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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00033 May 2002

 
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Sri Parthasarathi thunai
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Dear Sri Venkatesh,
I surely accept that we both have the same views. My
reply was not due to my misunderstanding of your
posting but I did want to simplify some matters and
make it clear. Any errors in my postings is due to my
lack of knowledge and any essence in it is due to the
krupai of Sri parthasarathi and our Acharyas.

Adiyen Ramanuja dasyai
Sumithra Varadarajan 




or_venkatesh <vinjamoorvenkat@xxxx> wrote:
> srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
> srImadh varavara munayE namaha
> 
> Dear Smt Sumitra,
> 
> I find that you have misunderstood my postings in
> some places. I will 
> try to clarify your questions. However, I also
> confess, I too 
> misunderstood your postings earlier. But your
> clarifications are 
> really well crafted and one should really agree with
> certain views of 
> yours here.
> 
> -----Quote 1 -----------
> It is not that he cannot shower his
> > blessings on all and grant moksha but his maya is
> not
> > explainable and hence he has chosen this method
> which
> > is clear from his own words. So there is no way
> his
> > kalyana gunas are affected due to this. 
> -----Unquote 1----------
> 
> This is precisely what I was trying to convey. If I
> rephrase what I 
> had written, the pretext is chosen by Him only. What
> I was saying is 
> that, since He is looking for a pretext and if He
> considered an act 
> of us as a pretext, it should not be considered as
> if that act has 
> earned the mOksham to us. In other words whether to
> look for pretext 
> itself or not is purely His wish. We cannot say that
> He WILL look for 
> a pretext and only then grant mOksham. Only when we
> try to say this, 
> his "nirankusa swAthanthriyam" gets affected.
> 
> ----Quote 2------
> why can't he play
> > like this see till the jeevatmas do something and
> then
> > grant them moksham. 
> -----Unquote 2----
> 
> Dear members, these words are to be embossed. Read
> through the 
> sentences carefully. This is the actual state of
> affairs with respect 
> to emberumAn's conduct. Yes, if He makes us to do
> something and then 
> considers it as a pretext to grant mOksham, it is
> only He who is 
> actually doing everything. No act on the part of
> jeevAtma is earning 
> Him the mOksha. Very true words.
> 
> To answer Smt Sumitra's earlier lines in this para,
> I agree 
> completely with your words that He need not give
> mOksha to all, empty 
> the prakruthi and then create the jeevAthmAs. He can
> also do the way 
> you have indicated above. I am only striving hard
> for every body to 
> know this and you have explained in just very very
> simple sentences.
> Hats off for this.
> 
> ----Quote 3 -----
> It is like when a kid is learning to write the
> > mother holds the hand and writes for the kid and
> then
> > says the kid has written well and gives marks,
> though
> > the actual writing was done by the mother only.
> > Similarly emperuman does everything but gives
> credit
> > to us.
> ---- Unquote 3 -----
> Yes, this is clearly what all our AchAryAs have
> said. So He only 
> gives credit to us for what ever HE has done through
> us and this is 
> again nothing else but His apAra kAruNyam and
> vAtsalyam and dayA. It 
> is completely unfair on our parts to say that we
> have done something 
> but we attribute it to Him in order to get rid of
> our ego.
> 
> ----Quote 4-----
> So Bhagavan will shower his krupai on us
> > irrespective of our actions but when we do
> saranagathi
> > and act according to his words he becomes more
> > attracted towards us. 
> ----Unquote 4-----
> 
> I thought I conveyed the same meaning. I did not say
> that He will not 
> grant mOksha to the second type of jeevAtmA who does
> some act out of 
> ignorance. I said that if we are to say that He
> grants mOksha only 
> based on a pretext, then the act due to ignorance
> will only take a 
> back seat, while the act due to knowledge only can
> be construed as a 
> proper pretext and if this is done, then, there will
> be a guNa hAni 
> on the part of emberumAn which means He has lost His
> swAthanthryam. I 
> too have the same opinion as you in that He grants
> mOksham to 
> everyone or anyone and it is purely as per His wish.
> However, having 
> noted that there is no difference of view I think we
> can agree to 
> agree on this aspect.
> 
> I am sure I have no problem with your other
> interpretations. Hope I 
> too have clarified my stance on this.
> 
> AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
> adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
> Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
> 
> 


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