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Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho (128.4)

Posted: August 28th, 2011, 4:54 pm
by DanielBarnes
Hello to everyone,

I have been trying to wrap my mind around the last part of the following passage from Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho (128.4):

καὶ ὅτι δύναμις αὕτη, ἣν καὶ θεὸν καλεῖ ὁ προφητικὸς Λόγος, <ὡς> διὰ πολλῶν ὡσαύτως ἀποδέδεικται, καὶ ἄγγελον, οὐχ ὡς τὸ τοῦ ἡλίου φῶς ὀνόματι μόνον ἀριθμεῖται, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀριθμῷ ἕτερόν τί ἐστι, καὶ <περὶ τούτου> ἐν τοῖς προειρημένοις διὰ βραχέων τὸν λόγον ἐξήτασα, εἰπὼν τὴν δύναμιν ταύτην γεγεννῆσθαι ἀπὸ τοῦ πατρός, δυνάμει καὶ βουλῇ αὐτοῦ, ἀλλ᾽ οὐ κατὰ ἀποτομήν, ὡς ἀπομεριζομένης τῆς τοῦ πατρὸς οὐσίας, ὁποῖα τὰ ἄλλα πάντα μεριζόμενα καὶ τεμνόμενα οὐ τὰ αὐτά ἐστιν ἃ καὶ πρὶν τμηθῆναι·
-Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho 128.4 (ed. Miroslav Marcovich)

This passage has been translated by Thomas Falls as follows:

It has also been shown at length that this power which the prophetic word also calls God and Angel not only is numbered as different by its name (as is the light of the sun), but is something distinct in real number, I have already briefly discussed. For I stated that this power was generated from the Father, by His power and will, but not by abscission, as if the substance of the Father were divided; as all other things, once they are divided and severed, are not the same as they were before the division.
-Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho 128.4 (trans. Thomas Falls)

The first and second parts of this passage I have understood as follows:

ὁποῖα τὰ ἄλλα πάντα [ὁποῖα (adj pl neut nom of ὁποῖος); τὰ (article pl neut nom of ὁ); ἄλλα (adj pl neut nom of ἄλλος); πάντα (adj pl neut nom of πᾶς)] = "as all other things".

μεριζόμενα καὶ τεμνόμενα [μεριζόμενα (verb part pres mid nom pl of μερίζω); καὶ (conj); τεμνόμενα (verb part pres mid nom pl of τέμνω)] = "once they are divided and severed".

The part I have been having trouble wrapping my head around is οὐ τὰ αὐτά ἐστιν ἃ καὶ πρὶν τμηθῆναι which Falls translates as "are not the same as they were before the division." I guess my main problem has to do with the 3rd person singular verb ἐστιν when my expectation is that there should be a 3rd person plural (i.e. εἰσιν) to match the referent τὰ ἄλλα πάντα. Understanding the problem to be me rather than the text, I have also thought that it might be associated with ὁποῖα (parsing as a sg fem nom), but I still remain confused. Ultimately I am sure my problems stem from incorrect parsing in addition to failing to understand the syntax here. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho (128.4)

Posted: August 29th, 2011, 2:51 am
by George F Somsel
The part I have been having trouble wrapping my head around is οὐ τὰ αὐτά ἐστιν ἃ καὶ πρὶν τμηθῆναι which Falls translates as "are not the same as they were before the division." I guess my main problem has to do with the 3rd person singular verb ἐστιν when my expectation is that there should be a 3rd person plural (i.e. εἰσιν) to match the referent τὰ ἄλλα πάντα. Understanding the problem to be me rather than the text, I have also thought that it might be associated with ὁποῖα (parsing as a sg fem nom), but I still remain confused. Ultimately I am sure my problems stem from incorrect parsing in addition to failing to understand the syntax here.
It is not a matter of incorrect parsing that is troubling you. It is a matter of syntax. As you note τὰ ἄλλα is pl. It is neuter plural. Note what BDF (Blass-Debrunner-Funk) has to say regarding the syntax here.
133. Perhaps no syntactical peculiarity of Greek is more striking to us than the use of the singular verb with a neuter plural subject (neuter plurals were originally in part feminine singular collectives: Schwyzer I 581f.). The rule appears to have been most strictly followed in Attic (Schwyzer II 607); Homer and Koine are less consistent, while the plural is used exclusively in MGr In the NT (as in the LXX and pap.: Mayser II 3, 28ff.) there is marked diversity, and often in individual instances the MSS diverge. The plural is used for the most part in Herm. (1) The plural is used especially with neuters designating persons (also class., K.–G. I 65), most frequently with ἔθνη, less often with τέκνα and δαιμόνια. (2) The singular, on the contrary, preponderates with words having non-personal meaning (even when a numeral is inserted: ἐὰν γένηται … ἑκατὸν πρόβατα Mt 18:12), (3) and even more so with abstracts and pronouns (ταῦτα, ἅ etc.).—For stereotyped ἴδε, ἰδού, ἄγε used in spite of a plural subject, s. §144.
It is therefore due to a customary Greek construction that a singular verb is used with a neuter plural subject.

Re: Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho (128.4)

Posted: August 29th, 2011, 7:14 pm
by DanielBarnes
Ahhh, something so simple! :oops: That definitely brings it all into focus for me. Thank you so much for answering my first post to this forum! I will not forget this information.