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How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek?

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 12:18 pm
by David Ting
I would like to translate "My commandment in righteous". I have come to two translations and don't know which one is right.

δικαιη ἡ ἐντολη μου.
ἡ ἐντολη μου ἐστιν δικαιη.

Your help is much appreciated.

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 3:08 pm
by Mark Lightman
χαιρε Δαυιδ,

ἡ εντολη μου δικαια εστιν,

δικαιον το εμον προσταγμα,

εστιν δικαιοσυνη μονον εν τῃ μου εντολῃ.

δικαιως μεν ουν κελευω.

εντελλομαι μεν, δικαιῶ δε.

ερρωσο, ω φιλε μου.

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 7:00 pm
by timothy_p_mcmahon
Sounds like an old Machen made-up sentence I recall from my long-ago youth.

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 7:06 pm
by Jason Hare
Mark Lightman wrote:χαιρε Δαυιδ,

ἡ εντολη μου δικαια εστιν,

δικαιον το εμον προσταγμα,

εστιν δικαιοσυνη μονον εν τῃ μου εντολῃ.

δικαιως μεν ουν κελευω.

εντελλομαι μεν, δικαιῶ δε.

ερρωσο, ω φιλε μου.
Wouldn't it be nice to put the accents in for a beginner? Most people need them when they read Greek.
ἡ ἐντολή μου δίκαιά ἐστιν.

δίκαιον τὸ ἐμὸν πρόσταγμα.

ἔστιν δικαιοσύνη μόνον ἐν τῇ μου ἐντολῇ.

δικαίως μὲν οὖν κελεύω.

ἐτέλλομαι μέν, δικαιῶ δέ.
Here are accents on Marcus's words, for those who need them (as I always have).

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 8:31 pm
by David Ting
Dear all,

Thank you for your explanation. The actual text to be translated is actually "My commandment is righteous," not "My commandment in righteous." Sorry for the mistake.

The closest one that I can understand (I am a beginner learning Greek for a few weeks) is

ἡ εντολη μου δικαια εστιν

Why it is not ἡ εντολη μου εστιν δικαια? Is there any particular rule for the placement of the present indicative ἐστιν and the adjective δικαια? Parallel to English, I tend to think of "is righteous" as εστιν δικαια.

I read from the textbook that adjective used in the predicate position makes an assertion about the noun. The example given is ἀγαθος ὁ λογος, which means "The word is good." Parallel to this, is δικαια ἡ ἐντολη μου a valid translation also?

Jason, my lecturer ignore accent in his teaching.

Thank you for bearing with me.

David

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 8:41 pm
by Jason Hare
david.healed wrote:Dear all,

Thank you for your explanation. The actual text to be translated is actually "My commandment is righteous," not "My commandment in righteous." Sorry for the mistake.

The closest one that I can understand (I am a beginner learning Greek for a few weeks) is

ἡ εντολη μου δικαια εστιν

Why it is not ἡ εντολη μου εστιν δικαια? Is there any particular rule for the placement of the present indicative ἐστιν and the adjective δικαια? Parallel to English, I tend to think of "is righteous" as εστιν δικαια.

I read from the textbook that adjective used in the predicate position makes an assertion about the noun. The example given is ἀγαθος ὁ λογος, which means "The word is good." Parallel to this, is δικαια ἡ ἐντολη μου a valid translation also?

Jason, my lecturer ignore accent in his teaching.

Thank you for bearing with me.

David
Word order is more fluid in Greek. It's pretty standard, though, to place the predicate adjective before the verb εἰμί. That's how we learn it as we are introduced to Greek. Nothing particularly wrong with ἡ εντολη μου εστιν δικαια, but you'd probably look for a reason that this word order would be used. It just feels better to put it the other way. You'll get used to word order things as you read more Greek.

Don't forget that Greek isn't English. ;) Not everything needs to parallel.

Where are you studying Greek?

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 9:39 pm
by David Lim
david.healed wrote:ἡ εντολη μου δικαια εστιν

Why it is not ἡ εντολη μου εστιν δικαια? Is there any particular rule for the placement of the present indicative ἐστιν and the adjective δικαια? Parallel to English, I tend to think of "is righteous" as εστιν δικαια.

I read from the textbook that adjective used in the predicate position makes an assertion about the noun. The example given is ἀγαθος ὁ λογος, which means "The word is good." Parallel to this, is δικαια ἡ ἐντολη μου a valid translation also?
I read someone's explanation before that since word order within a single clause typically follows emphasis, "δικαια εστιν" would be more natural as the focus is about the commandment being righteous. (John 5:30 has a similar phrase "η κρισις η εμη δικαια εστιν" = "my judgement is righteous".) "δικαια ἡ ἐντολη μου" is also valid but with a slightly different emphasis: "righteous [is] my commandment". (John 5:32 has a similar phrase "αληθης εστιν η μαρτυρια ην μαρτυρει περι εμου" = "true is the testimony which I testify about myself".) But I think the predicate is not usually put before the subject unless it is an adjective (like here) or an anarthous noun (like "ανηρ αμαρτωλος ειμι" = "[a] sinful man I am" in Luke 5:8) or an adverbial clause (like "εν αυτω ζωη ην" = "in him life was" in John 1:4), or the it is clear what the subject is (like "εκεινος ουκ ειμι" = "that [one] I am not"). "ειμι" is usually not omitted because usually it contributes the subject but "εστιν" seems to be included or excluded according to the author's style.

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 7th, 2011, 11:00 am
by David Ting
Word order is more fluid in Greek. It's pretty standard, though, to place the predicate adjective before the verb εἰμί. That's how we learn it as we are introduced to Greek. Nothing particularly wrong with ἡ εντολη μου εστιν δικαια, but you'd probably look for a reason that this word order would be used. It just feels better to put it the other way. You'll get used to word order things as you read more Greek.

Don't forget that Greek isn't English. ;) Not everything needs to parallel.

Where are you studying Greek?
Thank you! I understand now.

I am studying a course of Master of Divinity at Malaysia Bible Seminary, Malaysia. I am 44 years old. Learning a new language is quite a challenge to me.

Re: How to translate "My commandment is righteous." to Greek

Posted: August 7th, 2011, 11:08 am
by David Ting
I read someone's explanation before that since word order within a single clause typically follows emphasis, "δικαια εστιν" would be more natural as the focus is about the commandment being righteous. (John 5:30 has a similar phrase "η κρισις η εμη δικαια εστιν" = "my judgement is righteous".) "δικαια ἡ ἐντολη μου" is also valid but with a slightly different emphasis: "righteous [is] my commandment". (John 5:32 has a similar phrase "αληθης εστιν η μαρτυρια ην μαρτυρει περι εμου" = "true is the testimony which I testify about myself".) But I think the predicate is not usually put before the subject unless it is an adjective (like here) or an anarthous noun (like "ανηρ αμαρτωλος ειμι" = "[a] sinful man I am" in Luke 5:8) or an adverbial clause (like "εν αυτω ζωη ην" = "in him life was" in John 1:4), or the it is clear what the subject is (like "εκεινος ουκ ειμι" = "that [one] I am not"). "ειμι" is usually not omitted because usually it contributes the subject but "εστιν" seems to be included or excluded according to the author's style.
Thank you for providing an explanation on the reason which such a word order is used.