Origen: ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.

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Stirling Bartholomew
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Origen: ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » July 12th, 2020, 5:21 pm

Origenes Dialogus cum Heraclide
Section 5, line 16

Μόνη ἡ ἐκκλησία <παρὰ> πάσας τὰς αἱρέσεις ἀρνουμένας τὴν ἀνάστασιν ὁμολογεῖ ἀνάστασιν νεκροῦ σώματος, ὡς ἀκολούθου ὄντος τῷ τὴν ἀπαρχὴν ἐγηγέρθαι ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.

Not wanting to further intrude on the other thread[1] ... here we see a prepositional object without an article followed by same word with an article between τοῦ ... ἐγείρεσθαι.




[1] viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5199&start=30
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C. Stirling Bartholomew

Stephen Carlson
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Re: Origen: ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.

Post by Stephen Carlson » July 12th, 2020, 9:22 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 5:21 pm
Not wanting to further intrude on the other thread[1] ... here we see a prepositional object without an article followed by same word with an article between τοῦ ... ἐγείρεσθαι.
And?
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Stirling Bartholomew
Posts: 1104
Joined: August 9th, 2012, 4:19 pm

Re: Origen: ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » July 13th, 2020, 1:48 pm

Origenes Dialogus cum Heraclide
Section 5, line 16

Μόνη ἡ ἐκκλησία <παρὰ> πάσας τὰς αἱρέσεις ἀρνουμένας τὴν ἀνάστασιν ὁμολογεῖ ἀνάστασιν νεκροῦ σώματος, ὡς ἀκολούθου ὄντος τῷ τὴν ἀπαρχὴν ἐγηγέρθαι ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.
Why isn't there an article in both places? Are not νεκρῶν and νεκροὺς coreferential and currently accessible in the discourse? What would explain the presence or absence of the article? One is connected with a preposition the other has the article. Can we explain this? Is the answer so obvious that I am simply not noticing it?
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C. Stirling Bartholomew

Stephen Carlson
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Re: Origen: ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.

Post by Stephen Carlson » July 13th, 2020, 7:47 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 1:48 pm
Origenes Dialogus cum Heraclide
Section 5, line 16

Μόνη ἡ ἐκκλησία <παρὰ> πάσας τὰς αἱρέσεις ἀρνουμένας τὴν ἀνάστασιν ὁμολογεῖ ἀνάστασιν νεκροῦ σώματος, ὡς ἀκολούθου ὄντος τῷ τὴν ἀπαρχὴν ἐγηγέρθαι ἐκ νεκρῶν τοῦ τοὺς νεκροὺς ἐγείρεσθαι.
Why isn't there an article in both places? Are not νεκρῶν and νεκροὺς coreferential and currently accessible in the discourse? What would explain the presence or absence of the article? One is connected with a preposition the other has the article. Can we explain this? Is the answer so obvious that I am simply not noticing it?
Thanks for the clarification. There are lots of possibilities and the real reason may be overdetermined among the proposals we surveyed in the other thread:
  • The former is first mention; the latter is anaphoric.
  • The former is qualitative; the latter is definite.
  • The former is prominent; the latter is not.
  • The former is the object of a proper preposition; the latter is a subject (of an infinitive).
  • The former may involve intertextuality; the latter does not.
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

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