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B-Greek: The Biblical Greek Forum • A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
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A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 7th, 2016, 9:47 am
by Jonathan Robie
John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 7th, 2016, 10:01 am
by cwconrad
Jonathan Robie wrote:
John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?
That is a silly question!!
The answer is: No. The gen. sg. pres. act .ptc. of βοοῦν (βοόω if you prefer the dubious 1 sg. uncontracted lemma) is βοοῦντος. The phonological rationale: ο + ο contract into ου, whereas α + ο contract into ω.

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 8th, 2016, 11:21 am
by Barry Hofstetter
cwconrad wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:
John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?
That is a silly question!!
The answer is: No. The gen. sg. pres. act .ptc. of βοοῦν (βοόω if you prefer the dubious 1 sg. uncontracted lemma) is βοοῦντος. The phonological rationale: ο + ο contract into ου, whereas α + ο contract into ω.
I thought of it as an entertaining way to ask a morphology question. Carl, of course, is right, but even if the two forms were identical, context would prevent any confusion, just as in English we don't confuse the meanings of run in "James will run the race" and "James will run the business."

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 8th, 2016, 3:27 pm
by cwconrad
cwconrad wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:
John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?
That is a silly question!!
The answer is: No. The gen. sg. pres. act .ptc. of βοοῦν (βοόω if you prefer the dubious 1 sg. uncontracted lemma) is βοοῦντος. The phonological rationale: ο + ο contract into ου, whereas α + ο contract into ω.
I really had meant to write:
That is a silly question!! :D

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 13th, 2016, 1:39 pm
by Robert Crowe
cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 13th, 2016, 5:14 pm
by cwconrad
Robert Crowe wrote:
cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.
I had thought that Hegelian "compromise" was a "sublimation" of "thesis" and "antithesis" to a higher level, but be that as it may, I confess that I have toyed with the thought that βοή might be related somehow to the noun βοὺς, and that it might indeed mean essentially "bellow like a bull". I suppose that's not impossible, but I wonder if it can be proven. On the other hand, there's a proverb cited by the watchman atop the roof of Agamemnon's palace in Aeschylus' Agamemnon 36-7:
τὰ δ’ ἄλλα σιγῶ· βοῦς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ μέγας
37 βέβηκεν·
He would like to shout aloud a warning that it's not safe for Agamemnon to return to this palace and to the queen who lies in wait for him, but "the ox (not the cat) has got his tongue." Here the βοῦς means silence.
Another perspective on βοή is offered by the common verb βοηθεῖν, ordinarily rendered "help" but pretty clearly revealing an etymological link suggesting "come a-running in response to an outcry for help" rather than "come-a-running in response to the bellowing of the bull in the field." At any rate, I don't think there's much mileage in the quest for a link between βοῦς and βοή/βοὰν.

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 14th, 2016, 12:09 am
by Robert Crowe
τὰ δ’ ἄλλα σιγῶ· βοῦς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ μέγας
Tantalising at first sight, given the poet's love of antithesis. But I take your point that it doesn't mean that βοῦς and βοή are related. Pierre Chantraine makes no reference to any relation. He does mention the compound βοηθεῖν as 'to run towards a call (for help)'.

Anyhow, I, for one, am happy to put bellowing bulls to sleep.

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 14th, 2016, 10:10 am
by Barry Hofstetter
Robert Crowe wrote:
cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.
And the one time that it's attested in literature it doesn't seem to mean that at all. LSJ:
βοόω,change into an ox, Eust.70.28.

Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ

Posted: February 14th, 2016, 9:46 pm
by Shirley Rollinson
Robert Crowe wrote:
cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.
If you've ever heard a calf bawling for its mother (and mother cow replying) - that's exactly the sort of hollerin' implied :-)