ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

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Andrew Chapman
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ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Andrew Chapman »

1 Ἐρωτῶμεν δὲ ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, ὑπὲρ τῆς παρουσίας τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡμῶν ἐπισυναγωγῆς ἐπ’ αὐτὸν
2 εἰς τὸ μὴ ταχέως σαλευθῆναι ὑμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ νοὸς μηδὲ θροεῖσθαι, μήτε διὰ πνεύματος μήτε διὰ λόγου μήτε δι’ ἐπιστολῆς ὡς δι’ ἡμῶν, ὡς ὅτι ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου·

Can ἐνέστηκεν mean 'be at hand', 'be imminent', as some say, even though it is perfect tense. I don't yet understand how this is possible, but I do find this sense given in both Liddell and Scott, and BDAG:
Aristophanes, Clouds, 779:

Στρεψιάδης:

καὶ δὴ λέγω.
εἰ πρόσθεν ἔτι μιᾶς ἐνεστώσης δίκης,
πρὶν τὴν ἐμὴν καλεῖσθ᾽, ἀπαγξαίμην τρέχων.

Strep.:

Well now, I'll tell you. If, while one suit was still pending, before mine was called on, I were to run away and hang myself. [Hickie]
I don't yet understand the translation. Surely πρόσθεν means 'before', in which case one would have something like 'before one suit [is] having set in', that is, before it has begun.

BDAG gives 'the impending crisis' for τὴν ἐνεστῶσαν ἀνάγκην in 1 Corinthians 7.26. Is this possible?

Andrew
Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

Andrew Chapman wrote:1 Ἐρωτῶμεν δὲ ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, ὑπὲρ τῆς παρουσίας τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡμῶν ἐπισυναγωγῆς ἐπ’ αὐτὸν
2 εἰς τὸ μὴ ταχέως σαλευθῆναι ὑμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ νοὸς μηδὲ θροεῖσθαι, μήτε διὰ πνεύματος μήτε διὰ λόγου μήτε δι’ ἐπιστολῆς ὡς δι’ ἡμῶν, ὡς ὅτι ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου·

Can ἐνέστηκεν mean 'be at hand', 'be imminent', as some say, even though it is perfect tense. I don't yet understand how this is possible, but I do find this sense given in both Liddell and Scott, and BDAG:
Aristophanes, Clouds, 779:

Στρεψιάδης:

καὶ δὴ λέγω.
εἰ πρόσθεν ἔτι μιᾶς ἐνεστώσης δίκης,
πρὶν τὴν ἐμὴν καλεῖσθ᾽, ἀπαγξαίμην τρέχων.

Strep.:

Well now, I'll tell you. If, while one suit was still pending, before mine was called on, I were to run away and hang myself. [Hickie]
I don't yet understand the translation. Surely πρόσθεν means 'before', in which case one would have something like 'before one suit [is] having set in', that is, before it has begun.

BDAG gives 'the impending crisis' for τὴν ἐνεστῶσαν ἀνάγκην in 1 Corinthians 7.26. Is this possible?

Andrew
It might help if you think of idioms as complex units, where the whole unit means something that cannot be durived from an analysis of individual parts. In other words "having set in" is not what ἐνεστώσης means in this context. Trust LSJ and BDAG.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Andrew Chapman wrote:Can ἐνέστηκεν mean 'be at hand', 'be imminent', as some say, even though it is perfect tense.
It only looks like a perfect and declines like a perfect - actually it has present (same time as the other actions) time reference.

Have a look at these examples (base form then alphabetical);
  • ἕστηκεν (passim) ἕστηκεν (James 5:9 ὁ κριτὴς πρὸ τῶν θυρῶν ἕστηκεν. the judge stands at the door) and
    εἱστήκει in a past tense narrative (Luke 23:35 Καὶ εἱστήκει ὁ λαὸς θεωρῶν. The people stood watching),
  • ἀνθέστηκεν ( Romans 9:19 Τῷ γὰρ βουλήματι αὐτοῦ τίς ἀνθέστηκεν; Who withstands his purpose?; cf. Romans 13:2 and 1 Timothy 4:15 Byz. Text),
  • ἐφέστηκεν (1 Timothy 4:6 ὁ καιρὸς τῆς ἐμῆς ἀναλύσεως ἐφέστηκεν. The time of my departure is at hand.),
  • παρέστηκεν (Mark 4:29 παρέστηκεν ὁ θερισμός It is harvest (time)) and
    παρειστήκεισαν (in past tense narrative) (Acts 1:11 ἰδοὺ ἄνδρες δύο παρειστήκεισαν αὐτοῖς ἐν ἐσθῆτι λευκῇ And look, two men were standing by them in white clothes), and
  • συνέστηκεν (Colossians 1:17 καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν. and all things are held together in him).
This was a manual concordance search, so far as I know, that list is exhaustive for compound forms, but it is not exhaustive for all New Testament examples, and I'm not sure if I caught all the pluperfect forms.

If you want to, you could go through the participial forms yourself. There are other compounds that only have participial examples in the New Testament, which you should search out if you want to be complete.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Andrew Chapman »

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
Andrew Chapman wrote: Aristophanes, Clouds, 779:

Στρεψιάδης:

καὶ δὴ λέγω.
εἰ πρόσθεν ἔτι μιᾶς ἐνεστώσης δίκης,
πρὶν τὴν ἐμὴν καλεῖσθ᾽, ἀπαγξαίμην τρέχων.

Strep.:

Well now, I'll tell you. If, while one suit was still pending, before mine was called on, I were to run away and hang myself. [Hickie]

I don't yet understand the translation. Surely πρόσθεν means 'before', in which case one would have something like 'before one suit [is] having set in', that is, before it has begun.
It might help if you think of idioms as complex units, where the whole unit means something that cannot be durived from an analysis of individual parts.
Thanks, Clayton, that's helpful. It seems to me that 'before one suit is present' is much the same as 'while one suit is pending' - so that in fact the translator may be understanding ἐνεστώσης as present rather than imminent. But then it doesn't count as an example of the meaning 'pending', which is the one that I am querying. This part of the Liddell and Scott entry reads:
esp. in pf. part., pending, present, “μιᾶς ἐνεστώσης δίκης” Ar.Nu.779, cf. Is.11.45, D.33.14; “ὁ νῦν ἐνεστηκὼς ἀγών” Lycurg.7; so “οὐδενὸς ἡμῖν ἐνεστῶτος πρὸς αὐτούς” PStrassb.91.21 (i B.C.)
Demosthenes, Against Apatouris:
ἐνεστηκυιῶν δ᾽ αὐτοῖς τῶν δικῶν..
When both actions had been instituted.. [Murray]

(I can't find Is. 11.45)

Lycurgus, Against Leocrates, 1.7:
ὁ δὲ νῦν ἐνεστηκὼς..
But the present case..

p.stras.2.91 would take some work

I should look at the preceding instances in L&S under 'be upon, threaten'.

So I am currently still looking for an instance, where it really means 'pending' rather than 'present'.
Stephen Hughes wrote: ἐφέστηκεν (1[2] Timothy 4:6 ὁ καιρὸς τῆς ἐμῆς ἀναλύσεως ἐφέστηκεν. The time of my departure is at hand.),
Thanks, Stephen, I am familiar with ἵστημι in the perfect having a present meaning. My doubt was about whether it can have what seems to be a future meaning - although I can see that the more imminent something is, the more present it may seem. So your example from 2 Timothy is the closest to the sense that is argued for by some. But here it is ἐφίστημι, so it can naturally have be present in tense, but impending in meaning - the time of my departure is now standing over me, so to speak.

But can ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου mean that the day of the Lord is imminent, rather than that it is now present?

Andrew
Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

So I am currently still looking for an instance, where it really means 'pending' rather than 'present'.
You already have one or perhaps two :-)

L&N (1st ed. hard copy)
67.63 ἐφίσταμαι (and perfect active); ἐνίσταμαι (and perfect active): to occur with high probability at a point of time just subsequent to another point of time — ‘imminent, impending.’
ἐφίσταμαι: ὁ καιρὸς τῆς ἀναλύσεώς μου ἐφέστηκεν ‘the time of my departure is very near’ 2Tm 4:6.
ἐνίσταμαι: νομίζω οὖν τοῦτο καλὸν ὑπάρχειν διὰ τὴν ἐνεστῶσαν ἀνάγκην ‘I think that this is better, due to the impending distress’ 1Cor 7:26.
Alford claims that ἐφίσταμαι always means be present in NT and never "at hand" or "immanent." Alford says the statement "the day of the lord is immanent / at hand" is not news. So Alford was way ahead of his time applying Relevance Theory to the problem and concluding that "at hand" or "immanent" fail the relevance test.

A.T. Robertson (p895) cites ἐνέστηκεν in 2Thes 2.2 as an example of a purely durative perfect. In other words the action which leads to the current state is not in view. However this has less to do with the verb form since there is no antecedent action in ἐνέστηκεν. The verb indicates a state of affairs with no indication of how that state came to be. This is a lot of fuss about something fairly simple. Student asks: How would I say "the day of the Lord is here" in Koine? Answer: ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου.
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

(I can't find Is. 11.45)
Here it is:

Isaeus Orat., De Hagnia .Sec 45,
Κἀμοὶ μὲν ὁ κλῆρος ὃν Ἁγνίας κατέλιπεν, οὗτος
οὔπω βέβαιός ἐστι· δίκαι γὰρ ἐνεστήκασι ψευδομαρτυρίων,
κελεύει δ' ὁ νόμος, ἐὰν ἁλῷ τις τῶν ψευδομαρτυρίων,
πάλιν ἐξ ἀρχῆς εἶναι περὶ αὐτῶν τὰς λήξεις· τὰ δὲ τοῦ
παιδὸς ὡμολογημένα καὶ ἀναμφισβήτητα καταλέλοιπε
Στρατοκλῆς.

Perseus Translation
On my side, the estate left by Hagnias is not yet secured to me; for trials for perjury are still pending, and the law ordains that, if there is any conviction for perjury, the action claiming an estate must be heard over again. On the other hand, the child's fortune bequeathed to him by Stratocles is admitted and not contested.
Last edited by Stirling Bartholomew on November 5th, 2014, 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
Stephen Hughes
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Andrew Chapman wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:ἐφέστηκεν (1[2] Timothy 4:6 ὁ καιρὸς τῆς ἐμῆς ἀναλύσεως ἐφέστηκεν. The time of my departure is at hand.),
Thanks, Stephen, I am familiar with ἵστημι in the perfect having a present meaning. My doubt was about whether it can have what seems to be a future meaning - although I can see that the more imminent something is, the more present it may seem. So your example from 2 Timothy is the closest to the sense that is argued for by some. But here it is ἐφίστημι, so it can naturally have be present in tense, but impending in meaning - the time of my departure is now standing over me, so to speak.

But can ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου mean that the day of the Lord is imminent, rather than that it is now present?
Can something mean something is a difficult question, because between the right people any utterance can mean just about anything, so long as it is understood - even if just by them. Seriously, though, how long is the present?

I ask that because the present tense from the grammarians right up till Modern Greek is called the ὁ ἐνεστὼς (χρόνος), and if at the time of speaking you are doing it, you are anticipating doing it for a bit longer, right? Otherwise - if you were not going to be doing it for longer than the time you began to speak - it would be over, and wouldn't be present. That is to say that theoretically any present tense needs be has at least a little future reference. Is the minimum length present, the length of speaking, or up to the time taken to comprehend something, or perhaps to act on it? In any case, taking the speakers moment (either actual or remembered as the marker point for time measurement), it seems more likely that the present must contain something of the future. On that basis, in general the present refers to the very immediate future - the extension of the present.

But that doesn't seem to be what you are asking. You seem to be saying can it be in the future of itself, close to, but without direct relationship to an action that is in the present. Let me preface this next remark by saying that I handle the "present used in non-present situations, by understanding the present as referring to an imagined time reference point that at that moment holds great relevance to the speaker / writer. It would seem strange to me (but who am I to judge), if the imagined point of reference was within the period that was already being considered as present on account of other attendant circumstances.

Andrew, my ignorance and knowledge is publicly displayed here quite often, so I'm sure you have formed adequate opinion of my ability and inability and will be able to make an informed value judgement about my opinions. That is to say, that while I think it means present, you could consider whether my reasons for thinking that are relevant or not.

———
I'm sure you have looked at them already, but let me bring up for public discussion some related verbs;
2 Peter 3:10 wrote:Ἥξει δὲ ἡ ἡμέρα κυρίου ὡς κλέπτης ἐν νυκτί
Which has a future sense. Also
Romans 13:12 wrote:ἡ δὲ ἡμέρα ἤγγικεν·
Which has the feeling of immanence and is a future reference.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Andrew Chapman »

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
So I am currently still looking for an instance, where it really means 'pending' rather than 'present'.
You already have one or perhaps two :-)
Do you mean 2 Tim 4.6 and 1 Cor 7.26, or are you referring to the classical ones?

Thanks for the Louw and Nida reference.
Νομίζω οὖν τοῦτο καλὸν ὑπάρχειν διὰ τὴν ἐνεστῶσαν ἀνάγκην, ὅτι καλὸν ἀνθρώπῳ τὸ οὕτως εἶναι. [1 Cor 7.26]
Ellicott says with regard to this verse that ἐνεστώς refers to something that had already commenced. And Alford says that 'the Apostle regards [the apprehended troubles] as instant, already begun: for this is the meaning of ἐνεστῶσαν, not imminent, shortly to come: see reff. and Jos. Antt. xvi. 6. 2, τὸ ἔθνος τῶν Ἱουδαίων εὐχάριστον εὑρέθη, οὐ μόνον ἐν τῷ ἐνεστῶτι καιρῷ, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐν τῷ προγεγενημένῳ,—where all time future is evidently excluded. See note on 2 Th 2:2, where this distinction is very important.
τοῦ δόντος ἑαυτὸν ὑπὲρ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν, ὅπως ἐξέληται ἡμᾶς ἐκ τοῦ αἰῶνος τοῦ ἐνεστῶτος πονηροῦ κατὰ τὸ θέλημα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ πατρὸς ἡμῶν, [Gal 1.4]
J. B. Lightfoot, Galatians, on this verse:
It has been proposed to take ἐνεστώς here in the sense of 'impending' as referring to the final apostasy. In other passages however ἐνεστῶτα is plainly 'present' as opposed to μέλλοντα 'future,' Rom. viii. 38, 1 Cor. iii. 22 .. Even in passages where it seems at first sight to have the sense 'impending, soon to come' as in 1 Cor. vii. 26 διὰ τὴν ἐνεστῶσαν ἀνάγκην, 2 Thess. ii. 2 ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου, its proper meaning is more appropriate.
George Milligan on 2 Thessalonians, at 2.2:
ὡς ὅτι ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου· 'as if the day of the Lord is now present' .. ἐνέστηκεν denoting strictly present time. The verb is very common in the papyri and inscriptions with reference to the current year..
Thanks very much for finding the Isaeus text (I thought I had looked there..). I don't see why this has to mean 'are about to begin' rather than 'have begun, are underway, but we are still waiting for the verdict'. If Lightfoot is right that the 'imminent' meaning is 'improper', then I would have thought one would prefer the 'present' meaning where either is possible. But of course, the translator may have been convinced for good reasons that 'imminent' is a well established meaning.

Andrew
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Andrew Chapman wrote:Thanks very much for finding the Isaeus text (I thought I had looked there..). I don't see why this has to mean 'are about to begin' rather than 'have begun, are underway, but we are still waiting for the verdict'. If Lightfoot is right that the 'imminent' meaning is 'improper', then I would have thought one would prefer the 'present' meaning where either is possible. But of course, the translator may have been convinced for good reasons that 'imminent' is a well established meaning.
Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
Isaeus Orat., De Hagnia .Sec 45 wrote:
Κἀμοὶ μὲν ὁ κλῆρος ὃν Ἁγνίας κατέλιπεν, οὗτος
οὔπω βέβαιός ἐστι· δίκαι γὰρ ἐνεστήκασι ψευδομαρτυρίων,
κελεύει δ' ὁ νόμος, ἐὰν ἁλῷ τις τῶν ψευδομαρτυρίων,
πάλιν ἐξ ἀρχῆς εἶναι περὶ αὐτῶν τὰς λήξεις· τὰ δὲ τοῦ
παιδὸς ὡμολογημένα καὶ ἀναμφισβήτητα καταλέλοιπε
Στρατοκλῆς.
On my side, the estate left by Hagnias is not yet secured to me; for trials for perjury are still pending, and the law ordains that, if there is any conviction for perjury, the action claiming an estate must be heard over again. On the other hand, the child's fortune bequeathed to him by Stratocles is admitted and not contested.
Clay, I think that the way you have taken ἐνεστήκασι there as "are still pending", could better be understood as, "are (currently) in the way (of my inheriting)", (and when they go before the court, and are dismissed, I too will be able to inherit as the child has done).
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: ἐνέστηκεν in 2 Thessalonians 2.2

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

Stephen Hughes wrote:I think that the way you have taken ἐνεστήκασι there as "are still pending".
That isn't my translation, Perseus.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
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