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Acts 3:2-3 What is the function of ὃς?
Posted: March 31st, 2016, 2:28 pm
by Stephen Hughes
Καί τις ἀνὴρ χωλὸς ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς αὐτοῦ ὑπάρχων ἐβαστάζετο· ὃν ἐτίθουν καθ’ ἡμέραν πρὸς τὴν θύραν τοῦ ἱεροῦ τὴν λεγομένην Ὡραίαν, τοῦ αἰτεῖν ἐλεημοσύνην παρὰ τῶν εἰσπορευομένων εἰς τὸ ἱερόν. 3 Ὃς ἰδὼν Πέτρον καὶ Ἰωάννην μέλλοντας εἰσιέναι εἰς τὸ ἱερόν , ἠρώτα ἐλεημοσύνην
What is the function of the ὃς here? Is it to highlight the parenthetical statement ἰδὼν Πέτρον καὶ Ἰωάννην μέλλοντας εἰσιέναι εἰς τὸ ἱερόν, or to does it follow τις? What is the difference between this and a simple καί?
Re: Acts 3:2-3 What is the function of ὃς?
Posted: March 31st, 2016, 3:42 pm
by cwconrad
Stephen Hughes wrote:Καί τις ἀνὴρ χωλὸς ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς αὐτοῦ ὑπάρχων ἐβαστάζετο· ὃν ἐτίθουν καθ’ ἡμέραν πρὸς τὴν θύραν τοῦ ἱεροῦ τὴν λεγομένην Ὡραίαν, τοῦ αἰτεῖν ἐλεημοσύνην παρὰ τῶν εἰσπορευομένων εἰς τὸ ἱερόν. 3 Ὃς ἰδὼν Πέτρον καὶ Ἰωάννην μέλλοντας εἰσιέναι εἰς τὸ ἱερόν , ἠρώτα ἐλεημοσύνην
What is the function of the ὃς here? Is it to highlight the parenthetical statement ἰδὼν Πέτρον καὶ Ἰωάννην μέλλοντας εἰσιέναι εἰς τὸ ἱερόν, or to does it follow τις? What is the difference between this and a simple καί?
I guess BDAG would see this as the demonstrative pronominal usage, as is SH's epigram (ὅς μὲν ... ὅς δε), but I've often wondered whether this isn't akin to the Latin usage of the relative pronoun
qui at the beginning of a new clause with a simple sense of "And he ... " -- "And when he saw Peter and John enter ... "
Re: Acts 3:2-3 What is the function of ὃς?
Posted: March 31st, 2016, 7:44 pm
by Stephen Hughes
cwconrad wrote:I've often wondered whether this isn't akin to the Latin usage of the relative pronoun qui at the beginning of a new clause with a simple sense of "And he ... " -- "And when he saw Peter and John enter ... "
Was that a feature of Greek too, in earlier Greek, when Latin and Greek were closer IE cousins, or a development in Latin that might have been directly borrowed in the Koine period?
Re: Acts 3:2-3 What is the function of ὃς?
Posted: April 1st, 2016, 5:38 am
by cwconrad
Stephen Hughes wrote:cwconrad wrote:I've often wondered whether this isn't akin to the Latin usage of the relative pronoun qui at the beginning of a new clause with a simple sense of "And he ... " -- "And when he saw Peter and John enter ... "
Was that a feature of Greek too, in earlier Greek, when Latin and Greek were closer IE cousins, or a development in Latin that might have been directly borrowed in the Koine period?
What I've often wondered about is whether in this era, when Greek is being spoken so frequently by Roman administrative types whose native language is Latin, is Latin usage sometimes impacting, or even "contaminating" Greek expression? This usage of ὅς is one item; another is the clause of indirect question in ὁ δὲ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἔχει ποῦ τὴν κεφαλὴν κλίνῃ, where ποῦ means "a place where". For all I know, that may be a Semitism, but I don't recall seeing it in earlier Greek. I'm probably just imagining something here.
Re: Acts 3:2-3 What is the function of ὃς?
Posted: April 1st, 2016, 9:36 am
by Stephen Hughes
Moule has a list of Latinisms near the back of his Idioms , but it is concerned with words and collocation, rather than the effects on syntax.
Re: Acts 3:2-3 What is the function of ὃς?
Posted: April 1st, 2016, 11:42 am
by Barry Hofstetter
cwconrad wrote:Stephen Hughes wrote:cwconrad wrote:I've often wondered whether this isn't akin to the Latin usage of the relative pronoun qui at the beginning of a new clause with a simple sense of "And he ... " -- "And when he saw Peter and John enter ... "
Was that a feature of Greek too, in earlier Greek, when Latin and Greek were closer IE cousins, or a development in Latin that might have been directly borrowed in the Koine period?
What I've often wondered about is whether in this era, when Greek is being spoken so frequently by Roman administrative types whose native language is Latin, is Latin usage sometimes impacting, or even "contaminating" Greek expression? This usage of ὅς is one item; another is the clause of indirect question in ὁ δὲ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἔχει ποῦ τὴν κεφαλὴν κλίνῃ, where ποῦ means "a place where". For all I know, that may be a Semitism, but I don't recall seeing it in earlier Greek. I'm probably just imagining something here.
More than once while reading the GNT I have said to myself "That sounds more like Latin than Greek." But influence of this nature is notoriously hard to prove, particularly since Greek and Latin have a lot of semantic overlap, so that constructions will work in either language, even if better suited to the one than the other. Some time ago I interacted with someone advancing the hypothesis that Mark was originally written in Latin with the Greek text produced simultaneously or shortly afterward. Most of the evidence was fairly easily explained by the use of common loan words and overlapping syntax, but there is sufficient of the latter to make me wonder if the first language of the author might not have been Latin...