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The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 24th, 2015, 10:08 am
by Wesley_Dingman
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus tells his disciples that the Gentiles “δοκοῦσιν . . . ὅτι ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν εἰσακουσθήσονται.” BDAG glosses “ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν” as “with their many words” (s.v. πολυλογία), translating ἐν as “with,” which is one of the more common meanings of ἐν. However, towards the end of BDAG’s entry for ἐν (s.v. no. 9 [of 12]), the meaning of ἐν is given as “because of, on account of.” Matt 6:7 is then glossed in 9a as “because of their many words.” BDAG thus clearly equates “with their many words” to “because of their many words.” Thus “with” is alleged to have the meaning “because of.”
But is this correct? The answer is yes: The Oxford English Dictionary indicates that “with” can mean “in consequence of, as a result of, by the action of, because of,” etc. Nevertheless, this meaning is rare; it is no. 39 of 40. In the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary (11th ed.), this meaning is not even listed. Consequently, it would probably be appropriate to change the gloss in BDAG (s.v. πολυλογία) from “with” to “because of.”
But what about Bible translations? A quick search of various translations shows that “with” is not used. This seems appropriate because “with” so rarely means “because of.” The most commonly used word is “for.” For example, the NASB renders the phrase “they [the Gentiles] suppose that they will be heard for their many words.” Is this any better? According to the OED, the preposition “for” may mean “because of, on account of” (s.v. no. 21 [of 31]) or “in consequence of, by reasons of” (s.v. no. 22). Thus “for” meaning “because of” is also rare in English.
This begs a final question: When considering the best translation for ἐν in this verse, is it better to translate it with a very clear equivalent (“because of” or “on account of”), or with “for” or “with” (which can mean “because of,” but which usually do not)? In the first place, the translation is very clear; in the second case, a rare use of the preposition ἐν (“because of”) is rendered into English using a preposition (“for” or “with”) that similarly rarely means “because of.” Is the second translation thus “closer” to the original? Any thoughts?
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 25th, 2015, 8:55 am
by Barry Hofstetter
In general, Wesley, we concern ourselves less with issues of translation here than we do in actually understanding the Greek, which you do quite well here. My initial thought is that if "with" or "for" can mean "because of" as often as ἐν means "because of," why not use one of these prepositions in English? The Greek reader would pick up the meaning of the preposition from context, and similarly the English reader should be able to pick the usage of "with" or "for" from context. If Matthew had wished to be as specific as the English "because of" he could have written διὰ τὴν πολυλογίαν...
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 25th, 2015, 9:14 am
by Louis L Sorenson
Mt. 6:7 Προσευχόμενοι δὲ μὴ βατταλογήσητε ὥσπερ οἱ ἐθνικοί, δοκοῦσιν γὰρ ὅτι ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν εἰσακουσθήσονται.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 25th, 2015, 10:34 am
by cwconrad
BDAG, s.v. ἐν wrote:5. marker introducing means or instrument, with, a construction that begins w. Homer (many examples of instrumental ἐν in Radermacher’s edition of Ps.-Demetr., Eloc. p. 100; Reader, Polemo p. 258) but whose wide currency in our lit. is partly caused by the infl. of the LXX, and its similarity to the Hebr. constr. w. בְּ (B-D-F §219; Mlt. 104; Mlt-H. 463f; s. esp. M-M p. 210).
I recall taking note, when I started reading the GNT more extensively (after years of concentration on earlier Greek), how commonly the preposition ἐν is employed in NT Koine in the instrumental sense. The instrumental usage in Greek can certainly be conveyed in several different ways in English. This might be one of those instances in which an interlinear's gloss won't be helpful.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 25th, 2015, 7:41 pm
by Stephen Carlson
cwconrad wrote:BDAG, s.v. ἐν wrote:5. marker introducing means or instrument, with, a construction that begins w. Homer (many examples of instrumental ἐν in Radermacher’s edition of Ps.-Demetr., Eloc. p. 100; Reader, Polemo p. 258) but whose wide currency in our lit. is partly caused by the infl. of the LXX, and its similarity to the Hebr. constr. w. בְּ (B-D-F §219; Mlt. 104; Mlt-H. 463f; s. esp. M-M p. 210).
I recall taking note, when I started reading the GNT more extensively (after years of concentration on earlier Greek), how commonly the preposition ἐν is employed in NT Koine in the instrumental sense. The instrumental usage in Greek can certainly be conveyed in several different ways in English. This might be one of those instances in which an interlinear's gloss won't be helpful.
It depends on the interlinear. One tied to a particular translation, like the NET, would have an instrumental gloss ("by"). Tied to the NRSV or the NIV, it would have "because of". Tied to the NASB, it would have "for". On the other hand, an interlinear with a concordant glossing strategy that endeavors for one-to-one mappings, e.g., ἐν always as "in," without regard to the context, is not only unhelpful but actively misleading. But I submit the bigger problem here is a poor semantic theory underlying this concordant glossing: polysemous words like ἐν simply don't have a single gloss that works in all contexts.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 26th, 2015, 5:32 am
by Stephen Hughes
Perhaps you could think of time spatially.
During the course of a long prayer, different prepositions could mean different things. If it had been διά, then we could understand it as they go through great long prayers. ἐν suggests that even though they don't know the will or mind of God, hopefully something in what they have said hits the spot or attracts the attention of God to answer them.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 26th, 2015, 7:39 am
by cwconrad
Stephen Hughes wrote:Perhaps you could think of time spatially.
During the course of a long prayer, different prepositions could mean different things. If it had been διά, then we could understand it as they go through great long prayers. ἐν suggests that even though they don't know the will or mind of God, hopefully something in what they have said hits the spot or attracts the attention of God to answer them.
Well, yes ... and during the course of Eph 1:3-14 one does get just that impression from the recurrent use of καθώς and ἐν ᾧ. I marvel too, at how the Pauline phrase ἐν Χριστῷ, the Greek usage of which has never been clarified to everybody's full satisfaction, has nevertheless won a standard English phrasing and a widespread usage which may or may not have anything to do with Paul's usage in the Greek text.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 26th, 2015, 10:24 am
by Stephen Hughes
cwconrad wrote:Stephen Hughes wrote:Perhaps you could think of time spatially.
During the course of a long prayer, different prepositions could mean different things. If it had been διά, then we could understand it as they go through great long prayers. ἐν suggests that even though they don't know the will or mind of God, hopefully something in what they have said hits the spot or attracts the attention of God to answer them.
Well, yes ... and during the course of Eph 1:3-14 one does get just that impression from the recurrent use of καθώς and ἐν ᾧ. I marvel too, at how the Pauline phrase ἐν Χριστῷ, the Greek usage of which has never been clarified to everybody's full satisfaction, has nevertheless won a standard English phrasing and a widespread usage which may or may not have anything to do with Paul's usage in the Greek text.
I mean go back to thinking temporally after thinking spatially. I am suggesting this as alternative to consider, not pushing it as the "right" answer.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 26th, 2015, 11:34 am
by cwconrad
Stephen Hughes wrote:cwconrad wrote:Stephen Hughes wrote:Perhaps you could think of time spatially.
During the course of a long prayer, different prepositions could mean different things. If it had been διά, then we could understand it as they go through great long prayers. ἐν suggests that even though they don't know the will or mind of God, hopefully something in what they have said hits the spot or attracts the attention of God to answer them.
Well, yes ... and during the course of Eph 1:3-14 one does get just that impression from the recurrent use of καθώς and ἐν ᾧ. I marvel too, at how the Pauline phrase ἐν Χριστῷ, the Greek usage of which has never been clarified to everybody's full satisfaction, has nevertheless won a standard English phrasing and a widespread usage which may or may not have anything to do with Paul's usage in the Greek text.
I mean go back to thinking temporally after thinking spatially. I am suggesting this as alternative to consider, not pushing it as the "right" answer.
Sorry, I thought we were talking about instrumental uses of ἐν. As for space and time, I'd think it's the traditional
locative usage of the dative that's involved; English "at" does pretty good service for both the temporal and spatial senses.
Re: The translation of "ἐν" in Matt 6:7
Posted: June 26th, 2015, 12:21 pm
by Stephen Hughes
cwconrad wrote:As for space and time, I'd think it's the traditional locative usage of the dative that's involved; English "at" does pretty good service for both the temporal and spatial senses.
I think that a generalisation of that sort can't go deeper than aspect. Consider the tenses here:
Matthew 2:1 wrote:Τοῦ δὲ Ἰησοῦ γεννηθέντος ἐν Βηθλεὲμ τῆς Ἰουδαίας, ἐν ἡμέραις Ἡρῴδου τοῦ βασιλέως
γεννηθέντος is aorist.
Jesus wasn't born over a long time, or on every day, but rather on one of them.
Οὐαὶ δὲ ταῖς ἐν γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις καὶ ταῖς θηλαζούσαις ἐν ἐκείναις ταῖς ἡμέραις.
ἐχούσαις and θηλαζούσαις are present
The pregnancies and times of breast-feeding could extend over all or a number of the days.
Taking that as an example, we could look at this verse. With the two aspects in Matthew 6:7
δοκοῦσιν γὰρ ὅτι ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν
εἰσακουσθήσονται
I think the δοκοῦσιν - "It seems to them", "they think" is left of the ὅτι, but εἰσακουσθήσονται is relevant. What is the aspect of the future? Difficult question. I think that to verbalise the prepositional phrase ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ it would be imperfect ἔλεγον πολλά.
The question of whether εἰσακουσθήσονται refers to the people (as they were praying) or to their prayers (as the people were praying them) is another point. I prefer that it refers to the αἱ προσευχαί implied by the Προσευχόμενοι at the beginning of the verse because of the ὅτι that separated the subjects.
I guess from context that the hearing was once, so that could be paraphrased (falsely) into the past tense, where aspct is most clearly marked, as something like προσευχόντων πολλὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν αἱ προσευχαὶ εἰσηκουσθησαν, or something less cumbersome.