timothy_p_mcmahon wrote:Professor Conrad:
Love your description of the MP imperative as "consent to such a process and actively pursue it." Would you view in similar terms the 3rd-person imperative? I'm thinking of a text such as Colossians 2:16...
Μὴ οὖν τις ὑμᾶς κρινέτω ἐν βρώσει καὶ ἐν πόσει ἢ ἐν μέρει ἑορτῆς ἢ νεομηνίας ἢ σαββάτων
Is this (A) a command issued to the general public (more like a wish) not to judge the Colossians; (B) a command to the Colossians not to permit anyone to judge them (i.e., if anyone judges them they should refute it or at least not allow the judgment to affect their actions); (C) a command to the Colossians not to act in such a way as to invite anyone else to judge them (not to give anyone an occasion to judge them by acting improperly in this regard); or (D) something else altogether?
It seems to me that this question -- insofar as it's not stuck on opposed conceptions about the voice of φερώμεθα, on which matter there's no agreement -- has moved to a secondary level that may belong elsewhere in the forum, namely, How should we understand the intent of imperatives and adequately convert them to English or another target language, especially when they are not straightforward 2 sg. or pl. active exhortations to perform an action?
A question that recurs on B-Greek from time to time regards the common English equivalents of the first person hortatory subjunctive expressions (" let us xxx ... ") and third-person sg. or pl. imperatives ("let him/her/it/them xxx ... "). The question raised has been, "Are we really giving permission to the person or persons addressed to act? Is that what "let" means?" I can only speak for two or three languages I know something about, but German uses the auxiliary "lass/en" just as English uses "let" in such expressions, and so French uses "laissez" and even Koine Greek sometimes uses ἄφες and ἄφετε with an infinitive.
I think that there's a range of possible semantic force to these imperative expressions. With regard to the first-person hortatory expressions, Greek ἀρχώμεθα or English "Let's begin" can, I think, run the gamut from meaning, "If you want my advice, we should start" to an indignant, "Enough of this shillyshallying! Stop talking and get started!" I think the same is true of the third-person imperatives. When Paul writes in 1 Cor. 14:34 αἱ γυναῖκες ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις σιγάτωσαν, I think he is laying down a rule to be obeyed: telling women in the the congregation at Corinth that they must keep silent in their gatherings and also telling the men of that congregation not put up with women speaking in those gatherings. It could be argued that this is not a rule, but only a suggestion or a piece of advice offered. I interpret it to mean he's laying down a rule.
On the other hand, I think that the force of μὴ ὑμᾶς κρινέτω in Col 2:16 is laying down a rule for the congregation rather than for the potential troublemakers who would find fault with the congregation for their practice with regard to their ritual actions. That is to say, I think that the force is "You are not to listen to anyone who finds fault with your behavior in these matters1"
Another of these third-person imperatives that's been questioned on B-Greek heretofore is how we are to understand the petitions of the Lord's Prayer, Matt. 6:10 ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου, ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς· These cannot really be understood as addressed to "God's kingdom" or "God's will" as direct commands, as if "the kingdom" and "God's will" were persons who could obey a command. Rather they are petitions, expressions of the speaker's fervent desire that these hopes may come to consummation: that God's royal will may become supreme and all people should obey it.
Perhaps this is simply obvious: CONTEXT here as generally governs the interpretation of particular instances of these hortatory first-person subjunctives and third-person imperatives. They may in particular cases range from suggestions to offering advice, to strong exhortation, to laying down absolute rules and prohibitions.What it may be in a particular case will be a matter of how the reader understands the context. As the phrase in Mark's gospel puts it, ὁ ἀναγινώσκων νοείτω.
Finally, to bring this discussion of interpretation of imperatives back to its starting-point, I think that all middle-passive imperative forms call for a positive behavioral response by the person or persons addressed, something more, I think, than telling them, "Sit still and wait for something to happen."