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B-Greek: The Biblical Greek Forum • Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen
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Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen

Posted: January 30th, 2015, 3:53 pm
by Stephen Hughes
Acts 7:58 wrote:καὶ ἐκβαλόντες ἔξω τῆς πόλεως, ἐλιθοβόλουν· καὶ οἱ μάρτυρες ἀπέθεντο τὰ ἱμάτια παρὰ τοὺς πόδας νεανίου καλουμένου Σαύλου.
Perhaps it is not a linguistic question, perhaps it is, but does οἱ μάρτυρες here designated those who actually did the stoning? I guess that's why they took their outer garments off.

BDAG doesn't specifically mention it as a euphemism or some oblique way of referring to those who carried our the sentence. It is logical that the ultimate to witness to a belief that some one is guilty of a crime is to be involved in carrying out a sentence against them. Is that possible here?

Re: Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen

Posted: January 30th, 2015, 8:47 pm
by Stephen Carlson
To keep the focus on the grammar, you can view the imperfect ἐλιθοβόλουν as inceptive, "they began to stone (him)." This stoning is still on-going for the aorist in the next sentence, when the witnesses take off their cloaks. So, I'd say that the witnesses initially weren't involved in the stoning, but the act of taking off their cloaks suggests that they later joined in.

Re: Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen

Posted: January 31st, 2015, 5:44 pm
by Shirley Rollinson
Stephen Hughes wrote:
Acts 7:58 wrote:καὶ ἐκβαλόντες ἔξω τῆς πόλεως, ἐλιθοβόλουν· καὶ οἱ μάρτυρες ἀπέθεντο τὰ ἱμάτια παρὰ τοὺς πόδας νεανίου καλουμένου Σαύλου.
Perhaps it is not a linguistic question, perhaps it is, but does οἱ μάρτυρες here designated those who actually did the stoning? I guess that's why they took their outer garments off.

BDAG doesn't specifically mention it as a euphemism or some oblique way of referring to those who carried our the sentence. It is logical that the ultimate to witness to a belief that some one is guilty of a crime is to be involved in carrying out a sentence against them. Is that possible here?
According to Deuteronomy 17:6-7 the witnesses against someone convicted of death were to be the ones who "cast the first stone"
I take the imperfect ἐλιθοβόλουν (Acts 7:58 & 59) to mean that they "were stoning" Stephen - i.e. they threw more than one stone.

Re: Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen

Posted: January 31st, 2015, 5:54 pm
by Stephen Carlson
I don't know whether Deut 17 is still operative here. It's not like the stoning is a legal form of punishment under the Roman rulers.

At any rate, you seem to be taking the following aorist ἀπέθεντο as a out-of-sequence or non-narrative, constantive aorist, which would have to happen before one starts stoning. I suppose this is possible, particularly if one wants to reads the procedures of Deut 17 into the lynching.

Re: Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen

Posted: January 31st, 2015, 5:57 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Shirley Rollinson wrote:According to Deuteronomy 17:6-7 the witnesses against someone convicted of death were to be the ones who "cast the first stone"
I take the imperfect ἐλιθοβόλουν (Acts 7:58 & 59) to mean that they "were stoning" Stephen - i.e. they threw more than one stone.
I should add that an aorist wouldn't exclude the throwing of multiple stones as long as the activity as a whole is complete. The imperfect suggests that the throwing of stones is on-going in the relevant time frame.

Re: Acts 7:58 οἱ μάρτυρες at the stoning of Stephen

Posted: February 1st, 2015, 5:34 am
by Stephen Hughes
Stephen Carlson wrote:you seem to be taking the following aorist ἀπέθεντο as a out-of-sequence or non-narrative, constantive aorist, which would have to happen before one starts stoning.
What led me to the question about οἱ μάρτυρες was taking a different tack from here. Let me explain...

There are three actions in the sequence
Acts 7:58 wrote:καὶ ἐκβαλόντες {τὸν Στέφανον} ἔξω τῆς πόλεως, ἐλιθοβόλουν {αὐτόν}· καὶ οἱ μάρτυρες ἀπέθεντο τὰ ἱμάτια παρὰ τοὺς πόδας νεανίου καλουμένου Σαύλου.

I also have trouble with the sequencing. It is grammar that led me to the question.

Putting aside for a moment the action that didn't take place at the place at the place of stoning (i.e. the ἐκβαλόντες), we are left with ἐλιθοβόλουν καὶ οἱ μάρτυρες ἀπέθεντο τὰ ἱμάτια. If we take ἐλιθοβόλουν καὶ in a syntactic position that is suitable for a participle it could have been λιθοβολοῦντες οἱ μάρτυρες ἀπέθεντο τὰ ἱμάτια, but using a particple instead of a full verb would that would cause us to assume an equivalence between the actors for λιθοβολεῖν and ἀποθεῖναι, i.e. that the answer to my head question in this thread was right - the οἱ μάρτυρες were the (sole) executioners.

The other way of taking this that I thought of was as an imperfect of the background action with an aorist of a detail within that overall action. That seems cumbersome too.

Look at verses 54, 57, where the participles seem to be referring to the crowd en masse. Specific mention hasn't been made of the witnesses since chapter 6:13, 14.
Shirley Rollinson wrote:According to Deuteronomy 17:6-7 the witnesses against someone convicted of death were to be the ones who "cast the first stone"
I take the imperfect ἐλιθοβόλουν (Acts 7:58 & 59) to mean that they "were stoning" Stephen - i.e. they threw more than one stone.
Another way is to forget the existence of verse 58, and take the first part as with 57 and tthe second part with 59.
καὶ οἱ μάρτυρες ἀπέθεντο τὰ ἱμάτια παρὰ τοὺς πόδας νεανίου καλουμένου Σαύλου. Καὶ ἐλιθοβόλουν τὸν Στέφανον , ἐπικαλούμενον καὶ λέγοντα , Κύριε Ἰησοῦ , δέξαι τὸ πνεῦμά μου
Then the aorist is in sequence, but in the light of Deuteronomy, the stoning id being portrayed as illegal (even) under Jewish law.