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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00083 May 2003

 
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Sri:
Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:
Dear Soundar,
I'm sure that Sri Parthasarathy iyengar would give you a 
reply as and when time permits him. In the meantime,I thought I 
will try to address some of your questions! I reserve the detailed 
one for tomorrow as I don't have AH right with me(wrt partial krpa).
Also define what you mean by freewill? Do you mean that you can do 
ANYTHING and EVERYTHING without any external help???

> Does that mean one can perform even sinful actions, and assume 
> that lord is the doer of that action?? What exactly does "duty" 
> mean, then?? Are we to assume that every action that we do (be it
> good actions or sinful reactions) is done by the Lord Himself?? 
> Then, won't it be an excuse for sinners to do whatever they want
> to do??

when you say that "one can perform even sinful actions" you are under 
the delusion that "you are the body". Refer to BG 3:27. 

prakrthE: kriyamANAni guNai: karmANi sarvasha: |
ahankAra vimUDAthmA karthA(a)ham ithi manyathE ||

Whatever actions that the jIvAtma performs is under the "influence of 
and in association with the guNAs/senses". But the "unrealised soul" 
thinks that "he is the doer". This doesn't mean that the doership 
vests in guNAs! If you think so,it will be fatal. So,the doership 
belongs to the individual but the agency/action of the individual is 
dependent on the Lord. 

> Swamin, so by the preceding statements and also the above
> statement, does your kind self agree that the Atma does have
> freewill??

What happens to the jIvAtma in a "state of coma"? What happens to its 
consciousness??? Think over it in connection with freewill and write 
in your next post.

The individual soul,as knower(j~nAthA),doer(karthA)and enjoyer
(bhOkthA),possesses a consciousness,which expresses itself in states 
like thinking(j~nAna),desiring etc. This consciousness is dependent 
on the Lord! When the consciousness is lost,there is NO ACTION! Do 
people in the state of coma realize/recognize others and do their 
routines(be it mundane/spiritual)? I don't know if there are any 
cases of AcAryAs in coma and what happened to their spiritual level 
even in that state. But I have heard(and read)that one ISKCON devotee 
went into coma and those days she couldn't think of the Lord KrShNA. 
Why?

> If Arjuna, even after listening to the truth from none other than
> God himself is still lamenting for the loss of his son, does that
> mean that Perumal had not completely showered his Nirhetuka Kripai
> on Arjuna?? Meaning, how can any Mumukshu (or even an ordinary
> soul), even after getting Perumaal's Nirhetuka Kripai, still lament
> for material losses??

KrShNA's AcArya was Sandipini,who knowing that KrShNA is the Lord 
sought the Lord for alpa/cheap puruShArTham(he asked the Lord to 
revive his dead son!). There is a AcAryA-sishya lakshaNam and 
something is lacking here. The Lord was disappointed by the AcAryA.
Just like He chose Sandipini as His AcArya,He chose Arjuna to impart 
the knowledge to all. 

> Did Arjuna finally COMPLETELY surrender to the Lord (Prapatti)?? 
> If so, why did he lament for his son's death?? One can assume that
> the state of Prapatti is not perfect, am I correct?? On the other
> hand, if Arjuna did not surrender completely, what is the use of 
> Perumaal's Nirhetuka Kripa on Arjuna, and can there be "partial
> Krupa"??

Arjuna was not a mumukshu/prapanna! He didn't obey 18:66 to the core! 
AcArya(KrShNA),out of unconditional grace bestowed the supreme 
knowledge on the disciple/Arjuna. Now let's see what our Sri PiLLai 
lOkAcArya says in SVB. The last/fourth prakaraNam of SVB is very 
beautiful and highlights the greatness of the AcAryA as the means and 
the end. You can read the entire prakaraNam(jewel). 

SVB 428: AcAryan iruvarkkum upakArakan.
SVB 429: Ishvaranukku(lord) sheShavasthuvai(jIvAtma) upakariththAn; 
cEthananukku(jIvAtma) shEShiyai(lord) upakariththAn.
SVB 430: Ishvaran thAnum AcAryathvaththai Asai pattirukkum.

The AcArya is the common benefactor benefitting alike the Lord/Master 
and the Subject/servant. The subject,who was all along straying away 
from and evading the grip of the Lord,despite His herculean tasks to 
redeem teh former,is restored to Him by the AcArya duly chastened and 
properly equipped fo rthe final rapport between the two. It is no 
wonder that the Lord coveted the role of the AcArya and took it up 
Himself. 

> One can assume that the state of Prapatti is not perfect, am I 
> correct?? 

Prapatti is a mental realization that the Lord is the upAyam/Means 
and the upEyam/End. Realization is perfect only but who have seen the 
God? So what is the guarantee that the Lord will redeem us and hence 
a prapanna might undergo a dilemma thinking about God,being the Judge 
of karma on one side and His unconditional grace on the other side. 
Read the foll cUrNikai:

SVB 433: Ishvara sambanDham banDha mOkshangkaL iraNdukkum podhuvA 
irukkum. AcArya sambanDham mOkshaththukkE hEthuvA irukkum.

Our relation/bond with the Lord can operate in two ways(two-way 
traffic)based on His "modus operandi" throwing us back again into 
samsAra based on karmas or granting us mOksha which is based on His 
voluntary grace. On the other hand,our link with the AcArya is a one-
way traffic leading us to the final goal, salvation. AcArya is full 
of grace ONLY! That is why repayment to AcArya is IMPOSSIBLE because 
there are NO two Ishvaras and Four vibhUthis! So,seeking refuge at 
AcAryA's(means) feet is the ONLY remedy and the exclusive service to 
the AcArya is the goal(carama parva niShTa)

SVB 437: AcArya sambanDham kulaiyAdhE kidandhAl j~nAna bhakthi 
vairAgyangkaL uNdAkkik koLLalAm; AcArya sambanDham kulaindhAl avai 
uNdAnAlum prayOjanam illai.

If contact with AcArya is duly fostered and kept in tact,then it will 
automatically generate in us,spiritual knowledge,devotion to God and 
the Godly(devotees) and detachment from worldly pleasures. The 
presence of all these qualities is of no avail to a person,who, due 
to his perversity,lost the contact with the AcArya.

SVB 443: svAbhimAnaththAlE Ishvara abhimAnaththaik kulaiththu koNda 
ivanukku,AcArya abhimAnam ozhiya gathi illai enRu PiLLai(Sri Vadakku 
Tiru VIdhi PiLLai,father of Sri PiLLai lOkAcArya) palakAlum aruLic 
seiyyak kEttirukkaiyAy irukkum.

Sri Vadakku Tiru VIdhi PiLLai,an ardent disciple of the famous Sri 
NampiLLai,used to cite very often Sri NampiLLai's words that there is 
absolutely no salvation for the Subject,lost for long, in selfness 
and selfishness which destroy love for God,except the AcAryA's 
condescending love. 

Rest continued..

AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam
NC Nappinnai






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