Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer, Sri KS Tatachar on 11.1.2007 wrote on that 'dhasa sapta cha varshaani' slokam -- quote-- dasha sapta can also mean sapta dasha (70) or dasha saptams, 10 times 7 (70) [like trissapta of puruSHasUktam, which means 3 times 7=21]. Thus, it would be 70, perhaps kausalya's age. rAma, I have waited for 70 years with the hope that my grief will be redeemed after your birth. This is like telling I have waited for 90 years to see my son get nobel prize. dAsan K.S. tAtAchAr – unquote. Smt jayasree saranathan on jan 12 writes in the same context – quote -- My humble pranams. I have a small doubt. I have read your book on Purusha sookhtham and I understand the meaning of trissapta. It is three times seven. But in the context below 'dasha sapta cha varSHANI' why 'cha'? From my very little knowledge of sanskrit, I see it as dasha: saptha: cha, meaning ten and seven. What does ten and seven imply? Ten plus seven or ten times seven? I see a parallel to this Thiruchanda viruttham pasurams, where the addition is indicated by 'um' (ummai-th-thogai, the Tamil equivalent of sanskrit samaasam) and an absence of 'um' (cha) indicates multiplication. Kindly correct me and clarify. With humble pranams, jayasree. Since both are on same point of that word 'cha' [or ca as in dictionary] and its usage in conjunction with those two words dhasa and saptha, I deal that as below. First the meaning of that word cha from Monier Williams Sankrit English dictionary - *ca 2 *** *ca* ind. and, both, also, moreover, as well as (= ?, Lat. *que*, placed like these particles as an enclitic after the word which it connects with what precedes • when used with a personal pronoun this must appear in its fuller accented form (e.g. *táva ca máma ca* [not *te ca me ca*], 'both of thee and me'), when used after verbs the first of them is accented Pāṇ.<http://students.washington.edu/prem/mw/worksAuthorsAbbrs.html#Pāṇ;>8-1, 58 f • it connects whole sentences as well as parts of sentences • in RV. the double *ca* occurs more frequently than the single (e.g. *aháṃ ca tváṃ ca*, 'I and thou', viii, 62, 11) * * *• the double **ca** may also be used somewhat redundantly in class. Sanskṛit (e.g. **kva hariṇakānāṃ jīvitaṃ câtilolaṃ kva ca vajra-sārāḥ śarās te**, 'where is the frail existence, of fawns and where are thy adamantine arrows?' Śak. i, 10) * * * *• in later literature, however, the first **ca** is more usually omitted ( e.g. **ahaṃ tvaṃ ca**), and when more than two things are enumerated only one **ca** is often found (e.g. **tejasā yaśasā lakṣmyā sthityā ca parayā**, 'in glory, in fame, in beauty, and in high position' Nal. xii, 6) * • elsewhere, when more than two things are enumerated, *ca* is placed after some and omitted after others (e.g. *ṛṇa-dātā ca vaidyaś ca śrotriyo nadī*, 'the payer of a debt and a physician *and* a Brāhman *and* a river' Hit. i, 4, 55) • in Ved. and even in class. Sanskṛit [Mn. iii, 20 ; ix, 322 Hit.], when the double *ca* would generally be used, the second may occasionally be omitted (e.g. *indraś ca soma*, 'both Indra *and thou* Soma' RV.vii, 104, 25 • *durbhedyaś câśusaṃdheyaḥ*, 'both difficult to be divided *and* quickly united' Hit.i) • with lexicographers *ca* may imply a reference to certain other words which are not expressed (e.g. *kamaṇḍalau ca karakaḥ*, 'the word *karaka*has the meaning 'pitcher' and other meanings') • sometimes *ca* is = *eva*, even, indeed, certainly, just (e.g. *su-cintitaṃ câuṣadhaṃ na nāma-mātreṇa karoty arogam*, 'even a well-devised remedy does not cure a disease by its mere name' Hit. • *yāvanta eva te tāvāṃśca saḥ*, 'as great as they *were* just so great was he' Ragh.xii, 45) • occasionally *ca* is disjunctive, 'but', 'on the contrary', 'on the other hand', 'yet', 'nevertheless' (*varam ādyau na cântimaḥ*, 'better the two first but not the last' Hit.[Page 380, Column 2] • *śāntam idam āśrama-padaṃ sphurati ca bāhuḥ*, 'this hermitage is tranquil yet my arm throbs' Śak. i, 15) • *ca-ca*, though-yet Vikr. ii, 9 • *ca-na ca*, though - yet not Pat. • *ca* - *na tu* (vḷ. *nanu*), id., Mālav-. iv, 8 • *na ca* - *ca*, though not - yet Pat. • *ca* may be used for *vā*, 'either', 'or' (e.g. *iha câmutra vā*, 'either here or hereafter' Mn. xii, 89 • *strī vā pumān vā yac cânyat sattvam*, 'either a woman or a man or any other being' R.), and when a neg. particle is joined with *ca* the two may then be translated by 'neither', 'nor' • occasionally one *ca* or one *na* is omitted (e.g. *na ca paribhoktuṃ nâiva śaknomi hātum*, 'I am able neither to enjoy nor to abandon' Śak. v, 18 • *na pūrvâhṇe nā ca parâhṇe*, 'neither in the forenoon nor in the afternoon') • *ca-ca* may express immediate connection between two acts or their simultaneous occurrence (e.g. *mama ca muktaṃ tamasā mano manasijena dhanuṣi śaraś ca niveśitaḥ*, 'no sooner is my mind freed from darkness than a shaft is fixed on his bow by the heart-born god', vi, 8) • *ca* is sometimes = *cêd*, 'if' (cf. Pāṇ. 8-1, 30 • the verb is accented) RV. AV. MBh. Vikr. ii, 20 Bhartṛ. ii, 45 • *ca* may be used as an expletive (e.g. *anyaiś ca kratubhiś ca*, 'and with other sacrifices') • *ca* is often joined to an adv. like *eva*, *api*, *tathā*, *tathâiva*, &c., either with or without a neg. particle (e.g. *vairiṇaṃ nôpaseveta sahâyaṃ caiva vairiṇaḥ*, 'one ought not to serve either an enemy or the ally of an enemy' Mn. iv, 133) • ( See *eva*, *api*, &c.) For the meaning of *ca* after an interrogative See 2. *ká*, 2. *kathā́*, *kím*, *kvá*) ; [cf. ?, Lat. *que*, *pe* (in * nempe* &c.) ; Goth. *uh* ; Zd. *ca* ; Old Pers. *cā*.] -2 >From this, it is clear that dhasa saptha cha means dhasa and saptha – which means ten and seven = 17 -- if we use cha with meaning of 'and' ten, both, seven, = 17 which means both words are to be conjoined – ten and seven taken together = which means 17 ten, also seven, = 17 which again means add 7 to 10 and then take the total. Ten, moreover seven = 17 = which means 7 over and above 10 Ten as well as 7 = 17 And here it is NOT 'dhasa saptha', which means 10 times seven or seven times ten. To take that purusha sooktham slokam 'thris saptha samitha krithaa' – The slokam reads 'sapthaasyaasan paridhhaya: thrissaptha samitha kruthaa:' and then goes on to other context. So thris saptha means three times seven or seventimes three and not 3+7 =10 for we do not have that cha in the slokam. In raamaayaNam slokam that cha helps us to interpret as 10 + 7 = 17. Similarly there is 'ekO na vimsathi' is used for 19 – means - in a sum of 20 one is not there or there is one less, which in simple arithmetics it is 20-1=19. This is peculiarity of the language. Further it is also added in the dictionary that 2 cha-s are used to connect two things in rig vedham – like - raama cha lakshmana cha – to mean raama as well as lakshmaNa. But in later literature, only one cha is used – like - raama lakshmaNa cha - to mean raama and lakshmaNa. Perhaps now you can recollect in chamakam – [rudhram chamakam as generally it is said] how many cha are used to connect what all are desired. [Re article of sri sudarsan swamy of Kuwait – titled marrai nam kaamangal maarru]. Further this 'um' - ummaith thogai is also slowly disappearing and is replaced with 'maRRum' – to say tamilnadu and pondichery, it is stated nowadays 'tamilnadu marrum pondichery' and not 'tamilnadum pondicheriyum'. Trust the point is adequately clarified. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. -- Vasudevan MG [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SriRangaSri/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SriRangaSri/join (Yahoo! 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