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Comparative with gen./ἢ (inc. question form)/ὑπὲρ

Posted: October 19th, 2014, 5:09 am
by Stephen Hughes
Is there any meaningful distinction between the comparative with ὑπὲρ, the genitive or ἢ?

What I can see is that (+gen.) is used with regular adjectival force.
Matthew 12:45 wrote:Τότε πορεύεται καὶ παραλαμβάνει μεθ’ ἑαυτοῦ ἑπτὰ ἕτερα πνεύματα πονηρότερα ἑαυτοῦ,
Luke 5:20 wrote:καὶ μείζονα τούτων δείξει αὐτῷ ἔργα, ἵνα ὑμεῖς θαυμάζητε.
1 Peter 1:7 wrote:ἵνα τὸ δοκίμιον ὑμῶν τῆς πίστεως πολὺ τιμιώτερον χρυσίου τοῦ ἀπολλυμένου,
ἢ seems to be only used with impersonal constructions.
Mark 6:11 wrote:Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀνεκτότερον ἔσται Σοδόμοις ἢ Γομόρροις ἐν ἡμέρᾳ κρίσεως, τῇ πόλει ἐκείνῃ.
Mark 10:25 wrote:Εὐκοπώτερόν ἐστιν κάμηλον διὰ τῆς τρυμαλιᾶς τῆς ῥαφίδος εἰσελθεῖν, πλούσιον εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰσελθεῖν.
Perhaps a question in Greek like Luke 5:23 is not an alternative of equals such as it appears in English.
Luke 5:23 wrote:Τί ἐστιν εὐκοπώτερον, εἰπεῖν, Ἀφέωνταί σοι αἱ ἁμαρτίαι σου, εἰπεῖν, Ἔγειραι καὶ περιπάτει;
The first mentioned alternative is often the one that is the expected reply.

What I really have no idea about are these two instances with ὑπὲρ.
Luke 16:8 wrote:ὅτι οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου φρονιμώτεροι ὑπὲρ τοὺς υἱοὺς τοῦ φωτὸς εἰς τὴν γενεὰν τὴν ἑαυτῶν εἰσιν.
Hebrews 4:12 wrote:Ζῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ ἐνεργής, καὶ τομώτερος ὑπὲρ πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον,

Re: Comparative with gen./ἢ (inc. question form)/ὑπὲρ

Posted: October 19th, 2014, 7:04 am
by cwconrad
Stephen Hughes wrote:Is there any meaningful distinction between the comparative with ὑπὲρ, the genitive or ἢ?
...What I really have no idea about are these two instances with ὑπὲρ.
Luke 16:8 wrote:ὅτι οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου φρονιμώτεροι ὑπὲρ τοὺς υἱοὺς τοῦ φωτὸς εἰς τὴν γενεὰν τὴν ἑαυτῶν εἰσιν.
Hebrews 4:12 wrote:Ζῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ ἐνεργής, καὶ τομώτερος ὑπὲρ πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον,
Might this be a Semitism? I suspect also that every language has its less-frequently-used alternatives for expressions of comparisons. It seems to me I've seen παρὰ used in some constructions of comparison too. For ὑπὲρ I think of the not uncommon English "above and beyond"

Re: Comparative with gen./ἢ (inc. question form)/ὑπὲρ

Posted: October 19th, 2014, 7:37 am
by Stephen Hughes
cwconrad wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Is there any meaningful distinction between the comparative with ὑπὲρ, the genitive or ἢ?
...What I really have no idea about are these two instances with ὑπὲρ.
Luke 16:8 wrote:ὅτι οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου φρονιμώτεροι ὑπὲρ τοὺς υἱοὺς τοῦ φωτὸς εἰς τὴν γενεὰν τὴν ἑαυτῶν εἰσιν.
Hebrews 4:12 wrote:Ζῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ ἐνεργής, καὶ τομώτερος ὑπὲρ πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον,
Might this be a Semitism? I suspect also that every language has its less-frequently-used alternatives for expressions of comparisons. It seems to me I've seen παρὰ used in some constructions of comparison too. For ὑπὲρ I think of the not uncommon English "above and beyond"
Considering the authours, I was reluctant to posit that as an answer.

Does Semitic have a preposition in comparative structures than means "above and beyond"? This question is out of my depth, I belong in the wading pool with Hebrew and Aramaic.