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Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 19th, 2016, 9:57 pm
by Stephen Hughes
Jonathan Robie wrote:
Alan Bunning wrote:ειωντο, (what was the root? εαω?)
I would think so.
ιάομαι (smooth breathing)

I was expecting to be challenged over the augment in my analysis. It is also possible / probable the ει in that ειωντο was a spelling convention for the simple iota, ie. ιωντο beginning with a theoretically lengthened iota.

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 2:09 am
by Stephen Hughes
Alan Bunning wrote:εφνιδος, αίφνίδος (non-diminutive form αἰφνίδιος, but same in meaning?)
The iota here is probably an adjectival marker, rather than a diminutive. The etymology and cognates of this word are not well understood and not extensive.
Alan Bunning wrote:εμμενως, (not sure I like ἐμμενέως here but it would work, other suggestions?)
It is likely that the contracted form is the common one.
Alan Bunning wrote:απανπληθει, παμπληθει (erroneous “α”)
Do you consider ἅπας and πᾶς variants of the same word, or different words? The common suffixes for exaggeration or emphasis are ὁλο-, παν- and τρισ-. I think that the word with the alpha on the front has the same meaning, and is used in the same place that word without is, so it is the same word. Cf. Aluminum and aluminium.

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 8:40 am
by Alan Bunning
Alan Bunning wrote:απανπληθει, παμπληθει (erroneous “α”)
Stephen Huges wrote:Do you consider ἅπας and πᾶς variants of the same word, or different words? The common suffixes for exaggeration or emphasis are ὁλο-, παν- and τρισ-. I think that the word with the alpha on the front has the same meaning, and is used in the same place that word without is, so it is the same word. Cf. Aluminum and aluminium.
Good point! In that case the “α” is not erroneous.

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 9:23 am
by Stephen Carlson
Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Well, for the extra disagreement, it is the first column, fourth line, and the fourth and fifth characters - ΘΝ, or the fourth, fifth and sixth characters - ΕΙΝ (depending on how it is read).
Ah, I see it now. Honestly, I could read it either way. Comfort and Barrett read it as one word: τονειν.

How do the people who do this daily resolve such questions?
If it's ΘΝ then as a nomen sacrum it needs an overline (like the one you see on the next line over ΘC). Since the overline isn't there (and since the theta's tend to be thinner), it's not likely to be ΘΝ.

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 10:07 am
by Stephen Hughes
With respect to your round three, let me say that my reason for starting this thread is to get out of my comfort zone with Greek. Seeing different declensions and alternative conjugations is part of that. The practice of consulting variant readings and considering variant spellings sort of died out in the twentieth century. I want to do it, like I read people doing in the nineteenth century. I'm happy that whatever the format, I can find all the heteroclits easily enough.

Being able to see all the variant declensions and conjugations for a word would expand the borders of my Greek tent.

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 10:17 am
by Stephen Hughes
Stephen Carlson wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Well, for the extra disagreement, it is the first column, fourth line, and the fourth and fifth characters - ΘΝ, or the fourth, fifth and sixth characters - ΕΙΝ (depending on how it is read).
Ah, I see it now. Honestly, I could read it either way. Comfort and Barrett read it as one word: τονειν.

How do the people who do this daily resolve such questions?
If it's ΘΝ then as a nomen sacrum it needs an overline (like the one you see on the next line over ΘC). Since the overline isn't there (and since the theta's tend to be thinner), it's not likely to be ΘΝ.
Alan, may I ask, how did you classify ειν?

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 10:52 am
by Alan Bunning
Stephen Hughes wrote:Alan, may I ask, how did you classify ειν?
I am undecided what to do with it. Grenfell and Hunt have it as one word "τονειν" and then say it could be a corruption of "τον θν". Does "τονειν" have a meaning of its own?

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 11:58 am
by Jonathan Robie
Stephen Carlson wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Well, for the extra disagreement, it is the first column, fourth line, and the fourth and fifth characters - ΘΝ, or the fourth, fifth and sixth characters - ΕΙΝ (depending on how it is read).
Ah, I see it now. Honestly, I could read it either way. Comfort and Barrett read it as one word: τονειν.

How do the people who do this daily resolve such questions?
If it's ΘΝ then as a nomen sacrum it needs an overline (like the one you see on the next line over ΘC). Since the overline isn't there (and since the theta's tend to be thinner), it's not likely to be ΘΝ.
p9-verso.jpg
p9-verso.jpg (201.3 KiB) Viewed 1015 times
The transcription in the New Testament Manuscript Reading Room says this:
ουδεις ποποτε τ[εθεαται]
τον ειν εαν αγαπ̣[ωμεν] [αλλη]-
λους ο θς ε ημιν [μενει] [και] [η] [α]-
[γαπη] α̣υ̣του τ̣[ετελειωμενη]-
The image at the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts is very clear, but protected. You can view it there.

Grenfell and Hunt's The Oxyrhynchus Papyrii goes with τονειν, see this page (but also see the notes on the page):
oxyrhynchuspapy00huntgoog_0020.jpg
oxyrhynchuspapy00huntgoog_0020.jpg (219.82 KiB) Viewed 1019 times

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 20th, 2016, 12:05 pm
by Stephen Hughes
Alan Bunning wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Alan, may I ask, how did you classify ειν?
I am undecided what to do with it. Grenfell and Hunt have it as one word "τονειν" and then say it could be a corruption of "τον θν". Does "τονειν" have a meaning of its own?
There is no such word that I or LSJ knows of.

Re: Concordance including all the versions?

Posted: January 21st, 2016, 4:53 pm
by Alan Bunning
I did not get a lot of feedback from round 3, so in most cases I guess I will probably have to assume that the lexical entries in BDAG allow for more declensions than originally specified.

So now I am moving on to round 4, which may be the final round. Similar to round 1, the 1st column contains the word in question, the 2nd column contains a word that it might be trying to be (assuming it might be a spelling error), the 3rd column is the manuscript where the word is found, and the forth column is the book, chapter, and verse. For this round, I will assume that the suggested word in the second column is the correct choice unless something is said to the contrary, so please speak up if you know of an alternative word. (But I would definitely like someone to comment on what σεπακοντα is supposed to be.)

δερματιαν, δαλματιαν, GA-02, 16:04:10, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/1604.htm#160410
διελωθησαν, διεσωθησαν, GA-032, 1:14:36, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0114.htm#011436
διερησσε, διαρρησσων, GA-05, 3:08:29, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0308.htm#030829
δυναμος, δυναμενος, GA-04, 9:03:21, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0903.htm#090321
εκενλευσεν, εκελευσεν, GA-04, 1:27:58, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0127.htm#012758
εκτηρμων, οικτιρμων, TM-62325, 6:12:01, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0612.htm#061201
εκχεως, εκχεω, GA-02, 5:02:18, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0502.htm#050218
ενεβρισαμενος, ενβριμησαμενος, GA-05, 2:01:43, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0201.htm#020143
ενελογειτο, ελλογαται, GA-01, 6:05:13, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0605.htm#060513
εξαπειλαν, εξαπεστειλαν, GA-05, 3:20:11, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0320.htm#032011
εξηρτηνται, εξεστη, GA-032, 2:03:21, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0203.htm#020321
εξοσαν, εχουσιν, GA-01, 27:04:08, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/2704.htm#270408
επιγνοις, επιγνως, GA-01, 3:01:04, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0301.htm#030104
επληθη, εβληθη, GA-05, 4:15:06, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0415.htm#041506
εσειγα, εσιωπα, GA-05, 0.093762, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0214.htm#021461
εσταιρε, εταιρε, GA-04, 1:26:50, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0126.htm#012650
εφαγενους, εφαγον, GA-04, 1:12:04, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0112.htm#011204
εφαυμασαν, εφοβηθησαν, GA-04, 1:09:08, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0109.htm#010908
καθηνος, καθημενος, GA-04, 27:06:02, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/2706.htm#270602
καθισπαντες, καθιστανοντες, GA-01, 5:17:15, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0517.htm#051715
καλαμονος, καλαμος, GA-P47, 27:11:01, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/2711.htm#271101
κληρονος, κληρονομος, GA-03, 1:21:38, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0121.htm#012138
κολμων, κολπον, GA-05, 3:06:38, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0306.htm#030638
λυχλον, λυχνος, GA-05, 4:05:35, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0405.htm#040535
μυατιζων, μυωπαζων, GA-P72, 22:01:09, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/2201.htm#220109
παθειναι, παρειναι, GA-04, 3:11:42, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0311.htm#031142
προσεως, προθεσεως, GA-04, 1:12:04, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0112.htm#011204
σεπακοντα, τεσσερακοντα, GA-04, 5:07:30, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0507.htm#050730
συντησεν, συνηντησεν, GA-04, 19:07:10, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/1907.htm#190710
τρυπημαλαις, τρυπηματος, GA-04, 1:19:24, http://cntr.t15.org/collation/0119.htm#011924