The Pharisees and the Jews don't eat unless they have washed their hands "with the fist"? "up to the elbow"? "with gusto?"Mark 7:1-9 wrote:1 Καὶ συνάγονται πρὸς αὐτὸν οἱ Φαρισαῖοι καί τινες τῶν γραμματέων ἐλθόντες ἀπὸ Ἱεροσολύμων 2 καὶ ἰδόντες τινὰς τῶν μαθητῶν αὐτοῦ ὅτι κοιναῖς χερσίν, τοῦτ' ἔστιν ἀνίπτοις, ἐσθίουσιν τοὺς ἄρτους-
3 οἱ γὰρ Φαρισαῖοι καὶ πάντες οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι
ἐὰν μὴ πυγμῇ νίψωνται τὰς χεῖρας
οὐκ ἐσθίουσιν,
κρατοῦντες τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν πρεσβυτέρων,
4 καὶ ἀπ' ἀγορᾶς ἐὰν μὴ βαπτίσωνται οὐκ ἐσθίουσιν, καὶ ἄλλα πολλά ἐστιν ἃ παρέλαβον κρατεῖν, βαπτισμοὺς ποτηρίων καὶ ξεστῶν καὶ χαλκίων καὶ κλινῶν- 5 καὶ ἐπερωτῶσιν αὐτὸν οἱ Φαρισαῖοι καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς· Διὰ τί οὐ περιπατοῦσιν οἱ μαθηταί σου κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν πρεσβυτέρων, ἀλλὰ κοιναῖς χερσὶν ἐσθίουσιν τὸν ἄρτον; 6 ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· Καλῶς ἐπροφήτευσεν Ἠσαΐας περὶ ὑμῶν τῶν ὑποκριτῶν, ὡς γέγραπται ὅτι Οὗτος ὁ λαὸς τοῖς χείλεσίν με τιμᾷ, ἡ δὲ καρδία αὐτῶν πόρρω ἀπέχει ἀπ' ἐμοῦ· 7 μάτην δὲ σέβονταί με, διδάσκοντες διδασκαλίας ἐντάλματα ἀνθρώπων· 8 ἀφέντες τὴν ἐντολὴν τοῦ θεοῦ κρατεῖτε τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων.
Mark 7:3 ἐὰν μὴ πυγμῇ νίψωνται τὰς χεῖρας
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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
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Mark 7:3 ἐὰν μὴ πυγμῇ νίψωνται τὰς χεῖρας
What is the meaning of πυγμῇ, highlighted below?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Mark 7:3 ἐὰν μὴ πυγμῇ νίψωνται τὰς χεῖρας
Ah, BDAG is useful here.
It actually could refer to a ceremonial washing with the fist. Or not ...
It actually could refer to a ceremonial washing with the fist. Or not ...
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Mark 7:3 ἐὰν μὴ πυγμῇ νίψωνται τὰς χεῖρας
Joel Marcus's commentary gives a couple of options (e.g., up to the fist, with a fistful of water, and with the hand cupped in a fist) and then says that nobody really knows.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Re: Mark 7:3 ἐὰν μὴ πυγμῇ νίψωνται τὰς χεῖρας
I'm reminded of a quip that Lance Berkman had pasted on his locker in his days with the Astros, "One-run games can go either way, and usually do."Jonathan Robie wrote:Ah, BDAG is useful here.
It actually could refer to a ceremonial washing with the fist. Or not ...
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)