Vinegar at the Cross

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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Frank Kahney
Posts: 6
Joined: June 22nd, 2011, 6:13 am

Re: Vinegar at the Cross

Post by Frank Kahney »

I did not, Jonathan,

Many thanks, indeed.
Frank Kahney
Posts: 6
Joined: June 22nd, 2011, 6:13 am

Re: Vinegar at the Cross

Post by Frank Kahney »

MAubrey wrote: That's what BDAG and L&N say, though there might be some merit to the idea of LSJ that τρώγω has taken over the function of ἐσθίω as the present verb-form for φαγεῖν. If that's the case, then the difference is actually completely grammatical (contrary to your suggestion that there is no grammatical difference): φαγεῖν is aorist and τρώγω is present.
To return to this subject if I may:

Are there any other instances you're aware of where the present tense of a verb is supplanted by another but the aorist is retained? This seems very strange to me; if a verb 'evolves' to take over the meaning of another verb why not use its aorist, too, instead of the hybrid arrangement suggested in John6?

Many thanks
Barry Hofstetter

Re: Vinegar at the Cross

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Frank Kahney wrote: Are there any other instances you're aware of where the present tense of a verb is supplanted by another but the aorist is retained? This seems very strange to me; if a verb 'evolves' to take over the meaning of another verb why not use its aorist, too, instead of the hybrid arrangement suggested in John6?

Many thanks
There are actually a number of these in Greek, where, for whatever reason, different roots provide different tenses of the verb (these are the famous irregular principal parts which students love to memorize). τρέχω, εδραμον comes to mind, as well as the φέρω, οισω, ηνεγκα or βλέπω/ορω, ειδον. I wouldn't phrase it the same way as you have above -- which root is lost and which is retained is a matter lost to the history of the language, but the end result is the same, different stems seen as semantically linked...
Shirley Rollinson
Posts: 437
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 6:19 pm
Location: New Mexico
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Re: Vinegar at the Cross

Post by Shirley Rollinson »

Jason Hare wrote:
cwconrad wrote: As a sidenote, the Hebrew word for "chewing gum" is mástik (מסטיק), apparently taken from the idea of mastication ("chewing"). :)
"Mastic" is also an English word - as in "gum mastic", the dried resin of the Mastic tree - which was the main basis of "chewing gum" before chicle took over.
And, yes, it comes from the Greek Μαστίχα, - one of the main sources of gum mastic was the island of Chios.
BTW - with regard to confusion between "vinegar" and "sour wine" - they are basically the same. Vinegar is formed by further fermentation of the alcohol in wine - sour wine is partially-fermented wine, not yet fully sour vinegar. Mixed with water it is very refreshing on a hot day.
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