Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
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Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
Does anyone know where I can find information on how Katharevousa is pronounced? Tables, books, Youtube, recordings ...
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
If Greek orthography helps, it's: καθαρεύουσα.
Wikitionary lists the IPA as: [kaθaˈɾɛvusa], which implies a syllable structure like: ka-tha-RE-vu-sa.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%C ... F%83%CE%B1
Wikitionary lists the IPA as: [kaθaˈɾɛvusa], which implies a syllable structure like: ka-tha-RE-vu-sa.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%C ... F%83%CE%B1
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
SIL International
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Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
The same as the speakers own dialect.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
I wanted to know how to pronounce the language, not the name. I'm curious about how similar / different it is to Buthian pronunciation.MAubrey wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 2:55 pm If Greek orthography helps, it's: καθαρεύουσα.
Wikitionary lists the IPA as: [kaθaˈɾɛvusa], which implies a syllable structure like: ka-tha-RE-vu-sa.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%C ... F%83%CE%B1
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
So the pronunciation does not distinguish ἡμεῖς / ὑμεῖς, rough / smooth breathing, etc?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
Ah!
Sorry. My bad. It's the same as Demotic/Modern Greek. The differences between Demotic and Katharevousa were primarily lexical/morphological. As far as I'm aware, they was never a difference pronunciation.
All the pronunciation changes had already happened before the "language question."
No breathing marks at all (no initial 'h' ever).
Five vowel system.
Fricatives instead of aspirated stops (th vs. tʰ).
Etc.
Sorry. My bad. It's the same as Demotic/Modern Greek. The differences between Demotic and Katharevousa were primarily lexical/morphological. As far as I'm aware, they was never a difference pronunciation.
All the pronunciation changes had already happened before the "language question."
No breathing marks at all (no initial 'h' ever).
Five vowel system.
Fricatives instead of aspirated stops (th vs. tʰ).
Etc.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
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Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
Just like Modern Greek. Think of it like pronouncing Shakespeare: you'd do it either with your own accent or with a prestige accent (e.g. stage RP). The Buthian approach would be to reconstruct the "original pronunciation" (OP) and use that. This has actually been done a few times; it makes some puns easier to appreciate.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 4:52 pm I wanted to know how to pronounce the language, not the name. I'm curious about how similar / different it is to Buthian pronunciation.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
(Thank you, David Crystal!)Stephen Carlson wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 7:05 pmJust like Modern Greek. Think of it like pronouncing Shakespeare: you'd do it either with your own accent or with a prestige accent (e.g. stage RP). The Buthian approach would be to reconstruct the "original pronunciation" (OP) and use that. This has actually been done a few times; it makes some puns easier to appreciate.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 4:52 pm I wanted to know how to pronounce the language, not the name. I'm curious about how similar / different it is to Buthian pronunciation.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
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Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
Only three Modern Greek dialects retain the upsilon as in the Restored Koine pronunciation (ie have not merged it to /i/) - Tsakonian, the Maniot dialect, and the Old Athenian enclave dialects. Younger speakers receive education in the standard 5 vowel pronunciation (rather than their dialectical 6 vowel system). Buth mentions from time time that the restored pronunciation of upsilon sounds dialectical. These are the dialects the restored pronunciation sounds like. The ου / υ variant that we see in the manuscripts of the Apocalyse is also in the variation between dialects.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 4:54 pmSo the pronunciation does not distinguish ἡμεῖς / ὑμεῖς, rough / smooth breathing, etc?
In case you were wondering, what was an eta in Koine, has in some words in some dialects become epsilon. That is to say, that there have been two different tracks to Modern Greek. The upsilon has a wholesale change or retention (subject to differentiations between organic development and interdialectical borrowing and early ου / υ interaction both lexical and morphological) and Koine eta generally becomes /i/, but in some (not so common) cases becomes epsilon.
In other words, there are two tyoes of dialects in Modern Greek, the social / literary dialects - demotic and katharevousa, and regional dialects. You will find the Koine pronunciation in the regional dialects if you strain and mix them.
No spiritus asper in any Modern pronunciations so far as I'm aware.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Pronunciation of Katharevousa?
Interesting details, Stephen! I see a good writeup of this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Modern_Greek
Greek Dialect Vowel Systems, Vowel Dispersion Theory, and Sociolinguistic Typology, Journal of Greek Linguistics 9(1):165-182 · June 2009.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Modern_Greek
Here's a paper on the vowel systems in various modern Greek dialects that looks particularly good:A highly archaic feature shared by Tsakonian, the Maniot dialect, and the Old Athenian enclave dialects, is the divergent treatment of historical /y/ (<υ>). While this sound merged to /i/ everywhere else, these dialects have /u/ instead (e.g. [ˈksulo] vs. standard [ˈksilo] 'wood').
Greek Dialect Vowel Systems, Vowel Dispersion Theory, and Sociolinguistic Typology, Journal of Greek Linguistics 9(1):165-182 · June 2009.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/