Aug 2004 22:21:09 -0700 > >punyajanam pics >If you did not see the full album please click here >http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rwind_raj/album?.tok=phrmZlBB46hp4Qsm&.dir=/4899&.src=ph __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! 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