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Text Comparison. - Same/Similar English Words - Two Greek Words - One a Noun - One a Verb

Posted: December 2nd, 2023, 8:01 pm
by Todd
I have been meditating on a couple of similar passages in the NT.

Rom 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal (ἀνακαινώσει) of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. 

Eph 4:23  and to be renewed (ἀνανεοῦσθαι) in the spirit of your minds,

The Greek word translated as "renewal" in Romans is a noun.

The Greek word translated "renewed" in Ephesians is a verb.

Yet the English translation makes it appear as if both are verbs.

I guess my question is, how can renewal be both a noun and a verb? Why is it translated this way? I understand they are two different words in Greek, but in English, "be renewed" and "by renewal" both show action and can be used interchangeably.

Not sure if this question makes sense. But the instruction from the verses, for me anyway, is only clear in the Ephesians passage because there is something to do. I'm not going into detail about the to-do part because I think it violates the board policy. But, I'm not sure how a person is "to do" the noun in Romans!

Re: Text Comparison. - Same/Similar English Words - Two Greek Words - One a Noun - One a Verb

Posted: December 2nd, 2023, 8:30 pm
by Jason Hare
Todd wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 8:01 pm I have been meditating on a couple of similar passages in the NT.

Rom 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal (ἀνακαινώσει) of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. 

Eph 4:23  and to be renewed (ἀνανεοῦσθαι) in the spirit of your minds,

The Greek word translated as "renewal" in Romans is a noun.

The Greek word translated "renewed" in Ephesians is a verb.

Yet the English translation makes it appear as if both are verbs.

I guess my question is, how can renewal be both a noun and a verb? Why is it translated this way? I understand they are two different words in Greek, but in English, "be renewed" and "by renewal" both show action and can be used interchangeably.

Not sure if this question makes sense. But the instruction from the verses, for me anyway, is only clear in the Ephesians passage because there is something to do. I'm not going into detail about the to-do part because I think it violates the board policy. But, I'm not sure how a person is "to do" the noun in Romans!
“Renewal” is the noun form of “renew.” Why do you think it’s not a noun?

Re: Text Comparison. - Same/Similar English Words - Two Greek Words - One a Noun - One a Verb

Posted: December 2nd, 2023, 11:30 pm
by Todd
Renewal seems like an action, i.e. process. I guess I just need to think about this more:)

Re: Text Comparison. - Same/Similar English Words - Two Greek Words - One a Noun - One a Verb

Posted: December 3rd, 2023, 5:37 am
by Eeli Kaikkonen
I guess that in all languages there's a way to refer to a process with a noun which oftentimes is directly related to the similar verb. In English think about for example "to run" and "a run". The first is a verb, the second is a noun. The grammatical classification or form is completely different than the actual thing it refers to.

Re: Text Comparison. - Same/Similar English Words - Two Greek Words - One a Noun - One a Verb

Posted: December 3rd, 2023, 6:50 am
by Jason Hare
It’s about the function of the word in the sentence. A verb normally takes a subject and often completes itself with some kind of adjunct.
The boy hits a ball.
The subject or object of a verb is expressed as a noun.
The boy earned three hits in the game.
In the case of these words: “The renewal of the building project has begun.” Versus: “We have renewed the building project.”

Nouns often indicate actions. To define verbs as action words is a mistake in definitions.

Re: Text Comparison. - Same/Similar English Words - Two Greek Words - One a Noun - One a Verb

Posted: December 3rd, 2023, 6:44 pm
by Todd
Thank everyone for helping me understand this better.