Oral Latin/Greek

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James Spinti
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Oral Latin/Greek

Post by James Spinti »

OK, not really Greek, but this is about teaching spoken Latin with a reference to an Attic-Greek-speaking person. Possibly of interest:
https://psyche.co/ideas/speaking-latin- ... e-classics

What is noteworthy is that the person is a professor at Oxford! He started out learning Latin orally, but got sidetracked into the grammatical method. The article is full of quotations from scholars in the 1800s and a bit earlier decrying the loss of oral Latin.

I suspect Barry will enjoy this : )

Enjoy!
Proofreading and copyediting of ancient Near Eastern and biblical studies monographs
Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

I actually saw this and posted the link to textkit, but not here. Yes, I thought it quite interesting, not the least because it seemed implicitly to recommend a blended approach, which is something I try to use in my classrooms. My view is that we prepare students to read ancient authors, and "best practices" all need to be aimed toward that goal.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Stephen Carlson
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Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Stephen Carlson »

There’s an interesting recent post by the Patrologist pointing out that the grammar-translation teachers seem to be more open to mixing and matching techniques than the communicative approaches teachers. https://thepatrologist.com/2021/09/13/w ... olk-jerks/ The argument seems to be that, even so, it is still mixing gall and honey. I’m not sure what to make of this.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Stephen Carlson wrote: September 15th, 2021, 4:21 pm There’s an interesting recent post by the Patrologist pointing out that the grammar-translation teachers seem to be more open to mixing and matching techniques than the communicative approaches teachers. https://thepatrologist.com/2021/09/13/w ... olk-jerks/ The argument seems to be that, even so, it is still mixing gall and honey. I’m not sure what to make of this.
I know, odd, isn't it? The favorite text for "communicative approach" teachers in Latin is Øerburg's Lingua Latina, and that's what I'm using for my beginning classes now. As well as large texts for reading, he also includes a "grammatica Latina" section which is helpful those of us raised on grammar -translation approach, and supplements the readings with a systematic layout, which some students really appreciate. English classes teach grammar regularly. Most modern language teachers include grammar as appropriate in their classes to help the students along. So this either my way or the high way fanatical attitude of some of these CA converts is nearly incomprehensible to me.

And that doesn't mean you don't see similar reactions from some G/T advocates!
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Stephen Carlson
Posts: 3350
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
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Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Stephen Carlson »

When I learned Swedish taught to immigrants in Sweden, there was a lot of grammar instruction. The first 8 weeks or so were admittedly in English to get us up to speed, but then in Swedish thereafter. And this is in a program that emphasized listening and speaking in daily communication.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Seumas Macdonald
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Joined: June 17th, 2013, 3:14 am
Location: Sydney, Aus

Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Seumas Macdonald »

I'm not sure that my point is that G/T teachers are more open to mixing and matching, so much as that G/T teachers think of communicative methods as one option, not as a totally fundamental shift in how they ought to approach language teaching.

It's also fair to say that the number of communicative teachers who are hardline, "no grammar ever in my classrooms" is relatively small. Almost everyone I know who is practising communicative approaches would say that they teach grammar as and when appropriate, just not as the main vehicle of instruction.
Seumas Macdonald, Ph.D.
Sydney, Australia
Barry Hofstetter
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Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Seumas Macdonald wrote: September 16th, 2021, 2:02 am I'm not sure that my point is that G/T teachers are more open to mixing and matching, so much as that G/T teachers think of communicative methods as one option, not as a totally fundamental shift in how they ought to approach language teaching.

It's also fair to say that the number of communicative teachers who are hardline, "no grammar ever in my classrooms" is relatively small. Almost everyone I know who is practising communicative approaches would say that they teach grammar as and when appropriate, just not as the main vehicle of instruction.
Interesting to hear our different anecdotal experiences. I would say that I have come to your latter category. For the field overall, paradigm shifts take time, sometimes get stuck in the clutch. But more and more seem to be coming to a synthesis after the antithesis, and that's a good thing.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Rogelio Toledo Martin
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Joined: September 29th, 2015, 1:04 pm

Re: Oral Latin/Greek

Post by Rogelio Toledo Martin »

Seumas Macdonald wrote: September 16th, 2021, 2:02 am I'm not sure that my point is that G/T teachers are more open to mixing and matching, so much as that G/T teachers think of communicative methods as one option, not as a totally fundamental shift in how they ought to approach language teaching.

It's also fair to say that the number of communicative teachers who are hardline, "no grammar ever in my classrooms" is relatively small. Almost everyone I know who is practising communicative approaches would say that they teach grammar as and when appropriate, just not as the main vehicle of instruction.


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