Page 1 of 1

Ephesians 1:4 "we are" or "we should be"?

Posted: August 17th, 2023, 3:06 pm
by Brian Phillips
In Ephesians 1:4, where do I go (text, tool, resource, or this forum) to find out why most translators translate "εἶναι ἡμᾶς" as "we should be" or "we would be"?

It seems to me the phrase would best be "just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, we are holy and blameless in his sight."

“καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ,”
(Ephesians 1:4 GNT28-T)

Re: Ephesians 1:4 "we are" or "we should be"?

Posted: August 18th, 2023, 3:31 am
by Jason Hare
lambano wrote: August 17th, 2023, 3:06 pm In Ephesians 1:4, where do I go (text, tool, resource, or this forum) to find out why most translators translate "εἶναι ἡμᾶς" as "we should be" or "we would be"?

It seems to me the phrase would best be "just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, we are holy and blameless in his sight."

“καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ,”
(Ephesians 1:4 GNT28-T)
The infinitive shows intention or purpose in this clause. Why did he choose us? He chose us to be holy etc. Another way to express this is with a subjunctive—he chose us that we might / should be. This isn’t odd by any stretch. It certainly doesn't say “we are holy,” which would be in the indicative.

Re: Ephesians 1:4 "we are" or "we should be"?

Posted: August 18th, 2023, 5:21 am
by Brian Phillips
Jason Hare wrote: August 18th, 2023, 3:31 am
lambano wrote: August 17th, 2023, 3:06 pm In Ephesians 1:4, where do I go (text, tool, resource, or this forum) to find out why most translators translate "εἶναι ἡμᾶς" as "we should be" or "we would be"?

It seems to me the phrase would best be "just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, we are holy and blameless in his sight."

“καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ,”
(Ephesians 1:4 GNT28-T)
The infinitive shows intention or purpose in this clause. Why did he choose us? He chose us to be holy etc. Another way to express this is with a subjunctive—he chose us that we might / should be. This isn’t odd by any stretch. It certainly doesn't say “we are holy,” which would be in the indicative.
Okay, thanks. It took me a bit, but that makes sense.