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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Jan 11, 2007 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [SriRangaSri] Re: Re:A question of age.
To: Vijayaraghavan Chakravarthy <vijayaraghavan_s@xxxxxxxxxxx>


SrI:

Pranams.
Read your response.

Interestingly, the Ramayan contains many hidden purports in the
mention of years etc, which enhance our understanding of the times and
views expressed by the Kavi  from different angles. These have been
touched upon by me in my mails in 2005. Thought you would be
interested to read them and therfore sending the links as also one of
the mails sent then.

The 4 mails dealing with the issues under discussion can be read in
the following
messages of Oppiliappan list.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/message/7503  (4th mail of the series)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/message/7502 (5th mail)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/message/7506  (6th mail)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/message/7561 (conclusion)
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(note:- The following is based on the calculation of yugas at polar
cycle of 28,000 years of 14,000  years each at ascending and
descending levels, the details of the derivation  are contained in the
links mentioned above.)

The life span of people in different yugas are said to run in
thousands of years.

In his description  of Jambhoo dweepa , Sanjaya says that people of
Satya yuga lived for 4000 years, those of Thretha yuga for 3000 years
and  those of Dwapara yuga for 2000 thousand. But while talking about
people of Kali yuga, he gives  a mixed outlook. He says that there is
no limit for the life span for the people of Kali yuga. Some are born
dead and some die after birth. And there are those born to live with
'maha satvam' and great valour. They multiply in hundreds and
thousands.



This description was given by Sanjaya after he looks at distant lands
at distant time periods with Doora dhrushti.



We find here the 4:3:2 ratio with reference to the first 3 yugas and a
not-too-clear vision of Kali yuga. By implication and continuity of
the previous yugas, the life span in Kali yuga must be 1000 years.
This makes the calculation complete as 4:3:2:1.



But going by what he says about progeny, we seem to get a clue. It is
impossible for a human being to live for 1000s of years. It might be
possible in a different universe with people formed of different
cellular formations. But the kind of evolution of species in this
earth rule out such existence. Since progeny is being talked about
Kali people, it may be assumed that any particular race or generation
of people will last for so many number of years. In Kali yuga there is
no certainty that all people will live 1000 years long by way of their
progeny. (A man is born as his son, so goes a dictum in our texts).
The lineage might get cut short, is the implication.



Another way to look at it is that  the name and fame of a person in
the respective yugas will live on for so many thousands of years.
Raama's story seem to imply this. In his concluding words in the
Pattabhishka chapter, Valmiki speaks of Raama ruling the world for
11,000 years. In the beginning too, Narada while narrating the story
of Raama to Valmiki says like this.



" dasha varSa sahasraaNi dasha varSa shataani ca |
raamo raajyam upaasitvaa brahma lokam prayaasyati || " (1-1-97)

97. dasha+varSa+sahasraaNi= ten, years, thousand;
dasa+varsha+sataani+ca= ten, years, hundred, also; raamaH= Rama;
raajyam+upaasitvaa= kingdom, on reverencing; brahma+
lokam+gamishhyati= Brahma's abode, voyages.

"On reverencing the kingdom for ten thousand years plus another one
thousand years, [i.e. for a total of eleven thousand years,] Rama
voyages to the abode of Brahma... [1-1-97]

Comment: In rama raajyam upaasitvaa... the word used is upaasana is
not ruling by sceptre but 'reverentially idolised the kingdom...' as
one would regard or treat his personal god with reverence. Rama thus
reverenced his kingdom as a devotee of his subjects and this is the
concept of raama raajya.





The commentary above puts the entire issue in a different perspective!!

Raama established Raama rajyam for 10,000 + 1000 years after which He
left for His Abode. Raama rajyam stands for Raama's ideals in
different spheres of life and governance. Even at the time of Vali
vadam it is said that since the entire earth was under Ikshvahu hold,
Raama was bound to establish its dharma by slaying Vaali. It is well
known that the entire land mass was not under Ikshvahu dynasty. The
implication was that the dharma, the ideals and values systems which
the dynasty stood for , was followed throughout  the land mass.



A similar prevalence of Raama's ideals is bound to exist till 4098 AD.
Perhaps after that, there might take place  a further deterioration.
It is said at many places in the texts that Raama's story will live as
long as Himalayas and the Ganga live. Perhaps the Ganga might vanish
at or around 4098 AD like how the river Saraswathi of the Vedic age
vanished. (There is proof now that this river did indeed exist and was
the hub of growth of Vedic civilisation, perhaps in Satya yuga). The
vanishing of the Ganga is possible since Bhagirathan is supposed to
bring her down in Satya yuga, in the next cycle. (I am not sure about
the time period). Perhaps the ganga will dry up in Thretha yuga of the
night duration of the mini yuga and might get enclosed at higher
levels in the Himalayas..



The strong indicators for believing that the life span in those days
could not have been in thousands but within or around a hundred are as
follows:



Ø      Brahma devan is said to live for 100 years in his time scale.
Therefore 100 is the standard year duration for longevity. Since man
is at a  micro cosmic scale  of the Cosmic god Brahma, and since man's
life is shaped by the influence of each of the nine planets which runs
into a total period of 120 years as calculated by sage Parashara in
the Vedas and Ithihasas, this span is roughly around 100 years.



Ø      The blessings given by elders when one prostrates  is of Vedic
origin (of satya yuga). It  is ("Shatamaanam bhavathi shataayu:
purusha:…") to invoke 100 years of life for the one so blessed. This
blessing is repeated in several places in the Upanishads too.



Ø      When one performs the daily midday supplication, the individual
prays to the sun when he is in full bloom that he may be blessed to
see him for a full life of nearly 100 years. ("PashyEma sharada:
shatham… jIvEma sharada: shatham.. etc ) This prayer also has  its
origin in Vedic yuga.



Ø      We can quote an example from Ramayana itself. In Sundhara
khandam (sargam 34) On seeing that Raama dhoothan has come to redeem
her distress, Sita says, " yethi jivantha aanandham naram
varshashathadhabhi." (If only a person were to live for a 100 years,
he would sure have 'aanandham' sometime even after a 100 years.) Here
'if only  a person lives for a 100 years ' make it clear that the
average life span of a person in Thretha yuga had not been in 1000s of
years.



Ø      But that  it has been said so, can be understood in the way it
has to be, if we look into an episode involving sages Vasishta and
Vishwamithra. They once had an argument regarding which is superior -
sat-sangam or years of tapas. Vasishta said it was sat-sangam while
Vishwamithra said it was years of tapas or meditation. They went to
meet Adhisesha who was carrying the World on his shoulder, to settle
this issue. He said how  he could solve this issue when he was
carrying a heavy burden. For this, Vishwamithra said that he would
give 16,000 years of his tapas to support the weight and did give. But
the world could not be held aloft. Vasishta gave a second of satsangam
and Adhisesha was relieved of the weight. But since Adhisesah
continued to remain quiet, Vishwamithra asked impatiently why he was
not giving his solution, for which sesha replied that reply was
already given. While a second of sat-sangam was able to hold the
world, 16,000 years of tapas could not!



We have our lessons in this. Counting of years rarely matter. It is
about what you gather by being in the company of good people (this
includes all that imparts goodness, including knowledge acquired by
reading etc). What one does in a 100 year life span must be worthy of
lasting for 1000s of years. That is what happened to people (sages) of
Staya yuga.



At another level, what we gain in an entire life time may be had in
few years' satsangam. By sat sangam, we, in this age of Kali may gain
values and knowledge that can otherwise be got in 1000 years. Such is
the greatness of satsangam. Such is the implication of living for
long!



But the true nature of  this is something which even Maharishis may
not have known. Bhagawan conveys this in BG 10-2 – " Neither the host
of gods nor the great seers know my Prabhavam." This word, prabhavam,
connotes various meanings at various levels but suffice it to say that
the way of His creation at the bottom-most layer of yuga
classification is something that is bound to be as ever – a mystery.

----------------------------------------------
with regards,
jayasree saranathan

On 1/11/07, Vijayaraghavan Chakravarthy <vijayaraghavan_s@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear Shri Sadagopan Swami:
>
> I believe in Lord Rama.  He is everything to us.  However, I do not see that
> we can justify any of the numbers in the Vaalmeeki Ramayanam.  For eg.:
> Dasaratha lived for 60000 years.  In each direction "pala aayiram kotigal"
> Vaanaras were sent in search of Sita.   I have come to the conclusion that
> we should not justify or worry about these numbers as they are not central
> to Ramayana.  It is enough for me know that Rama & Ramayana are real
> eventhough many of the details are exaggerated or mystified.
>
> S. Vijayaraghavan
> Buffalo/NY
>
>
>
>
>
> >


 
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