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SriRangaSri List Archive: Message 00031 Feb 2002

 
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Dear Mr Varadhan
I endorse Mr Haris statement.Kindly give
ur intellectual reply
Regards
Adiyen 
Jayaraman.


--- "M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari"
<mshari@xxxx> wrote:
> Dear SrI Varadhan,
> 
> You wrote:
> >The following is not accurate
> ...
> > The misleading part is that the present day 
> > "bharanyAsam" is looked upon as a guarantee,
> whereas
> > both the above AchAryAs surrendered to the Lord
> > without any expectation of any guarantees.
> 
> I request you to kindly let me know the pramANAm for
> you
> to call bharanyAsam as a present day development.
> First of all,
> may I request you to kindly tell me your
> comprehension of the
> term "bharanyAsam" in SrI VaishNavam? What is the
> present
> day "bharanyAsam"?
> 
> You wrote:
> > The other inaccuracy is that there is no credible
> > record of any AchAryA performing surrender for
> > the purpose of attaining mOksha, nor is there any
> > credible evidence to interpret their position as
> > "bharanyAsam/surrender ==> mOksha".
> 
> This seems to be your personal opinion. I request
> you to kindly let me know what grantams of
> pUrvAchAryas
> you have studied in this context in traditional
> kAlashEpams
> at the feet of ubhaya vEdAnta vidwAns. I will be
> grateful 
> if you share with me about the details of your
> studies 
> regarding prastAna trayam.
> 
> You wrote:
> > svAmi piLLai lOkAchAryA does deal with this in
> > srIvacanabhUsaNa and other granthAs. And the
> message
> > is pretty clear that there can be no linkage
> between
> > "our" act of surrendering and the "Lord's" mercy
> > acting on us.
> 
> Could you please explain the following in the
> context of
> your above words?
> 1. Why then there should be vidhi & nishEda vidhi
> vAkyams
> in SAstra?
> 2. Why there are upAsanas prescribed in upanishads?
> 3. Why is prapatti prescribed to be done in SAstra?
> 4. If there is no linkage between "so called" "our"
> act
> (of surrendering) and the "Lord's" mercy acting on
> us,
> then why "few" gets HIS mercy and why "others" are
> in
> samsAram? If it is mere "nirhEtuka krupA", then is
> the
> Lord partial? Is he not having krupA? What is then
> krupA?
> What is His vAtsalyam?
> 4. Is your same logic holding good even if "so
> called" "our"
> act of nishidhda-karmAnushTAnam has no linkage with
> Lord's
> nigraha sankalpam?
> 5. Please let me know your ideas about the
> pAratantriyam of jeevan,
> the swAtantriyam of Lord , sAtvika-tyAgam, Jeeva's
> pratama pravruti,
> Lord's mercy etc?
> 6. Please let me know the differences between
> sAdhyOpAyam and
> sidhdOpAyam.
> 
> You wrote:
> > His own discretion in sanctioning anything He 
> > likes. We need not do anything to attain that. All
> > that we need to know how to be a "man" in this 
> > world. Take Lord Sri Rama as an example. He lived 
> > like a real man, a Model Man, exemplifying His 
> > whole life. And His life says ' if you live like 
> > a real man, you will be worshiped here in this
> world 
> > and nether worlds, as well.
> 
> Well. Is it possible for an ordinary man to live
> like SrI rAma?
> Should one attempt to live like that? If no action
> of jeeva
> has linkage to Lord's mercy, what is meaning of
> "attempting"
> to live like this or anything? Ok. If one attempts
> to live or lives like
> SrI rAma, then will the Lord show mercy on that
> Jeeva? If so,
> then is it not contradicting your earlier statement?
> 
> If there is an point that mere non-performance
> (nivruthi) of SAdhyOpAyam 
> (here bhakti as told in upanishads) is prapatti and
> if one should not
> do anything to get the mercy of the Lord, then is it
> not possible to
> consider this non-performance as reason (from
> jeeva's side) to
> be the cause for Lord's mercy? Then are these
> consistent? Is there
> a nishEda vidhi in SAstra like "do not do bhakti;", 
> "do not do bharanyAsam"? Is there any SAstra
> pramANam to
> brand the performance of sAdyOpAyam
> (bhakti/bharanyAsam)
> as jeeva-swarUpa-virudhdam (against jeeva's
> swarUpam)?
> 
> You wrote:
> > Please do not interpre the above as a complete 
> > licence to do whatver one wants to do etc. The key
> > point is that there can be no causal linkage
> between
> > any of our actions and the Lord's mercy taking
> place.
> 
> Well, if you do not allow us to consider this as
> complete
> license, then upto what limit you give us license?
> What is
> the reason behind that "lesser-limit" license if at
> all there
> is one? Are you merely writing these things based on
> anumAnams?
> Even if one lives as per standards (what ever it may
> be), 
> if his actions and the Lord's mercy have no linkage,
> then
> what benefit he gets? If there is some benefit, then
> Lord's mercy
> gets linked with jeevan's action. If there are no
> benefits (as you
> say there is no linkage between jeevan's actions and
> Lord's mercy)
> then what is the purpose of your "licensed" life?
> What difference it 
> makes if one leads a chAruvAka life or something
> else? Please
> explain these from a layman point of view. 
> 
> Please substantiate your points (point to point)
> with valid
> authentic pramANAms that sAdhyOpAya-anushTAnam
> (bhakthi & bharanyAsam) 
> must not be done to get Lord's mercy. Please
> substantiate your points with
> valid authentic pramANAms that "there can be no
> causal linkage between
> any of our actions and the Lord's mercy taking
> place."
> Before that, please tell me your comprehension
> of upAsana (bhakti) and bharanyAsam (sAnga
> prapadanam).
> 
> > Having said that, if one wants to lead a good
> life,
> > there are numerous things prescribed by our
> > AchAryAs from the sAstrAs, which one ought to
> follow.
> 
> The same question still remains. I do not think that
> you will give a
> mere-emotional reply. I will be grateful if you
> give me an intellectual 
> reply with appropriate mixture of emotions in it. I
> am sure that on 
> reading my response, you would have clearly
> comprehended my lack of
> knowledge in these subjects. Please pardon me for my
> ignorance.
> Expecting your knowledgeable reply. 
> 
> Thanks & Regards
> adiyEn,
> M.S.HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari@xxxx)
> 
> 
> 


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