You are here: SriPedia - SriRangaSri - Archives - Sep 2002

SriRangaSri List Archive: Message 00070 Sep 2002

 
Sep 2002 Indexes ( Date | Thread | Author )
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]


> --- "I.V.K. CHARY" <ivkchary@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> > >Dear Sri Sudharsan,
> > >This discussion is interesting indeed. I am just wanting to look
> > at it in > >another way, albeit, unsure how far this can stand a
> scrutiny from> Sastraic > >view.> >What or who is Achetanam? Is it
> not again a body which is> suscptible to > >changes like
> human/animal/plant bodies? Is it mandatory that all> Jeevas > >have
> got to enter only a Chethana body? If so, how come Ahalya, as> a >
> >Jeeva, entered the body of a rock to be retrieved by Lord Rama?>
> What about > >various narrations in Puranas where
> Deva/Manushya/Rakshasaas> getting into 
> > >bodies not of their own as a result of a curse? When once the
> > curse is > >revoked, the jeeva in it getting back to its earlier
> form and the> cursed > >body facing dilution or destruction? Please
> throw some light> >Regards,
> > >Dasan
> 
> 
> Dear SrimAN Chari & Smt.Kalaivani,
> 
> After reading through both your interesting viewpoints, I can only
> say you have got me thinking very hard but not convinced. Perhaps,
> adiyane lacks the mental or spiritual capacity to grasp the
> 'sUkshmam' of the 'cetana-acetanam' dichotomy.
> 
> My knowledge is very small in these matters and is restricted to
> the
> following:
> 
> (1) The "tattva-traya" is a fundamental cornerstone of Vedanta
> philosophy. 
> 
> (2) "cit', "acit" and "Isvara" are 3 realities of existence. 
> 
> (3) 'cit' is what is alive, intelligent, conscious and
> regenerative.
> 'jIvAtmA' is 'cit'. 
> 
> (4) "acit" is also real but is un-intelligent, lacking in
> consciousness and is degenerative. Matter is 'acit'.
> 
> (5) "Iswara" is absolute intelligence, absolute consciousness and
> it
> is eternal. It never undergoes degeneration because it is
> indestructible. It never undergoes regeneration because it needs no
> regeneration.
> 
> From my limited understanding of the 'tattva-traya', I conclude
> that Matter and Spirit, "acit" and "cit" are both real. They are
> also
> definitely both related to Isvara. But that does not mean they are
> related to Isvara in exactly similar ways.
> 
> If the 'cit' and the 'acit' are conceived to be both related to
> Isvara in exactly the same way (as in the way they attain 'mOksha',
> for example), then what is the need for the concept of
> "tattva-traya"? What is the need for distinguishing at all between
> 'sarira' and 'atma' or Matter and Spirit? If Matter possesses a
> spirit too within itself, then what is the need to distinguish
> between 'cit' and 'acit'? Why would Madhura-kavi ask Maran the
> question "cettatin vayitril siriyadu pirandhAl, ettai tinggu engay
> kidakkum?", if both "cettadhu" and "siriyadhu" possessed 'atmA'?
> Everything that exists becomes 'cit', in that case. Why bother to
> posit something called "acit" at all?
> 
> I am therefore unable to find credible answers for the above
> questions from both your arguments. Please remember that the
> 'tattva-traya' is the very bedrock of Vedantic philosophy. If one
> posits arguments which tend to confuse this foundation, then the
> whole edifice of Vedantic philsophic will come tumbling down.
> 
> ******** ******** *******
> 
> With regard to the story of Ahalya that Sri.Chari alludes to, I
> humbly submit that once again we are confusing theological doctrine
> with philosopical axiom.
> 
> The story of Ahalya appears in the 'Ramayana' which is considered
> to
> be an encyclopaedia of "saranagati-sAstra". The main purpose of the
> story is only to ilustrate that the path of self-surrender,
> 'saranagati', that 'upAYa' is available for even the most lowly
> of
> beings. Anyone can resort to 'saranagati' if the mind is made up,
> one has abiding faith in it and waits patiently (like an inert
> 'stone'!) to ultimately reap its benefit viz. salvation or
> 'mOksha'.
> Even if a being were to be accursed (as Ahalya was), even if a
> being
> were full of evil or demonaic nature (rakshasa) or even if a being
> were as severely limited in intelligence as a dumb animal -- the
> story of Ahalya reveals to us that the being still need not worry.
> There is still spiritual hope for such a being because redemption
> is
> available through 'saranagati'.
> 
> 'saranagati' is profound theological doctrine. "tattva-traya" is
> profound philosophical principle. The story of Ahalya, in adiyane's
> humble opinion, illustrates the theological doctrine of
> 'sarangagati'; not the philosophical principle of "tattva-traya".
> Since we have confused one with the other, it is only natural that
> we
> have ended up with the confusion we presently have on our hands (or
> should I say minds!).
> 
> ******* ********** ********
> 
> Some persons in the other cyber-lists have buttressed their views
> in
> this debate by conveniently stating that their position is advanced
> by Srimadh Azhagiyasingar himself, and hence their view is true and
> authoritative.
> 
> Well, adiyane can only respond saying that I am also an ardent
> follower of the present Azhgiyasingar and would gladly accept his
> word to be truth. But in this matter I am not sure if those who
> claim
> they are quoting the Azhgiyasingar are quoting him correctly or
> faithfully. Who can say for sure in what exact context the AchArya
> really said what is being reported as being his words/views? 
> 
> Until adiyane has had an opportunity to get this doubt clarified
> personally with a qualified person (or perhaps with Srimadh
> Azhagiyasingar himself on my next trip to the Mutt), and have the
> matter explained to me more clearly and authoritatively, I choose
> to
> reserve judgment on the matter.
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> dAsan,
> 
> Sudarshan


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index ] [Thread Index ] [Author Index ]
Home Page
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia
srirangasri-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the list