1 John 4:17 - εστιν

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David Lim
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1 John 4:17 - εστιν

Post by David Lim »

[1 John 4] [17] εν τουτω τετελειωται η αγαπη μεθ ημων ινα παρρησιαν εχωμεν εν τη ημερα της κρισεως οτι καθως εκεινος εστιν και ημεις εσμεν εν τω κοσμω τουτω
I am wondering if there is any reason that the present-tense "εστιν" is used instead of "ην", since "καθως εκεινος εστιν εν τω κοσμω τουτω" probably refers to "τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη απεσταλκεν ο θεος εις τον κοσμον" in 1 John 4:9. Does "εστιν" imply that the author was making the statement that "just as the son of God is (now) [in this world], also we are (now) in this world"? Or is it just an emphatic way of portraying the similarity between "the son of God being in this world" and "we being in this world"?
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cwconrad
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Re: 1 John 4:17 - εστιν

Post by cwconrad »

David Lim wrote:
[1 John 4] [17] εν τουτω τετελειωται η αγαπη μεθ ημων ινα παρρησιαν εχωμεν εν τη ημερα της κρισεως οτι καθως εκεινος εστιν και ημεις εσμεν εν τω κοσμω τουτω
I am wondering if there is any reason that the present-tense "εστιν" is used instead of "ην", since "καθως εκεινος εστιν εν τω κοσμω τουτω" probably refers to "τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη απεσταλκεν ο θεος εις τον κοσμον" in 1 John 4:9. Does "εστιν" imply that the author was making the statement that "just as the son of God is (now) [in this world], also we are (now) in this world"? Or is it just an emphatic way of portraying the similarity between "the son of God being in this world" and "we being in this world"?
I suspect that you're making an unnecessary assumption here that ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ τούτῳ should be construed with κάθως ἐκεῖνός ἐστιν rather than sole;y with ἡμεῖς ἐσμεν only. Ordinarily, I think, a word or words that are elliptical appear in the first of grouped clauses rather than in the second. The focal concern of these verses is the consummation or completeness of ἀγάπη, wherein there is no dread or anxiety. I think that κάθως ἐκεῖνός ἐστιν more likely refers to Christ's consummate ἀγάπη and fearlessness, not particularly to his condition in his incarnate state. The writer exhorts his readers to be -- even here in this world -- just as Christ is, i.e. consummate in ἀγάπη and fearlessness.

I just did a quick check on imperfects in 1 John. I found seven instances:

1John 1:1 Ὃ ἦν ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν ἐψηλάφησαν περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς _ 2 καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἐφανερώθη, καὶ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ μαρτυροῦμεν καὶ ἀπαγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν τὴν ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον ἥτις ἦν πρὸς τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἐφανερώθη ἡμῖν _

1John 2:7 Ἀγαπητοί, οὐκ ἐντολὴν καινὴν γράφω ὑμῖν ἀλλ᾿ ἐντολὴν παλαιὰν ἣν εἴχετε ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς· ἡ ἐντολὴ ἡ παλαιά ἐστιν ὁ λόγος ὃν ἠκούσατε.

1John 2:19 ἐξ ἡμῶν ἐξῆλθαν ἀλλ᾿ οὐκ ἦσαν ἐξ ἡμῶν· εἰ γὰρ ἐξ ἡμῶν ἦσαν, μεμενήκεισαν ἂν μεθ᾿ ἡμῶν· ἀλλ᾿ ἵνα φανερωθῶσιν ὅτι οὐκ εἰσὶν πάντες ἐξ ἡμῶν.

1John 3:12 οὐ καθὼς Κάϊν ἐκ τοῦ πονηροῦ ἦν καὶ ἔσφαξεν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ· καὶ χάριν τίνος ἔσφαξεν αὐτόν; ὅτι τὰ ἔργα αὐτοῦ πονηρὰ ἦν τὰ δὲ τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτοῦ δίκαια.

You can make of that what you wish; I checked simply because it's my impression that the present tense is the "workhorse" of this author's parenetic style. Where he uses the imperfect, he does so to underscore the ongoing continuation of a state from the past into the present: what was always true and continues to be true.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
David Lim
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Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: 1 John 4:17 - εστιν

Post by David Lim »

cwconrad wrote:
David Lim wrote:
[1 John 4] [17] εν τουτω τετελειωται η αγαπη μεθ ημων ινα παρρησιαν εχωμεν εν τη ημερα της κρισεως οτι καθως εκεινος εστιν και ημεις εσμεν εν τω κοσμω τουτω
I am wondering if there is any reason that the present-tense "εστιν" is used instead of "ην", since "καθως εκεινος εστιν εν τω κοσμω τουτω" probably refers to "τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη απεσταλκεν ο θεος εις τον κοσμον" in 1 John 4:9. Does "εστιν" imply that the author was making the statement that "just as the son of God is (now) [in this world], also we are (now) in this world"? Or is it just an emphatic way of portraying the similarity between "the son of God being in this world" and "we being in this world"?
I suspect that you're making an unnecessary assumption here that ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ τούτῳ should be construed with κάθως ἐκεῖνός ἐστιν rather than sole;y with ἡμεῖς ἐσμεν only. Ordinarily, I think, a word or words that are elliptical appear in the first of grouped clauses rather than in the second. The focal concern of these verses is the consummation or completeness of ἀγάπη, wherein there is no dread or anxiety. I think that κάθως ἐκεῖνός ἐστιν more likely refers to Christ's consummate ἀγάπη and fearlessness, not particularly to his condition in his incarnate state. The writer exhorts his readers to be -- even here in this world -- just as Christ is, i.e. consummate in ἀγάπη and fearlessness.

I just did a quick check on imperfects in 1 John. I found seven instances:

[...]

You can make of that what you wish; I checked simply because it's my impression that the present tense is the "workhorse" of this author's parenetic style. Where he uses the imperfect, he does so to underscore the ongoing continuation of a state from the past into the present: what was always true and continues to be true.
I see, thanks! So you think that "καθως εκεινος εστιν" is not modified by "εν τω κοσμω τουτω"? I did think that the context did suggest otherwise, but it is interesting if it is not a valid assumption since many translations also seem to assume the same.
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cwconrad
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Re: 1 John 4:17 - εστιν

Post by cwconrad »

David Lim wrote:I see, thanks! So you think that "καθως εκεινος εστιν" is not modified by "εν τω κοσμω τουτω"? I did think that the context did suggest otherwise, but it is interesting if it is not a valid assumption since many translations also seem to assume the same.
Yes, I did mean what I wrote. We may also be interpreting the translations in different ways. I see the κάθως ἐκεινος οὕτως ἡμεῖς ... analogy as underscoring the perfect love without fear which, as I read this, is attributed by the author to Christ and to the community addressed by the author. You are evidently looking at a different point of likeness between Christ and the community of believers addressed by the author.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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