"Aspect-only" (Split from Rijksbaron 01: Note 1)

Ken M. Penner
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Re: 01: Note 1

Post by Ken M. Penner »

Stephen Carlson wrote:English also uses the past in counterfactual contexts. "I wish I knew the answer!" is actually a statement about the present, despite the use of the preterite "knew."
Proof that English is a tenseless language! ;)
Ken M. Penner
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Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: 01: Note 1

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

As much as I appreciate lively discussion, this thread (or subforum) doesn't feel like the proper place for details of aspect wars. What is still needed after my last comment is a good, concise, modern - it's 2010's now, not 90's! -, neutral and objective (not Buthian!) introduction to the important arguments of non-tense view and the counter-arguments. For the current project there are a couple of possibilities. 1) Someone writes a concise note, maybe about half a page, to inform Koine students about the situation. 2) Someone writes a 20-page or so article describing the situation and arguments. It can be used as a reference. 3) Those people here who have criticized the non-tense view write a collection of articles. It would be longer than 2).
Ken M. Penner
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Re: 01: Note 1

Post by Ken M. Penner »

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote:As much as I appreciate lively discussion, this thread (or subforum) doesn't feel like the proper place for details of aspect wars.
Eeli's right. I don't mind deleting my comments on tenselessness from this thread.
Ken M. Penner
Professor and Chair of Religious Studies, St. Francis Xavier University
Editor, Digital Biblical Studies
General Editor, Lexham English Septuagint
Co-Editor, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha pseudepigrapha.org
Stephen Carlson
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Re: 01: Note 1

Post by Stephen Carlson »

I'll just move the aspect stuff to a thread of its own.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
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David Lim
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Re: 01: Note 1

Post by David Lim »

Stephen Carlson wrote:English also uses the past in counterfactual contexts. "I wish I knew the answer!" is actually a statement about the present, despite the use of the preterite "knew."
Hmm I am not too sure about that. I think "knew" in this case is the last vestige of the subjunctive in English, akin to "I wish I were a lion!" (and not "was"), though I think few use the correct original form anymore. Or does the English subjunctive come from the preterite?
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MAubrey
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Re: "Aspect-only" (Split from Rijksbaron 01: Note 1)

Post by MAubrey »

David Lim wrote:Hmm I am not too sure about that. I think "knew" in this case is the last vestige of the subjunctive in English, akin to "I wish I were a lion!" (and not "was"), though I think few use the correct original form anymore. Or does the English subjunctive come from the preterite?
Nope. This is a preterite.

More importantly, though, let's not get into a debate about English grammar on a forum for Greek grammar.
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: "Aspect-only" (Split from Rijksbaron 01: Note 1)

Post by Stephen Carlson »

MAubrey wrote:Nope. This is a preterite.
Yes. That's exactly how the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language analyzes it (pp.84-88).
MAubrey wrote:More importantly, though, let's not get into a debate about English grammar on a forum for Greek grammar.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
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