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Philippians 1:27 ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν

Posted: July 17th, 2012, 7:46 am
by Jonathan Robie
Philippians 1:27-30 wrote:27 Μόνον ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε, ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν, ὅτι στήκετε ἐν ἑνὶ πνεύματι, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, 28 καὶ μὴ πτυρόμενοι ἐν μηδενὶ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀντικειμένων (ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας, ὑμῶν δὲ σωτηρίας, καὶ τοῦτο ἀπὸ θεοῦ, 29 ὅτι ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη τὸ ὑπὲρ Χριστοῦ, οὐ μόνον τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν), 30 τὸν αὐτὸν ἀγῶνα ἔχοντες οἷον εἴδετε ἐν ἐμοὶ καὶ νῦν ἀκούετε ἐν ἐμοί.
I assume ἀκούω is subjunctive in ἵνα εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω (the form is the same for indicative or subjunctive).

ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν uses two aorist active participles, but the meaning is subjunctive. Isn't that a bit surprising? What's going on with the grammar here?

Re: Philippians 1:27 ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν

Posted: July 17th, 2012, 11:01 am
by Jason Hare
Jonathan Robie wrote:
Philippians 1:27-30 wrote:27 Μόνον ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε, ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν, ὅτι στήκετε ἐν ἑνὶ πνεύματι, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, 28 καὶ μὴ πτυρόμενοι ἐν μηδενὶ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀντικειμένων (ἥτις ἐστὶν αὐτοῖς ἔνδειξις ἀπωλείας, ὑμῶν δὲ σωτηρίας, καὶ τοῦτο ἀπὸ θεοῦ, 29 ὅτι ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη τὸ ὑπὲρ Χριστοῦ, οὐ μόνον τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν), 30 τὸν αὐτὸν ἀγῶνα ἔχοντες οἷον εἴδετε ἐν ἐμοὶ καὶ νῦν ἀκούετε ἐν ἐμοί.
I assume ἀκούω is subjunctive in ἵνα εἴτε ἀπὼν ἀκούω (the form is the same for indicative or subjunctive).

ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν uses two aorist active participles, but the meaning is subjunctive. Isn't that a bit surprising? What's going on with the grammar here?
You certainly understand ἀκούω correctly here as a subjunctive. The participles are related to this verb, saying that he wanted to hear these various things about them, whether he had come and seen them or was absent from them (notice that ἀπών is present rather than aorist). The ἵνα goes with ἀκούω (subjunctive) rather than with the participles, which we should not expect to be in the subjunctive themselves.

Re: Philippians 1:27 ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν

Posted: July 17th, 2012, 11:22 am
by Jonathan Robie
Ah, so taking out the participles, we have this:

ἵνα ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν

And putting them back, in parentheses, we have this:

ἵνα (εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν) ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν

Is that how you are reading it?

Re: Philippians 1:27 ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν

Posted: July 17th, 2012, 11:37 am
by Stephen Carlson
Jonathan Robie wrote:ἵνα (εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν) ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν
These participles seem to be circumstantial of the conditional type. At least, that's how Brooks and Winberry classify them.

Re: Philippians 1:27 ἵνα εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν

Posted: July 17th, 2012, 12:10 pm
by Jason Hare
Jonathan Robie wrote:Ah, so taking out the participles, we have this:

ἵνα ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν

And putting them back, in parentheses, we have this:

ἵνα (εἴτε ἐλθὼν καὶ ἰδὼν ὑμᾶς εἴτε ἀπὼν) ἀκούω τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν

Is that how you are reading it?
Precisely. :)