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--- dileepan <dileepan@xxxx> wrote:
Once the jIvatma leaves
> the > body, the body cannot do any of those things. Thus, when we
say a > human being is living, we do not mean the human body is
living, but> > only the soul that is present in the body. The soul
is the one
> that > is "cetanam" not the body.> Similarly, a pot is another
body. The pot is not a living> (cetanam) > entity just as a human
body is not a living entity. Only the soul > present in the body is
cetanam, whether in the body of a pot or a > body of a human being. 
***********************

Granting everything explained above, it still largely leaves
unanswered the original questions posed by Sri.Narayanan at the
beginning of this very interesting thread of discussion triggered by
DadhipAndan's 'pot' viz. 

-- Is the body (the shell of 'acetanam'), insentient Matter, too
capable of aspiring to 'mOksham' no less than the jIva (the
indwelling spirit of 'cetanam')? 

>From the detailed explanations given, the 'jIva' exists independently
of the 'sarIra'. It survives the latter's extinction. But the reverse
is not true. The 'sarira' does not survive after the 'jIvA' exits
from it... until and unless another 'jIva' happens to come by and
uses it to clothe itself. The 'sarira' really serves no purpose other
than as a "shell", as explained. ("AdAram/AdEyam" principle). Hence,
while 'cetanam' exists to seek its ultimate purpose in 'mOksha',
'acetanam' exists merely to subserve the interest of the 'cetanam'.
Unlike the 'cetanam', the 'acetanam' is incapable of independently
aspiring to the state of 'mOksha'. This is because while 'jIva' is IN
the 'sarira', it is not OF the 'sarira'. And 'sarira', on the other
hand, is neither "in" nor "of" the 'jIva'. The "jiva" is "jiva"; the
'jada' is 'jada' and the never the twain shall meet. In which case,
the question of 'mOkshA' for the 'sarira' a.k.a the 'acetanam' or
'jada' does not arise at all? 

(This point is well illustrated in the famous answer NammAzhwAr gave
Madhura-kavi who asked "settatin vayittril siriyadu pirandAl, ettai
tinggu engay kidakkUm?"; pat came the answer, "atthai tinggu aangay
kidakkum!").

-- The interesting 'purAnic' story of DadhipAnda on the other hand
seems to suggest to us, in a vague sort of way, that both 'cetanam'
(DadhipAnda himself) and 'acetanam' (his famous pot) can both equally
aspire to (and they indeed did) attain 'mOkshA'?

So how are we to reconcile the strictly philosophical position with
that of the 'purAnic' incident and narrative? It was that question
which I think was originally posed and remains, to my mind at least,
still unaddressed.
*******************

The problem seems to be we are mixing up a question of pure
philosophy with one of theological belief.

To my mind, DadhipAndan's story was never meant to illustrate the
metaphysical categories of 'cit', 'acit' and 'isvara'. The story is
really intended to illustrate (through platonic exaggeration) God's
'nirhetuka-krupa' -- that He is ever willing to shower his Grace
freely (to the point of saying 'indiscriminately' even) on those who
are his true devotees --- them, their families and indeed everything
associated with them. 

PeriAzhwAr expressed this very beautifully : "yennaiyUm, yen
udaimaiyai-yUm wUn sakkaraporiyOtrikondu ninnarulE
purinthirundhane..." 
(senniyOngu)

We should carefully note the word "yennaiyUm, yen udaimaiyai-yUm ..".
Not only I, but everyone/everything associated with me, O Lord, are
in receipt of your unbounded Grace, exults the AzhwAr.

In Dadhipandan, the potter's case, he probably had none except his
famous 'pot' to call as family --- the 'ghattam' perhaps was the only
"yen udaimaiyai-yUm ..". 

Regards,
dAsan,

Sudarshan




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