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Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

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Expand view Topic review: Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Re: Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Post by Miguel.mateo » 15 Jan 2009, 07:50

theeuro wrote:I am saying that if any Member State has already made a change in their national design and the change was approved prior to the adoption of this Recommendation (since the recommendation was adopted fairly late in 2008, a Member State may have proceeded on the basis of the previous recommendations in changing their national design and it would have had to have been approved before the 19 Dec 2008 Recommendation), then that particular national design would be produced. If there are any national design that fall within this scenario, we would probably hear about it by the end of February at the latest. As for when they would 'show up' (I'm guessing you mean in circulation?)- the time frame would be the same as any new design.


It will be interesting to know which member states already have such changes submitted and approved ... I guess we will have to wait for a few weeks to hear about it :?

Miguel

Re: Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Post by theeuro » 14 Jan 2009, 17:21

Miguel.mateo wrote:This year Luxembourg is changing its production to another mint. What happens in those cases? Are the newly selected mint supposed to create the dies or are the dies being carried from the previous mint? If it is the first, then a change in design could happen any time. If it is the second, it applies the same rule you mentioned.


The dyes for Luxembourg are always engraved in Utrecht, no matter which mint is producing the Luxembourg Euro coins. Only the facilities are used to engrave the dyes, the staff comes from Luxembourg. The dyes are usually taken between mints.

Are you saying that even changing the design this year to the same design used in 1999-2007 is also not clear now? I thought that was already decided ... I do know that things in this environment change rather quickly.


The Belgian design introduced in 2008 falls within both Article 5 and Article 8. Since the directive to revert the portrait of Albert II was made under the 2005 recommendation (which put a moratorium on changes to national designs until the end of 2008), the violation may be mitigated by the revocation of the previous recommendations in Article 9 of the new Recommendation. Also, Article 5 provides for an update or change to bring the national design into compliance, so the 2008 design falls within this stipulation as well.

If the head of the state changes right now, can they still mint three commemorative coins this year * they won't exceed the quantities?


Not for 2009. They've already met the production allocation for 2 Euro commemorative coins with the common commemorative issue and the Charlotte issue. I doubt there is a scenario that would allow for three 2 Euro commemoratives in one year from any Member State.

So what you're trying to say is that if any country already have a change in design in mind and has been approved then a new set of coins may come, correct? If this is the case, how long would it take for those new coins to show up?


I am saying that if any Member State has already made a change in their national design and the change was approved prior to the adoption of this Recommendation (since the recommendation was adopted fairly late in 2008, a Member State may have proceeded on the basis of the previous recommendations in changing their national design and it would have had to have been approved before the 19 Dec 2008 Recommendation), then that particular national design would be produced. If there are any national design that fall within this scenario, we would probably hear about it by the end of February at the latest. As for when they would 'show up' (I'm guessing you mean in circulation?)- the time frame would be the same as any new design.

I saw the other two posts, indeed it helps to understand a bit more about the implications of the recommendation.


The implications of this Recommendation are quite wide-ranging and far-reaching. Hopefully by 2015, we will have discussed all of them! ;)

Re: Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Post by Miguel.mateo » 14 Jan 2009, 10:42

theeuro wrote:Luxembourg likely will not change their design since they are reliant on other production facilities for their Euro coins.


This year Luxembourg is changing its production to another mint. What happens in those cases? Are the newly selected mint supposed to create the dies or are the dies being carried from the previous mint? If it is the first, then a change in design could happen any time. If it is the second, it applies the same rule you mentioned.

theeuro wrote:This is all very unclear. Belgium just got a new government in the last month after having practically no government for the last 2 years. Also, their mint is closing after this year, so I'm not entirely sure what the new plan is. The 15 years begins at the point of any new design- updated, amended, changed, etc...


Are you saying that even changing the design this year to the same design used in 1999-2007 is also not clear now? I thought that was already decided ... I do know that things in this environment change rather quickly.

theeuro wrote:I understand your Luxembourg scenario. In this particular case, were there to be a vacancy in the Grand Ducal position of Luxembourg before the end of 2009, I would imagine any commemoration of the vacancy would take place in 2010- then Luxembourg would be permitted two separate €2 circulation commemorative €2 coins for that year (in this unlikely event, it would probably be one to commemorate the present G-D and one to commemorate the heir), plus a potential new standard series of Euro circulation coins depicting the new G-D.


If the head of the state changes right now, can they still mint three commemorative coins this year * they won't exceed the quantities?

theeuro wrote:
4. Since this new recommendation superseded the previous recommendations, then radical changes in the design can not be seen until at least 2015 unless a head of state dies, correct? Previous recommendations says that countries could change their national design after 2008, but current recommendation says the countrary. So if any country, (let's say an obvious that will not happen) like Ireland for example, wants to change the national design, it is not allowed now, correct?


This is correct. This Recommendation does provide two stipulations which would allow for what you have said to become untrue:

1) If a Member State has already made a change in the design based on the previous recommendation that allowed for a change in design at the end of 2008- and the designs have already been approved.

2) Article 8 says that "...[the Recommendation] should not apply to the national sides ... which have been first issued or approved according to the agreed information procedure prior to the adoption of this Recommendation..." - so if there have been changes made and approved before the adoption of this recommendation, which is dated 19 December 2008, those changes would have been already approved under the previous sets of recommendations that were followed prior to 19.12.2008, and therefore would still fall within the constraints of this Recommendation concerning changes to a national design.


So what you're trying to say is that if any country already have a change in design in mind and has been approved then a new set of coins may come, correct? If this is the case, how long would it take for those new coins to show up?

theeuro wrote:[Another helpful post might also be Changes to the national obverse of Euro coins. There, I've clarified some of the dates allowed for changes to the national designs by Member State.


I saw the other two posts, indeed it helps to understand a bit more about the implications of the recommendation.

Thanks a lot!
Miguel

Re: Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Post by theeuro » 14 Jan 2009, 08:47

Miguel.mateo wrote:Thank you very much for such a good abstract of the recommendation. I have a few questions though (well, you knew this will be coming :geek:):


I already greased my fingers awaiting your question!! :lol:

1. Germany, Austria, Greece, Netherlands and Luxembourg: although they do not have to, considering that Finland and Belgium have decided to comply already, do we have at least intentions from them to comply in the future with this recommendation? It should be expensive to change a design, so I am wondering if those countries at least have talked about potential changes to comply with this recommendation in the early years to come (2009, 2010 or above.)


Changing the design of a coin is not as expensive or difficult as you might think. Every so many stamps for one dye and it has to be replaced anyway. The cost comes with the time it takes to implement the changes. It becomes more difficult to make a change the larger the volume of coins minted. Obviously Germany has the highest share of all Euro circulation coins. Austria and Netherlands are pretty high too. Spain has the 4th highest.

My feelings are that if one of these countries is going to change their design so that it becomes compliant with this recommendation (even though they don't have to), it would be closer to a time when the cost of maintaining one design becomes more expensive than to just commission another.

Luxembourg likely will not change their design since they are reliant on other production facilities for their Euro coins.

2. It is unclear what will happen to Belgium then. We have read in the past that the design in 2009 will change the effigy back to the original 1999 design. Is this still happening? If they change the design this year to the original design, then can they change it back in 2014 (15 years after 1999) to the design chosen in 2008 or to a new design? Or have Belgium received approval to continue with the new 2008 effigy design? In this case, they should be allowed to do an update in 2023 (15 years after 2008).


This is all very unclear. Belgium just got a new government in the last month after having practically no government for the last 2 years. Also, their mint is closing after this year, so I'm not entirely sure what the new plan is. The 15 years begins at the point of any new design- updated, amended, changed, etc...

3. Vatican Sede Vacante sample: we should not be seen sets like this anymore in the future for the Vatican or any other state, correct? However, we could see a second €2 commemorative coin issued for this event, correct? So what will happen in a year like 2009 for example, we could potentially have a country with three €2 commemorative coin on the same year? (Not that I want it to happen, but if Duke Henri dies this year, could we potentially see Luxembourg 10 years of the euro, Henri and Grand-Duchess Charlotte and a possible "Sede Vacante" commemorative coins?

A Vatican 'Sede Vacante', or anything like it will not happen again, unless in review of this Recommendation, a vacancy or temporary occupancy of the Head of State allows for issuing a complete series of standard circulation Euro coins.

There are still limits to the number of coins a Member State can issue regardless of any special circumstance. The spirit of the Recommendation is that in lieu of an entirely new series, as happened with Sede Vacante in 2005, a Member State can opt to have the entire value of their total €2 coin production quota entirely in the form of €2 commemorative coins- but this is still subject to approval as far as quantity is concerned.

I understand your Luxembourg scenario. In this particular case, were there to be a vacancy in the Grand Ducal position of Luxembourg before the end of 2009, I would imagine any commemoration of the vacancy would take place in 2010- then Luxembourg would be permitted two separate €2 circulation commemorative €2 coins for that year (in this unlikely event, it would probably be one to commemorate the present G-D and one to commemorate the heir), plus a potential new standard series of Euro circulation coins depicting the new G-D.

4. Since this new recommendation superseded the previous recommendations, then radical changes in the design can not be seen until at least 2015 unless a head of state dies, correct? Previous recommendations says that countries could change their national design after 2008, but current recommendation says the countrary. So if any country, (let's say an obvious that will not happen) like Ireland for example, wants to change the national design, it is not allowed now, correct?


This is correct. This Recommendation does provide two stipulations which would allow for what you have said to become untrue:

1) If a Member State has already made a change in the design based on the previous recommendation that allowed for a change in design at the end of 2008- and the designs have already been approved.

2) Article 8 says that "...[the Recommendation] should not apply to the national sides ... which have been first issued or approved according to the agreed information procedure prior to the adoption of this Recommendation..." - so if there have been changes made and approved before the adoption of this recommendation, which is dated 19 December 2008, those changes would have been already approved under the previous sets of recommendations that were followed prior to 19.12.2008, and therefore would still fall within the constraints of this Recommendation concerning changes to a national design.

5. How about a change in the head of state for Monaco and Spain? The head of state is depicted only in the 2 euro and 1 euro coins. Can they change the design of all coins (like Monaco did in 2006) if the head of state changes?


This is not made explicitly clear in the text of the Recommendation, but it is accepted that no matter the denomination on which a Head of State is depicted, were the Head of State to change for any of the EMU coin issuing Members, the entire series of denominated circulation Euro coins would be allowed to change. This is actually governed by some pretty simple, often one-line rules within the texts of many Members' coinage acts. For example, Monaco's entire standard national design, while the Head of State appears only on the 2 and 1 Euro coins, contains other coins, which are designed in context of the current Head of State and so would change to become in context of the succeeding Head of State (whomever that might be for Monaco). The same is true of the Spanish design; while I'm not 100% certain that the minor denominations fall within a certain context of the tenure of King Juan Carlos, those designs could be changed to allow for the potential of the succeeding national design to have a context which would be expressed in the minor denominations.

I bet you that rumors will start spreading on the net soon about the implications of this new recommendation.


I thought the same thing... that's why I posted it with commentary before it was announced, so that any rumors would be answered before they were asked.

Your questions helped to clarify the points made in the Recommendation.

Another helpful post might also be Changes to the national obverse of Euro coins. There, I've clarified some of the dates allowed for changes to the national designs by Member State.

Re: Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Post by Miguel.mateo » 14 Jan 2009, 04:16

Thank you very much for such a good abstract of the recommendation. I have a few questions though (well, you knew this will be coming :geek:):

1. Germany, Austria, Greece, Netherlands and Luxembourg: although they do not have to, considering that Finland and Belgium have decided to comply already, do we have at least intentions from them to comply in the future with this recommendation? It should be expensive to change a design, so I am wondering if those countries at least have talked about potential changes to comply with this recommendation in the early years to come (2009, 2010 or above.)

2. It is unclear what will happen to Belgium then. We have read in the past that the design in 2009 will change the effigy back to the original 1999 design. Is this still happening? If they change the design this year to the original design, then can they change it back in 2014 (15 years after 1999) to the design chosen in 2008 or to a new design? Or have Belgium received approval to continue with the new 2008 effigy design? In this case, they should be allowed to do an update in 2023 (15 years after 2008).

3. Vatican Sede Vacante sample: we should not be seen sets like this anymore in the future for the Vatican or any other state, correct? However, we could see a second €2 commemorative coin issued for this event, correct? So what will happen in a year like 2009 for example, we could potentially have a country with three €2 commemorative coin on the same year? (Not that I want it to happen, but if Duke Henri dies this year, could we potentially see Luxembourg 10 years of the euro, Henri and Grand-Duchess Charlotte and a possible "Sede Vacante" commemorative coins?

4. Since this new recommendation superseded the previous recommendations, then radical changes in the design can not be seen until at least 2015 unless a head of state dies, correct? Previous recommendations says that countries could change their national design after 2008, but current recommendation says the countrary. So if any country, (let's say an obvious that will not happen) like Ireland for example, wants to change the national design, it is not allowed now, correct?

5. How about a change in the head of state for Monaco and Spain? The head of state is depicted only in the 2 euro and 1 euro coins. Can they change the design of all coins (like Monaco did in 2006) if the head of state changes?

I bet you that rumors will start spreading on the net soon about the implications of this new recommendation.

Thanks again, Regards,
Miguel

Recommendation of 19 Dec 2008 on common guidelines for the n

Post by theeuro » 13 Jan 2009, 22:02

Previous references made on this website and forum concerning common guidelines for the national designs of circulation euro coins have been superseded by a new EC Recommendation. Please see details below (as copied here from The Euro Information Website- FAQ: Does the design of the Euro coins ever change?).

The Commission of the European Communities Recommendation of 19 December 2008 on common guidelines for the national sides and the issuance of euro coins intended for circulation (only the relevant articles are included here):

Article 2. Identification of the issuing Member State:
"The national sides of all denominations of the euro coins intended for circulation should bear an indication of the issuing Member State by means of the Member State’s name or an abbreviation of it."

Finland was the first Member State to come into compliance with an earlier recommendation similar to this article with an amendment to all denominations of euro coins intended for circulation.
Belgium was the second Member State to come into compliance with an earlier recommendation similar to this article with an update to all denominations of euro coins intended for circulation.
Austria, Germany and Greece do not bear an indication of the issuing Member State by any means outlined in Article 2.

Article 3. Absence of the currency name and denomination:
Section 1. "The national side of the euro coins intended for circulation should not repeat any indication of the denomination, or any parts thereof, of the coin, neither should it repeat the name of the single currency or of its subdivision, unless such indication stems from the use of a different alphabet."

Greece and Cyprus are both permitted to repeat the denomination and the name of the single currency and its subdivisions, since both Member States use a different alphabet. Greece is the only Member State that practices this allowance.
All Austrian standard euro coin denominations intended for circulation repeat the denomination and name of the single currency/subdivision.

Section 2. "The edge lettering of the 2-euro coin could bear an indication of the denomination, provided that only the figure '2' or the term 'euro' or both are used."

Article 4. Design of the national sides:
"The national side of the euro coins intended for circulation should bear the 12 European stars that should fully surround the national design, including the year mark and the indication of the issuing Member State's name. The European stars should be depicted as on the European flag."

Dutch €0.50, €0.20, €0.10, €0.05, €0.02 and €0.01 standard euro coin denominations intended for circulation place the indication of the Member's name and the year mark outside of the 12 European stars.
Dutch €2.00 and €1.00 standard euro coin denominations intended for circulation do not depict the 12 European stars as they appear on the European flag.
Luxembourgish €0.50, €0.20, €0.10, €0.05, €0.02 and €0.01 standard euro coin denominations intended for circulation do not depict the 12 European stars as they appear on the European flag.

Article 5. Changes to the national sides of regular euro coins intended for circulation:
"Without prejudice to Article 6, the designs used for the national sides of the euro coins intended for circulation denominated in euro or in cent should not be modified, except in cases where the Head of State referred to on a coin changes. Issuing Member States should, however, be allowed to update the design of euro coins depicting the Head of State every fifteen years in order to take account of a change in the appearance of the Head of State. Issuing Member States should also be allowed to update their national sides of euro coins in order to fully comply with this Recommendation. A temporary vacancy or the provisional occupation of the function of Head of State should not give the right to change the national sides of the regular euro coins intended for circulation."

In 2005, upon the death of HH Pope John Paul II, Vatican City issued a second series of standard euro circulation coins which indicated a temporary vacancy of the Head of State and depicted the coat of arms of the Cardinal Camerlengo. This series is commonly referred to as the 'Sede Vacante' series. Upon the issuance of this second series, Vatican City became the first member within the euro area to issue a second series of standard euro circulation coins.

There have been two cases where the death of a Head of State prompted the exercise of this exception.
Vatican City issued a third series of standard circulation Euro coins, depicting a new Head of State, in 2006. HH Pope Benedict XVI was elected Head of State 17 days after the death of his predecessor in April, 2005. In 2006, Vatican City issued a third series of standard circulation Euro coins, depicting the new Head of State. Vatican City became the first member within the euro area to issue a third series of standard euro circulation coins.
Four days after the death of HH Pope John Paul II, in April of 2005, HSH Rainier III, Sovereign Prince of Monaco died. His son, Prince Albert II succeeded as Head of State of Monaco. In 2006, Monaco issued a second series of standard circulation Euro coins depicting the new Sovereign Prince of Monaco.

In 2008, Belgium issued a second series of standard circulation euro coins. The design includes an updated depiction of the Head of State, King Albert II.

Article 6. Issuance of commemorative euro coins intended for circulation:

Section 1. "Issues of commemorative euro coins intended for circulation showing a different national design from that of the regular euro coins intended for circulation should only commemorate subjects of major national or European relevance. Commemorative euro coins intended for circulation collectively issued by all participating Member States should only commemorate subjects of the highest European relevance and their issuance should be endorsed by the Council."

There have been two collectively issued commemorative circulation euro coins- Treaty of Rome 50th Anniversary and 10 Years EMU.

Section 2. "The issuance of commemorative euro coins intended for circulation should comply with the following rules:
Subsection (a). "the number of issues should be limited to one per issuing Member State per year, except in cases where:
paragraph (i). "commemorative euro coins intended for circulation are collectively issued by all participating Member States;
paragraph (ii). "a possible commemorative euro coin intended for circulation is issued at the occasion of a temporary vacancy or a provisional occupation of the function of Head of State.
Subsection (b). "the 2-euro coin should be the sole denomination used for such issues;
Subsection (c). "the total number of coins put into circulation for each individual issue should not exceed the higher of the following two ceilings:
paragraph (i). "0,1% of the total number of 2-euro coins brought into circulation by all participating Member States up to the beginning of the year preceding the year of issuance of the commemorative coin; this ceiling may be raised to 2,0% of the total circulation of 2-euro coins of all participating Member States if a global and highly symbolic subject is commemorated, in which case the issuing Member State should refrain from launching another commemorative circulation coin issue using the raised ceiling during the subsequent four years and should set out the reasons for choosing the raised ceiling when providing information as provided for in Article 7;
paragraph (ii). "5,0% of the total number of 2-euro coins brought into circulation by the issuing Member State concerned up to the beginning of the year preceding the year of issuance of the commemorative coin.
Subsection (d). "the edge lettering on commemorative euro coins intended for circulation should be the same as on regular euro coins intended for circulation."

Finland has issued three commemorative euro coins intended for circulation whose edge lettering was not the same as on regular euro coins intended for circulation.

Article 7. Information procedure and publication of future changes:
"Member States should inform each other on the draft designs of new national sides of euro coins, including the edge letterings, and of the volume of issuance before they formally approve these designs. To this effect, new draft designs of euro coins should be forwarded by the issuing Member State to the Commission, as a rule, at least six months before the planned issue date. The Commission should verify compliance with the guidelines of this Recommendation and inform the other Member States without delay via the Economic and Financial Committee’s relevant subcommittee. If and when the Commission considers that the guidelines of the present Recommendation are not respected, the relevant subcommittee of the Economic and Financial Committee should decide whether to approve the design.
"The relevant subcommittee of the Economic and Financial Committee should approve the designs of commemorative euro coins intended for circulation collectively issued by all participating Member States.
"All relevant information on new national euro coin designs will be published in the Official Journal of the European Union."

Article 8. Scope of the recommended practices:
"This Recommendation should apply to national sides and edge letterings of both regular and commemorative euro coins intended for circulation. It should not apply to the national sides and edge letterings of both regular and commemorative euro coins intended for circulation which have been first issued or approved according to the agreed information procedure prior to the adoption of this Recommendation."

Austrian euro coin designs fall outside Article 2 and Article 3 of this recommendation. German and Greek euro coin designs fall outside Article 2 of this recommendation. Dutch and Luxembourgish euro coin designs fall outside Article 4 of this recommendation. All five of these national euro coin designs fall within Article 8 of this recommendation because they were all issued or approved according to the agreed information procedure prior to the adoption of this recommendation and therefore, are not required to re-design, update or otherwise change the national design of their standard circulation national euro coins.
However, Article 5 of this recommendation allows for an update to these national euro coin designs in order to fully comply with this Recommendation, but does not require an update or re-design to these national euro coin designs.

Article 9. Repealing of previous recommendations:
"Recommendations 2003/734/EC and 2005/491/EC are hereby repealed."

The following stipulations previously cited in this FAQ have been superseded, in whole or in part, by this Recommendation:
No changes should be made to the standard' national side of the Euro circulation coins until the end of 2008, except if the Head of State who is depicted on a coin changes...

...a change to the standard national side is possible if the Head of State depicted on a coin changes, while the moratorium for changes to the national sides on other grounds could be reconsidered by the end of 2008.


Recommendation Review
In paragraph 16 of the Recommendation's preamble, a review of this Recommendation will be prepared by the end of 2015, "...in order to determine whether the guidelines need to be modified."

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