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SriRangaSri List Archive: Message 00065 Sep 2002

 
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Emotion is a wonderful thing, it elevates us to a high level
of devotional ecstasy. However, when it comes to philosophy,
emotion has no place. We must be guided only by pramANAs.
Great Acharyas decorating Sri Ramanuja Darshanam are
meticulous in this regard.

There are only three pramANAs, namely, Shastras, anumanam
(logic), and pratyaksham (observation). Of these three, Shashtras
are the foremost pramANam.

In this matter of chetanam v. achetanam we must be guided only
by shashtra pramANam as taught to us by our great Acharya
parapmaparai of Bhagavad Ramanuja. The Acharyas of this
great tradition have taught us that there are three realities, chetanam,
achetanam, and Iswaran. All three are real. Achetanam is as
real as Iswaran.

In the case of dadhipandan, let me repeat again, only the jIvatma
in the pot got mOksham, not the pot. So, this act of granting
moksham has nothing to do with the pot itself. Lord Krishna did
not grant moksham to the clay pot, only to the jIvatma residing in
the pot. Therefore granting mOksham to the jIvatma i.e. chetanam,
could not prove or disprove that the clay pot (jadam) is real. Indeed
the clay in the pot is real, but that fact comes from shashthras not
from the fact Sri Krishna granted moksham to the jIvatna residing
in the pot.

Also, please note, for an advaitin, not only the clay pot (jadam)
is unreal, the jIvatma (ajadam) as a separate entity from Paramatma
is also equally unreal. So the argument that Krishna (Paramatma)
granting moksham to one "unreal" entity, proves the reality of
another "unreal" entity will be unconvincing to an advaitin.

Let me also submit that statements such as Lord Krishna
can convert matter (achetanam) to spirit (chetanam) are
emotional exaggerations. These emotions cannot stand up
to careful scrutiny. The three realities chit, achit, and Iswaran
are eternal, i.e. they were not created by anyone. There is
no pramANam to claim that Iswara can create chit from
achit [matter (energy) into spirit (sic)]. Absence of pramANam
precluding a claim cannot be offered as its proof. If this is
the standard for proof anyone can claim anything that is not
explicitly denied. Vishnu puranam or Bhagavadam does
not deny anywhere that Krishna hated Gopikas. So can we
say Krishna hated Gopikas? After all, shashthras don't deny
this. But this is obviously absurd. Even though the original
statement was well motivated, the line argument if accepted
will inevitably lead to untenable conclusions.

We have to be careful when we make claims for Sri Vaishnavam.
Great Acharyas of our tradition such as Swami Sri Desikan
overcame enormous opposition by strictly adhering to the
truth without diminishing or exaggerating anything. So, the
least we could do to respect this great tradition is to not give
in to emotional speculations on matters that are philosophical.
Before making sweeping statements in the name of Sri Vaishnavam,
please check and make sure such statements are indeed
supported by Sri Vaishnavam.

-- adiyEn


At 07:45 PM 9/17/2002 -0700, Narender Reddy wrote:

maya and does not exist in reality. Contrary to the
advaithic thought, Lord Krishna SHOWED that the JADAM
(achethanam) is REAL, thus supporting and proving the
Viaishnava thought.


.... the sastras do not say that the
super soul (Paramathma; thripada vibhuthi)
can not tranform the achethana into chethanam or
spirit.





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