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Acts 10:14 πᾶν κοινὸν καὶ ἀκάθαρτον
Posted: July 16th, 2015, 2:14 pm
by Jonathan Robie
Acts 10:14 wrote:ὁ δὲ Πέτρος εἶπεν· Μηδαμῶς, κύριε, ὅτι οὐδέποτε ἔφαγον πᾶν κοινὸν καὶ ἀκάθαρτον.
BDAG says κοινός means "ceremonially impure". Is that the same as or different from unclean?
1 Maccabees 1 is relevant here:
1 Maccabees 1:62-63 wrote:καὶ πολλοὶ ἐν ᾿Ισραὴλ ἐκραταιώθησαν καὶ ὠχυρώθησαν ἐν ἑαυτοῖς τοῦ μὴ φαγεῖν κοινὰ καὶ ἐπελέξαντο ἀποθανεῖν, ἵνα μὴ μιανθῶσι τοῖς βρώμασι καὶ μὴ βεβηλώσωσι διαθήκην ἁγίαν, καὶ ἀπέθανον.
But many in Israel remained strong and fortified themselves not to eat common things. And they preferred to die so as not to be contaminated by food and not to defile the holy covenant, and they died.
Meyer refers to the Talmud:
Meyer wrote:ὅτι οὐδέποτε ἔφαγον πᾶν κοινὸν ἢ ἀκάθαρτ.] for never ate I anything common or unclean (the Talmudic פסול או טמא), i.e. for any profane thing I have always left uneaten. ἤ does not stand for καί (which Lachm. and Tisch. read, after A B א, min. VSS. Clem. Or.; perhaps correctly, see Acts 11:8), but appends for the exhaustion of the idea another synonymous expression. Fritzsche, ad Marc. p. 277; Bornemann, Schol. in Luc. p. xl. f. κοινός = βέβηλος; the opposite of ἅγιος (Ezekiel 42:20).
I don't know Hebrew. What does פסול או טמא mean, and how is it used in the Talmud?
Re: Acts 10:14 πᾶν κοινὸν καὶ ἀκάθαρτον
Posted: July 16th, 2015, 7:38 pm
by cwconrad
Jonathan Robie wrote:Acts 10:14 wrote:ὁ δὲ Πέτρος εἶπεν· Μηδαμῶς, κύριε, ὅτι οὐδέποτε ἔφαγον πᾶν κοινὸν καὶ ἀκάθαρτον.
BDAG says κοινός means "ceremonially impure". Is that the same as or different from unclean?
1 Maccabees 1 is relevant here:
1 Maccabees 1:62-63 wrote:καὶ πολλοὶ ἐν ᾿Ισραὴλ ἐκραταιώθησαν καὶ ὠχυρώθησαν ἐν ἑαυτοῖς τοῦ μὴ φαγεῖν κοινὰ καὶ ἐπελέξαντο ἀποθανεῖν, ἵνα μὴ μιανθῶσι τοῖς βρώμασι καὶ μὴ βεβηλώσωσι διαθήκην ἁγίαν, καὶ ἀπέθανον.
But many in Israel remained strong and fortified themselves not to eat common things. And they preferred to die so as not to be contaminated by food and not to defile the holy covenant, and they died.
Meyer refers to the Talmud:
Meyer wrote:ὅτι οὐδέποτε ἔφαγον πᾶν κοινὸν ἢ ἀκάθαρτ.] for never ate I anything common or unclean (the Talmudic פסול או טמא), i.e. for any profane thing I have always left uneaten. ἤ does not stand for καί (which Lachm. and Tisch. read, after A B א, min. VSS. Clem. Or.; perhaps correctly, see Acts 11:8), but appends for the exhaustion of the idea another synonymous expression. Fritzsche, ad Marc. p. 277; Bornemann, Schol. in Luc. p. xl. f. κοινός = βέβηλος; the opposite of ἅγιος (Ezekiel 42:20).
I don't know Hebrew. What does פסול או טמא mean, and how is it used in the Talmud?
I defer to the
conoscenti to explain the Hebrew terms, but here the sense for κοινόν must surely be "profane" or "non-kosher". The Lucan scholion cited by Meyer draws the distinction between "sacred"(ἅγιος) and "profane" (κοινός). Likewise land that one can tread is βέβηλος, while land within the sacred precinct is ἅγιος.
Re: Acts 10:14 πᾶν κοινὸν καὶ ἀκάθαρτον
Posted: July 16th, 2015, 9:52 pm
by timothy_p_mcmahon
I wouldn't call myself a cognoscento on talmudic matters, but the impression I'm under is that טמא means 'ritually unclean by nature' (such as hog's flesh) and that פסול denotes something that's clean by nature but somehow defiled (through contact with a ritually unclean substance, for example), so פסול או טמא would probably include foods characterized by either primary or secondary ritual uncleanness. Whether κοινὸς and ἀκάθαρτος were used as equivalents to these Hebrew terms, I don't know.
Re: Acts 10:14 πᾶν κοινὸν καὶ ἀκάθαρτον
Posted: July 17th, 2015, 8:43 pm
by S Walch
Judging from the use of טמא in the Tanakh, טמא is more something that has "become defiled", rather than something that is "defiled" by nature (Hag 2:13); this is usually translated by ἀκάθαρτος in the LXX.
However I'm not familiar with פסול, but to me looks like it's from פסל meaning "idol, carved image", and therefore probably means something alongside "improper; unacceptable": פסול או טמא therefore probably means "unacceptable and unclean", to which Carl's translation of κοινόν as "non-kosher" being quite applicable.
The few and far between instances of κοινὸς in the LXX doesn't help much with a pre-Talmud Hebrew equivalence, but it's use in Proverbs 21:9 and 25:24 for the Hebrew חבר/joined/united/shared may be a slight clue. Something "so common that everyone's used it"; l guess in modern English this would refer to something "passed around".
Edit:
Possibly κοινὸς had a sense of "vulgar/indecent/contemptible" rather than "ceremonially impure"? Or maybe something "socially unacceptable", though not necessarily forbidden or profane? (Calling something "profane and unclean" to me would seem to be saying the same thing twice, more or less.)