Dear Mr Varadhan I endorse Mr Haris statement.Kindly give ur intellectual reply Regards Adiyen Jayaraman. --- "M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari" <mshari@xxxx> wrote: > Dear SrI Varadhan, > > You wrote: > >The following is not accurate > ... > > The misleading part is that the present day > > "bharanyAsam" is looked upon as a guarantee, > whereas > > both the above AchAryAs surrendered to the Lord > > without any expectation of any guarantees. > > I request you to kindly let me know the pramANAm for > you > to call bharanyAsam as a present day development. > First of all, > may I request you to kindly tell me your > comprehension of the > term "bharanyAsam" in SrI VaishNavam? What is the > present > day "bharanyAsam"? > > You wrote: > > The other inaccuracy is that there is no credible > > record of any AchAryA performing surrender for > > the purpose of attaining mOksha, nor is there any > > credible evidence to interpret their position as > > "bharanyAsam/surrender ==> mOksha". > > This seems to be your personal opinion. I request > you to kindly let me know what grantams of > pUrvAchAryas > you have studied in this context in traditional > kAlashEpams > at the feet of ubhaya vEdAnta vidwAns. I will be > grateful > if you share with me about the details of your > studies > regarding prastAna trayam. > > You wrote: > > svAmi piLLai lOkAchAryA does deal with this in > > srIvacanabhUsaNa and other granthAs. And the > message > > is pretty clear that there can be no linkage > between > > "our" act of surrendering and the "Lord's" mercy > > acting on us. > > Could you please explain the following in the > context of > your above words? > 1. Why then there should be vidhi & nishEda vidhi > vAkyams > in SAstra? > 2. Why there are upAsanas prescribed in upanishads? > 3. Why is prapatti prescribed to be done in SAstra? > 4. If there is no linkage between "so called" "our" > act > (of surrendering) and the "Lord's" mercy acting on > us, > then why "few" gets HIS mercy and why "others" are > in > samsAram? If it is mere "nirhEtuka krupA", then is > the > Lord partial? Is he not having krupA? What is then > krupA? > What is His vAtsalyam? > 4. Is your same logic holding good even if "so > called" "our" > act of nishidhda-karmAnushTAnam has no linkage with > Lord's > nigraha sankalpam? > 5. Please let me know your ideas about the > pAratantriyam of jeevan, > the swAtantriyam of Lord , sAtvika-tyAgam, Jeeva's > pratama pravruti, > Lord's mercy etc? > 6. Please let me know the differences between > sAdhyOpAyam and > sidhdOpAyam. > > You wrote: > > His own discretion in sanctioning anything He > > likes. We need not do anything to attain that. All > > that we need to know how to be a "man" in this > > world. Take Lord Sri Rama as an example. He lived > > like a real man, a Model Man, exemplifying His > > whole life. And His life says ' if you live like > > a real man, you will be worshiped here in this > world > > and nether worlds, as well. > > Well. Is it possible for an ordinary man to live > like SrI rAma? > Should one attempt to live like that? If no action > of jeeva > has linkage to Lord's mercy, what is meaning of > "attempting" > to live like this or anything? Ok. If one attempts > to live or lives like > SrI rAma, then will the Lord show mercy on that > Jeeva? If so, > then is it not contradicting your earlier statement? > > If there is an point that mere non-performance > (nivruthi) of SAdhyOpAyam > (here bhakti as told in upanishads) is prapatti and > if one should not > do anything to get the mercy of the Lord, then is it > not possible to > consider this non-performance as reason (from > jeeva's side) to > be the cause for Lord's mercy? Then are these > consistent? Is there > a nishEda vidhi in SAstra like "do not do bhakti;", > "do not do bharanyAsam"? Is there any SAstra > pramANam to > brand the performance of sAdyOpAyam > (bhakti/bharanyAsam) > as jeeva-swarUpa-virudhdam (against jeeva's > swarUpam)? > > You wrote: > > Please do not interpre the above as a complete > > licence to do whatver one wants to do etc. The key > > point is that there can be no causal linkage > between > > any of our actions and the Lord's mercy taking > place. > > Well, if you do not allow us to consider this as > complete > license, then upto what limit you give us license? > What is > the reason behind that "lesser-limit" license if at > all there > is one? Are you merely writing these things based on > anumAnams? > Even if one lives as per standards (what ever it may > be), > if his actions and the Lord's mercy have no linkage, > then > what benefit he gets? If there is some benefit, then > Lord's mercy > gets linked with jeevan's action. If there are no > benefits (as you > say there is no linkage between jeevan's actions and > Lord's mercy) > then what is the purpose of your "licensed" life? > What difference it > makes if one leads a chAruvAka life or something > else? Please > explain these from a layman point of view. > > Please substantiate your points (point to point) > with valid > authentic pramANAms that sAdhyOpAya-anushTAnam > (bhakthi & bharanyAsam) > must not be done to get Lord's mercy. Please > substantiate your points with > valid authentic pramANAms that "there can be no > causal linkage between > any of our actions and the Lord's mercy taking > place." > Before that, please tell me your comprehension > of upAsana (bhakti) and bharanyAsam (sAnga > prapadanam). > > > Having said that, if one wants to lead a good > life, > > there are numerous things prescribed by our > > AchAryAs from the sAstrAs, which one ought to > follow. > > The same question still remains. I do not think that > you will give a > mere-emotional reply. I will be grateful if you > give me an intellectual > reply with appropriate mixture of emotions in it. I > am sure that on > reading my response, you would have clearly > comprehended my lack of > knowledge in these subjects. Please pardon me for my > ignorance. > Expecting your knowledgeable reply. > > Thanks & Regards > adiyEn, > M.S.HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari@xxxx) > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com
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