What is the antecedent for ἥτις in this text?Philippians 1:27-30 wrote: 27 Μόνον ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε, ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν, ὅτι στήκετε ἐν ἑνὶ πνεύματι, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, 28 καὶ μὴ πτυρόμενοι ἐν μηδενὶ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀντικειμένων, ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας, ὑμῶν δὲ σωτηρίας, καὶ τοῦτο ἀπὸ θεοῦ· 29 ὅτι ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη τὸ ὑπὲρ Χριστοῦ, οὐ μόνον τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν, 30 τὸν αὐτὸν ἀγῶνα ἔχοντες οἷον εἴδετε ἐν ἐμοὶ καὶ νῦν ἀκούετε ἐν ἐμοί.
Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
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Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
"ητις" is an indefinite relative pronoun and does not normally need an antecedent. "ητις εστιν αυτοις ενδειξις απωλειας υμων δε σωτηριας" means "that which is to them [a] showing forth of destruction but of your salvation". It seems somewhat to refer to "μηδενι"; "do not be frightened by anything because it shows forth destruction to them but shows forth your salvation.".Jonathan Robie wrote:What is the antecedent for ἥτις in this text?Philippians 1:27-30 wrote: 27 Μόνον ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε, ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν, ὅτι στήκετε ἐν ἑνὶ πνεύματι, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, 28 καὶ μὴ πτυρόμενοι ἐν μηδενὶ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀντικειμένων, ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας, ὑμῶν δὲ σωτηρίας, καὶ τοῦτο ἀπὸ θεοῦ· 29 ὅτι ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη τὸ ὑπὲρ Χριστοῦ, οὐ μόνον τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν, 30 τὸν αὐτὸν ἀγῶνα ἔχοντες οἷον εἴδετε ἐν ἐμοὶ καὶ νῦν ἀκούετε ἐν ἐμοί.
δαυιδ λιμ
Re: Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
For what it's worth, Iver Larsen and I squared off on this question on the old mailing list in January of 2002 and came to different conclusions: the subject-header of the thread was "Phil 1:28 hHTIS" and all messages in the thread can be accessed at:Jonathan Robie wrote:What is the antecedent for ἥτις in this text?Philippians 1:27-30 wrote: 27 Μόνον ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε, ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν, ὅτι στήκετε ἐν ἑνὶ πνεύματι, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, 28 καὶ μὴ πτυρόμενοι ἐν μηδενὶ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀντικειμένων, ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας, ὑμῶν δὲ σωτηρίας, καὶ τοῦτο ἀπὸ θεοῦ· 29 ὅτι ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη τὸ ὑπὲρ Χριστοῦ, οὐ μόνον τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν, 30 τὸν αὐτὸν ἀγῶνα ἔχοντες οἷον εἴδετε ἐν ἐμοὶ καὶ νῦν ἀκούετε ἐν ἐμοί.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... html#19833
Suffice it to say: there's more than one perspective on this question.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
I'm really glad I asked! Very interesting discussion there.cwconrad wrote:For what it's worth, Iver Larsen and I squared off on this question on the old mailing list in January of 2002 and came to different conclusions: the subject-header of the thread was "Phil 1:28 hHTIS" and all messages in the thread can be accessed at:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... html#19833
Suffice it to say: there's more than one perspective on this question.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
Wait, what happened to the February archive? Are there more posts on the same topic in February?cwconrad wrote:For what it's worth, Iver Larsen and I squared off on this question on the old mailing list in January of 2002 and came to different conclusions: the subject-header of the thread was "Phil 1:28 hHTIS" and all messages in the thread can be accessed at:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... html#19833
Suffice it to say: there's more than one perspective on this question.
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
It's not there with the rest of the archives, but if you google b-greek "February 2002" you can find the messages, of which the only relevant one is Carl's recapitulation of his points.David Lim wrote:Wait, what happened to the February archive? Are there more posts on the same topic in February?
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Re: Philippians 1:28 ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας
Somehow Google gave nothing, but I found http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/ and http://web.archive.org/web/200910020627 ... ves/html4/, in case anyone needs it too. Thanks!Stephen Carlson wrote:It's not there with the rest of the archives, but if you google b-greek "February 2002" you can find the messages, of which the only relevant one is Carl's recapitulation of his points.David Lim wrote:Wait, what happened to the February archive? Are there more posts on the same topic in February?
δαυιδ λιμ