Post 4 Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer and sukumar swamin, Sri Sukumar wrote in response to the post on types of dharma: -- Quote: The 3rd point is somewhat contradictory in as far as desire is concerned. You have briefed the procedure for attaining salvation and listed 'without desire for fruits' also one of them, but the very act of obtaining salvation presupposes that the 'desire for salvation' is obvious. In fact, dharma of meditation involving an urge to praise Lord is also a desire. Vedas (Mundaka Up) says 'sa yo ha vai tat paramam brahma veda brahmaiva bhavati' Whoever knows that Supreme Brahman becomes Brahman indeed. Attaining vaikunta is attaining Parabrahman himself there is no diff. between vaikunta (one of the namas of Vishnu in VSN) and Parabrahman. Are they? So is there any difference between the desire - to attain Vaikunta / Brahman - to praise Vaikunta/Brahman Is not the sadhaka following 3rd dharma, desires salvation is akin to desiring Vaikunta? Is not the sadhaka while praising Vaikunta is liberated from loukika thoughts / actions? The very act of praising, following 4th dharma presupposes that he is liberated from all materialistic dust at that very moment. Isn't so? If we bring about difference between vaikunta & vishnu then we can arrive at difference between 3rd and 4th dharmas. Regards sukumar -- Unquote: In deference to this, first we saw the difference between the naamaas 'vaikunThaaya nama:' and 'vishNavE nama:' as 'He is the remover of sins, and so He is called vaikunTha', and 'One who surrounds everything' respectively. So both are somewhat different when considered with their deep meaning. On the surface level both are same - vaikunTha and vishNu. Now taking point by point on what sukumar writes -- The 3rd point is somewhat contradictory in ---- an urge to praise Lord is also a desire. MGV: the third point - yes. Desire is a desire whether good or bad. But to what it leads has to be taken into account while analyzing the desire as to what is the cause and effect. Here comes that famous geethaa slokam "karmaNi eva adhikaarasthE maa palEshu kadhaachana" - desire to do work without desire for fruits of these works - do it as a duty - do it as a dharma. Duty is what one's dharma in 3rd stage - one's dharma in doing sandhya vandhanam also - as a simple duty without anticipating any fruits - without anticipating a fruit like long life as stated by bheeshma - for sandhya is also a yagnam - leads to realization on time, realization on knowledge - without aspiring for any fruits. That is the duty - dharmam - for this level of people. When third type dharmam is being done whether it is vaikunTha or vishNu - sins are automatically removed by his grace for he surrounds this dharma observer also - means the doer of dharma realizes vaikunTha and vishNu here and now. For others who are in first and second level or type as stated in post 1 - to make them do sandhya or any other dharma - an incentive is offered - hey you will have long life if you do - you will have material benefits etc - once the doing taste sets in - evolution takes place within - vaikunTha sets himself in - removes all sins due to which this realization is obstructed - then it becomes a yagna without desire for fruits. They reach third and fourth levels or do third and fourth types dharmam.. [I am just not touching the time scale aspect for this evolution - please study geethaa on that aspect of how much time and how much evolution - lord describes those aspects so beautifully] Fourth type - for those who are in that level - see what saint annamacharya says in his krithi on sandhyaa vandhanam -- Raagam saamantham Pallavi: sahaja vaishNava aachaara varthanula sahavaasamE maa sandhyaa || meaning: Living in the company of the Vaishnavas who live a life consistent with their nature [sree vaishNava dharmam] is my sandhyaa vandhanam. [MGV: please note the point saint says the very company is his sandhyaa - not even following or adopting himself into that fold or converting himself into that vaishNava dharmam to be a fit member] CharaNam 1: athisayamagu sree hari sankeerthana sathathambunu maa sandhyaa | mathi raamaanuja mathamE maakunu chathuratha merasina sandhyaa || meaning: Excelling in singing the praise of Sree hari always, is my sandhyaa. Accepting the religion of raamaanuja, is my clever, right, intelligent and wise sandhyaa. [MGV: is not clearly the fourth type of dharmam spelt here or identified by annamacharya - singing out of love? CharaNam 2 parama bhagavatha paadha sEvanayE saravi nenna maa sandhyaa | sirivaru mahimalu cheluvondhaga vEsaaraka vinuthE maa sandhyaa || meaning: Servitude to the feet of parama bhaagavathaas, is my sandhyaa. Untiring listening to the glory of the lover of Sri with pleasure, is my sandhyaa. [MGV: confirmation once more on the fourth type - that too with pleasure. Is it not?] CharaNam 3: mamthukekka thirumanthra paThanamE santhathamunu maa sandhyaa | kanthugurudu vEnkaTagiri raayani santharpaNamE maa sandhyaa || meaning: Studying thiru manthra always, is my sandhyaa. Completely satisfying the father of kaantha by offering to him (samyak tharpaNam) (kaantha is manmatha), the King of vEnkatagiri, is my sandhyaa. [MGV: 1. paThanam - studying or reading - just recall what paarvathi asks siva - kEna upaayEna laghuna paTyathE paNdithai: in vishNu sahasra naamam - similar paThanam. 2. here in that santharpaNamE - though my telugu expert and exponent gave the meaning as samyak tharpaNamE, I have a slight doubt and has this feeling. If this is santhathamu arpaNamE - 'offering always' - instead of santharpaNamE, it means better. Since the lyric is what is available and being sung also, I cannot but accept the above version - readers who are experts can comment.] Again since length of post puts a brake, we will see some more in next post. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. DISCLAIMER: This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION Yahoo! 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