Matthew 28:17 οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν

Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Post Reply
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4237
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Matthew 28:17 οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Matthew 28 wrote:16 Οἱ δὲ ἕνδεκα μαθηταὶ ἐπορεύθησαν εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν εἰς τὸ ὄρος οὗ ἐτάξατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, 17 καὶ ἰδόντες αὐτὸν προσεκύνησαν, οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν.
Robertson and the NET notes disagree on who exactly doubted:
Robertson's Word Pictures wrote:But some doubted (ο δε εδιστασαν). From δις (in two, divided in mind). Cf. Mt 14:31. The reference is not to the eleven who were all now convinced after some doubt, but to the others present. Paul states that over five hundred were present, most of whom were still alive when he wrote (1Co 15:6). It is natural that some should hesitate to believe so great a thing at the first appearance of Jesus to them. Their very doubt makes it easier for us to believe. This was the mountain where Jesus had promised to meet them. This fact explains the large number present. Time and place were arranged beforehand. It was the climax of the various appearances and in Galilee where were so many believers. They worshipped (προσεκυνησαν) Jesus as the women had done (28:9). He is now their Risen Lord and Saviour.
NET Notes wrote:The Greek text reads here οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν. Some scholars argue that the article is functioning like a personal pronoun, thus “they doubted” (e.g., D. A. Hagner, Matthew [WBC], 2:884). If so, then all the disciples would be in view. The translation of the text takes οἱ as an alternative pronoun which has a partitive notion (i.e., some of the disciples doubted, but not all). The difficulty with the personal pronoun view is that there are no examples of it in Matthew in which the same subject immediately precedes with its own verb (as would be the case in “they worshiped…they doubted”). Such, in fact, would be quite awkward, for the article would be unnecessary since the pronominal referent is already embedded in the verb. The only reason for the article here would be to distinguish the subject in some way; but if the same subject is in view, no distinction is being made.
How should I understand οἱ δὲ here? Are there other examples like this that come to mind?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: Matthew 28:17 οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν

Post by David Lim »

Jonathan Robie wrote:Robertson and the NET notes disagree on who exactly doubted:

[...]

How should I understand οἱ δὲ here? Are there other examples like this that come to mind?
It seems to me that both Robertson and NET agree actually, and take "οι δε ... οι δε ..." to mean "some (the eleven) ..., and seeing him, ..., but others ..." Robertson says that this does not refer to the eleven but the others who were with them. NET says that the only reason for the article is to distinguish the subject of "εδιστασαν" with the subject of "προσεκυνησαν", thus it would also not be the disciples. Funk's Grammar (635.1) mentions this briefly.
δαυιδ λιμ
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4237
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Matthew 28:17 οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν

Post by Jonathan Robie »

David Lim wrote:It seems to me that both Robertson and NET agree actually, and take "οι δε ... οι δε ..." to mean "some (the eleven) ..., and seeing him, ..., but others ..." Robertson says that this does not refer to the eleven but the others who were with them. NET says that the only reason for the article is to distinguish the subject of "εδιστασαν" with the subject of "προσεκυνησαν", thus it would also not be the disciples. Funk's Grammar (635.1) mentions this briefly.
Ah, I misread the NET notes, thanks. And the reference to Funk is helpful too. This makes sense to me.
The only reason for the article here would be to distinguish the subject in some way; but if the same subject is in view, no distinction is being made.
Weirdly, a lot of translations don't read this way. Are these translations flat-out wrong? Or are there instances in Greek where οἱ δὲ is used in a partitive sense like this?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Stephen Carlson
Posts: 3355
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Matthew 28:17 οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν

Post by Stephen Carlson »

The NET takes this as a partitive expression as well: "but some doubted." Both Robertson and the NET recognize that the expression οἱ δέ means that those who doubted cannot be coterminous with those who worshiped. The difference lies, as far as I can tell, in the identity of the doubters. The NET, like most translations, see the doubters as a subset of the eleven, while Robertson has to read in the existence of other people to the Matthean account from 1 Cor 15.

This verse has come up several times on B-Greek in its previous incantation.

Stephen
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4237
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Matthew 28:17 οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Stephen Carlson wrote:Both Robertson and the NET recognize that the expression οἱ δέ means that those who doubted cannot be coterminous with those who worshiped. The difference lies, as far as I can tell, in the identity of the doubters. The NET, like most translations, see the doubters as a subset of the eleven, while Robertson has to read in the existence of other people to the Matthean account from 1 Cor 15.
Got it - thanks!
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Post Reply

Return to “New Testament”