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Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 2nd, 2022, 8:41 am
by Doug Dinnsen
Is there a lexicon that classifies all or most Koine and/or Classical Greek words like Louw-Nida does? I believe that Louw-Nida only includes words from the Bible. It would be helpful to know other words that they could have used. For example, Louw-Nida only lists one word with the meaning, "to cause to be large" μεγαλύνω. It would be helpful to know what other synonyms an author could have possibly used. It would be especially helpful if they used the same lexical domain schema as Louw-Nida.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 2nd, 2022, 9:58 pm
by RandallButh
Actually, the resource does not even need to be a semantic-domain dictionary. A simple English to Greek with regularly attested vocab and examples from 200BCEto200CE would be very useful. 1st century Greek-Greek or Eng-Greek would be a doorway to begin to appreciate the semantic grid within the audiences that Paul and Luke spoke to.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 3rd, 2022, 8:37 am
by Doug Dinnsen

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 3rd, 2022, 11:26 am
by RandallButh
Yes, you can use that,
but you must filter the information so that you don't take some poetic or epic word and assume that it was in the vocabulary of a first century farmer in Derbe.
Always check to see if, how, and where the word is used in Josephus, LXX, Epictetus, Plutarch, Apostolic Fathers, even Galen. Papyri help, too.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 3rd, 2022, 11:58 am
by Doug Dinnsen
Can you recommend an English to 1-cent Greek reference that does not require the 2nd step of finding out where/how the word was used?

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 3rd, 2022, 12:04 pm
by Jonathan Robie
Doug Dinnsen wrote: June 2nd, 2022, 8:41 am Is there a lexicon that classifies all or most Koine and/or Classical Greek words like Louw-Nida does? I believe that Louw-Nida only includes words from the Bible. It would be helpful to know other words that they could have used. For example, Louw-Nida only lists one word with the meaning, "to cause to be large" μεγαλύνω. It would be helpful to know what other synonyms an author could have possibly used. It would be especially helpful if they used the same lexical domain schema as Louw-Nida.
We will soon be adding word senses to this dataset:

https://github.com/Clear-Bible/macula-greek/

We are using data from Louw & Nida, a group at SIL classified each instance by sense.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 3rd, 2022, 2:02 pm
by RandallButh
There is a methodological problem with using only NT data as a base: it does not represent a full cross-section of normal, common language use in the society.

For example, a "NT" dictionary will list "yellow" as θειώδης, but a little kid would say ξανθός. That skewing is not addressed in most NT dictionaries, but BDAG sometimes has corrective hints.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 4th, 2022, 12:51 pm
by Jonathan Robie
RandallButh wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 2:02 pm There is a methodological problem with using only NT data as a base: it does not represent a full cross-section of normal, common language use in the society.

For example, a "NT" dictionary will list "yellow" as θειώδης, but a little kid would say ξανθός. That skewing is not addressed in most NT dictionaries, but BDAG sometimes has corrective hints.
True, but I need to work with existing datasets. If someone wants to tag New Testament instances and identify senses in, say, BrillDAG, I'd be happy to use that dataset. Or if there's a better dataset you know of, I'd like to know about it.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 4th, 2022, 1:19 pm
by RandallButh
I sympathize, Jonathan.

The issue of the wider 1st-2nd CE language only needs to be articulated because of the tendency for people to look for the coin under the streetlight.
And then people become complacent because "they already have adequate tools." Fortunately, most of our sources are becoming more and more digitized. I've even got a back-organized Eng-Greek from Accordance sources, plus some notes, but it is a long long way from potential publication.

Re: Lexical classification resource

Posted: June 4th, 2022, 6:07 pm
by Jonathan Robie
RandallButh wrote: June 4th, 2022, 1:19 pm I sympathize, Jonathan.

The issue of the wider 1st-2nd CE language only needs to be articulated because of the tendency for people to look for the coin under the streetlight.
And then people become complacent because "they already have adequate tools." Fortunately, most of our sources are becoming more and more digitized. I've even got a back-organized Eng-Greek from Accordance sources, plus some notes, but it is a long long way from potential publication.
I think we need better tools. And integrating with other data sources is one of the things these tools should do. So far, we have released only the datasets, and only part of that. One of the things these tools can do is make it easier for researchers to create new datasets.